Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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As an independent contractor for most of my professional life, I feel for the people that has to work contract to contract. Job security is now something mythical from my grandfather/father's era...

Maybe this is why the GT games still retain this "prestige" image because their product is meticulously crafted by what is essentially a Japanese company within the bigger company (Sony), while Forza Motorsport is just now another corporate product for the pipeline of the Xbox/Game Pass "ecosystem".
But maybe Sony's culture is about to change because the new Playstation boss (Hiroki Totoki) comes from financial and wants to aggressively go multiplatform, and has hinted that their development teams have to think of the bottom line and growth moving forward...

Maybe there is hope for the industry with the recent success of outsider games: Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, Palworld, and Helldivers 2, and I sure hope one racing game from the outside could shake things and break the monopoly that GT/FM have in their respective environments (RIP, Project Cars, could have been you, but you went corporate.)

Just my two cents for the weekend...
Assetto Corsa 2 COULD take it to Forza and GT if it really wanted to but I don't know if it will.
The Youtube algorithm fed me this video last night. Like someone else said, I thought I would post it here, but found today that someone else already had.

This video is made by Adrian Campos. As some of you might remember, I shared a tweet of his earlier in this thread, where he witnessed about how hard the work had been and how sub optimal the work environment is.

It's incredibly sad to hear this. Especially as Adrian seems to be a long time fan of the franchise, who fell in love with Forza back in the 360-era. Just imagine how useful a person like this could've been if he was allowed to stay and become a senior developer. Instead he was kicked out and left disenchanted with T10.

This was the tweet in question:


On a more positive note, it's interesting to hear that Adrian pushed for a few tracks:View attachment 1328920 View attachment 1328921

The Hakone "Mountain" or "Grand" layout is not a new rumour by any means. This sort of track didn't show up at launch for the same reason the full Nurburgring didn't, which gives me reason to believe that it will come in a few months. I'm expecting big things for this "Mountain" layout if it really is a new Fujimi Kaido.
 
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The Hakone "Mountain" or "Grand" layout is not a new rumour by any means. This sort of track didn't show up at launch for the same reason the full Nurburgring didn't, which gives me reason to believe that it will come in a few months. I'm expecting big things for this "Mountain" layout if it really is a new Fujimi Kaido.
No, you're absolutely correct. I've seen that rumour circulating for quite a while. I hope it's not just an urban legend, but seeing how the track layout name "Hakone Mountain" was found in the game files I believe there's some hope. Over at the suggestions hub Fujimi Kaido is also the most requested track by quite some margin.

On the subject of the Nordschleife I found this on Twitter yesterday. Quite an impressive rig!
 
I've never seen someone slide all the way around the Carousel before. That was the highlight of the run at 4'37". Too bad the Lotus overtook him but then it just drove off the track for no reason about a minute later.
 
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Assetto Corsa 2 COULD take it to Forza and GT if it really wanted to but I don't know if it will.
Yes, I'm extremely interested to see what they come up with. ACC with Forza/GT range of cars, range of tracks, class build/tune system could be fantastic. I imagine it won't be a cheap game if you keep up with the DLC at release each time. ACC has been kind of ridiculously expensive in that sense, currently a total of £136.32 for everything at the full list prices. You can get bundles now, but I'm talking about the cost if you buy every element on the day it releases. Mind you, FH5 is getting similar to that with all the car packs.

No, you're absolutely correct. I've seen that rumour circulating for quite a while. I hope it's not just an urban legend, but seeing how the track layout name "Hakone Mountain" was found in the game files I believe there's some hope. Over at the suggestions hub Fujimi Kaido is also the most requested track by quite some margin.
One thing that hurts me with Hakone is how they've made it a Tilke-type environment like CotA and Yas Marina, with those big coloured run-off areas. I feel like we have enough real-world tracks that we don't need the fictional tracks to be like the real-world tracks to that extent. I personally prefer GT's approach to the fictional tracks where they've created tracks that couldn't be safely raced on in real-life, like Tokyo and Sardegna, but as a result they provide a completely different experience to the real-world tracks. The Hakone environment outside the track is up there with the fictitious tracks in GT, but all that expanse of flat coloured run-off areas really kills it for me.

I've even wondered if it might be a good idea for them to bring some classic FH series tracks into FM. There wouldn't be much work needed on creating the models and assets and they'd provide something genuinely different.
 
Something very odd happened in the A open class in the Maple Valley race. During night practice on the last lap, after you come under the bridge and start that uphill section towards the finish line, my headlights went out. Everything was pitch black. I did slow down and make the finish but in that end sequence when you finish practice and your car kind of slides into it's pit box, the headlights were on as it approached the box but as it was sliding in they went out again. I've never had the headlights cut out before.

Also that reward Porsche race car is a lot of fun to run the Ring with. Except I got blocked very badly by a BMW & a Ferrari F40 and didn't stand a chance to win that race. I might have to run that one again to get my revenge.
 
Something very odd happened in the A open class in the Maple Valley race. During night practice on the last lap, after you come under the bridge and start that uphill section towards the finish line, my headlights went out. Everything was pitch black. I did slow down and make the finish but in that end sequence when you finish practice and your car kind of slides into it's pit box, the headlights were on as it approached the box but as it was sliding in they went out again. I've never had the headlights cut out before.
The game's realism is pretty amazing actually, simulating buying a scuffed vehicle from a suspicious used dealership.
 
Something very odd happened in the A open class in the Maple Valley race. During night practice on the last lap, after you come under the bridge and start that uphill section towards the finish line, my headlights went out. Everything was pitch black. I did slow down and make the finish but in that end sequence when you finish practice and your car kind of slides into it's pit box, the headlights were on as it approached the box but as it was sliding in they went out again. I've never had the headlights cut out before.

Also that reward Porsche race car is a lot of fun to run the Ring with. Except I got blocked very badly by a BMW & a Ferrari F40 and didn't stand a chance to win that race. I might have to run that one again to get my revenge.
Same thing happened to me.
 
While trying to take photos I've encountered an extremely annoying bug: whenever you change settings like brightness or anything really, the camera moves slightly. Even just refocusing moves it slightly too, it just makes taking photos that much more annoying. Also, is there a way to remove the logo?
 
While trying to take photos I've encountered an extremely annoying bug: whenever you change settings like brightness or anything really, the camera moves slightly. Even just refocusing moves it slightly too, it just makes taking photos that much more annoying. Also, is there a way to remove the logo?
Yup, its really anoying. As a long time digital and real life photographer the photomode needs a huge overhaul like the one in FH5. Its soo basic and average and has too many stupid rendering bugs. There is also the anoying RT reflections bug that gets caused by the dof. Whenever you apply dof, the RT reflections on the car gets also blurred with the same intensity as the dof for the background even for the cars self reflections in the focused area. Also the SSR of the cars are getting blurred with the motion blur and shutter speed on puddles which should not be happining since it should be like a mirror. And the game applies a soft TAA in photomode when you render the photo which makes everything look super soft. And the bokeh is not as high quality as FH5 or GT7, the roll off is just not right.
 
Also, is there a way to remove the logo?
No, but you can move the logo (which thankfully doesn't cause the camera to move around!) by pressing RB. So you can hide the UI, take a screenshot, move the logo, repeat, and then combine the pictures with a photo-editing app like Photoshop or GIMP.
 
No, but you can move the logo (which thankfully doesn't cause the camera to move around!) by pressing RB. So you can hide the UI, take a screenshot, move the logo, repeat, and then combine the pictures with a photo-editing app like Photoshop or GIMP.
And thankfully the AI in Photoshop is a lot better than in FM, so you can easily remove the logo.
cat boss GIF
 
No, you're absolutely correct. I've seen that rumour circulating for quite a while. I hope it's not just an urban legend, but seeing how the track layout name "Hakone Mountain" was found in the game files I believe there's some hope. Over at the suggestions hub Fujimi Kaido is also the most requested track by quite some margin.

On the subject of the Nordschleife I found this on Twitter yesterday. Quite an impressive rig!

This makes me want to push my monitors further away, change the angle and reset every sim, so I can have a large sense of scale like PSR is getting in his videos. Great stuff!

This is pretty much what I see, except with the graphics turned from 11, down to 6. For now I am running in potato mode, due to limited hardware (CPU). One day I'll upgrade, but for now I got to make the most of what I got.


The Nordschleife in FM, while not the most accurate version is one of the more fun experiences. I find it easier to drive than on some of the more simulation focused titles (AC, rF2, AMS2... Etc.). It's not a horrible version of the track, and IMO it could be massaged into a better shape. Hopefully turn 10 would give it and other tracks some retouches. Fix the glaring issues and prove this is an actual live service game. But I doubt they'll do such a thing.
 
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To be fair, that's also due to the improved road car physics in FM23 compared to earlier motorsport games. There are so many relatively tight corners which used to trigger lift off oversteer in FM7 and so many curbs which previous Forzas were also poor at dealing with.
 
Well, this version of the Nordschleife is the only one in all the Forza Motorsport games (and PC 2-3, GT6 too) that has engaged me this much, not 4, 5, 6 or 7, this.

Honestly, I don't care if tOO mAny TREes, or tOO MUch LIght, or THe GraFFiTTi in turn 5,891 is WRong!!!
Absolutely agree. Theres been a bunch of videos on YT I saw which are ridiculous and some people on here that are extremely nitpicky its not even funny. Ive played every single FM and the project cars series and this version of the Nurb is the best I've ever played on. I really dont understand the extreme criticism of this track to me its nearly flawless. I mean the way I see it if you want the real thing then take a flight to Germany, rent a car and drive on it yourself.
 
Absolutely agree. Theres been a bunch of videos on YT I saw which are ridiculous and some people on here that are extremely nitpicky its not even funny. Ive played every single FM and the project cars series and this version of the Nurb is the best I've ever played on. I really dont understand the extreme criticism of this track to me its nearly flawless. I mean the way I see it if you want the real thing then take a flight to Germany, rent a car and drive on it yourself.
Assetto Corsa's is my favourite still but I enjoy the FM one. Some kerbs are weird but it really captures the feeling of the nurburgring to me
 
To be fair, that's also due to the improved road car physics in FM23 compared to earlier motorsport games. There are so many relatively tight corners which used to trigger lift off oversteer in FM7 and so many curbs which previous Forzas were also poor at dealing with.
This is kinda what I expected after even the dreaded Yas Marina wasn't as frustrating to drive as previous versions. The readded tracks may not be built from the ground up but the feels and funky flow are definitely improved for me.

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Since Update 5, I've noticed Turn10 have "fixed" the workaround for getting higher than 60fps in multiplayer, before the patch if you had a refresh rate that was not divisible by 60, then it would simply half your refresh rate, what that meant was for someone like myself with a 165hz display, I would get capped to about 82fps in multiplayer.

To fix this, Turn 10 seems to simply divide your refresh rate by 3 in scenario's where your refresh rate is not divisible by 60, which is why I see many folks are complaining now that their fps is being capped to 55fps. I've tested a few refresh rates, and sure enough, I even managed to get as low as 42fps by setting my refresh rate to 125fps. It's a bit of a hammer fix approach, and while I disagree that having a higher refresh rate gives any advantage, I understand why they've "fixed" the workaround.

In game, if you do lock your fps to 60, the above logic doesn't apply, so instead of unlocking my fps, I've locked myself to 60fps, and am using AMD's Fluid Motion Frames feature to double it to 120fps, I know it's not real frames, but it smooths out the gameplay with minimal artifacts that I'm happy leaving it like this for now.

It does raise an interesting problem for Turn10, presumably they will be looking into implementing FSR3 in the future, to give you proper frame generation with motion vectors in game, after testing this out in Starfield yesterday, I'm really impressed, I had already setup Starfield to get between 65-80fps in most scenario's, so enabling FSR3 pretty much took my fps to 150+ and I didn't see any ill-effects.

So Turn10 will have to make a decision, if they implement Frame Generation in game, will they continue to lock fps to 60 in multiplayer, or will they let the game create the first 60 frames, and let the FSR implementation generate the extra frames effectively doubling your fps in multiplayer. It would be incredibly disappointing to see them enable frame generation and then lock to 60fps, sure it would let many of us to bump up settings and maybe enable RT when not already enabled, but when an alternative already exists to get 120fps with a few motion artifacts, it would be a tough sacrifice to enable it in-game.
 
Since Update 5, I've noticed Turn10 have "fixed" the workaround for getting higher than 60fps in multiplayer, before the patch if you had a refresh rate that was not divisible by 60, then it would simply half your refresh rate, what that meant was for someone like myself with a 165hz display, I would get capped to about 82fps in multiplayer.

To fix this, Turn 10 seems to simply divide your refresh rate by 3 in scenario's where your refresh rate is not divisible by 60, which is why I see many folks are complaining now that their fps is being capped to 55fps. I've tested a few refresh rates, and sure enough, I even managed to get as low as 42fps by setting my refresh rate to 125fps. It's a bit of a hammer fix approach, and while I disagree that having a higher refresh rate gives any advantage, I understand why they've "fixed" the workaround.

In game, if you do lock your fps to 60, the above logic doesn't apply, so instead of unlocking my fps, I've locked myself to 60fps, and am using AMD's Fluid Motion Frames feature to double it to 120fps, I know it's not real frames, but it smooths out the gameplay with minimal artifacts that I'm happy leaving it like this for now.

It does raise an interesting problem for Turn10, presumably they will be looking into implementing FSR3 in the future, to give you proper frame generation with motion vectors in game, after testing this out in Starfield yesterday, I'm really impressed, I had already setup Starfield to get between 65-80fps in most scenario's, so enabling FSR3 pretty much took my fps to 150+ and I didn't see any ill-effects.

So Turn10 will have to make a decision, if they implement Frame Generation in game, will they continue to lock fps to 60 in multiplayer, or will they let the game create the first 60 frames, and let the FSR implementation generate the extra frames effectively doubling your fps in multiplayer. It would be incredibly disappointing to see them enable frame generation and then lock to 60fps, sure it would let many of us to bump up settings and maybe enable RT when not already enabled, but when an alternative already exists to get 120fps with a few motion artifacts, it would be a tough sacrifice to enable it in-game.
Yeah, I had the same problem on my 165Hz screen, mentioned a few pages ago. When I had it set to "60 fps vsync" it dropped from 82fps limit to 55fps limit suddenly after the patch...

However for me using "unlocked vsync" removed the 55fps limiter just fine. The game seems smooth and runs fine at around 80fps which is my compromise for visuals versus frames.
 
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I disagree that having a higher refresh rate gives any advantage
The reduced input lag is definitely noticeable, but seriously, are there any other competitive multiplayer games that limit framerate? 4k will give an advantage over 1080p. A 3rd party controller can give an advantage over a standard Xbox controller. An OLED screen can give better motion clarity than an IPS screen. I haven't tried a wheel in FM23, but there's no doubt that a wheel and pedals and good seat rig can give an advantage in some driving games. Spending more time practicing rather than working and earning money will give an advantage. There are many ways people can spend money to get some degree of advantage, so I'm not sure why they are so keen to single out framerate. I doubt if Xbox Series X players would be happy if their resolution were limited to 1080p in multiplayer to match that of PC players who are playing in 1080p, so why should PC players who like to play at higher framerate have a worse gameplay experience forced on them to match consoles.
 
The reduced input lag is definitely noticeable, but seriously, are there any other competitive multiplayer games that limit framerate? 4k will give an advantage over 1080p. A 3rd party controller can give an advantage over a standard Xbox controller. An OLED screen can give better motion clarity than an IPS screen. I haven't tried a wheel in FM23, but there's no doubt that a wheel and pedals and good seat rig can give an advantage in some driving games. Spending more time practicing rather than working and earning money will give an advantage. There are many ways people can spend money to get some degree of advantage, so I'm not sure why they are so keen to single out framerate. I doubt if Xbox Series X players would be happy if their resolution were limited to 1080p in multiplayer to match that of PC players who are playing in 1080p, so why should PC players who like to play at higher framerate have a worse gameplay experience forced on them to match consoles.
The only rumor I've seen mentioned is that the whole framerate debacle isn't more so about an outright gainable advantage, but more so that it will literally net you faster laps without an ounce of change. Something to do with the internal clock of the game maybe? An Xbox can use all those other advantages you mention, but not the one that's supposedly the issue. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but just pointing out what seems like a different scenario to me, compared to what I've read/seen.

It's a situation that definitely exists in other games to some capacity. There's been tests in Destiny 2 that had people using the same exact instakill moves, one at the capped console frame rate and one uncapped or doubled, and the uncapped player always survived the encounter for whatever reason.
 
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The only rumor I've seen mentioned is that the whole framerate debacle isn't more so about an outright gainable advantage, but more so that it will literally net you faster laps without an ounce of change. Something to do with the internal clock of the game maybe? An Xbox can use all those other advantages you mention, but not the one that's supposedly the issue. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but just pointing out what seems like a different scenario to me, compared to what I've read/seen.

It's a situation that definitely exists in other games to some capacity. There's been tests in Destiny 2 that had people using the same exact instakill moves, one at the capped console frame rate and one uncapped or doubled, and the uncapped player always survived the encounter for whatever reason.

This may have been an issue on some past games, but given the way they have tried to limit frame rate in this game suggests that is no longer the case, the only possibility is maybe there is some internal clock doing some calculations for MP purposes that depends on a consistent framerate, but I doubt it, given that until the most recent patch, much of the PC community could have been running above 60fps (165hz is a pretty common refresh rate), and I certainly haven't noticed any advantage. Also, rivals is not limited to 60fps, so unless it's some MP specific calculations that are affecting your pace on the track, I think we can probably debunk this one.
 
A hundred pages or so we discussed the 60fps limiter in more detail. Apparently the netcode in FH4/FH5 struggled with high FPS PC players and effectively gave them an advantage over Xbox players, so this was likely a countermeasure.

Back to the game itself: That new reward 911 RSR in the showcase race around Nurburgring 24h layout was really fun. A very nice car to drive even stock, highly recommended.
 
Absolutely agree. Theres been a bunch of videos on YT I saw which are ridiculous and some people on here that are extremely nitpicky its not even funny. Ive played every single FM and the project cars series and this version of the Nurb is the best I've ever played on. I really dont understand the extreme criticism of this track to me its nearly flawless. I mean the way I see it if you want the real thing then take a flight to Germany, rent a car and drive on it yourself.
I watched one a day or so after the update and the person was going around the Ring and stopping to point out differences between Forza and a real life in car camera and he was saying things like, "see this curb over here is slightly too high", or "these stones on the right side shouldn't be there" etc. etc. Just overall very nit picky about it. The only point I kind of agree with him on is the 2nd Carousel where there is a little too much asphalt between the inside left curb and the concrete patch but that's minor in the overall presentation of the track.

Assetto Corsa's is my favourite still but I enjoy the FM one. Some kerbs are weird but it really captures the feeling of the nurburgring to me
Last night I drove the Ring in AC in a road car just too see if there was anything glaring between the two versions that would kill the experience in Forza and to me there really wasn't anything that stood out.
 
This may have been an issue on some past games, but given the way they have tried to limit frame rate in this game suggests that is no longer the case, the only possibility is maybe there is some internal clock doing some calculations for MP purposes that depends on a consistent framerate, but I doubt it, given that until the most recent patch, much of the PC community could have been running above 60fps (165hz is a pretty common refresh rate), and I certainly haven't noticed any advantage. Also, rivals is not limited to 60fps, so unless it's some MP specific calculations that are affecting your pace on the track, I think we can probably debunk this one.
Whatever the case, advantages due to lower/higher framerates definitely exist in other games like I mentioned, so I could imagine what is being said has some sort of backing at the very least and likely not debunked at all. You're right that it definitely cropped up in old games, FH5 to be specific. What we dont know is if its affecting the current game as they took a step to nip it before anyone has to a chance to analyze. Still, how significant of an advantage is it that they'd be willing to stiff arm a portion of their playerbase?
 
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