General Workout Routines and Questions

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Der Alta, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

    Messages:
    2,810
    Location:
    Australia
    Depends what cardio you're doing. Don't go on the treadmill, it's a waste of time. Go walking/running outside, or better yet, swim. What won't do much is going into a weight room and jumping on cable machines, when you should be focused on losing weight and gaining a good base, not isolating a few muscles and creating imbalances.

    If you can't do a push up, start with planks and work your way from there. I've never met a PT who would say push ups are bad for beginners. Also pretty much all gyms should have an assisted pull up/dip machine, which can help you work your way up to handling your bodyweight doing dips and pull ups. I agree with Johnny about the 5x5 free weight routines. Heavy free weights work wonders for mass gain.
     
  2. Omnis

    Omnis Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    37,974
    Location:
    United States
    A pushup done incorrectly is not worth doing. Not when you have a good chest press machine sitting there.

    Mike, you're really hung up on the whole "isolation" and "imbalances" thing. I don't want to be a jerk, but, you're wrong. If you don't believe me, that's cool. I'm ok with you being set in your ways, but I just wanted it out there that there is another point of view. I don't really care to argue about it further because you're not going to change my mind. But now that it's all out there, let's move on from this topic.
     
  3. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

    Messages:
    2,810
    Location:
    Australia
    Chest press machines don't work anywhere near the amount of muscles that push ups do. I'm not wrong about cable machines isolating muscles, that's what they're designed to do, which is why it's a lot easier to do chest presses on a cable machine than it is to do dumbell bench presses, you're working far fewer muscles. I don't honestly care if you don't believe me, because I've learned what I know from professionals, and applied it to great success.
     
  4. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    And this is the reason why sports physicians offices are filled with muscular people with slipping discs, torn ligaments and ground-off joints.

    If you have strong muscles and weak stabilizers and / or muscular imbalances you will ruin your joints over the long run because you can't stabilize the heavy weights properly which results in improper and excessive strain and wear on the joints. You might not even notice that...for a while.
    Thats the reason why so many ''I want to get BIG dood!'' disco lifters have ruined backs and trashed (permanently!) shoulders after only a couple of years lifting.

    And if you are too heavy for body weight exercises you should first focus mainly on cardio and dropping your weight before going rambo on weights.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
    Mike_grpA likes this.
  5. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

    Messages:
    2,810
    Location:
    Australia
    I've met a fair few of those "disco lifters" you referred to. A friend of mine, who is really bulky and looks quite intimidating, is around the same weight as me, but much bulkier in the arms. He can do 40kg dumbell curls, but literally can't do one single pull up lol.

    He did say that his only goal was to look tanky though, so I just said "well I'd consider it a waste of time". I'm into my martial arts, so function definitely has to follow form so to speak. I'd rather look much weaker than I am than looking tough and being useless at training lol.
     
    Michael88 likes this.
  6. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    Yeah, most of those ''lifts for show'' dudes only work out the very visible muscle groups,. They usually have big chests, big arms but almost always lack back and leg muscle development which leads to disappointing results in the ''full body strength'' category.

    Personally I only care about strength and health because I find those two things more impressive than just looking bulky. I don't care too much about my looks and getting my BF percentage as low as humanly possible, I care about the numbers on the plates and the stability of my body. My exercise schedule contains many multi joint free weight exercises but with reps in the 5 range to get a good balance between CNS strength and muscle development. Also I have days with 1-rep max weight lifts to improve my technique and again for CNS development.

    Today I'm going to do:

    Deadlift raw: 4 sets 355 lbs 8 reps
    Deadlift raw: 5 sets 485 lbs 1 rep
    Lunges: 4 Sets 190lbs 8-6 reps
    Front squats (finisher): 3 sets 200lbs 6 reps
     
    Mike_grpA likes this.
  7. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

    Messages:
    2,810
    Location:
    Australia
    Yeah most of the guys I know like this do it to try impress the ladies as sad as that sounds lol. But, the guy with the mega biceps has a family, so I don't know why he even goes to the gym, because it's definitely not to get fitter or properly stronger. I didn't mention he's also a heavy smoker lol.

    I have a family too, but my lovely girlfriend fell for me before I started going to the gym. My motivation was wanting to get back into JKD and Muay Thai, and to become the role model my son deserves, so I quit smoking and started going to the gym when he was born.
     
    Michael88 likes this.
  8. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    Its nice to see someone so committed to his family, sadly a rare character trait nowadays. :tup:

    About looks, I don't want to start with stereotypes but if there is one thing I've noticed since I've bulked up its that I'm now (physically) attracting the wrong kind of women lol. Thats the only downside to lifting which I've noticed so far. :guilty:
     
    Mike_grpA likes this.
  9. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

    Messages:
    2,810
    Location:
    Australia
    I know what you mean mate, the struggle is real :lol:.

    About family, I was born quite late in my parents life, so while I'm only 29, my father is 75, so I was raised a bit more "old school" than a lot of people my age. Family is the most important thing. My son is my life, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I never knew what true love was until I met him. That kind of love is stronger than I've felt for anyone. I'd literally take a bullet for him. :)
     
  10. Omnis

    Omnis Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    37,974
    Location:
    United States
    And those muscular dudes are all probably personal trainers. :lol: I'll bet at least a few of them are. There goes that appeal to PT argument.

    99% of back injuries come from spinal flexion and extension under load over time. Especially over a lifetime of unsupported sit ups or crunches. The back is not a prime mover. Every day of my life I see people bending improperly, however. Doesn't matter whether they're lifting or not. In fact, some of them will deadlift or squat with good form, and then when they go to deload the bar they humpback the weights off like a fool. I mean, what's the point of good technique if you're not applying it to life?

    Both of you are making a fundamental assumption that "weak stabilizers" or muscular imbalances are absolutely the result of machine work. This is incorrect. Machines do not strictly exist to isolate muscles. They just remove some of the freedom to do an exercise incorrectly, and optimize the range and path of motion while compensating for the force-length relationship of the muscle and the torque-angle curve about the joint-- that is, if they're well-designed. They also de-load parts of your body that would normally be prone to injury if otherwise loaded with poor form. In other words, they save your back. This is great for everyone, beginners or athletes, big or small.

    Anyway, as long as you stick to your assumptions, this exchange is not going to go anywhere. Such a big argument is overstating the importance of the distinction we're trying to make. It's sort of silly. So, let's move on.
     
  11. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    All I know is that absolutely everyone I know who has been lifting and /or doing strongmen for many decades agrees with me, and I agree with them.

    You do not build a strong core with machines and you don't teach your CNS to make the body work as a whole unit that way - so be careful should you ever decide to skip cozy machines and do free weight training. Your weak spinal extensors, lack of balance, abs that aren't used to the load and your CNS not trained to coordinate so many muscles at once will most likely result in injury. *shrugs*
     
  12. phillkillv2

    phillkillv2

    Messages:
    3,426
    Just benched 185 lbs at 246 lbs for weight. How is that? Its not my max. I could probably max at 200-215 for bench, that's probably 1-2 reps at that weight.

    Also, I agree with some of the things you two are saying, Omnis/Michael. While the machines help you understand the range of motion you're supposed to do when doing a lift, they feel nothing like the excersises in free weight form. Doing pectoral fly's on a machine is a completely different feeling as to doing them on a bench and that's because you're body is trying to maintain being stable while lifting. Not that machines are bad, I feel like I won't be able to advance as a lifter. I've moved to doing strictly benchpress most of the time and I've noticed how much stability I've gained back.

    I don't know, I think the machines are great for beginners, but with strength you also have to have balance. There are simply more exercises with free weights than there are machines.. Which obviously, you'll have to get familiarized with free weight exercises instead of jumping straight from machines to more complex stuff.

    Just something I thought I'd post .. Take it or leave it, or Omnis just delete it :p

    Whatever, back to lifting.

    Also, girl in yoga pants nearly sat on my face while doing flys. :scared::lol::lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
    Michael88 likes this.
  13. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    Has anyone ever ran into problems with the textured part of a barbell screwing up your shins during deadlifts?
    Shoulder width stance and the bar is eating my legs, even with trousers. Is it possible that I'm, too tall (Wide) for this bar?


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  14. phillkillv2

    phillkillv2

    Messages:
    3,426
    Is the bar rubbing against your legs when you lift it? That happened to me a few times when I did dead lifts. I don't know what I was doing wrong.. May be the stance?
     
  15. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    Oh, the bar rubbing against your legs is an absolute MUST when doing dead lifts with proper form! The bar must be already touching your shins in the starting position and it must be running all the way up to your knees during the lift.

    Its just that the rough textured part of the bar -which prevents your hands from slipping- starts exactly where my shins are with shoulder width stance and it peels off my skin cumulatively, it even eats through my exercise pants.
    I think I have an odd bar, maybe I'll just grind off the first 1/4 of the texture. :idea: Heck, I think I'll grind it all off since I don't need the texture anyway, during deadlifts your hands turn into hooks and can't slip, so there is no need for a texture.
     
  16. TB

    TB Moderator

    Messages:
    31,522
    Location:
    United States
    Would a squat bar pad work?
     
  17. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    There are several different types of squat bars, you mean those with no grip texture at all?

    If yes, yes, those would work, but in my country you can call yourself lucky if you can find a normal barbell. Lifting outside of a gym is unicorn-rare stuff around here and so is the equipment. I can simply buy a new barbell and grind off all the texture and smoothen it with a wire brush.-
     
  18. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    Maybe put some clear tape around the section that rubs against you?








    Almost 4 weeks ago I started going to a small gym in town that my friend goes to, hundred bucks a month and the gym owner is your personal trainer. (Only 8 people at a time in the gym, all free weights.)

    So far I've noticed a huge difference in overall strength and endurance, even if I have gained a few pounds from holding in water and eating like a dog when I get home.:lol:
     
    Michael88 likes this.
  19. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    I had the same idea but it would be so sticky it would probably pull out all my glorious leg hair. OUCH! :lol:

    Oh, if you're holding in water try to cut salt, ironically salt makes your water stay. Say no to salty foods - frozen ready meals also contain tons of hidden salt.
     
  20. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    I meant the section of the bar so the smooth side rubs your leg.:p

    And yes, leg hair must be preserved.
     
    Michael88 likes this.
  21. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    I know which side LOL. :p Its just that, take the non sticky side of duct tape and rub it against your skin with lots of pressure, it will pull your hair out! :scared:

    Heck, I love cycling but I still wont get rid of my leg hair. Extremity beard is simply too cool.

    I bet you didn't complain about it. I know I would not have. :sly:
     
  22. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    Oh god not duct tape, might as well just weld some razor blades on the bar.
    Something like cellophane tape, seems to be relatively smooth.

    Plus warm in winter.:D
     
  23. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    But isn't cellophane sticky as well? Maybe I should simply lubricate the bar with engine oil? No friction! (Only cancer) :dopey:

    And its much easier to get in and out of ultra tight latex pants. Hair makes the process less sticky.

    Hey, why are you looking at me like that?
     
  24. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    It's a lot smoother than duct tape.:p I guess you could put some grease on it as well, usually gets slick when wet.

    :lol:









    My legs were usually pretty big before, but in this month I've noticed new muscles sticking out, and it's harder to fit the thigh into jeans unless they're a super relaxed fit. : D
     
  25. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    I feel your pain, my legs aren't even that big but I have problems finding good looking jeans I can actually move in. To my defense though I have to say jeans nowadays are made for pretty damn skinny people, even the ones labeled as ''Straight leg''. I destroyed two jeans just by lifting a washing machine upstairs, it ripped right where my butt was when I lifted it. :lol:
     
    Omnis likes this.
  26. TB

    TB Moderator

    Messages:
    31,522
    Location:
    United States
    No, I was talking about a pad for the bar like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  27. phillkillv2

    phillkillv2

    Messages:
    3,426
    That would make the bar very awkward to lift. :lol:

    My shoulders are tired. Did dumbbell shoulder presses and other stuff.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  28. Omnis

    Omnis Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    37,974
    Location:
    United States
    Ehh, it doesn't have to touch your shins. But for most people it will. Depends on the lengths of your levers.

    They make special deadlift bars without knurling at leg width. But, for me, I just use the bar at the gym with the most worn-away knurling. There's always a bar like this at the gym. There's also bound to be one with really agressive knurling. I make sure to put the worn out one back on the bench or squat rack so it keeps getting used, while I keep the aggressive one on the military press rack to save it. The aggressive one is great for pressing, obviously.

    In the mean time, especially since it sounds like you have your own bar, I would just grind it like you said, or, failing that, go grab some shinguards to strap on while you lift.
     
  29. Michael88

    Michael88

    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Austria
    Fixed the problem with simple duct tape. There is no problem that can't be fixed with duct tape.

    [​IMG]
     
    Omnis likes this.
  30. phillkillv2

    phillkillv2

    Messages:
    3,426
    Back to the gym after like 2-3 weeks. Gonna feel weird.