Four Hours: The Nürburgring 4Hr Companion & Competition

Discussion in 'GT5 Race Reports' started by Famine, May 14, 2011.

  1. kmkp


    Thanks axletramp, I've been following this thread for quite a while and wanted to create a report that was post v2.10. I think the scenarios that typically play out in this event have evolved over the past while and there aren't as many "new" reports up to reference. You are right about the fuel. I've been more careful in the past to calculate it. I didn't need full fuel at first pit and in the end wound up with extra. I was sort of "winging" it and it turned out to make it quite an intense last lap! Man that "Yellowbird" still goes all out, full glow red tread! Man alive.
  2. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    kmpk, very prettily done indeed, and on RM and all aids off! And the opposition!

    Regarding fuel, I put in the quantum consumed + 4 liters. To be on the safe side. Arithmetic isn't my strongest discipline and I recollect the end of an Indy Endurance ...I don't want to talk about it!
  3. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    United Kingdom
    14th May 2011
    Car used: Mazda Eunos Roadster (NA Special Package) '89, "Speccy"
    Tuning: Err... a lot. Everything, in fact, apart from the turbos - supercharger used. Racing soft tyres.
    PP: ~482PP
    Power, Weight, PWR: 239hp, 831kg, 287.6hp/tonne

    Lap 1 - 9'11.333
    The lights change and I'm suddenly last. Giving away 200hp to your nearest opponent will have that effect. Luckily, I can brake far later into turn 1 and get the power on far earlier than the AI and I'm back up to sixth by turn 2 and up to fifth past the HKS CT230R by turn 5.

    The HPA R32, in fourth place, is a much harder prospect. With a big, wide bottom and four-wheel drive to help him out of the turns he's a pest right through to Hocheichen where he's too late on the brakes and the inside line is mine.

    Speccy tops out at 157mph but can take Flugplatz and Schwedenkreuz flat where the Mine's Skyline ahead has to shade the brakes - but his power pulls him well clear again through Fuchsröhre. Miss-Hit-Miss proves a weak spot for the Skyline and he can't gain speed quickly enough to make up for Speccy's momentum through the corner. I'm clear up the inside on the right-hander before Wehrseifen and make it stick round the outside - leaving me within sight of the Amuse S2000 in 2nd at Breidscheid. Again though, the power disadvantage is obvious as from Bergwerk through to Klostertal I'm left for dead - the Mine's Skyline is all over me too until Angstkurve where he has to brake again.

    Much of the rest of the lap has me clawing back the 5 second advantage the lead pair have and at Karussell II I'm within touching distance of the Amuse, but Döttinger Höhe puts paid to that as I'm left standing again. Come the finish line I'm not only 8 seconds down, but in fifth place as first the Mine's Skyline comes flying past and then, during that move, the Fairlady Z-Tune screams past the pair of us...

    Lap 2 - 8'57.596
    ...however, as previously, both are dispatched at turn 1 as Speccy's superior brakes come into play. After this point the lap is very much a carbon copy of the previous one as I'm hopelessly outclassed on the GP track and in the straights and claw back the time everywhere else. This time round, however, I pass the Amuse S2000 on the way into Karussell II and get within a half second of the leading HPA TT by the gantry on Döttinger Höhe, but the straight utterly kills me again and the S2000 retakes 2nd. By Hohenrain the Fairlady is on my tail again and nips into 3rd before the line.

    Lap 3 - 9'19.327
    And is immediately repassed at the hairpin. The lap is again a straight copy of the previous one, until...

    Crash. Coming through Angstkurve, the rear-right dips onto the grass past the concrete and the next thing I know I'm nose-in to the right hand barrier. While I sort myself out, the Fairlady, Mine's Skyline and 380RS Superleggera come past and the HKS CT230R passes me once I'm underway. Damn and blast - seventh. Right back where I started, only a bit more tenderised. Time for some scruff-of-the-neck driving.

    The HKS doesn't last long - passed through Wipperman - but the others are some distance down the road I cross the line in sixth.

    Lap 4 - 9'00.278
    I'm now 24 seconds down on the lead pair and there's a Nismo 380RS, a Mine's Skyline and a Z-tune in my way. Again, Speccy's flat cornering through Flugplatz and Schwedenkreuz catches the 380RS up again but, unlike the Mine's on lap 1, he can't get away through Fuchsröhre and, surprisingly, leaves the door open through Adenauer. Never one to pass up an opportunity like that, I take the place and set off after the 380RS.

    The rest of this lap is largely playing catch-up - the 380RS is within sight by Karussell II, demolishes me down the straight and is back filling my screen at Hohenrain.

    My original plan was four lap stints, but neither of the lead pair pit and the 380RS cruises past the pits too, so I stay out - the rear tyres are pretty good, though the front pair are down to half and the front-right particularly is starting to slip. But let's live a little!

    Lap 5 - 9'06.241
    The 380RS falls in turn 1 and the Fairlady has built up some gap. It takes some driving before I even see it again - first catching sight on the hill up to Karussell. Surprisingly it surrenders its place very meekly at the exit of Hohe Acht as I drive clean round the outside of him.

    The next sight of car is in the distance on Döttinger - the orange of the Audi who seems to have lost the lead to the Amuse S2000. As I dive into the pits from third at the end of the lap, it's also clear that the Audi has pitted but the Amuse has not...

    Lap 6 - 9'30.376
    The Mine's pits behind me but the 380RS continues, passing me, and, surprisingly, the CT230R does too. I decline any fuel - 38 litres used so far - and leave the pits before the Audi but in fourth place.

    When I finally catch up to the 380RS and the CT230R at Adenauer, they're running line-astern. They're struggling in the bends and once again Wehrseifen proves to be a passing spot as I get a better run through Miss-Hit-Miss, take the HKS on the inside and drive round the outside of the 380RS at Wehrseifen.

    The S2000, meanwhile, has run too far on his tyres - between Breidscheid and Eiskurve, I take 16 seconds out of his lead, catching and passing him through clouds of dust at Pflanzgarten II and as I cross the line at the end of the lap, I've put 12 seconds between us (nicking up to 21 seconds as he pits and the TT resumes the lead of the AI pack).

    Lap 7 - 8'57.926
    With a 21 second lead at the start of the lap, I'm in little danger of seeing any AI even if I crash. And so it proves, with nothing of any note save the passing of the first hour at 6 laps and 5'54.849 elapsed.

    Lap 8 - 8'59.226
    My lead is slowly increasing as I'm ahead in the bends and all my advantage is taken away again on the straights - but nothing else happens.

    Lap 9 - 9'00.314
    More of the same.

    Lap 10 - 9'01.860
    My laptimes seem to be going up as my tyres wear but I'm not seeing the slipping I was getting in the last stint, so I decide to stay out for a laugh. Of course everything else behind me pits (save the S2000, 380RS and CT230R), giving me a minute's lead...

    Lap 11 - 9'05.180
    So, aside from a minute's advantage, not a lot happens. I pit in at the end of the lap and foul up a little - quick pointer for y'all, when you pause the game with your Pit Instructions on the screen and the timer counting down... it doesn't pause the timer. So while working out that I've used 84 litres at 7.6 litres per lap and making a six-lap stint worth 45.8 litres, meaning I need to probably put in enough to fill it to 50 litres (34 litres - I've got 16 left), the board vanishes and I find I'm putting the whole of Alaska into the tank.

    Luckily, I've got a minute's lead and the car in second can't run the next lap on the tyres he's got left but will try to anyway. I still leave with time to spare, mind.

    Lap 12 - 10'08.990
    Oh yeah, a minute wasted in the pits. 1'18 lead turns to 11s, but the Amuse S2000 loses time hand over first through the lap until I'm 41s ahead and he's passed by two other AI cars. No other action though.

    Lap 13 - 9'15.318
    The car feels heavy again and my lead is cut to 30s by the finish line.

    Lap 14 - 9'09.362
    My lead's down to 25s by the finish line but still there's no AI in evidence. Nothing else exciting happens except for hour 2 passing at 13 laps plus 25.995s elapsed...

    Lap 15 - 9'02.667
    The nothing is strong in this one - though the chasing AI pit behind me and I pull out to a minute ahead again.

    Lap 16 - 9'06.268
    Knowing that 26 laps is the typical completion distance for winning this race, I decide to make this a five lap stint, so that I can make the next one five laps too and finish on another five lapper, rather than halfway through a cycle - plus it gives me the flexibility of having a sixth lap in the last stint. 39 litres of gas used, none taken on board, in and out in 30 seconds flat. Rah!

    Lap 17 - 9'27.516

    Lap 18 - 8'56.756
    A new personal best, coupled with a lapping - the Nismo 400R is passed, as he moves off-line to let me through, between Karussell II and Galgenkopf (though he catches up on Döttinger, he doesn't close up enough to unlap himself.

    Lap 19 - 8'57.810
    A whole lot of nothings.

    Lap 20 - 9'05.547
    Running a bit wide in Pflanzgarten cost me a bit of time, but nothing major. 3 hours passes without drama at 19 laps plus 5'45.616 elapsed just as I'm entering Caracciota-Karussell.

    Lap 21 - 9'06.735
    I've backed off a bit now - the timer tells me that 9 minute laps gives me just over two minutes of dead time at the end of the race to either start another lap (and go for 7 more minutes) or to hang about waiting. I've got a 2'30 lead now and it goes up every lap, so a little sandbagging will preserve the gap and shrink the dead time to a minute or so.

    This is also my last scheduled pitstop. The board tells me I've used 77 litres, so I've got 23 left. I take on board another 25 litres - to 48 in total - which is enough for 6 full laps and fumes...

    Lap 22 - 9'35.127
    Not much again - though the clock now says four 9'30 laps will see me finish just a couple of seconds past the hour and about a minute up on the AI (though they'll all pit one more time).

    Lap 23 - 9'32.218
    Well... if I'm sandbagging I may as well give myself a bit of breathing room.

    Lap 24 - 9'31.254
    The AI are closing to within a minute now, but they've all got pitstops either this lap or the next, where they'll no doubt sit still for a minute taking on board a full tank. Might be a squeaker though...

    Lap 25 - 9'32.183
    Yep. They pitted. What was a 37s lead became a 1'44 lead and I can happily sandbag my way to the end.

    Lap 26 - 9'25.594
    A bundle of nada, and hour 4 passes at 25 laps plus 9'22.935 elapsed, with the finish line in sight. 2.6 seconds later and the race is done.

    Race Time 4:00'02.659

    Lead AI
    2nd HPA FT565 Twin Turbo Audi TT +1'00
    3rd HKS CT230R
    4th Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 Base '00
    5th Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base '06
    6th Nismo Fairlady Z Z-tune (Z33) '03

    The Eunos in this state of tune is way too much car for the event - with the AI taking a minute every pit stop and the car matching the Amuse S2000 on outright pace, only the occasional crash (and crashing this car is tough) will bring the AI near you. You're looking at a win by over 5 minutes if you don't stuff it up and sandbag, with the result that you won't see an AI car except to lap them after the first hour.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  4. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    United States
    Subaru BRZ S '12
    405 PP
    PL 97.1%
    229 Hp
    Racing soft tires
    mileage: ~8000 miles, black oil
    Full setup gladly supplied upon request.
    Aids: None except ABS 1
    G27, AT

    Total time: 4:02:13.057, 26 laps completed
    MoV: ~25 seconds
    My fastest lap: 9:05.053

    Starting lineup: von Stiefel's special mystery grid :drool:
    1. Amuse Carbon R '04
    2. High End Performance G37
    3. Nissan Option Stream Z '04
    4. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06
    5. Nismo Skyline GT-R R-tune (R34) '99
    6. Gran Turismo 350Z RS
    7. Dotini Subaru BRZ S '12
    8. Mine's BNR34 GT-R V-spec N1 base '00
    9. Nismo Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32) '00
    10. Mine's Lancer Evolution VI '00
    11.HPA Motorsport Stage II R32
    12. Art Morrison Corvette '60

    Race description:
    Lap 1. 9:27.895. Dropped to 12th at start, but climb to 4th before encountering the old circuit. Passing mainly on the outside without contact. 3rd by Aremberg. 2nd by Breidscheid. Hold 'em off on Kesselchen. Swamped by 4 cars on Dottinger. Down to 7th at start/finish. I'm in for a long day!
    Lap 2. 9:10.887. Regain 4th place by Bergwerk. I'm down 4.3 seconds to the Carbon R, BNR34 '06 and BNR34 '00.
    Lap 3. 9:07.887. I'm passed by the Nismo R-tune, but repass at Kallenhard. The BNR34 twins are lapping at very close to 9 minutes flat!
    Lap 4. 9:11.598. I'm down 16 seconds to the BNR34 '00, who has taken the lead. The Carbon R pits, so I'm 3rd.
    Lap 5. 9:15.166. I'm shown 22 seconds behind when I pit. The leading BNR takes over 75 liters, while I take only 25, so I emerge in the lead.
    Tire wear note: The left front wore the most, down by around 50% or a bit more.
    Lap 6. 9:41.117. The BNR34 '00 is catching rapidly, so I am finally obliged to block at the Start-und Zielgerade. I lead by 0.122.
    Lap 7. 9:07.058. Damn! I lose the lead and follow by 1.852.
    Lap 8. 9:10.626. Down 11 seconds. Humph.
    Lap 9. 9:10.863. Down 17.5 seconds. I will shoot another silver bullet at the next stop to retake the lead and resume blocking, at least that's my rescue plan!
    Lap 10. 9:12.621. I short fill again and once again assume the vanguard. This time, I must not allow him by, I say to myself.
    Lap 11. 9:42.898. Up 04.139 by "virtue" of blocking.
    Lap 12. 9:05.956. Lead by 0.161.
    Lap 13. 9:16.015. Lead by 0.106.
    Lap 14. 9:11.563. Lead by 0.163
    Lap 15. 9:41.719. Disaster strikes in a peculiar way. Coming thru Galgenkopf, the power of my engine suddenly died, even though my foot was down on the G27 pedal. After a number of seconds, it picked up again, but I lost many seconds, and I would need to shoot the last of my fuel reserve in another short fill to catch back up to the lead. I still have no idea as to the source of this mystery.:confused:
    Lap 16. 9:47.243. Led by 0.130, and back to blocking.
    Lap 17 9:06.801. Leading by 0.308.
    Lap 18. 9:18.249. Lost lead at Tiergarten in a spin. I'm back to 3rd behind the twin BNR34's. Shazbot!
    Lap 19. 9:05.053. Still in 3rd, 12 seconds back, but I'm devising a new plan.
    Lap 20. 9:11.349. Down 24 seconds, I take another short fill - enough to get me only 4 laps down the road, but more importantly, back into the lead again.
    Lap 21. 9:38.745. 7 seconds in the lead.
    Lap 22. 9:05.053. Up by 2 seconds!
    Lap 23. 9:08.089. Blocking, up by 0.135.
    Lap 24. 9:06.212. Pit from a microscopic lead for a short fill of 16 liters.
    Lap 25. 9:43.894. I'm about half a minute back from the leaders when they pull in for their heavy final load.
    Lap 26. 9:13.551. Assuming the lead at the start of the lap with an eventual interim margin of about 35 seconds, I take it careful the final miles for a decent margin of victory of about 25 seconds. Whew! Normally I don't block, but this run demanded it. My BRZ could benefit from some more fine-tuning, but at 405 PP, it's seriously too slow for me to win without at least some blocking of the AI. I did not need to block with my 420 PP run in the Elise.

    Finishing order...............................Pits..Best lap
    1. Dotini Subaru BRZ......................5.......9:05.053
    2. BNR34 GT-R V-spec N1 base '00...5.......8:59.402
    3. BNR34 GT-R N1 base '06.............5.......9:00.317
    4. Nismo GT-R R-tune '99................5........9:03.324
    5. Carbon R '04..............................4........9:06.354
    6. G37..........................................6.........9:07.953
    7. Stage II R32..............................5.........9:07.897
    8. Nismo GT-R S-tune '00................5.........9:10.375
    9. Art Morrison Corvette '60.............4.........9:14.458
    10. Option Stream Z.......................5.........9:12.384
    11. Mine's Lancer Evo VI '00............6........9:42.307
    12. Gran Turismo 350Z RS...............5.........9:24.242

    I have taken advantage of the recent v2.10 update by using the Subaru BRZ. New, it had come with 401 PP or so, and now it comes with 379 - a significant advantage!

    This car is good, but it cannot yet get consistently better than 5 good laps on Race Softs (the way I tune and drive it), whereas the Elise 111R can get 6. So I don't yet know which is really better. I'm sure some ace driver will get below 400 PP some time soon! v2.10 appears to have advantaged FR's, so perhaps the S2000, MX-5, RX-7, RX-8 etc. now need a closer look-see. :idea:

    Respectfully submitted,
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    tmtk likes this.
  5. Famine

    Famine Administrator

    United Kingdom
    As some of you may have noticed, I'm jiggling the OP about a bit and I've hit a hole of confusion. I can't remember which updates dramatically affected what was possible.

    I recall v2.02 was the first big hiccup, because that's the last time I updated anything. I seem to remember v2.04 changed things too, but I can't remember what. I have it in my head that v2.08 futzed with aerodynamic drag/downforce ratios - and obviously v2.10 has moved the PP goalposts again.

    Can anyone remember what it was that changed and with which update?
  6. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Updated v2.09 was the last change to the tyre wear model. Both the GVS300 and Laguna 200 threads highlight any runs made post v2.09 because the grip levels were so different... and more realistic.
  7. kmkp


    Friday, January 18, 2013
    OK, all I can say is that this was…. Intense.

    BMW Concept 1 Series tii ’07 – “Envy” Green
    320HP, 1236kg, 468PP, RM Tires, PL 100%
    All Aids Off, ABS 0, G27 Manual H-Shift (sore feet)

    BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base ‘06
    S2000 GT1 ‘04
    400R ‘96
    Carbon R (R34) ‘04
    Amemiya FD3S RX-7
    NISMO 380RS Super Leggera
    Concept 1 Series tii ‘07
    IS F Racing Concept ‘08
    Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32) ‘00
    BNR34 SKYLINE GT-R V-spec N1 base
    350Z ‘04

    Lap Times – Highlights
    L1 - 9:11.878 – Climbed to 2nd and stayed there for entire race pretty much.
    L2 - 8:56.898
    L3 - 8:58.084
    L4 – 9:00.402
    L5 – 9:03.312
    L6 – 9:08.025 - 20 Litres
    L7 – 9:25.874
    L8 – 9:00.343
    L9 – 9:00.328
    L10 – 9:00.751
    L11 – 9:02.296
    L12 – 9:04.134 - 45 Litres
    L13 – 9:47.626
    L14 – 8:58.394
    L15 – 8:59.847
    L16 – 9:00.194
    L17 – 9:02.950
    L18 – 9:06.722 - 55 Litres
    L19 – 9:48.617 (1:08.519 Behind Leader)
    L20 – 8:58.792
    L21 - 8:57.299
    L22 – 9:00.217 - 25 Litres
    L23 – 9:29.866 - (57.432 Behind Leader)
    L24 – 8:56.048 Fastest Lap - (56.971 Behind Leader)
    L25 – 8:58.616 (Amuse Pits and comes out just behind me for the final dash to finish)
    L26 – 8:59.774
    L27 – 9:01.674 Blocking! Won over Amuse S2000 GT1 ’04 Gap – 00.107

    Only competition was Amuse S2000 GT1 ’04 (no longer running a slow lap prior to pit for him since tire wear update), I was 2nd for virtually the entire race and driving alone most of the time. Was only able to get in front of the Amuse a couple times due to pit strategy and then stay in front with some serious blocking that started basically around Adenauer Forst on lap 27. Dottinger was a sketch fest as I thought that at any second my bumper would be tapped and I would eat Armco. :nervous: Didn’t love winning by blocking but… I think it will be a while before I try this hard of a challenge again! Wow. :scared: I think GTsail has had one of these types of finishes before?

    Photo Finish

  8. kmkp


    Hey Axle! Took your advice, see my latest race report. Intense!
  9. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Very nice race, I haven't had anything that close for a while. Might have to plan another hack at this - it's been a while. Glad your tactics worked out OK. :tup:

    And don't worry, I believe all of us have had to use *cough* 'wide' cars at times against the AI. Tbh, until PD sort out the erratic AI behaviour, they're not exactly above some pretty dirty racing themselves. ;)
  10. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    LOL! We had a couple of very nice and closely fought races there. That's what I like to see, not cruising on your own for hours and hours, regularly lapping the opposition.

    But I can't be happy with Dotini's excellent result: it means I have to set my sights on 404 PP and no longer a PP of 409 ...while still struggling to accomplish something sensible at 415 PP in the Honda Integra.
    I had tested the Subara BRZ and found it lacking. But that was under 2.09: I'm in the process up updating to 2.10 right now now - this involves moving the PS to a spot within range of the wireless and angling it just so, and I tend to play offline, also so as not to have wires everywhere.

    On to new adventures!

    (Oh yes: 2.10, and the Subaru BRZ could be something. I can see I have carefully juggled the upgrades to be in the range of 415-419 PP, thereabouts. But it now says 396 PP. The PP of the FT-86 Concept '09 has also been reduced. BMW Z4 '03 I think. Scion FR-S '12? Toyota '86 GT '12. And the Prowler! Mazda Eunos Roadster S-Special '05. And they 're only the ones catching my eye in a not very comprehensive garage.Heh-heh, this should be fun!)
  11. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    United States
    Although I held only 2nd place in a BNR sandwich for laps 24 and 25, in the end the AI had to follow their pit schedule and go in for tires and gas at the end of lap 25, and so I cruised right on by for an untroubled final 26th lap. The first few laps were also amusing, as I was fully able to honestly fight for the lead, and not rely on blocking or other funny tactics. In between these bookends of close racing, I was generally half a minute ahead for laps 4 thru 23, my Solstice Coupe able to speed up Kesselchen at 134mph and Dottinger at 155. I found it prudent to lift lightly at scary places like Flugplatz, Schwedenkreuz and Mutkurve.

    Yes, v2.10 has been generous to certain FR cars, and who are we to look a gift horse in the mouth? So here we have the first sub 400 PP N4. Certainly only the first of many more to come! Among the cars I tested prior to the race were an old RX-7, the MB 190E 2.5 Evo II '91, Subaru BRZ, and several Silvias (especially the RM), all some of which might also get the job done. But in early testing, the Solstice shone brightest for me. The handling is a little touchy at times, and the power is still coming down as the car goes through its black oil cycle, so it will stand some additional tuning.

    Pontiac Solstice Coupe Concept '02
    399/395 PP
    PL 91.0%
    250 Hp
    1209kg (112kg ballast @ +44: 50%/50%)
    Racing soft tires
    mileage: 3658.7 miles, no oil change
    Full setup gladly supplied upon request.
    Aids: None except ABS 1
    G27, AT

    Total time: 4:00:57.683, 26 laps completed
    MoV: ~50 seconds
    My fastest lap: 9:00.055

    Starting lineup: von Stiefel's special mystery grid. :drool: (2nd N4 after GV300 and LeMans 24 x 2).
    1. Amuse Carbon R '04
    2. High End Performance G37
    3. Nissan Option Stream Z '04
    4. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06
    5. Nismo Skyline GT-R R-tune (R34) '99
    6. Gran Turismo 350Z RS
    7. Dotini Solstice Coupe Concept '02
    8. Mine's BNR34 GT-R V-spec N1 base '00
    9. Nismo Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32) '00
    10. Mine's Lancer Evolution VI '00
    11.HPA Motorsport Stage II R32
    12. Art Morrison Corvette '60

    Race description:
    Lap 1. 9:14.876. Dropped to 10th(?) at start, but climb to 4th before encountering the old circuit. Passing cleanly both on the inside and on the outside, and without contact. 1st by Aremberg. Hold 'em off easy on Kesselchen. Passed by the Carbon R just before start / finish.
    Lap 2. 9:14.004. Regain 1st pretty much right away, but later half-spun at Galgenkopf. Fell to 4th. No real harm done.
    Lap 3. 9:06.163 Recovered to first by the 1st hairpin of the GP circuit, then was literally pushed by the BNR34 '06 down to 2nd entering the old circuit. Cleared him by Kallenhard, and moved away into the lead. I am about equal in terms of lap time to the best AI, but they are quicker in a straight line. I can legally hog the line on Kesselchen and they can't get by. On Dottinger, they get by but I can draft real well with plenty of headroom for more speed in the gears. My pit strategy will drive the final nail in the AI coffin. :D
    Lap 4. 9:02.516
    Lap 5. 9:10.178. I pit, take 27 liters, and depart in 1st.
    Tire wear note: Fairly even all around, but the left side tires wore the most by a bit, down to around 50% or so.
    Lap 6. 9:40.337
    Lap 7. 9:00.055 I'm leading by several seconds now.
    Lap 8. 9:03.771
    Lap 9. 9:08.261
    Lap 10. 9:08.198 I stop for rubber and 40 liters.
    Lap 11. 9:44.362
    Lap 12. 9:06.107
    Lap 13. 9:06.143 I'm about 30 seconds ahead at this point.
    Lap 14. 9:09.542
    Lap 15. 9:08.361 Pit stop for tires and 41 liters
    Lap 16. 9:53.083
    Lap 17 9:05.690
    Lap 18. 9:08.448
    Lap 19. 9:13.910 Spun at Wipperman! :yuck:
    Lap 20. 9:32.684 - Missed the pit in and had to reverse in the main straight. :dunce: Oopsy!! Called for 18 liters. Barely hold onto the lead, pulling out as the others are still gassing up.
    Lap 21. 9:38.918
    Lap 22. 9:06.145
    Lap 23. 9:08.783 I stop for 18 liters and new tires.
    Lap 24. 9:47.236 Having fallen to 2nd, I enjoy a battle with the two BNR34's!
    Lap 25. 9:04.845 Still as much as 8 seconds behind. It feels weird being 2nd with two laps to go, and knowing the AI must pit for you to win. :crazy:
    Lap 26. 9:14.455 Right on time, the AI BNR34's pit, and I cruise to a comfy win!

    Finishing order...............................Pits ..Best lap
    1. Dotini Solstice Coupe Concept......5.......9:00.055
    2. BNR34 GT-R N1 base '06..............5.......8:58.373
    3. BNR34 GT-R V-spec N1 base '00...5.......8:59.590
    4. Nismo GT-R R-tune '99.
    5. Carbon R '04
    6. G37
    7. Stage II R32
    8. Nismo GT-R S-tune '00
    9. Art Morrison Corvette '60
    10. Option Stream Z
    11. Mine's Lancer Evo VI '00
    12. Gran Turismo 350Z RS

    Respectfully submitted,
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  12. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    LOL, the mystery grid is no longer a mystery and we should see some results very soon.

    I have been testing a diverse assembly of cars in order to discover the ultimate one for the N4 after the latest update. That's me and GT 5, I test cars: I rarely finish a race but after I've raced a few laps - an hour at the most - I go on to the next car. So it has been throughout Le Mans 24, Nürburgring 24 etc etc. If we were given XP according to the mileage and not races finished I would be King of the Hill.

    A bit of flu and the aching right hand have prevented me from finishing a few promising races at 399 PP. I see I have to reduce the PP a bit more now, darn! But I do have some promising cars at the ready: the Prowler, the BMW Z4, the TVR Griffith. Problem is, I find it much more fun to go looking for an inconspicious winner among the used car lot.

    The Pontiac Solstice is a nice discovery.
  13. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    Mazda Roadster TC

    Opposition was the not-so-very-mysterious grid (GV + LM24*2 + N4*2):

    1. Amuse Carbon R '04
    2. High End Performance G37
    3. Nissan Option Stream Z '04
    4. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06
    5. Nismo Skyline GT-R R-tune (R34) '99
    6. Gran Turismo 350Z RS
    7. Mazda Roadster TC in an intimidating Racing Green
    8. Mine's BNR34 GT-R V-spec N1 base '00
    9. Nismo Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32) '00
    10. Mine's Lancer Evolution VI '00
    11.HPA Motorsport Stage II R32
    12. Art Morrison Corvette '60

    I had been testing cars until my hands ached, and I wanted a likely win win for a change. Therefore Skid Recovery "On"
    Active Steering "Mild"
    ABS "9"
    Driving Line, TC and ASM all "Off".

    209 BHP (PL of 80.9% Turbo High)
    995 kg (200 kg ballast incl.)
    390 PP
    Racing Soft
    Six laps between pit stops.

    1. 9:13.0 - I won the lap a fraction of a second ahead of the Carbon R. From 1:30 into the lap I drove the entire race from the front. The initial acceleration was impressive and I dived into the 180 corner from 7th or 8th spot.

    2. 9:00.8 - I won the lap 5-6 secs ahead of the Carbon R. Then BNR34 '06, G37, Option Stream, Skyline R-tune, Stage II, BNR34 '00.

    3. 9:09.2 - BNR34 '06 +10 secs. Tyres showing the first wear.

    4. 9:09.7 - BNR34 '06 +5 secs. Then a gap and the G37, GT-R R-tune, BNR34 '00, Option Stream, Stage II, GT-R S-tune. Carbon R pitted.

    5. 9:11.8 - pit-pit-pit almost everyone except yours truly and the BNR34 '00.

    6. 9:22.6 - I pitted at end of lap, entering the pit lane around 30 secs ahead of the BNR34 '00. All four tyres degraded at the end of lap 6, the front quite severely.

    7. 9:41.9 - 46 liters consumed, 30 into the tank. Finish lap with BNR34 '06 on second spot +5.5 secs.

    8. 9:01.0 - BNR34 '06 +8 secs. Then a gap to Carbon R, Skyline R-tune, BNR34 '00 etc.

    9. 9:06.9 - BNR34 '06 +5 secs.

    10. 9:06.5 -

    11. 9:12.2 - BNR34 '00 +58 secs.

    12. 9:16.3 - the BNR34 '06 on second spot now, trailing by a minute.

    13. 9:39.0 - I resumed the suspended game. 30 liters into tank. I exited pit lane to find myself 11 secs in front of the BNR34 '06. At end of lap BNR 34 '06 +8 secs. Then BNR34 '00. GT-R R-tune. G37. Carbon R etc.

    14. 9:02.1 - BNR34 '06 +12 secs.

    15. 9:07.5 - BNR34 '00 on second spot when the '06 pitted at end of lap. Lapped the 1st car.

    16. 9:06.7 - BNR34 '06 again on second spot at end of lap. +1:20.

    17. 9:11.2 - BNR34 '06 +1:10.

    18. 9:12.9 -

    19. 9:40.9 - 35 liters into tank. Exited pit lane 20 secs ahead of BNR34 '06. At end of lap it was 23 secs.

    20. 8:56.700 - Best Lap.

    21. 9:03.0 - BNR34 '00 +1:43.

    22. 9:08.6 - BNR34 '06 +1:34

    23. 9:09.2 - BNR34 '06 +1:27

    24. 9:26.1 - I spun off the track on the long fast right corner entering the Long Straight.

    25. 9:44.0 - 30 liters, more than needed. Exited pit lane 29 secs ahead. It would have been a win even without the BNR34 '06 pitting at the end of the lap.

    26. 9:something - 4-hour mark passed shortly before I reached the S/F line at full throttle.

    BNR34 '00 finished on 2nd spot. Around 1:25 down.
    Then the BNR34 '06.
    Skyline GT-R R-tune.
    Carbon R.

    Next: the same race with no Skid recovery and Active Steering, and an ABS of "1". I very much doubt there are six laps in the tyres for that.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  14. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    Mazda Roadster TC

    205 BHP (PL 92.2% no turbo)((correction: turbo low))
    995 kg (200 kg ballast)
    388 PP
    Racing soft

    All aids OFF except an ABS of "1".
    5 laps between pit stops (except I skipped the last and made it a six-lap)

    Opposition was the Mystery Grid (GV + LM24*2 + N4*2):

    1. Amuse Carbon R '04
    2. High End Performance G37
    3. Nissan Option Stream Z '04
    4. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06
    5. Nismo Skyline GT-R R-tune (R34) '99
    6. Gran Turismo 350Z RS
    7. Mazda Roadster TC in an intimidating Racing Green
    8. Mine's BNR34 GT-R V-spec N1 base '00
    9. Nismo Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32) '00
    10. Mine's Lancer Evolution VI '00
    11. HPA Motorsport Stage II R32
    12. Art Morrison Corvette '60

    Main oppos were the BNR34 '00 and the BNR34 '06 (BNR00 and BNR06).

    The first attempt of seven laps wasn't satisfactory and I adjusted the suspension, following which the car was a great deal more stable and could be cornered with more aggressiveness.

    1. 9:14.2 - I quickly gained 1st spot, within ....oh 1:30 or so.

    2. 9:09.2 - First two laps were Ego, Carbon R, BNR06, G37.

    3. 9:17.6 - The Aremberg gravel sent me back one spot but I was back in front within a couple minutes. Lap ended with Ego - BNR06 - Carbon R - G37 - BNR00.

    4. 9:17.4 - Carbon R pitted at end of lap from 3rd spot.

    5. 9:15.8 - Beginning the lap: Ego - BNR06 - BNR00 - G37 - GT-R R-tune. We pitted at end of lap.

    6. 9:43.0 - 37 liters consumed, took on 22 liters. 1st checkpoint: Ego - Carbon R +27 secs - BNR00 - BNR06 - 350Z RS - G37 - GT-R R-tune.

    7. 9:09.7 - BNR00 +25 secs - Carbon R - BNR06 - GT-R R-tune - G37.

    8. 9:12.3 - BNR00 +15 secs.

    9. 9:12.3 - BNR00 +7secs - largish gap down to BNR06.

    10. 9:14.2 - I pitted right ahead of BNR00.

    11. 9:47.7 - 22 liters. BNR00 +23 secs.

    12. 9:02.052 - BEST LAP. BNR00 +21 secs.

    13. 9:08.2 - BNR00 +15 secs.

    14. 9:12.8 - BNR00 +7 secs.

    15. 9:22.7 -

    16. 9:45.9 - 22 liters. BNR00 +23 secs.

    17. 9:05.0 - BNR00 +18 secs.

    18. 9:07.0 - BNR00 +12 secs.

    19. 9:10.5 - BNR00 +7 secs.

    20. 9:15.8 -

    21. 9:51.7 - 18 liters left (I think it was) and took on 35 liters so as to drive straight on to the finish with no more pit stops.

    22. 9:03.5 - BNR00 +14 secs.

    23. 9:08.7 - BNR00 +5 secs.

    24. 9:10.0 - BNR00 +2 secs.

    25. 9:19.0 - BNR00 soon caught up with me but was easily blocked. Thus enabling BNR06 to catch us and sneak into 2nd spot at the end of the Long Straight. They pitted, I carried on!

    26. 9:25.0 - And I won by a fair margin.

    Great fun it was, although the final result was barely in doubt after the first few laps. Most of the race was on my own, relying on low fuel consumption and quick pit stops.
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  15. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    United States
    That's an impressive achievement, von Stiefel. :cheers:
    For your next excellent accomplishment, you are invited to set some new records at Grand Valley and Laguna Seca!

  16. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    Uh-oh ...I was afraid of that. But thanks :)
    I saved the game, and I intend - one day - to watch the entire race in Rear View. I remember watching MOST of the N4 in Rear View once after winning in the Veyron: seeing the rear spoiler go up and down was great fun.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
  17. italian06


    Hi I want to try this race out but I do not no which car to use I want a close battle and not stomp the opponents .
  18. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    The Caterham is a fun one : despite a rather high PP it has a top speed nowhere near that of the opponents and you have to rely on fuel economy.

    Then there is the Bugatti Veyron ..on Sports tyres!

    Or a family saloon, bringing along your wife, kids and granny for the occasion. A uber-powered BMW is perfect.

    The Prowler .....there are lots of fun ones for a fun race.

    (I'm back to Dead Space 3 ...there won't be much GT 5 for some days)
  19. CobaltSTI


    United Kingdom
    The Amuse s2000 gt1 turbo is doing 8:20s. There is no way I can keep up
  20. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    It is a beastie, along with the Audi. They really are for your highest-powered cars only, to offer them some resistance.
    Fortunately we can reload the map and lots of easier lineups have been discovered.
    I think the easiest discovered so far is the "Mystery Grid": restart GT 5, then load Grand Valley endurance once, Le Mans 24 H twice, and finally Nürburgring 4 H twice.
  21. CobaltSTI


    United Kingdom
    I knew it was a lot faster than the other cars but a couple of seconds quicker in each section compared to my nissan skyline r33 lm proto with 550bhp? :V
  22. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    And the S2000 Turbo is a 616 BHP car, and a mere 1120 kg. There are other considerations than BHP and PP.
    If we look at the race's "Typical Opponents" list we find the BNR34 '06 on 4th spot. At least five of cars listed lower on PP, I consider to be stronger: I therefore happily accepted the BNR on the "Mystery Grid" while taking care to avoid the other ones.

    I am back from four laps against a lineup including the S2000 Turbo:

    I was in the Skyline GT-R R33 TC

    548 BHP
    1115 kg
    600 PP

    Racing soft, no aids axcept an ABS of "1".

    After lap one: The S2000 Turbo was stuck in 3rd spot for most of the lap, only achieving 2nd spot near the end. I won the lap by 28 seconds, pushing hard.

    After lap two: I was 35 seconds in front. And this includes spinnning TWICE.

    After lap three: I was 42 seconds in front. Continuing to push hard I struck a barrier twice, once brought to a complete stop.

    After lap four, on now very worn tyres: I was 46 seconds in front, again including spinning twice and during one of them brought to a stop.

    So you see, I cannot agree that the S2000 Turbo is VERY much faster. Keep in mind this was a car/track combination unfamiliar to me and I had several incidents I would have avoided during race conditions.

    EDIT: a few more laps, this time on Racing Hard. I had no trouble staying just ahead of the S2000 Turbo, several times I deliberately let him overtake me and I had sufficient surplus acceleration and speed to overtake him with no difficulty whatsoever. Perhaps you need to consider your setup?

    EDIT: The GT-R Concept LM Race Car, BHP limited to 550, also is faster than the S2000 Turbo. Being an FR it is quite unstable without driver aids, but by fondling the throttle with some care the S2000 should be no match.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  23. CobaltSTI


    United Kingdom
    no, it's the r33 lm proto. Not nearly as quick. Also, I can keep it off but if it gets in front I'm screwed. It has the speed and aerodynamic advantage, even though the r33 is incredibly stable. I might try again without the OP cars
  24. von Stiefel

    von Stiefel

    My garage doesn't have that one, that's why I tried something similar. My point being that there are good cars and bad cars of similar PP and BHP, and your r33 has its advantage in stability push hard in corners and block, block, block! The Nordschleife does have some straights - and almost-straights - offering plenty of possibilities to AI cars of brute strength and top speed. The challenge is in countering this with other means: we are some who enjoy ourselves by discovering low-PP cars who allow us to just hang on.

    Discover the last hidden gems of the r33 and have fun doing so.
  25. teryxred67


    United States
    Just beat it in a Superautobacks MR-S
  26. eran0004


    Back at Nürburgring, this time with my newfound love, the Milano Red Lamborghini Gallardo "Alpenrose".


    The car is stock except for the rear wing (downforce = 5) and I'm doing the race on RH tires.

    I'm halfway through the race at this point. The Lamborghini is a bit faster than the other cars, but not by a lot. From what I've seen I'm having a bit lower cornering speed, but a faster top speed. The gap is currently 2 minutes and I've lapped one car (that I've seen, might have passed someone in the pits as well).

    For my first stint I did 6 laps before refueling. I noticed that there were 15 liters remaining in the tank and with some quick math I figured that there would be enough fuel to do 7 laps, so for my second stint I aimed for that. I'm driving in cockpit view with all of the HUD turned off, except from the timing, so I'm using the fuel gauge on the dashboard to read the fuel. It's not as clear as the HUD, so as I started my 7th lap on stint 2 I felt that the needle was awfully close to zero. So for the 7th lap I tried to do as much "eco-driving" as possible, shifting early and lift the throttle sooner than usual. When I came up to Döttinger Höhe at the end of the lap I figured that if I only reached maximum speed it would be enough to roll into the pits in case I ran out of fuel, so I floored it and hoped for the best. I did reach the pits without running out of fuel though, but as the pit display popped up, the amount of fuel I could take on just switched from 99 liters to 100, so without the conservative driving on that last lap I would probably have got stuck* at Döttinger.

    (* Well, the car would still be able to do 80 km/h with no fuel, but that's cheating.)

    2 hours remaining of the race, I hope it's enough with one more pit stop, but if I've got bad luck when timing the finish I might have to do an extra lap, so maybe a splash 'n' dash will be required in the end.
  27. Sick Cylinder

    Sick Cylinder Premium

    Margin of defeat 2 minutes - Race Hard tyres, cockpit view, driving aids off except ABS 1
    Winning car Audi R8 LMS - 28 laps
    My car Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo - 28 Laps
    Third place car Amuse S2000 GT1 - 27
    4th - 26 Laps
    Most of the rest of the field completed 26 or 25 laps, the 12th placed car completed 24 laps (apologies for not remembering more detail)

    I originally did this event when I first got GT5 and decided to have another go while waiting for GT6. I thought I would share my thoughts so you can learn from my mistakes.

    I used a standard Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo fresh from the dealership with just an oil change and change to brake bias (7 front, 4 rear). I found the tyres took about a third of a lap to get up to temperature. They were good for the second lap, but got progressively worse from the third laps onwards. Best lap was 8.26, worst lap without pit stop was 8.50. Initially I was pitting on the 5th lap, which was the same as the lead car Audi).

    The lead car was faster and pitting on the same lap so I was continually losing time. I made numerous mistakes due to losses of concentration (phone calls, knocks on the door etc. ), I estimate that I lost at least one minute due to mistakes.

    If I get round to doing this event again, I will do the following things differently:

    1. Set up the diff to my preferred settings
    2. Do all 6 lap stints
    3. Do 2 laps of practice in the car before the race
    4. Only suspend the race and exit at the correct interval - I lost a lot of time with extra pit stops to suspend the race.
    5. Make fewer mistakes!

    It might be possible for me to get the win then.

    Overall - disappointing - an event creator is desperately needed so that cars can be evenly matched - cars should not be finishing 4 laps behind! Also within half a lap I was racing on my own and didn't see any other cars for ages - it could have been a lot of fun if the cars were close.
  28. nostradavor2


    Today I finally did it on this account and started my first N4 race but report will have to wait because I'm kind of disappointed that 458 Italia on RM tyres is just too much for poor s2000 turbo..
    However I still have some questions:
    1) Do aero parts affect tyre wear a lot?
    2) Does someone know how to load grid with both Audi (fast one) and s2000 turbo in it or whatever fastest grid there is

    Edit: I finished the race today since I was already 2+ hours in.. I didn't push car to the max but also didn't drive slowly.. I beat s2000 turbo by 1 min and 50 sec.. But I don't get why at the end it was me 28 laps and he was 27 laps.. Does car win when it's 0:00 or when it finishes last lap?

    However 458 can do some crazy times but again that turbo thing doesn't fall behind much when you slow down little bit.. My fastest lap was 8:12 (second lap after tyre change is fastest and 458 can do solid 5 laps on RM tyres)..

    I will try to find a grid with both audi and turbo and I think it could be fun race.. Obviously Ferrari loves fuel so it drinks ~70 L in 5 laps.. I'll need to calculate how much to take this tame because my pits will be 5 10 15 20 and 25...

    Edit2: I found a grid with both rabbits.. Italia is just to fast.. I can only pretend to be racing them.. Need to find more challenging car

    Edit3: I did it today with 430 Scuderia on RH tyres.. Car was stock but has wing (I forgot to adjust downforce so I don't know how much it contributed) . I always have rule to not touch anyone in any race and never go out of track.. And when lapping some car at 3:52 hrs I scratched my Ferrari.. Im so insane about this stuff that I almost retired.. Anyways this one I have replay and I make report (for myself obviously :p)
    I did it with a grid with both rabbits.. I was so pissed off when I realized how much slower scuderia is than italia.. Only on lap 5 when I went to pit I realized that I'm on RH and not RM tyres haha.. I used RH all race since I only had those and did best lap of 8:28.. But I wasn't pushing car really hard, and many laps I lost time because of traffic because I wanted not to touch anyone whole race (that's why I'm pissed about 3:52 and it was clearly my fault)... I really wish that in this endurance races was mechanical damage and if you really crash (not scratch as me) your car you can't continue or lose big amount of time and have to pit in..
    It was fun anyways . I have replay so report is coming years after last one here :p ... Bad thing was that I was still pitting when audi and turbo because I wanted to race and we were close all the time but almost never close enough to have some fun.. After that I pitted on 16 and 22 because I knew I'll have to finish 28 laps.. Scuderia consumes little bit less then Italia.. But I don't understand really than how much does Amuse and Audi consume (Because they are longer in pit than me and Italia can drink over 70 L / 5 laps) ...
    Anyways my second win in my second attempt in N4 . It was fun but if I'll do it again, I will do it with some other grid because I'm tired of beating s2000 and audi.. But will have to read this thread to see if there's some very equal grid...

    Ferrari FTW :) 458 on RM and 430 S on RH :)
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  29. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

    United States
    In which way?

    My experience has been that they don't affect tire wear much, they mostly affect higher-speed handling. In effect, aerodynamics help cars stick to the road with better grip, especially once they're over 80 mph or so. But I have never gotten very scientific about seeing if tire wear increases while driving the same car, with and without wings & spoilers attached.

    You don't absolutely need to have great aerodynamics to win this 4 hour race though. As you've noted, you did this race in a couple Ferraris. These can probably get equipped with aero parts right? But not an actual racing kit with tweakable aero parts.

    You just have to load and reload grids until you find the one you're looking for... maybe you've already done this. Each grid is repeatable though, at least. In other words, after you first start up your PS3, and load up the first grid, that first grid can be relocated every time you start up your Playstation. So can the second. And the third. Each time you reload each grid, each one will be the same, in the same sequence of loading.

    Hope that made sense. :lol: It doesn't appear that anybody has made a list of these grids in this thread, the way GT Sail did in his Grand Valley thread and somebody else did in the main Laguna Seca 200 Miles thread. But each repeats, is what I'm getting at.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
    nostradavor2 likes this.
  30. nostradavor2


    When I had aero parts installed I think tyre wear was not that big on 458.. Idk, maybe it's just my speculation... I think I was doing 5 laps on RM and had less oversteer on 5th lap because of tyres not being that much shredded .. As for the second thing, yes, I found grid with both Audi and Turbo .. You need to reload it 10-15 times.. I raced that grid on RH with Scuderia, it was still to easy to win.. Wanted to make a report but it was really boring race (and I wanted to like race with those 2 entire time) but I won it comfortably even tho only for like 10 secs but it was because I lowered tempo last few laps.. And that grid is also no good because Honda goes first immediately and than you catch it on like lap 10 and than Audi catches you and you can have maybe few fun laps (and only because I did 5 laps stops with 430 too) . Than Audi shows it's faster than Turbo so first part of the race you just time trial against honda abd second against Audi.. Also I did 5 10 16 and 22 stops on RH so even that just makes race blah... It would be perfect race if grid is like that all cars are close in performance.. Ai is actually not that bad (am saying it cause I'm playing GT6 atm and AI is horror) . .. I think I'll be back to N4 if I find some challenge in it or if someone wants to participate in this races again..
    Anyways, thanks for response
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019