gfx analysis of e3 demo
- Thread starter mrPetros
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- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
No way on earth will GTSport reach 90 FPS with what they're doing on the PS4's CPU. 60 FPS locked won't cause discomfort, it gets reprojected to 120. I doubt any game will aim for 90, unless it is very on rails or doesn't push the graphics much and even then it will be the NEO version doing so.
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- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
It's Sony saying this not me. Check the power point slide up thread.
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I am sure what we have seen of the game so far is not the visual quality we can expect for VR. My understanding of how PSVR will work is the PS4 will send the VR optimised image to the PSVR unit so what you see in PSVR will be coming straight from the PS4 but the PSVR box will then process that image for the TV image so it may turn out that what people see on your TV when you play in VR is different to what they would be seeing if you were playing directly on your TV. The reason for this will be to maintain frame rates for VR so there is no need for the PS4 to render a 1080p image if you are playing in VR, instead it will render 2 optimised images in a lower resolution with the correct distortion for the lenses so it can use all the headroom of the PS4 to provide the best experience possible. It will be a fact that PSVR will not look as good as a 1080p TV as it is much lower resolution spread out over a greater field of view so this already means less detail but then 2 scenes need to be rendered instead of 1 so the system is more taxed.
Even on PC in the monitor vs VR debate with much higher resolution VR options which even Sony have admitted are better quality than PSVR there are people who think the resolution and image quality in VR is still too low for them to give up their monitors for VR at this point. It might not even change next generation as 4k gaming could really take off now and the most competitive gamers on PC will probably want to stick with their super fast gaming monitors.
It could also be interesting to watch what happens when Neo is released depending on how it is used. We have already heard that the recommendation regarding Scorpio is that people should only buy it if they have a 4k display which is very disappointing to hear since most gamers would have been more interested in finding out if it supports adaptive sync gaming monitors with 1440p resolutions and if it can support 144hz refresh rates at those resolutions and some of us already render at higher than 1080p resolutions or with supersampling which is kind of the same thing to get a much higher quality image on a 1080p monitor.
So it will be interesting to see what path Neo takes, clearly it will provide a better VR experience with guaranteed higher frame rates but will it also look better? Will it support higher refresh rates for 144hz gaming monitors? Will it support freesync? Will it provide multi monitor support? Or will it be similar to what Microsoft have said about the Scorpio and only be beneficial for those who have a 4k TV (or the Oculus Rift as previously mentioned) which if you ask me is an absolute waste 6 Tflops if only those with a 4k TV can benefit from it although supporting the Oculus Rift is a big deal I imagine anyone with an Oculus Rift will be better off with a gaming PC which by the time Scorpio comes out will be even better than the Nvidia options already available which are already better than the Scorpio.
Even on PC in the monitor vs VR debate with much higher resolution VR options which even Sony have admitted are better quality than PSVR there are people who think the resolution and image quality in VR is still too low for them to give up their monitors for VR at this point. It might not even change next generation as 4k gaming could really take off now and the most competitive gamers on PC will probably want to stick with their super fast gaming monitors.
It could also be interesting to watch what happens when Neo is released depending on how it is used. We have already heard that the recommendation regarding Scorpio is that people should only buy it if they have a 4k display which is very disappointing to hear since most gamers would have been more interested in finding out if it supports adaptive sync gaming monitors with 1440p resolutions and if it can support 144hz refresh rates at those resolutions and some of us already render at higher than 1080p resolutions or with supersampling which is kind of the same thing to get a much higher quality image on a 1080p monitor.
So it will be interesting to see what path Neo takes, clearly it will provide a better VR experience with guaranteed higher frame rates but will it also look better? Will it support higher refresh rates for 144hz gaming monitors? Will it support freesync? Will it provide multi monitor support? Or will it be similar to what Microsoft have said about the Scorpio and only be beneficial for those who have a 4k TV (or the Oculus Rift as previously mentioned) which if you ask me is an absolute waste 6 Tflops if only those with a 4k TV can benefit from it although supporting the Oculus Rift is a big deal I imagine anyone with an Oculus Rift will be better off with a gaming PC which by the time Scorpio comes out will be even better than the Nvidia options already available which are already better than the Scorpio.
- 647
- Zagreb
- johnwalter1044
Just wanted to ask, OP wrote that the game has to, quote:
If there is less light, there is less processing, right?
Just think about all the shadows that have to be processed druing day time.
At night, only the cars and lamps would create shadows.
Oh, and let's not forget that in GT6, at night, only your car had light spread
in front on the track. The AI had lights on, but didn't do anything on the track, if i remember correctly.
So i hope that all the cars will spread light on the track.
How will night mode be more demanding for the game engine?
If there is less light, there is less processing, right?
Just think about all the shadows that have to be processed druing day time.
At night, only the cars and lamps would create shadows.
Oh, and let's not forget that in GT6, at night, only your car had light spread
in front on the track. The AI had lights on, but didn't do anything on the track, if i remember correctly.
So i hope that all the cars will spread light on the track.
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- 679
- mrPetros
think of "light" not as the ambient color, but as light sources. in a closed track at night, you have this effect of light stands that you probably have seen on night football matches, where the football players cast many shadows, each from the different light source. then you have to think that for a 16 car grid, you have a pair of lights in each car too. 32 sources. and these cast light and produce dynamic, moving shadows too.
depending on how much of light properties you want to have baked, how many fake, and how many dynamic, you can run out of steam pretty easily.
depending on how much of light properties you want to have baked, how many fake, and how many dynamic, you can run out of steam pretty easily.
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- Nigel Fox
I was going to mention MrPetros' points. In GT5, you only have two cars casting headlight beams and tail light glow onto the track assets. I can't remember whether GT6 improved on that or not. The reason is that calculating all those light sources is a bear for a system, and in non-racing games which try to force it, it can cause horrendous slowdown. I'm going to be very interested in seeing just how many cars can cast headlight beams in Sport.
- 298
Sony have already made some PS4 VR games run at native 120fps, no reprojection. They havent said what they are though, just that it is possible. I think the GTS VR will be significantly lower fidelity than the 2d version, but keeping the same features, number of cars, 1080p resolution etc. I can't wait for Digital Foundry to test GTS.
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- Victoria BC
- DevilDocz
no the game you see in the videos is the VR version. Just like every other game. The PS4 is a potato, and potatoes don't get 90fps. Also link those 120fps games without reprojection videos. You'd think Digital Foundry would have done a analysis out of them already. They also said reprojection is on all the time, even if its 120fps native or not
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- Johnnypenso
- 298
Ok reprojection is added on top to reduce latency, but the games are rendering 120fps natively without the need of reprojection in order to achieve 120fps, if that makes sense.
But they could be tetris like colours, here is a screen shot of one 120fps ps4 VR game, at least it's 1920x1080 pixels...
But they could be tetris like colours, here is a screen shot of one 120fps ps4 VR game, at least it's 1920x1080 pixels...
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- Victoria BC
- DevilDocz
no it'll look the same
That looks like one of the PSN Plus gamesOk reprojection is added on top to reduce latency, but the games are rendering 120fps natively without the need of reprojection in order to achieve 120fps, if that makes sense.
But they could be tetris like colours, here is a screen shot of one 120fps ps4 VR game, at least it's 1920x1080 pixels...
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- Johnnypenso
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It really isn't but you can keep thinking that if you wish. As it is regardless of how many pixels were rendered in GT6 the output to your display is actually 1920x1080 not 1440x1080 so if they were actually calling it 1080p perhaps that is why they believe they can but 1440x1080 is not 1080p just like 2048x1080 is not called 1080p.
- 298
You are mistaken about what 1080p actually means. It means 1080 horizontal lines of progressively drawn pixels. Which is where the 1080 comes from in 1080p and where the P comes from in 1080p. It has nothing to do with the vertical lines of resolution. Aspect ratio is free. A common aspect ratio is 1920x1080 pixels.
- 1,089
I am sure their target is to hit 60fps in PS4 and 90fps in PS4.5. It will definitely be better than E3 build. In Polyphony LA office or home lol it seems it was better than the one available to the public at E3 floor according to ISR guy who played the both version.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Not probable at all, the NEO still uses a weak CPU (if the rumored specs are true) so it isn't enough for that kind of bump.
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- Singapore
i would say their target is rockstable 60fps in PS4 and also same rockstable 60fps in PS4.5 (NEO MODE)
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If the rumours are true then I wouldn't really call it weak. The reason I didn't believe the original rumour is because they said Jaguar and there is no way they would use such old tech for a new system so those rumours made me doubt all the specs Giant Bomb claimed, the recent rumours I have seen have retained all the numbers but are now saying the cores are Zen lite. The performance rumours of Zen are incredible so even if the rumoured numbers are true with 8 cores optimised the performance potential of the NEO should be incredible.
But the CPU side of the APU really isn't the issue if we are talking about the framerate, the GPU is the bottleneck in a PS4, it is pretty pathetic by modern standards and what is rumoured for the NEO would run 90fps without breaking a sweat.
