Fuji, Japanese Grand Prix 2007

  • Thread starter Thread starter peterjford
  • 320 comments
  • 17,647 views
Handbags from Webber there, you'd think he'd have cooled off a little since Sunday but sounds like he's twice as POed
 
Handbags from Webber there, you'd think he'd have cooled off a little since Sunday but sounds like he's twice as POed

He has - about Vettel. He now heated up against Hamilton :lol:
 
The crash did cost him a possible win, lest we forget. He was faster than Hamilton in the laps preceeding the second safety car.
 
True I suppose, but after the restart Hamilton had jumped on the pace again so he could've just left the two Red Bull team drivers in the dust, or rather spray.
 
Roo
The crash did cost him a possible win, lest we forget. He was faster than Hamilton in the laps preceeding the second safety car.
You sure about that? Do you have all the specific lap times for each driver, because the lap times I was watching off F1's official live timing service during the race clearly showed that on average, Hamilton was consistently outpacing everyone including Webber.

Are you possibly comparing lap times from laps where Hamilton had to slow down for traffic, or recovered from his being spun? Otherwise, looking at the lap times during the race, Hamilton was in fact well ahead of Webber, and the only reason he was close was due to all the Safety Car appearances.
 
I was just posting the lastest bit. I noticed the piece I posted, There was slight change to the story. As for Fernado's support, I'm not surprised seeing as he still demands the royal treatment and doesn't like the fact that he's two races away from having his championship taken away by a rookie.
Maybe it's just me, but as a double world champion he has a pretty good right to ask for a bit more than what he's getting. Maybe he's not irritated as hell having his championship taken away by a rookie* but having his championship taken away by his own team working against him, and even the FIA. Believe what you want to, but the rules haven't been the same for everyone this season.

Anyone here remember what happened when Benetton was found to be an illegal car in one race in 1994? Well, I do. They couldn't participate in the two following races. Now, tell me why McLaren only lost the constructors' points.

This is all stinking politics. The FIA desperately needs to have someone else than Ferrari, preferably a British driver in a British car as it's a British association, winning the championship. Even though it takes bending the rules very much. There is no justice in Hamilton, or Alonso for that matter, winning the championship this year. Maybe Hamilton didn't really have the information. But so what, Schumacher didn't build the illegal car in 1994 and still suffered because of it. Why isn't it like that now? Because it would look bad if Ferrari won again. Even if it would be the fair result.

* In my opinion, the only thing classifying Hamilton as a rookie is the fact that he drives his first year in F1. Usually a rookie is a guy that has driven something like a Formula Renault for a season or two and then jumps to the top class to see if he can match the best. Not one that has been extensively trained for the job for 12 years.
 
Otherwise, looking at the lap times during the race, Hamilton was in fact well ahead of Webber, and the only reason he was close was due to all the Safety Car appearances.
In fact, I'm fairly certain Webber's fastest lap time was still nearly a second slower than Hamilton's... so no, given all that I don't think Webber had a serious chance in winning the race.

I suspect his anger is largely due to the fact that he had a very good chance at finishing in 2nd which would have been his best result ever, and only his third time with a podium finish in his seven year career in F1... and likely a career that is close to finishing out.

But to be fair, it's not as if Webber had a chance at finishing second because he was the second best car/driver that day... and thus we should all feel terribly bad for him. The truth is he had a shot at 2nd because of all the problems and accidents the better car/drivers ahead of him had during the race.
 
How exactly have the FIA been working against Alonso?

I suppose the fact Hamilton is proving himself more than a match for Alonso has absolutely nothing to do with him looking likely to lose his title then. Silly me, thinking that it was part down to the racing done on the track.
 
You sure about that? Do you have all the specific lap times for each driver, because the lap times I was watching off F1's official live timing service during the race clearly showed that on average, Hamilton was consistently outpacing everyone including Webber.

Are you possibly comparing lap times from laps where Hamilton had to slow down for traffic, or recovered from his being spun? Otherwise, looking at the lap times during the race, Hamilton was in fact well ahead of Webber, and the only reason he was close was due to all the Safety Car appearances.

Now you mention it, I'm not so sure :dopey: Webber closed the gap down to 2 seconds (from what I don't know) before Alonso crashed - or rather that's what the ITV commentary mentioned. It stuck in my mind. It may well've been when Hamilton was slow/off the road.

Anyone here remember what happened when Benetton was found to be an illegal car in one race in 1994? Well, I do. They couldn't participate in the two following races. Now, tell me why McLaren only lost the constructors' points.

They weren't given a two race ban for having an illegal car. Michael Schumacher got a 2 race ban for ignoring the black flag (pit on the next lap) at Silverstone. He went on to finish and was disqualified. JJ Lehto to his place for the Italian and Portugese Grand Prix. Schumacher was also disqualified in Spa when, due to running the car too low, the wooden plank was found to be worn through by too much. At no point in 1994 were Benetton disqualified or banned for having an illegal car.

* In my opinion, the only thing classifying Hamilton as a rookie is the fact that he drives his first year in F1. Usually a rookie is a guy that has driven something like a Formula Renault for a season or two and then jumps to the top class to see if he can match the best. Not one that has been extensively trained for the job for 12 years.

How many drivers, other than Raikkonen, have come straight from Formula Renault?

Nico Rosberg had an identical path to F1 - the only difference being that he didn't have guidence from an F1 team. Did that mean he wasn't a rookie when he got fastest lap in Bahrain '06?
 
I think Webber was gaining at the time but only because he had less fuel than Hamilton.
 
Roo
How many drivers, other than Raikkonen, have come straight from Formula Renault?

Nico Rosberg had an identical path to F1 - the only difference being that he didn't have guidence from an F1 team. Did that mean he wasn't a rookie when he got fastest lap in Bahrain '06?

The reason people aren't accepting Hamilton as a "real" rookie is because he supposedly spent months (figuratively) in the McLaren/NASA/Gran Turismo 5½ simulator, which is supposedly so great that maybe in the future we can just make 21 copies of those and put them in a LAN and have the drivers race in them instead of the actual cars (safety first Max!).
 
...which I find odd, as Villeneuve had the same amount of testing - in an actual car - before his debut, had won the Indy 500 and Indycar championship the previous year and was still considered a rookie in 1996. Just as he's considered a rookie in NASCAR circles this year.

22 simulator racers? I wonder if it'll still be as hard to pass? :)
 
The reason people aren't accepting Hamilton as a "real" rookie is because he supposedly spent months (figuratively) in the McLaren/NASA/Gran Turismo 5½ simulator, which is supposedly so great that maybe in the future we can just make 21 copies of those and put them in a LAN and have the drivers race in them instead of the actual cars (safety first Max!).
:D

In all seriousness, I have found it interesting the number of times Hamilton has referred to having logged some time playing Formula One: Championship Edition on the PS3 to get some virtual practice in and help familiarize him with some of the tracks. He even brought it up again in an interview on SPEED TV's F1 Debrief and Inside Grand Prix. Hamilton also mentioned how he races his brother online... I wonder what Hamilton's PSN ID is? :)


While it's not Hamilton's... I wonder if Masa & Kimi have logged any time on this puppy dog:

20070519102143afa12.jpg


2007051910230983760.jpg


:)
 
I'll take the one with the sequential thank you.

I doubt they need anything that "realistic", I imagine a DS or Sixaxis is plenty good enough to learn the outlay of the track.
 
I just had a thought - I know, a rare occurence - that Danny will hate:

STR could've had 10 points this season, what with Vettel losing 6 at Fuji and Liuzzi putting a possible 4 into the Champion's Wall in Montreal whilst running 5th. They would've been 7th, 1 point behind Toyota. Instead, they're bottom of the table with 0.

Ouch.
 
Roo
I just had a thought - I know, a rare occurence - that Danny will hate:

STR could've had 10 points this season, what with Vettel losing 6 at Fuji and Liuzzi putting a possible 4 into the Champion's Wall in Montreal whilst running 5th. They would've been 7th, 1 point behind Toyota. Instead, they're bottom of the table with 0.

Ouch.

I should have stopped reading after the first line.


:nervous:
 
But they'll beat McLaren....
 
Handbags from Webber there, you'd think he'd have cooled off a little since Sunday but sounds like he's twice as POed

Can you blame him though? Webber finally has a chance to finish a race . . . I bet he was pissed that yet again he had another retirement, much less he could have been on the podium. :lol:

:D

In all seriousness, I have found it interesting the number of times Hamilton has referred to having logged some time playing Formula One: Championship Edition on the PS3 to get some virtual practice in and help familiarize him with some of the tracks. He even brought it up again in an interview on SPEED TV's F1 Debrief and Inside Grand Prix. Hamilton also mentioned how he races his brother online... I wonder what Hamilton's PSN ID is? :)


While it's not Hamilton's... I wonder if Masa & Kimi have logged any time on this puppy dog:

20070519102143afa12.jpg


2007051910230983760.jpg


:)

I will also take one of those please.
 
Anyone here remember what happened when Benetton was found to be an illegal car in one race in 1994? Well, I do. They couldn't participate in the two following races. Now, tell me why McLaren only lost the constructors' points.
As has already been pointed out your memory of exactly what happened with the Benetton is more than a little cloudy here, as it is quite obviously a different situation.

The two race ban was issued to Schumacher only (not the team) for blatantly ignoring a black flag, one given for overtaking on the parade lap (a fairly unsafe thing to do in a year that was focused on safety after the two deaths at Imola that no one will ever forget) . Beneton's punishment for this was a $50,000 fine for failing to obey race official's. Its also worth noting that the clerk of the course (Pierre Aumonier) also had his licence suspended for a year for his poor handling of the situation (he failed to send Schumacher to the back of the grid for the overtaking offence as he should have done).

In addition to that it was also found that the Benetton car's were fitted with illegal 'launch control' systems at the Imola (punishment = $100,000); they also removed the fuel filter from the re-fuleing rig at Hockenheim, the same rig that then erupted in flames while Verstappen's car was refuleing, launching the car into the air (punishment = none). Finally at Spa the team was found to have run the car too low, as shown by wear to the plank (punishment = Schumacher was disqualified).

Now here we have Benetton being proven of rule infringements left right and centre in '94 and the total punishment for the team was a fine. Schumacher lost point from one race (for being caught in an illegal car) and banned from two races for his own stupidity.

Now contrast that with McLaren who have not actually been shown to have used any of the Ferrari data, have co-operated with the FIA (which is quite different to Benetton in '94 who appealed almost all of the above and Schumacher who had, in an open letter at the start of the season, described the FIA as in-competent), who end up with the whole of the 2007 season result wiped out, given the single biggest fine in sporting history and will be forced to prove there 2008 car is Ferrari free before they will be able to race next year.



This is all stinking politics. The FIA desperately needs to have someone else than Ferrari, preferably a British driver in a British car as it's a British association, winning the championship. Even though it takes bending the rules very much. There is no justice in Hamilton, or Alonso for that matter, winning the championship this year. Maybe Hamilton didn't really have the information. But so what, Schumacher didn't build the illegal car in 1994 and still suffered because of it. Why isn't it like that now? Because it would look bad if Ferrari won again. Even if it would be the fair result.
Sorry but you are joking here I hope.

The FIA biased against Ferrari? I think you will find that common opinion has it the other way around (even Murray Walker described them as 'Ferrari Assistance International'), let me ask you about two little instances with Ferrari so far this year. Staring with the fixed wheel covers they claim are for brake cooling, quite strange then that Racecar Engineering carried out aero tests on these (Vol 17 No 10) and found they have a significant role in drag reduction, with limited help on brake cooling, now that would make them an aerodynamic part fitted outside the areas allowed in the technical regulations. I'm also interested to see what (if anything and I doubt it will be anything) happens about Ferrari ignoring the e-mail regarding the use of the 'super-wet' tyres for the start of Fuji; now they claim they didn't not get the e-mail in time to fit them to the car in time for the start, rather strange given that every other team did.

I have to say I find the entire idea that the FIA are biased against Ferrari quite amusing.



* In my opinion, the only thing classifying Hamilton as a rookie is the fact that he drives his first year in F1. Usually a rookie is a guy that has driven something like a Formula Renault for a season or two and then jumps to the top class to see if he can match the best. Not one that has been extensively trained for the job for 12 years.
What!!!!!!!!

The only thing needed to qualify Hamilton as a rookie in F1 is that its his first year in F1, the same criteria that qualifies any first season driver in any other championship as a rookie. He may well have a far better car than most rookies would ever get the chance to start with, but he has also used his ability to match his far from rookie team mate, Hamilton may well have had 12 years getting trained for this, but he also had to have the talent to survive those 12 years and even with them this was the first year he had the chance to race an F1 car against the grid (which I believe you will find qualifies him as a rookie).

Arguably Hamilton had less real F1 seat time than a lot of F1 rookies, given that he did not go through the common route of test driver first, given that he came straight from GP2; another series he did remarkably well in since his rookie year.


Regards


Scaff
 
Staring with the fixed wheel covers they claim are for brake cooling, quite strange then that Racecar Engineering carried out aero tests on these (Vol 17 No 10) and found they have a significant role in drag reduction, with limited help on brake cooling, now that would make them an aerodynamic part fitted outside the areas allowed in the technical regulations.

Those are legal due to a loophole in the regulations. As long as they provide some form of brake cooling they would be considered air ducts and then you can go wild and do anything you want. :p

Technical Regulations
3.15 Aerodynamic influence :
With the exception of the cover described in Article 6.5.2 (when used in the pit lane) and the ducts described in Article 11.4, any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance :
- Must comply with the rules relating to bodywork.
- Must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom).
- Must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.

11.4 Air ducts :
Air ducts around the front and rear brakes will be considered part of the braking system and shall not protrude beyond :
- a plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm above the horizontal centre line of the wheel ;
- a plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm below the horizontal centre line of the wheel ;
- a vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by 120mm toward the centre line of the car.

Furthermore, when viewed from the side the ducts must not protrude forwards beyond the periphery of the tyre or backwards beyond the wheel rim.

All measurements will be made with the wheel held in a vertical position.
 
Roo
I just had a thought - I know, a rare occurence - that Danny will hate:

STR could've had 10 points this season, what with Vettel losing 6 at Fuji and Liuzzi putting a possible 4 into the Champion's Wall in Montreal whilst running 5th. They would've been 7th, 1 point behind Toyota. Instead, they're bottom of the table with 0.

Ouch.
I should have stopped reading after the first line.


:nervous:
This has me wondering if Danachronism will be working on another version of his 'laser-eyes' avatar.

In all seriousness, I have found it interesting the number of times Hamilton has referred to having logged some time playing Formula One: Championship Edition on the PS3 to get some virtual practice in and help familiarize him with some of the tracks. He even brought it up again in an interview on SPEED TV's F1 Debrief and Inside Grand Prix. Hamilton also mentioned how he races his brother online... I wonder what Hamilton's PSN ID is? :)
Makes me wonder how many of the other F1 drivers have been doing the same thing this season. And what they might do for a 2008 version of F1:CE.

While it's not Hamilton's... I wonder if Masa & Kimi have logged any time on this puppy dog:

20070519102143afa12.jpg


2007051910230983760.jpg


:)
Very nice. It has me wondering who the people were who made these two racesim seats. And I take it they're pretty expensive as well. Maybe at least $1,000?
 
:D

In all seriousness, I have found it interesting the number of times Hamilton has referred to having logged some time playing Formula One: Championship Edition on the PS3 to get some virtual practice in and help familiarize him with some of the tracks. He even brought it up again in an interview on SPEED TV's F1 Debrief and Inside Grand Prix. Hamilton also mentioned how he races his brother online... I wonder what Hamilton's PSN ID is? :)


While it's not Hamilton's... I wonder if Masa & Kimi have logged any time on this puppy dog:

20070519102143afa12.jpg


2007051910230983760.jpg


:)

Hmmmm......Nice! :drool: Anyone knows where to get it? :D I also wonder what is his PSN ID, maybe even organize a race with him and Ferrari? 💡
 
Those are legal due to a loophole in the regulations. As long as they provide some form of brake cooling they would be considered air ducts and then you can go wild and do anything you want. :p

No problem with the regulations at all, but the actual degree of brake coolng them provide (if any) is still open to debate, and more importantly how the regulations on brake ducts has been interpreted in this case. I have to wonder if they would have been found acceptable if someone other than Ferrari had used them first.

As a counter point take a look at the Renault Mass-damper issue of last year, from a technical point a mass damper will have an effect on a cars aero balance, but only slightly more so than a standard damper will. The principal purpose of the mass damper was to damp the spring rate generated by the tyre sidewalls, something it did very well and is a function that standard dampers can not acheive. Yet they were banned outright, following rumoured complaints from Ferrari (who did not use mass damper technology), again one has to wonder what the situation would have been if the positions were reversed.


Regards

Scaff
 
Ah well over all it just goes to show that world champion-elects aren't allowed to warm their breaks under safety cars any more.

On a side note...even if it's Ferrari-fied...I have got to get me one of those set ups!
 
Bubble bath is.
 
The FIA hearing has finished with no penalty for Hamilton and Vettel gets his reduced to a reprimand.

Autosport
McLaren's Formula One championship leader Lewis Hamilton escaped sanction on Friday after a stewards' enquiry into his driving at last weekend's Japanese Grand Prix, the governing body FIA said.

Toro Rosso's Sebastian Vettel, who collided with Red Bull's Mark Webber in that race while following Hamilton behind the safety car, had a 10-place penalty on the Chinese Grand Prix starting grid replaced with a reprimand.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63039


Scaff
 
Back