Garage Showdowns! Join Discussion to Make Future Events Better!

[nd 4 holden spd]

So that seals it, DRT has officially won this Showdown.

Even though DRT had more or less already won, I'm sure the NTSC races were still fun yes?

 

[Ravenmaven]

So that seals it, DRT has officially won this Showdown.

Even though DRT had more or less already won, I'm sure the NTSC races were still fun yes?

Yes. A lot less punters than last weekend. Some sick fast Amuses as well.

 

[stealthwinner]

congratulations to digital racecraft for pulling in the victory. props!

 

[Ravenmaven]

congratulations to digital racecraft for pulling in the victory. props!

Thank you.

Hope to race your garage again in the next tuner challenge.

 

[Dragonistic]

Congrats to DRT, knew with the Dragon behind the wheel you was guaranteed a PAL victory, and if any thing went wrong with Dragonistic being punted, knew Ravenmaven would take the win instead, both excellent drivers in this car on that track...well done guys

It ain't over til the checkered flag flies, nothing was guaranteed particularly in one of the races in the finals, myself and Raven got punted, unfortunately so did Timp, we got a bit of a lucky break there. Thank you for the compliment though

Apologies to all of you guy's, really sorry, but I wasn't normally supposed to be here home this week end (lot's of work all week & weekend too) but finally was there this morning...

Just all accept my sincere apologies for not being fully able to participate.

No need to apolagise Wayne, you made an unneccessary effort and that deserves some respect. Shame you couldn't finish the event, but big thanks just for that effort, regardless of the outcome.

I'm sure the NTSC races were still fun yes?

Let's hope so, at the end of the day, thats what this should be all about Another thanks to you holden, for 1) organising this event 2) doing it as well as can be expected with the current resources and 3) just generally for all your work

 

[Apollo87]

I'm sure the NTSC races were still fun yes?

Dunno about the second race but I had a blast last weekend, thanks for organizing all of this N4HS it's one hell of an event.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

My pleasure guys. I don't know if we'll have another one until the "Fall Update", which I'm hoping isn't far away anyway. Hopefully we can do a new to the game car and track combo. Unless of course get a low PP event (500-600 PP on S3 tyres and I wouldn't be able to resist.)

 

[NLxAROSA]

Unless of course get a low PP event (500-600 PP on S3 tyres and I wouldn't be able to resist.)

We could do a low PP event in one of the high PP races, in case the fall update is actually the release of GT5 in 2010.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

We could do a low PP event in one of the high PP races, in case the fall update is actually the release of GT5 in 2010.

I'll consider it, for now I must rest.

 

[Ravenmaven]

This was a fun event. It was my first full participation aside from driving a Dutch Customs SRT 10 in the Fuji Challenge. Big thanks to holden for organizing another tuner showdown. 👍

I could not help but notice that there were a few issues with the event as in the past that could be smoothed out to make this series even better. It is not my intention to step on holden's toes as this is his series. But rather make a few suggestions based on race feedback gathered in the pages of this here thread. And some of my own observations of course.

Start Times: I live in a huge North American country with no less than 5 time zones. This event has had racers from all over Europe, Australia and South America. Using the world time clock converter has not made this easy for whatever reason. I suggest that when entrants post their intention to race, they be required to post their location and current time in the thread (the thread always shows the actual date and time in the post). That way holden or an event assistant can post actual date and start times for individual countries and or racers.

Number of Cars: I think it was Ardius that suggested in a earlier post that we limit the number of cars for these events. With growing participation of new garages this makes sense. Expecting each garage to field 3 or 4 cars to make the event "big" and more competitive imo is unrealistic at this point. It's hard enough for some garages to get 1 car out when the actual races start. My suggestion is to limit the teams to 2 cars each. If 5 garages compete, that's plenty of competition to make the event a success. More communication via pm between drivers and garage owners might boost attendance for participation as well.

Points: Again, another Ardius suggestion that I feel is valid. A F1 type points system that is universal and makes competing an incentive in the lower order. It also allows anyone that can count to 10 the opportunity to figure out the points for each race. Up to this point, things have been a bit arbitrary. Depending on how many cars show up etc.

Make up races: One thing that I noticed caused a problem. The makeup race for division 1 was held 1 hour before the start of the finals. This is clearly not enough time between events. Mild protest's were voiced after the race conclusion and could not be resolved to satisfaction before the start of the finals. Critical error There should be sufficient time between races for issues and or further re-races to be resolved.

Protests/Stewardship: In case of on track conflict there should be an available independant party to hear protests and or concerns via pm to resolve race issues in a timely manner. This point will require some discussion I'm sure.

I feel that once some of the issues have been resolved this event will be even more fun for holden to organize and the tuners and racers to compete in.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

You're not treading on my toes at all, this is the tuners' event, not mine personally, I just run the thing.
All your points are valid, right now Top Gear Australia is about to air their first episode so I will come back and address your suggestions.

This was a fun event. It was my first full participation aside from driving a Dutch Customs SRT 10 in the Fuji Challenge. Big thanks to holden for organizing another tuner showdown. 👍


I could not help but notice that there were a few issues with the event as in the past that could be smoothed out to make this series even better. It is not my intention to step on holden's toes as this is his series. But rather make a few suggestions based on race feedback gathered in the pages of this here thread. And some of my own observations of course.

Start Times: I live in a huge North American country with no less than 5 time zones. This event has had racers from all over Europe, Australia and South America. Using the world time clock converter has not made this easy for whatever reason. I suggest that when entrants post their intention to race, they be required to post their location and current time in the thread (the thread always shows the actual date and time in the post). That way holden or an event assistant can post actual date and start times for individual countries and or racers.

This actually is a really good idea. It could be possible that if people could tell me their exact time of day at the time of their entry post, I could put what the exact time of day/date will be for them when the races start.

Number of Cars: I think it was Ardius that suggested in a earlier post that we limit the number of cars for these events. With growing participation of new garages this makes sense. Expecting each garage to field 3 or 4 cars to make the event "big" and more competitive imo is unrealistic at this point. It's hard enough for some garages to get 1 car out when the actual races start. My suggestion is to limit the teams to 2 cars each. If 5 garages compete, that's plenty of competition to make the event a success. More communication via pm between drivers and garage owners might boost attendance for participation as well.

This would however severely limit the number of people that could race. Organising divisions seems easier than organising two races, plus people get more races this way. Or, with 2 seprate races , each garage fielding 2 people a race, there would be no need for a ladder. It would make it more of a Showdown rather than a championship imo, and could mean less organising and getting to race every other garage, as there wouldn't be divisions like what we have now.

Points: Again, another Ardius suggestion that I feel is valid. A F1 type points system that is universal and makes competing an incentive in the lower order. It also allows anyone that can count to 10 the opportunity to figure out the points for each race. Up to this point, things have been a bit arbitrary. Depending on how many cars show up etc.

I don't know the F1 points system. What I do know, is that with only 2 people a race expected to show up (maybe 4 in total for the Showdown? Have 2 races), we could forget that old "points will only be awarded to a number of people from each garage equal to the number of people from the garage with the least racers" crap and make a more universal points system for each race regardless of participants showing up.

Make up races: One thing that I noticed caused a problem. The makeup race for division 1 was held 1 hour before the start of the finals. This is clearly not enough time between events. Mild protest's were voiced after the race conclusion and could not be resolved to satisfaction before the start of the finals. Critical error There should be sufficient time between races for issues and or further re-races to be resolved.

One of the unfortunates of crazy time zones I think. It's hard to find times and days of the week that a high number of people can race. That time people were bound to be around the Finals anyway, so I used that time slot. I wasn't expecting issues but due to the bad quality of the online racing we currently have I think we can just assume things will go wrong now and start planning in advance.

Protests/Stewardship: In case of on track conflict there should be an available independant party to hear protests and or concerns via pm to resolve race issues in a timely manner. This point will require some discussion I'm sure.

I feel that once some of the issues have been resolved this event will be even more fun for holden to organize and the tuners and racers to compete in.

I don't know who would be a Steward, and unless they can have all eyes at all places of the track, it'd be hard for them to make judgement without seeing the incident. All they'd hear is 2 sides of the story.

 

[Dragonistic]

Alot of valid suggestions, but (at least with the current resources) this event should be kept as a generally fun event before we start having issues with tuners selecting drivers for their skill and experience instead of just going out there and having fun.

Until private rooms come about and such like, I think we should stick how we are. The points system may be inconsistent, but say 1 driver is alone V 2 others, if the 2 man team were award points each, even if the lone driver wins, they still get less points overall which seems kinda unfair if you ask me. Universal points systems can only be adopted once the number of participants becomes consistent I reckon.

As for the idea of a steward, the 'steward' could just follow the business end of the race, sure they'd miss some things, but it would increase the chance of a witness being around (other drivers particpating may also see incidents). As for who could be a steward, you'd need someone fast, consistent and with a sense of fairplay and unbiased, am I not the perfect candidate as I've only entered as a free lance driver? I understand the rules and regs involved, can keep up with most of the drivers on track (particularly if you race say 600PP cars in the 750 online). I dont mean to 'big myself up' but I think I fit the bill quite well. Particularly as I own a tuning garage myself which doesn't participate, so I have no alliances at all.

 

[Apollo87]

Start Times: I live in a huge North American country with no less than 5 time zones. This event has had racers from all over Europe, Australia and South America. Using the world time clock converter has not made this easy for whatever reason. I suggest that when entrants post their intention to race, they be required to post their location and current time in the thread (the thread always shows the actual date and time in the post). That way holden or an event assistant can post actual date and start times for individual countries and or racers.

Well as for the times I personally use this link as it shows your time in relation to EST time and GMT time which are the ones we use here at the showdown so I think it would be easier if each member caters to look for the time for himself, with this link it is specially easy.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Alot of valid suggestions, but (at least with the current resources) this event should be kept as a generally fun event before we start having issues with tuners selecting drivers for their skill and experience instead of just going out there and having fun.

Until private rooms come about and such like, I think we should stick how we are. The points system may be inconsistent, but say 1 driver is alone V 2 others, if the 2 man team were award points each, even if the lone driver wins, they still get less points overall which seems kinda unfair if you ask me. Universal points systems can only be adopted once the number of participants becomes consistent I reckon.

As for the idea of a steward, the 'steward' could just follow the business end of the race, sure they'd miss some things, but it would increase the chance of a witness being around (other drivers particpating may also see incidents). As for who could be a steward, you'd need someone fast, consistent and with a sense of fairplay and unbiased, am I not the perfect candidate as I've only entered as a free lance driver? I understand the rules and regs involved, can keep up with most of the drivers on track (particularly if you race say 600PP cars in the 750 online). I dont mean to 'big myself up' but I think I fit the bill quite well. Particularly as I own a tuning garage myself which doesn't participate, so I have no alliances at all.

With 2 drivers a race per garage, the numbers competing would be pretty consistent. Oh well, it still makes things hard when disconnections arise I guess.

I'm happy for you to be a steward if you're up for it. I hear the new update (with possible new cars) is coming first part of October, so I'll keep everyone posted with what's happening concerning Showdown 5.

I'm still happy so hear suggestions, I'll be looking at ways to incorporate current ones into the event.

 

[Ravenmaven]

As for the idea of a steward, the 'steward' could just follow the business end of the race, sure they'd miss some things, but it would increase the chance of a witness being around (other drivers particpating may also see incidents). As for who could be a steward, you'd need someone fast, consistent and with a sense of fairplay and unbiased, am I not the perfect candidate as I've only entered as a free lance driver? I understand the rules and regs involved, can keep up with most of the drivers on track (particularly if you race say 600PP cars in the 750 online). I dont mean to 'big myself up' but I think I fit the bill quite well. Particularly as I own a tuning garage myself which doesn't participate, so I have no alliances at all.

Yeah, just someone to hear both sides of a protest and make some kind of reasonably fair ruling so the competition can resume without lengthy delays and debate. Kind of "informal" yet binding.

Well as for the times I personally use this link as it shows your time in relation to EST time and GMT time which are the ones we use here at the showdown so I think it would be easier if each member caters to look for the time for himself, with this link it is specially easy.

As I said in the earlier post it still confuses me lol. Another alternative is to post a countdown to race time once dates and times have been decided. A week before and perhaps a couple of days before. Indicating day's, hours and minutes to event time.

With 2 drivers a race per garage, the numbers competing would be pretty consistent. Oh well, it still makes things hard when disconnections arise I guess.

I'm happy for you to be a steward if you're up for it. I hear the new update (with possible new cars) is coming first part of October, so I'll keep everyone posted with what's happening concerning Showdown 5.

I'm still happy so hear suggestions, I'll be looking at ways to incorporate current ones into the event.

The two driver thing may sound a bit "official". I suppose the best thing to hope for is each garage to have as many drivers as possible sign up, then have at least two per garage actually show up.

 

[Dragonistic]

I'm happy for you to be a steward if you're up for it. I hear the new update (with possible new cars) is coming first part of October, so I'll keep everyone posted with what's happening concerning Showdown 5.

Sure, if I'm available and not needed to fill in for anybody, I'll gladly take up the position.

 

[Ardius]

I don't know the F1 points system. What I do know, is that with only 2 people a race expected to show up (maybe 4 in total for the Showdown? Have 2 races), we could forget that old "points will only be awarded to a number of people from each garage equal to the number of people from the garage with the least racers" crap and make a more universal points system for each race regardless of participants showing up.

The F1 points system makes the podium positions worthwhile finishing positions while at the same time allowing drivers lower down the order to have something to fight over, especially when there are many drivers of varying skill who might not ever be able to win a podium place:
1st: 10pts
2nd: 8pts
3rd: 6pts
4th: 5pts
5th: 4pts
and so on to 8th: 1pt
I would also suggest giving points for fastest laps, pole positions and leading 1 lap, but these things are impossible or hard to judge at the moment until we have private rooms and get rid of RBE.

Also, keeping track of various statistics keeps other interest in the showdowns, such as running stats of total points, wins, etc. To give people even more reason to race and compete. This is fairly easy to do if you keep up to date with the results each showdown.

As for limiting the numbers of drivers, I still think this is a good idea, in such a way that the numbers of drivers each garage can have is the lowest amount any one garage has plus 1. So, you assign people to garages 1 at a time, once every garage has 2 drivers, they can have 3, and so on. Rather than several people signing up to on garage at once and then being forced to move.
In algebra terms:
Lowest number of drivers in any one garage: a
Number of drivers allowed in all garages: b
So:
b = a+1
Although this wouldn't help garage owner to driver relations, it would help balance the driving skills per garage a bit.

 

[Apollo87]

As for limiting the numbers of drivers, I still think this is a good idea, in such a way that the numbers of drivers each garage can have is the lowest amount any one garage has plus 1. So, you assign people to garages 1 at a time, once every garage has 2 drivers, they can have 3, and so on. Rather than several people signing up to on garage at once and then being forced to move.
In algebra terms:
Lowest number of drivers in any one garage: a
Number of drivers allowed in all garages: b
So:
b = a+1
Although this wouldn't help garage owner to driver relations, it would help balance the driving skills per garage a bit.

I think this might help when implementing the F1 point system, or at least let me use this idea to explain something, what if we apply the F1 point system but as there is always different number of drivers on each garage it could be donde that you only take into consideration the best *lowest number of drivers in any one garage* for each garage, for example

Garage A: 3 drivers
Garage B: 2 drivers
Garage C: 4 drivers
Garage D: 4 drivers

So when the race is finished you only take into consideration the best 2 drivers of each garage as the lowest number of drivers on any of them is 2, lets say they finish like this:

1st Garage B
2nd Garage D
3rd Garage A
4th Garage D
5th Garage D
6th GarageB
7th Garage C
8th Garage D
And so on . . . . .the point would rank up like this:

1st Garage B 10 points
2nd Garage D 8 points
3rd Garage A 6 points
4th Garage D 5 points
5th Garage D *no points*
6th GarageB 4 points
7th Garage C 3 points
8th Garage D *no points*


Dunno if I made my point clear and even so if it's a worthy one, I mean yeah some people might feel a little left out but perhaps it could help with the point system and still balance the number of drivers.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Sure, if I'm available and not needed to fill in for anybody, I'll gladly take up the position.

Excellent, you're officially an official.

I think this might help when implementing the F1 point system, or at least let me use this idea to explain something, what if we apply the F1 point system but as there is always different number of drivers on each garage it could be donde that you only take into consideration the best *lowest number of drivers in any one garage* for each garage, for example

Garage A: 3 drivers
Garage B: 2 drivers
Garage C: 4 drivers
Garage D: 4 drivers

So when the race is finished you only take into consideration the best 2 drivers of each garage as the lowest number of drivers on any of them is 2, lets say they finish like this:

1st Garage B
2nd Garage D
3rd Garage A
4th Garage D
5th Garage D
6th GarageB
7th Garage C
8th Garage D
And so on . . . . .the point would rank up like this:

1st Garage B 10 points
2nd Garage D 8 points
3rd Garage A 6 points
4th Garage D 5 points
5th Garage D *no points*
6th GarageB 4 points
7th Garage C 3 points
8th Garage D *no points*


Dunno if I made my point clear and even so if it's a worthy one, I mean yeah some people might feel a little left out but perhaps it could help with the point system and still balance the number of drivers.

We already do that minus the F1 points system.