Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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Beezer215
The way the cars drive in the rain in FM is a lot more believable and closer to real life than in GT7. I'm sorry but you can't just continue to drive balls out when it starts raining on slicks and be safe. That's actually the MOST dangerous time to be out, when it starts raining. And then all the sudden in GT7 you get enough rain and it's just worse than frozen black ice. That's just wild.
FM gives you that ability to drive the car, and on the edge, a slip angle in which you can still push the car but every slide isn't a spin out. Really nicely done actually and very close in line to actual sims. In real life, if you've ever pushed a car either on track or even on a main road, you'll find that there's more understeer straight push than anything.
Why does GT7 also only have weather and time of day on a handful of tracks too? Did they even add that to all of them? That's weird. I'll personally take the weather sequences available on all tracks in game than only a few. Let's face it, when it rains, it usually rains on the whole track. Places like Nords are an exception due to the sheer size.
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Fm doesn’t even have a dry line vs wet line when it comes to rain racing and the wet physics in FM are very basic… it not even close when it comes to driving in the rain vs GT7. in GT7 you can be on slicks and part of the track can be dry enough for the slicks however because the weather is actually different all around the track depending where you are it can be completely wet on another part. The rain race I had at Suzuka is perfect example.. I jumped 5+ grid positions in a ManuCup race for not pitting and guiding the slicks through the wet part of spoon curve before putting on IM tires.

In FM there is no track evolution when it comes to wet racing… the whole track is either wet or dry… it’s scripted weather that’s why they have weather on all tracks… I rather have real weather that actually makes a difference when it comes to racing even if it’s not on all the tracks.
 
JDMKING13
In FM there is no track evolution when it comes to wet racing… the whole track is either wet or dry… it’s scripted weather that’s why they have weather on all tracks… I rather have real weather that actually makes a difference when it comes to racing even if it’s not on all the tracks.
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Yeah this is just wrong. You can even pick weather scenarios where the rain increases or decreases and you get a significant change in grip levels/laptimes/visual effects accordingly.

Seriously, go try it.
 
ShavedBadger
Yeah this is just wrong. You can even pick weather scenarios where the rain increases or decreases and you get a significant change in grip levels/laptimes/visual effects accordingly.

Seriously, go try it.
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I have tried it man… The rain in FM is no different what we had in GT Sport… yes it affects the driving but it very basic… when racing in the rain do you have to use the wet line to to be faster around the track?
 
JDMKING13
I have tried it man… The rain in FM is no different what we had in GT Sport… yes it affects the driving but it very basic… when racing in the rain do you have to use the wet line to to be faster around the track?
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It depends - after a while though you do notice a very obvious dry line appearing where the majority of cars tend to run and there is more grip there. Especially if the rain is decreasing. Perhaps it isn't as obvious if you've got the racing line/track edges assists stuff turned on (I don't know how people can stand those either, way too bright and distracting).

To say that the track conditions don't evolve though is absolute crap.
 
ShavedBadger
It depends - after a while though you do notice a very obvious dry line appearing where the majority of cars tend to run and there is more grip there. Especially if the rain is decreasing. Perhaps it isn't as obvious if you've got the racing line/track edges assists stuff turned on (I don't know how people can stand those either, way too bright and distracting).

To say that the track conditions don't evolve though is absolute crap.
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So you’re telling me If I make a rain race in FM for one race…. Then start that same race over the rain is going to be in different spots of the track? FM doesn’t have a weather system where you get different rainfall coming from different spots of the track… It’s the same weather every time (Preset weather)… yea it can rain hard or even monsoon… however it will still always look the same once you start the race over…
 
VXR
Gran Turismo 7 makes driving in the rain at 50mph feel like you're dicing with death in a road car, it's absolutely ridiculous.
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What DR are you? I am not the fastest but 50 in a road car even with Sport tires is easy money… I have a 370Z with Sport tires in the wet I can spin the car easy as hell especially with TCS off… I feel like GT has to much grip with S tires IMO.
 
JDMKING13
What DR are you? I am not the fastest but 50 in a road car even with Sport tires is easy money… I have a 370Z with Sport tires in the wet I can spin the car easy as hell especially with TCS off… I feel like GT has to much grip with S tires IMO.
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I can drive at 70 in the rain and not aquaplane at the first sight of standing water, I can take corners in the wet and not face terminal understeer. GT's wet physics are an absolute joke.
 
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VXR
I can drive at 70 in the rain and not aquaplane at the first sight of standing water, I can take corners in the wet and not face terminal understeer. GT's wet physics are an absolute joke.
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On Semi-slick tires? Ok man sure…
 
JDMKING13
yea it can rain hard or even monsoon… however it will still always look the same once you start the race over…
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Ok. Wrong, but whatever.

JDMKING13
On Semi-slick tires? Ok man sure…
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Have you ever driven on semi-slick tyres in the wet? Like, for realsies? Because I have (hillclimbs, trackdays, and on public roads going to/from events in a modded Mitsubishi Evo on Toyo R888 tyres) and it's not knife-edge at all. I haven't played a Gran Turismo game since 6 but if that's how PD is portraying it with their games these days then it isn't even remotely realistic.
 
ShavedBadger
Ok. Wrong, but whatever.


Have you ever driven on semi-slick tyres in the wet? Like, for realsies? Because I have (hillclimbs, trackdays, and on public roads going to/from events in a modded Mitsubishi Evo on Toyo R888 tyres) and it's not knife-edge at all. I haven't played a Gran Turismo game since 6 but if that's how PD is portraying it with their games these days then it isn't even remotely realistic.
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Ok Wrong? Wait you’re telling me FM has Dynamic weather now?

You haven’t played GT7 and didn’t even play GT sport??? So how valid is your argument? You are agree with me… Driving in the wet in GT7 is challenging but not impossible like others mentioned… seems to be a skill issue for someone going off you can’t drive 50MPH in the rain… how did we all compete at the RBR in the pouring rain during the Manufacturing Cup?

When PMR dropped it was a known issue where the Hypercars weren’t usable until they patched it… This is nowhere near the case for Driving in the rain in GT7…
 
JDMKING13
Ok Wrong? Wait you’re telling me FM has Dynamic weather now?

You haven’t played GT7 and didn’t even play GT sport??? So how valid is your argument? You are agree with me… Driving in the wet in GT7 is challenging but not impossible like others mentioned… seems to be a skill issue for someone going off you can’t drive 50MPH in the rain… how did we all compete at the RBR in the pouring rain during the Manufacturing Cup?

When PMR dropped it was a known issue where the Hypercars weren’t usable until they patched it… This is nowhere near the case for Driving in the rain in GT7…
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FM has weather that can change over the duration of a race. This affects the visuals, the grip levels and the laptimes accordingly. To say that it "will still always look the same once you start the race over…" is wrong.

The rest of your breathless, nonsensical, self-contradictory hyperventilating I won't even bother responding to.
 
r_outsider
Clearly GT7 is the realest driving simulator ever, even more real than actual real cars, and everybody should just play it. Got it.
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Wait what? Please let’s act as grown folks and not children.. please explain what you wrote has anything to do with the conversation? Please show me where I wrote anything dealing with what you’re talking about?

Then I have someone who hasn’t played GT since GT6 or GT7 telling me how the weather system is ok bet.
 
My experience with rain in this game is somewhat mixed. I do agree that visually I find it very convincing, but I do find it hard to notice any sort of track evolution with what I've run so far. I think one reason for that is most of my rain experience in the game is with preset races in career mode or featured multiplayer, and it seems they tend to just hold one weather preset for the entire session and not much seems to change with regards to things like dry lines as you see them in gt7.

I would be curious to try in custom race doing some longer 1-2 hour races and trying the progressive weather settings to do some dry-wet, dry-wet-dry, or even wet-dry-wet to see if I can notice anything changing with track conditions and be able to anticipate the correct time to change to wet tires. I find with the preset races and lobbies I only use wets when the game puts them on by default in the fuel and tire menu pre race when the weather is already wet.
 
notarjy
My experience with rain in this game is somewhat mixed. I do agree that visually I find it very convincing, but I do find it hard to notice any sort of track evolution with what I've run so far. I think one reason for that is most of my rain experience in the game is with preset races in career mode or featured multiplayer, and it seems they tend to just hold one weather preset for the entire session and not much seems to change with regards to things like dry lines as you see them in gt7.

I would be curious to try in custom race doing some longer 1-2 hour races and trying the progressive weather settings to do some dry-wet, dry-wet-dry, or even wet-dry-wet to see if I can notice anything changing with track conditions and be able to anticipate the correct time to change to wet tires. I find with the preset races and lobbies I only use wets when the game puts them on by default in the fuel and tire menu pre race when the weather is already wet.
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Last time my group tried to do custom weather I think the problem was the slots it didn’t allow you to do that many different weather combinations… I haven’t played it in a while so I don’t know if it change but I remember we were bummed out.
 
Yeah from what I recall you can basically set a start middle and end presets, but so far I've only experimented with things like going from overcast to clear sky and things like that. Which I end up not even paying attention to during the race usually.
 
Well, on the subject of rain I just did an unscientific test: A custom 8-lap race at Suzuka East at evening aboard the Supra 98, with heavy rain at the start, and dry condition at the end on GT, and light drizzle on Forza (no dry condition is available for the end of the race).

Visually, Forza is more dramatic with more lights on track, mist and droplets visible on camera if you use the chase cam; there is even fogging in the cockpit view. The AI cars do leave a slightly thicker wake than the cars in GT and are also way faster (difficulty at 7) but more prone to make errors and go off-track, mainly in the first turn.

As the race goes on and the rain starts to subside, a dry line begins to form, and the effect is more visible in GT with puddles forming to the sides, and those puddles can affect you. In Forza the dry line is there but is much more subtle because the rain doesn't really stop.

I had more grip with the wet tires in Forza throughout the race, even when they were cold. GT driving was more slippery with less braking power, especially in the first turn, but I got more traction as the dry line formed. I used traction control in both (sport in FM, 1 on GT).

The rain sound mix is far better in GT, because their 3D sound solution is just superior. The sound mix in Forza sounds very flat in cockpit view (although I have theorized this is due to wearing a helmet and earplugs (!)) and gets slightly better with the bumper/hood/chase cam views.

I did not notice framerate drops in either game, but I have GT on a 1440p monitor so, less pixels to push @ 60 fps (83 fps in Forza on my PC).

It is really just a small unrepresentative sample, and I like both approaches, and again they both are probably far easier than the real thing.
 
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I just did a little test myself - set a short timed race at Mt Panorama in the HSV Maloo (kinda obliged to given my nationality). 6 minutes, one other car, rain at the end.

Over the course of the three laps (only completed 2.5), the weather got noticeably darker before the rain started toward the end of the first lap, then the grip became naturally and progressively worse, and by the time I got to Skyline on the second lap I was really having to be careful about applying the throttle, and I nearly understeered off the road going down through the Esses despite being quite a bit slower than lap one. Then on the final lap going up Mountain Straight I had a big burst of wheelspin as the car got light going over the crest - not an issue on the previous laps. And by the end the visibility was really becoming an issue, especially in places like the entry to Turn two - it was really difficult to pick the braking and turn-in points.

Not a hugely in-depth test but still, the track evolution is definitely there.
 
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Nacho Libre
Well, on the subject of rain I just did an unscientific test: A custom 8-lap race at Suzuka East at evening aboard the Supra 98, with heavy rain at the start, and dry condition at the end on GT, and light drizzle on Forza (no dry condition is available for the end of the race).

Visually, Forza is more dramatic with more lights on track, mist and droplets visible on camera if you use the chase cam; there is even fogging in the cockpit view. The AI cars do leave a slightly thicker wake than the cars in GT and are also way faster (difficulty at 7) but more prone to make errors and go off-track, mainly in the first turn.

As the race goes on and the rain starts to subside, a dry line begins to form, and the effect is more visible in GT with puddles forming to the sides, and those puddles can affect you. In Forza the dry line is there but is much more subtle because the rain doesn't really stop.

I had more grip with the wet tires in Forza throughout the race, even when they were cold. GT driving was more slippery with less braking power, especially in the first turn, but I got more traction as the dry line formed. I used traction control in both (sport in FM, 1 on GT).

The rain sound mix is far better in GT, because their 3D sound solution is just superior. The sound mix in Forza sounds very flat in cockpit view (although I have theorized this is due to wearing a helmet and earplugs (!)) and gets slightly better with the bumper/hood/chase cam views.

I did not notice framerate drops in either game, but I have GT on a 1440p monitor so, less pixels to push @ 60 fps (83 fps in Forza on my PC).

It is really just a small unrepresentative sample, and I like both approaches, and again they both are probably far easier than the real thing.
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My problem with FM is pretty much what you stated… The weather option are just not there… in GT7 it can rain one lap stop on another… then pick up again and stop… I’ve seen it all. You simply can’t mimic this is FM we’ve tried it. Another dynamic GT7 has is the wet line which is different from taking the normal dry line. Once it gets wet you are faster if you take the wet line vs the standard dry line. It was a huge advantage in the RBR ManuCup race this year to try to master it. I was practicing with top slit guys and he was doing us bad.. I am an A+ driver and he was gapping me 2 sec per lap.. once he explain it, it helped me big time to become faster in the wet.
 
Sometimes I love me a good raining thunderstorm or downpour in FM2023.

Also, random thing, if you let the AI drive for you for a certain while, the game is going to give you the YouTube treatment: They'll ask you to press a button to continue by saying "Are you still there?"

Yeah. The 10 clean laps challenge hub event at Bathurst is... quite something tough for me since I'm not very good. This is the only super-rare situation where I auto-drive though. My under-stress perfomances are abysmal and I got apprehension problems. How bad? To the point where sometimes I get worried for nothing.
 
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Johnny Caisse
Sometimes I love me a good raining thunderstorm or downpour in FM2023.

Also, random thing, if you let the AI drive for you for a certain while, the game is going to give you the YouTube treatment: They'll ask you to press a button to continue by saying "Are you still there?"

Yeah. The 10 clean laps challenge hub event at Bathurst is... quite something tough for me since I'm not very good. This is the only super-rare situation where I auto-drive though. My under-stress perfomances are abysmal and I got apprehension problems. How bad? To the point where sometimes I get worried for nothing.
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Try out the Ginetta Junior for that kinda stuff. It can make the straightaways seem a little long, but it's a fun little car and because it's so small and slow, it's perfect for those kinds of things.

It's also a fantastic race car, good for learning about tactical racing and learning new circuits, plus it's adorable and looks super good with cute little throwback liveries and GT car replica liveries. Overall, 10/10 car.
 
Morbid65
Try out the Ginetta Junior for that kinda stuff. It can make the straightaways seem a little long, but it's a fun little car and because it's so small and slow, it's perfect for those kinds of things.

It's also a fantastic race car, good for learning about tactical racing and learning new circuits, plus it's adorable and looks super good with cute little throwback liveries and GT car replica liveries. Overall, 10/10 car.
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Unfortunately it requires the 10 clean laps at Bathurst to be done with an Australian car. Otherwise I would've done that. Got a super cute design for it.
 
Johnny Caisse
Sometimes I love me a good raining thunderstorm or downpour in FM2023.

Also, random thing, if you let the AI drive for you for a certain while, the game is going to give you the YouTube treatment: They'll ask you to press a button to continue by saying "Are you still there?"

Yeah. The 10 clean laps challenge hub event at Bathurst is... quite something tough for me since I'm not very good. This is the only super-rare situation where I auto-drive though. My under-stress perfomances are abysmal and I got apprehension problems. How bad? To the point where sometimes I get worried for nothing.
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From what I understand, the challenge doesn't require 10 laps from one session. You can have a few clean laps here, a few clean laps there and still get the reward because it's cumulative. Also, from my past attempts at cheesing some of the challenges, running free play test laps count. If you wanted to, you could drive a 10-lap sight-seeing tour and get the challenge reward. A while ago there was a 3-lap challenge at the Fujimi Kaido, I forget the car. I took the required car into a test and tuning session and just drove the laps at my leisure. It saved a ton of frustration and was an easy credit boost, IMO.
 
I took a little break but I have been thinking about jumping back into the game to live some 80s/90s imsa dreams in custom race, really love the variety in the gtx and gtp/c classes in this game and really appreciate having sebring lime rock and road america in the mix, I really feel their absence in gt7. I do remember last time I tried to set up a multi class 2 hours of daytona in this game I ran into some issues with doing a timed race that long but I think some more experimenting will make it work. Just have to work around not being able to adjust the fuel burn rate.
 
The way I do my races is that I set up everything as a timed race first. Then, in the pre-race menu, I look at the fuel and tire section to see how many laps the whole thing would take (sometimes it is hard to see if it's a long race). I then change the race type to Laps and enter the number of laps based on what the fuel map said.
 

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