Four Hours: The Nürburgring 4Hr Companion & Competition

  • Thread starter Famine
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GTsail290
I have re-ordered your grid with my prediction of the finishing order.
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I doubt the CarbonaRa is gonna beat the High End or the Amemiya. Remember - it pits every 4 laps, the Amemiya goes 7. That's 1.75 pitstops to 1 :eek: Reason for that is because the CarbonaRa is so wheelspinny probably.

Famine
Right now the Jag is in a lot of pain. The tyres are getting chewed badly and the fuel is being used so fast there ought to be a leak somewhere. I'm about 45s down on my Countach attempt - which had the Ruf CTR coming in second - which was effectively a three minute win, which leaves me fifteen seconds off the pace and I've done my fastest pitstop already.

Which is a bit of a sod.
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Ah, that's not good to hear. Sports Hards aren't really the best tyres for a powerful, heavy-ish supercar. But come on...at least it's...challenging...right? Right? Good luck, keep on running. ;)
 
The Carbon R is a slug too. The order they are in post one is their race speed order (except the ones at the bottom that have no accurate data yet - four of which are in this race!).

I'm pretty sure I can finish second - and if I can get any time ahead of the Ruf and preventing him from opening the taps, I can win. I think. I'm making some time back at the moment, but it's definitely stacked against me right now.

Edit: No, the Lexus just took me out at Antoniusbusche - 175mph PIT manouevre - so I've called it. I might rebuild the Jag's engine and give it another go at a higher PP.
 
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Famine

Edit: No, the Lexus just took me out at Antoniusbusche - 175mph PIT manouevre - so I've called it. I might rebuild the Jag's engine and give it another go at a higher PP.
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Yeah the AI will put you off in a heartbeat. And sometimes it seems purely malicious.
 
s2k2k3
Yeah the AI will put you off in a heartbeat. And sometimes it seems purely malicious.
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It happened 3 times to me today and I had a bloody tough fight keeping the car on the road. Rammed in the back! Three times in four hours!!!
 
A small race report from me. I don't know how to include all the data like average speed and such.. and I don't even know the exact finishing order. If someone could explain to me how I can extract such information, thanks.. or point me to a topic about this. Hopefully I won't have to watch the whole replay lol !

Opponents :

Amuse Nismo 380RS Super Leggera
Amuse S2000 GT1 '04
Amuse/Opera Performance
Opera Performance 350Z '04
HPA Motorsports stage II R32
High End Performance G37
NISMO Fairlady Z Z-tune (Z33) '03
NISMO Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32) '00
NISMO Skyline GT-T R-tune (R34) '99
Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
HKS CT230R '08

I've used the Toyota FT-86 Concept '09. Stock suspension etc. , no wing. Racing soft tyres.
224HP@1200kg: 420PP. No other modifications.

I did 4 pitstops : lap 6, lap 12, lap 18 and lap 23.
I refueled at first 3 pitstops, the last one just tyres.

The race took 26 laps and I finished first. The HKS CT230R came in 2nd position, I think about 51 seconds behind me. Behind the HKS CT230R was the NISMO Fairlady Z Z-tune and in 4th position was the Amuse S2000 GT1 '04.

It was a nice race and I had to push hard at some moments, the FT86 is really nice through the corners but it's topspeed is pretty low. The long straight on the Döttinger Höhe : 230km/u ... the long uphill section from Bergwerk through Kesselchen towards Mutkurve/Angstkurve : 190km/u max.

Next time I'll try 410-415PP.
 
I've just had a bit of luck. I started a practice run and found both the GT1 Turbo and LMS in the race. I decided to park and let them run the race.

I'll report on how they finished in the morning.

At the beginning of lap 3 the Amuse leads the LMS by a few seconds, but the Amuse started near the front and the LMS started at the rear and so had to pick his way through all the lap traffic. Both of them are WELL ahead of the 3rd place car, which is the IS-F Racing Concept.

I'll save the replay so I can check the pit sequence of the GT1 Turbo.

UPDATE: The GT1 Turbo beat the LMS, both on 28 laps. More info as I watch the replay.

I have the replay running right now but I'm at work. I've asked my wife to pause it at 3 hours so I can watch the final hour this evening.
 
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Michel4AGE
A small race report from me. I don't know how to include all the data like average speed and such.. and I don't even know the exact finishing order. If someone could explain to me how I can extract such information, thanks.. or point me to a topic about this. Hopefully I won't have to watch the whole replay lol !
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If you don't log your laptimes, then yes, you will.

The game doesn't actually record your finish time, so the only way to know precisely is to log your laptimes - I have a small portion of a spreadsheet set aside for doing this. So long as we know how far you've gone (number of laps finished), the time it took you to do it (you can guess within a second and even to within 10 seconds makes little difference to your average speed), and how far behind the AI finished (as above with guessing) I can work out the rest for you.

In your case all I'm missing is a total race time, give or take ten seconds.

shem
Report completed on page 6. Didn't win. :-(
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You're showing 25 laps completed and finishing just ahead of the R-tune? I'm assuming you finished 26 laps, because your average speed for that time would put you within a tenth of a mph of the fastest observed time for the R-tune, whereas 25 laps would put you 5mph behind the slowest observed time for it. 9'16 fast laps are also consistent with a 4hr 5 minute race time for 26 laps.
 
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Famine
You're showing 25 laps completed and finishing just ahead of the R-tune? I'm assuming you finished 26 laps
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Lap 25 is where my notes ran out, your calculations are most likely more accurate than mine. It could well have been 26 as the second half of the report was submitted a full 24 hours after the race with only my notebook as guidance.

I apologies for any discrepancies there my be. I had a hard time of making the notes and keeping them 100% accurate while trying to collect as much data as possible. The post should be correct for the most part other than, like/if you say, the total amount of laps completed. If the R-Tune's total lap count is 26, then mine must have also been 26.

Next attempt I'll keep to hard facts rather than adding commentary about the race to keep the figures true, commentary seems to get in the way. Plus I'll not be trying to race in an absolute underdog car!
 
Sod.

My first choice for the RS PP record is 10s too slow. Something else I encountered for lowering the SS PP record is 10s too slow and immensely twitchy. A third option - again, for SS PP lowering - is too expensive for me to gift into my main account.

Looks like I'm looking to run my reconditioned Jag in SH or find an alternative.
 
Shame you can't put in a 6L V12 with 4WD in to your XJ220 like they originally planned. Then you'd win easily. Instead you're stuck with a V6 RWD supercar. :(
 
I think I'll have to abandon the Jag. The fuel use and tyre wear are just too much, and when it gets snappy, it gets snappy. Tommy kaira ZZ-II is next up though :D

Edit: Smeg! Somehow I've improved by 15 seconds a lap in the ZZ-II and now it's too fast. It might just keep up with the Audi R8 LMS though... Hmm...
 
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Well since I finished my 1000km of Suzuka this is the next race for me. I'm still A-Spec level 31, but when I try it I'll either use a RUF CTR2 with RS (managed to get a 9:16 in, can do better), or my latest invention:

A Caterham Seven Fireblade '02 with a Supercharger and Race Exhausts, Intakes, Manifolds, Clutch, Flywheel, Catalytic Converter and a LSD, with standard Transmission (Close-Range made the ratios too close, I may use a Fully customisable one). I haven't tried it yet on the ring, but on Tsubuka I did a 58.1s lap time, quicker than most Skyline's etc. :)

Oh, and it has ~260BHP/364kg. That's 714BHP/tonne, with 600PP. :D
 
Famine
Edit: Smeg! Somehow I've improved by 15 seconds a lap in the ZZ-II and now it's too fast. It might just keep up with the Audi R8 LMS though... Hmm...
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Have a go with the S2000 GT1 Turbo first. Unless it is definitely too fast for that :( In which case, try for both, just for kicks. :D
 
C-ZETA
Have a go with the S2000 GT1 Turbo first. Unless it is definitely too fast for that :( In which case, try for both, just for kicks. :D
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The GT1 Turbo is just as fast as the LMS. In the race last night the GT1 beat the LMS. Tonight I'll watch the end of the replay and post race times.
 
Trying out my Caterham Sport. Just did a lap time of 9:12. I reckon with some fine-tuning of the Transmission and/or LSD and practice, I can get it around 9:06. (Not sure but I may need an Engine Rebuild and Chassis Rebuild if I haven't yet done one since the car has done 24,000+ miles). Also, based on real physics, the car should be good on MPG and tyres, but in GT5 who knows what may happen? Also the Supercharger may use a lot of fuel. :( It is however, very easy and very fun to drive. I love the brakes. Going from 160MPH down to 35MPH for the first corner in ~50m is very good braking! :) If all else fails I'll use the RUF CTR2.

Oh, and the Caterham isn't going to break any records. 688.35BHP/tonne, 254bhp, 369kg, 625PP and RS Tyres.

Question: Engine Rebuilds improve power and/or acceleration, but what do Chassis Rebuilds do? I read they can cause understeer, or is that Rigidity Improvement?

Just did an Engine Rebuild, did nothing. Seems I did one recently.
 
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Can't seem to go faster than 9:12 in my Caterham. Here's a picture of me really pushing hard coming up to Mutkurve. :)
kjStx.jpg
 
The Fireblade is not well suited to the ring. I've given it a spin and found it much slower than other cars of the same PP.
 
*wonders*

If my ZZ-II is pulling 8'44 laps on Sport Hards... what will it do on Comfort Softs...
 
Thing is, it's a clear 20 seconds faster than the XJ220 that I've been slaving over, for only a 15PP difference.

I've not been able to find a single thing - other than the S2000 I've already used - to beat the race on RS for 415PP or less. I've been trying to find some lower-end PP FWD cars too - there's only one FF on the board so far and that's there twice.
 
Famine
Thing is, it's a clear 20 seconds faster than the XJ220 that I've been slaving over, for only a 15PP difference.

I've not been able to find a single thing - other than the S2000 I've already used - to beat the race on RS for 415PP or less. I've been trying to find some lower-end PP FWD cars too - there's only one FF on the board so far and that's there twice.
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Well the Civic and Integra are no-brainers for FF cars. But maybe that's low-hanging fruit...

Odds are against me making a run in a FF car. I am "programmed" to run rear drive cars. FFs and AWDs simply compute for me. The first thing I do with any AWD is to set the torque bias to at least 80% rear. Try as I might I haven't sorted how to do that on an FF. :lol:

Although I do recall somebody suggesting somewhere driving it backwards... :dopey:
 
OK, Mini Report here:

The Amuse GT1 Turbo vs The Audi R8 LMS

Fastest Lap:

GT1 - 8'28.6
LMS - 8'26.3

Total Race Time

GT1 - 28 laps - 4:08:08
LMS - 28 laps - 4:08:12

The GT1 started in 6th (but was 3rd by turn 1) and the LMS started dead last. The GT1 had built around 15 seconds of lead before the LMS broke free of traffic. So you could say the GT1 had a 15 second head start, but the luck of where they caught lap traffic probably made more difference than that.

In the end these two cars are so exactly matched it's a coin toss. Both appear to get exactly the same fuel mileage. Both pitted every 5 laps with 0 rear tires left and 1/2 front tires left. The Amuse is SLIGHTLY easier on it's tires. The Audi is SLIGHTLY faster on new tires.

I was parked during this race.

EDIT:

I'm looking at having a run at the low hp record with both the GT1 and the LMS in the race. In testing at 150hp I am running 8'48. I'll do another test at 175hp. If I can hit 8'45 or better I think I'll have a go at it.
 
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s2k2k3
Well the Civic and Integra are no-brainers for FF cars. But maybe that's low-hanging fruit...
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There's an element of that, but there's two corollary issues with them. Primary is that they aren't fast enough without significant tuning - I'm trying to run stock cars and I'm trying to break 415PP. And the reason they aren't fast enough is, and I don't often say this, torque. There are several points on the 'Ring where you are going uphill and you have a choice of only one gear to do it, but the VTECs just don't have enough torque even when multiplied up through the 'box to pull it off.

The best stock-ish FFs I've tried so far are the Mitsubishi FTO GPX '99 and the FIAT Coupe Turbo Plus '00 - at 9'27 each. There's little coincidence that these are amongst the least understeery of the FFs.

The Gathers Drider Civic is, coincidentally, 415PP but it feels like a cheat so I'm avoiding it for now - same with the EK Civic RM (though the PP's higher - 441). I have a 420PP Eagle Talon (see the image in post 1) which is just not up for the job, along with a 421PP Nissan Cube (really). I'm going to try a few Celicas next - I know the TRD Sports M is a corker, but at 190hp, 1140kg and 405PP it needs some tweaking - and I've got a slightly tuned C4 VTS that Bob used in his early days.

Edit: I'm now at 420PP and 9'22s from everything. Looks like I'll be needing 440PP to make FWD work. Bah.

s2k2k3
Odds are against me making a run in a FF car. I am "programmed" to run rear drive cars. FFs and AWDs simply compute for me. The first thing I do with any AWD is to set the torque bias to at least 80% rear. Try as I might I haven't sorted how to do that on an FF. :lol:
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There's a couple of tricks to driving FWD cars.

Firstly, the brakes are much better, pound for pound, than RWD cars, with the exception of downhill braking zones - Kallenhard and the GP track turn 1. All that weight on the nose means a lot of available friction, but on the downhills it can lead to understeer - curse you, inertia!

Secondly, pick one that isn't a hog. A lot of the FWD cars understeer for fun. The DC5 Integra is a great exception, the FTO and FIAT I've used above are too. The T231 Celica is another. The Civic... isn't.

After that it's a question of technique. FWD cars work best with a very late turn-in, so get late on the brakes and make your turn a car length after you normally would. Hit the apex at the same point, so you get all your turning done in as short a time as possible, straighten the wheels up and give it beans. Most FWDs also "suffer" with lift-off oversteer - jumping off the gas mid-turn will take load off the already light back end and bring it around. This is good fun, but also helps kill understeer and get a lot of rotation very easily.


Edit: Okay, 9'08 on a sloppy lap with the ZZ-II and Comfort Softs... I think that's a race :D

Edit edit: Oh heck. It turns out that all laps with the ZZ-II on CSs are sloppy. This one's going to be tight like a [insert imaginative, obscene analogy here].
 
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Famine
Edit: Okay, 9'08 on a sloppy lap with the ZZ-II and Comfort Softs... I think that's a race :D
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Any lap I make on comfort tires can only generously be described as "sloppy". :dunce:

Please post a replay of at least your first lap. :lol:
 
Yes, I've just encountered that exact problem. I have no idea where this race is going, except largely forwards with a hint of sideways.

Edit: I am, currently 16s down on the same point as my S2000 race (the one I won by 7s) and the lead AI is the Mine's Skyline - ahead of the Ruf CTR2! If I'm lucky and all goes to plan, I should win by about 10s. If.
 
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