Forza will whoop GT4's a$$ escpecially online........

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http://xbox.ign.com/articles/536/536945p3.html

"AI expert, someone who had never worked on a game before. This AI expert never had a hint as to the rocket-sled mentality of AI's past, so had no idea of what was the norm for a video game racer. Instead, he went about creating a learning AI which he named Drivatar.
This learning AI watches you race and learns from you and can mimic you. He can improve on you as well. You can use this technology to train your own racing team to race just like you, but the applications go much further than this. The Forza team sets up several Xboxes each night and lets them race. The Drivatar AI learns from them every time. It's not just learning the tendencies on a general level, but for every car and track and with every modification. How does this one drive in a Civic Type R with modifications X, Y, and Z handle this one specific turn in Laguna Seca on the third lap? Yes it's that exact. If you brake late and spin out, the AI learns from this and is smart enough to make adjustments based on your failure. Every night Drivatar is learning, becoming smarter and better with every car on every track in every condition so that it can make smart real-time "human" decisions in a race."


All the tools you could hope for are included. There's a stamp so you can easily recreate patterns and you can even clone your entire skin and swap with your buddies to create your own legion of pink poodle Porches. Imagine rollin' your pack of wild pink Porches down the wide roads of Xbox Live, striking terror into the hearts of weaker racers across the 'net.


"Part of the process involves choosing a region -- USA, Europe, or Asia. You don't have to pick a region you're from, but you can only pick one and that's where you are from, for the rest of your use with that profile. This is a big, big deal in the world of Forza because your region dictates what parts and cars are readily available. Whaaaaa?!? Yeah, a Chevy is commonplace in the US, but good luck buying on in Asia.
Every car and part has a rarity rating based on your region. If something is rare, it's going to cost you more. It may not even be available to you at all. How do you fix this? By trading cars and parts with people who's profiles are from other regions where those things aren't rare. You can do this online or offline (with a memory card save). Think of it like Pokemon Blue and Red. Crazy, huh?

The purpose for this is to help create a massive virtual racing community. Not only will every gamer have a unique car, but they're gonna be swapping cars and parts like six-graders swap spit at summer camp."


holy crap......... if i happen to find a cheap XBOX i might get this game
 
The AI system looks good IN THEORY. I think it is too complex to be handled by the XBox. It'll either be too subtle or too influential to the driving style.

As to that region thing? :yuck: 👎 So stupid. What if you want a car from another reigon and don't have XBox live? 👎
 
Threads like this are not needed here, yes Forza sounds promising, but GT has proven it is good, and as long as the AI is sorted which KY said has been done (note he's never claimed past GT's have got better AI but he has said he wants to include it, but for GT4 he's actually said improved AI is in), for GT to become as good a racing game as it is a driving game. Also how can you say Forza will be better online when you don't have the foggiest what GT4 will be like online. Wait for both games to come out before saying which of the twio will be better, personally I think Forza sounds and looks exellent but I think GT4 will be the better game overall.
 
Event Horizon
As to that region thing? :yuck: 👎 So stupid. What if you want a car from another reigon and don't have XBox live? 👎
You start another game from a different region and play that until you get the car you wanted in the first game then trade from one save to the other. I personally like that idea, but I don't think Forza will have enough cars overall to make it a really influential part of the game.
 
how good will the simulation be? having that great AI driver is gonna be crap if the handling is all "arcade-y."
 
It's very good apparently, Forza is pulling all the stops to make it feel as realistic as possible, it has driver aids which can be switched on r off to help the less experienced sim players. The Forza team also has some people from Ferrari who are helping make the cars handle correctly, my only concern with this is that the Ferrari's (Enzo in particular) could end up being better in the game than they are in real life although it's not likely that will happen, but the game is a true sim from what I've read althoguh it lacks force feedback and support of a decent wheel.
 
It sounds good, on paper. The red sox are good, on paper. The colts should have won the super bowl, on paper. The lakers had the better team, on paper. My point? It aint over till it's over.
 
You can say the same about GT4, we have to wait and see until BOTH are released.
 
Yeah good Ai, so what. Most likely it's gonna get people pissed after a while trying to beat that mini cooper in your ferrari. Seeking perfection isn't always good
 
Try telling KY that. He's seeking perfection. What now?!?!??! :lol: j/p
 
If he is a true seeker of perfection (which he is) i don't think hes gonna go with that impossible to beat AI. He's gonna have a balance of both good driving and mistakes
 
I could careless even if a game surpasses GT4 is graphics.

But comparing two games on two different systems is not completly fair.

GT4 has a reputation.

Forza don't.

Xbox has a reputation to suckinating at extremes.

Playstation 2 does not.


Why do ya'll even care? They are games for crying out loud.
 
nemesisj18
Yeah good Ai, so what. Most likely it's gonna get people pissed after a while trying to beat that mini cooper in your ferrari. Seeking perfection isn't always good

You can choose the difficulty and accuracy of the simulation, including damage and assists, and I think I have read it's possible to choose how good the AI drivers are.
 
live4speed
It's very good apparently, Forza is pulling all the stops to make it feel as realistic as possible, it has driver aids which can be switched on r off to help the less experienced sim players. The Forza team also has some people from Ferrari who are helping make the cars handle correctly, my only concern with this is that the Ferrari's (Enzo in particular) could end up being better in the game than they are in real life although it's not likely that will happen, but the game is a true sim from what I've read althoguh it lacks force feedback and support of a decent wheel.

Microsoft has not said if Forza will support FF wheels or not.
It's possible that a FF wheel is released when Forza is released.
 
Is there a limit to the AI's learning curve? Will the AI "learn" until it has the perfect line on every turn on every track with every car? I mean, come on now. It could get to a point where it WILL be impossible to beat the computer unless there is a limit to it's "skill". And if there is no limiting imposed for the AI, it would just get stupid after about the first month or so. It would entice people to buy XBox Live though. :indiff:
 
erahk64
Microsoft has not said if Forza will support FF wheels or not.
It's possible that a FF wheel is released when Forza is released.

Maybe not.
Logitech are working with x-box to produce a high quality wheel for the NASCAR series. This will be a branded wheel that will work with Forza, and it supports vibration but not Force Feedback. So far there is no wheel for the x-box that supports FF and according to this article

the marketing director of Logitech doesn't think it is possible at this time even if they wanted to make one.:crazy:

I was looking at some xbox forums about the GT4vForza debate, and a common theme was that even if it is better, alot of x-box owners were willing to bet their house that GT4 would still outsell Forza by a mile. Biggest selling game on x-box so far is Halo, weighing in at a mere 4 million units.
 
fish_bate
Is there a limit to the AI's learning curve? Will the AI "learn" until it has the perfect line on every turn on every track with every car? I mean, come on now. It could get to a point where it WILL be impossible to beat the computer unless there is a limit to it's "skill". And if there is no limiting imposed for the AI, it would just get stupid after about the first month or so. It would entice people to buy XBox Live though. :indiff:

Exactly what I meant to say. As for the option of choosing AI skill; I see no point in having the "awsome" AI then. It's like adding training wheels to a motorcycle

And yes Forza is obsolete compared to GT4.
 
fish_bate
Is there a limit to the AI's learning curve? Will the AI "learn" until it has the perfect line on every turn on every track with every car? I mean, come on now. It could get to a point where it WILL be impossible to beat the computer unless there is a limit to it's "skill". And if there is no limiting imposed for the AI, it would just get stupid after about the first month or so. It would entice people to buy XBox Live though. :indiff:
Yeah. And I'd be willing to bet that their simulation mode is not as in depth as GT's. People will be beating forza in a few days, whilst people will be beating GT in years.
 
fish_bate
Is there a limit to the AI's learning curve? Will the AI "learn" until it has the perfect line on every turn on every track with every car? I mean, come on now. It could get to a point where it WILL be impossible to beat the computer unless there is a limit to it's "skill". And if there is no limiting imposed for the AI, it would just get stupid after about the first month or so. It would entice people to buy XBox Live though. :indiff:

Here is some info:

"It’s really cool to see a group approaching this problem from a completely new angle. Rather than giving the A.I. different car physics, a predestined spline, and random seed to mix it up, these guys are creating thinking A.I. that drive Forza Motorsport’s remarkably complex physics engine. Even our A.I. difficulty levels are based on learning artificial intelligence. Lower-difficulty A.I. makes human-like mistakes, such as late braking and late apex-ing.

It’s sort of hypnotic to watch the A.I. learn. I’ll tune a new car and give it over to the developer to train the A.I. driver. The A.I. driver then takes over the car and starts putting together laps. The laps get better and better as the A.I. tests out the new car’s limits. After a couple of laps, the A.I. is putting together really fast times in the exact same car physics the player drives. What’s even more amazing is that the A.I. doesn’t have to relearn on other tracks. It just applies what it knows about the car’s abilities and starts churning out hot-laps on the new track.

If you don’t work in this industry, you might not understand how unprecedented this is. Every other racing game I’ve seen has used slightly different physics and predestined splines for the A.I. The artificial intelligence in Forza Motorsport is truly intelligent."

Link: http://gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46304&page=8&pp=20 ,last post on that page.

So depending on chosen diffuculty level, the AI will probably make bigger/smaller
mistakes and fewer/more mistakes.
 
Much better than GT3, where the AI cars would slam into the wall and stay there the whole race. Or bash the same spot on the wall each lap. Or spin out at the last turn at laguna every lap. Sounds great.
 
Nice BS hype.

Live For Speed (PC) had adaptive, learning, AI over a year ago. Breakthrough? Hardly.

BTW I've created some AI monsters in LFS.
 
Tacet_Blue
Maybe not.
Logitech are working with x-box to produce a high quality wheel for the NASCAR series. This will be a branded wheel that will work with Forza, and it supports vibration but not Force Feedback. So far there is no wheel for the x-box that supports FF and according to this article

the marketing director of Logitech doesn't think it is possible at this time even if they wanted to make one.:crazy:

I was looking at some xbox forums about the GT4vForza debate, and a common theme was that even if it is better, alot of x-box owners were willing to bet their house that GT4 would still outsell Forza by a mile. Biggest selling game on x-box so far is Halo, weighing in at a mere 4 million units.

The statement from Logitech is weird. He says he is hopeful FF wheels will
work someday after he said the hardware won't make it happen.

Maybe Microsoft doesn't allow other manufacturers to release FF wheels
if Microsoft wants to release a FF wheel first (Microsoft makes/made FF wheels
for PC).
 
[RANT]
I think anyone that looks objectively at the whole "Forza vs. GT" debate has to take Microsoft at face value of their words, and atleast on the face of it, Forza Motorsport should be superior to Gran Turismo. It does all the things GT does, and all the things we'd love GT to do, but cannot (realistic damage, skid marks, engine swaps, TRUE personalisation of car styling (not just wheels)). Don't get me wrong I love all the GT games and have played them since GT2, but I also own an XBox, and it makes no odds to me which console has the superior game on it.

School-yard style "My PS2 is better than your XBox" crap asside, I think as long as Forza delivers as it promises (and it would be unwise of MS to say things they cannot follow up) it will be superior to GT - simple as that. No matter what console you prefer.

I already have GT4 on pre-order, and will play the game to death, but I am not blind to the fact that MS now recognise that the XBox NEEDS a GT type game, and with the industry influence and buying power of MS - be wary - Forza will deliver, because they now how important this is for securing the future of the XBox and its succesive consoles... Good luck to MS, it makes better games for us all around, even if it only puts the wind up Polyphony to listen to its users a little more and give us the features we demand...
[/RANT]
 
TriplePlay
Yeah. And I'd be willing to bet that their simulation mode is not as in depth as GT's. People will be beating forza in a few days, whilst people will be beating GT in years.
Very true.
 
hmmm........I seem to remeber the last time I got into the Forza Vs GT4 question! ...............:lol:
 
I know we all WANT to hate Microsoft, but on this one (and knowing some of the guys from MS game studios here in the UK) I would give them a chance... I think they know what they need to do to make this game work 👍
 
Theres no doubt that both will do very well...........MS game studios are making the most of the Xbox's power but my heart will always be with GT......well and my g'friend ;)
 
Fair play Robin. I agree, my heart will probably always belong to GT also. I just hope people give Forza the chance it deserves :)
 
There will be plenty of people who are just entering the driving sim market and will not have a sworn allegiance to the GT series. Forza will get the accolade it deserves, especially from the Xbox community.
 
God, this thread is just asking for trouble.

Forza looks great and all, but threads like this are plain stupid. All crap like this generates is people saying crap like "xbox sucks" (which it doesn't btw), "Gt4 pwnz forza" (which no one knows btw), "forza pwnz gt4" (see previous), or one all mighty graphics flame war.

I have to laugh at all the people saying crap like "oh my heart is stolen by Gt4", grow up, it's just a smegging brand. Who cares, if forza is better, then it's better, games arn't better then others JUST because of a name, or the games before it.
 
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