gfx analysis of e3 demo
- Thread starter mrPetros
- 100 comments
- 8,560 views
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,259
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
They still have time to get 60 fps sorted. If they can't get it solid then they will have to start downgrading graphics in VR mode so that they can.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
- 789
- QLD
http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
Jaguar was discontinued in 2014, there is no way they would use Jaguar with Polaris.
Actually the PS4's GPU isn't fine, the CPU is actually a bit of a beast and people tend to underestimate its potential, the new one will be a massive leap forward and at least twice as capable. The PS4 GPU however is comparable to an AMD R7 265 in performance, it is very capable but definitely the bottleneck. Again the new one will be at least twice as capable.
I know people look at the numbers and think the CPU is slow and therefore not so great but I'm guessing those people have never tried to underclock their CPU. In my experience CPU's don't scale in a linear manner and they still run incredibly well at lower clocks but produce much less heat and keep in mind the consoles both have 8 cores in a system where developers can easily use them to at least the full potential of the weaker console. In benchmarking of the PS4 CPU it performed astonishingly well and I'm certain it isn't the issue in trying to achieve 60fps but the numbers they are getting out of the GPU are a credit to the developer.
Speaking of graphic fidelity, that is not determined by the GPU, it is dictated by the GPU but it is determined by the developer and settings, the GPU just has to try to draw what it is told as fast as possible and its ability to do that is reflected in fps.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sonys-plan-for-playstation-4k-neo-revealed
These are the same specs that are rumored on GAF and reported by Giant Bomb and Kotaku. All state the CPU gets a modest upgrade and is still very much Jaguar.
- 1,089
20-25% boost in cpu, ram and more than twice performance of gpu. 1.8tflops to 4.2tflops. Moreover the the double the compute units and overclocked speed are GPGPU which can do both gfx and cpu task. Gfx is the main problem for fps not the cpu. But I do not understand though why cpu are so slow in the console
PS4.5 or Neo is meant for mainly for fps boost and PSVR. I do not think gfx quality will be too much noticeable. Just that everything will run faster due to beefy gfx chip
- 789
- QLD
Those are all claiming the same source.
So what we have are one set of specs based on earlier company documents or a different set of specs based on more recent insider info claiming Sony changed their mind because of the costs involved.
I guess we will have to wait and see. My imaginary money is on Zen.
- 298
Low spec cpu are very cheap, efficient and compact. Good for cost effective mass production. I think they went too cheap though.
The benefits could be new console updates every couple of years. If you are happy to keep upgrading, which I think I could be. As long as I get a reasonable sale price of my used console.
The benefits could be new console updates every couple of years. If you are happy to keep upgrading, which I think I could be. As long as I get a reasonable sale price of my used console.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
All of the rumored specs are the ones approved by proper sources, not one credible source said Sony are going back to the drawing board, which also doesn't make sense financially since supposedly dev kits are already out there.
In the very very low chance they do that then don't expect it before late 2017 with Scorpio but NOW the key thing is the Neo is using Jaguar cores there is no other rumor.
- 1,233
- Patra
- Rotorist
Exactly! They can make 2 video settings for GTS so when in VR mode details could go down a bit to secure over 60FPS all the time and max details when in normal mode. Very easy to be made in PS4 with X86 cpu arch.
- 8,698
They already have experience in creating different graphics modes, what with Hi-Fi on PS1, wet tracks and photo-mode on PS2, 3D and triple screens on PS3 etc. what is one more in VR?
- 298
It would be nice to start seeing, for the launch of VR, a choice in the quality of VR game we experience, so there is the native 60fps VR mode, and the 90fps mode and the 120fps mode (all with the re-projection to 120fps). With differing amounts of rendered detail for each mode, but all 1920x1080 pixels.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I think it's been pretty well determined that 90 fps is the minimum that works to avoid the kind of motion sickness that can happen with VR so I don't think you'll see anyone taking a chance on 60fps and have people plastered all over YT getting sick while using VR with framerates endorsed by the manufacturer.
- 789
- QLD
It hasn't actually been well determined. It has been stated by Oculus. Both PSVR and OSVR have shown that you can have a sickness free VR experience at lower frame rates and the Consumer release of the Rift has shown that even at higher frame rates sickness can still be experienced. So considering that it is possible to have a sickness free experience at 60fps and that 90+fps does not avoid sickness we can say that the claim made by Oculus does not appear to hold up and needs further study. We can also look at the timing of claims and see the possibility that the motivation behind such claims could have been strategical.
What we do know is the claims after E3 about the VR sickness being related to frame rate were simply bad reporting and the best explanation of the cause of the VR sickness people were experiencing especially in Resident Evil was a result of being able to use the analogue stick to look around, we know that head movements that do not match those in real life are very likely to cause sickness. What E3 has shown us is just how serious of an issue this is and I personally feel Sony need to take action on this matter and can't allow the ability to look around in VR with anything other than actual head movement and that head movements in game must match the real world to avoid VR sickness.
As for VR sickness in PSVR I imagine it will be widespread when PSVR first releases and that Sony need to provide instructions detailing the known steps to developing your "VR legs" as people describe it. Even with the recent commercial PC releases we have seen that people new to VR are just as likely to experience VR sickness as ever and that people who have been using VR for some time have already adapted, we can see that there is an easy process to adapt as long as games are well made.
So as far as the game goes, it needs to be smooth and movements need to match real life movements, we also know that certain types of movements in game are best avoided (such as fast running) and that movement through the virtual environment is one of the biggest challenges to VR. We also know that VR is very well suited to the seated cockpit experience.
- 298
But with 120fps re-projection from 60fps rendered. The motion of the headset will be at 120fps, so there shouldn't be motion sickness connected to headset latency from movement of the head.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 152
- South Africa
- Toblakai99
I personally think vr will work best with games where you are seated in game, like in a mech cockpit or a car.I know I will never play resident evil 7 in vr because I like living to much.
- 298
I don't know for sure but currently I am believing 60fps re-projected to 120fps will be a lot more pleasant than native 90fps.
I believe Sony have created a very wise move in making as 120hz headset. The PC developers will catchup and overtake, but they had a chance to do it in 2016 and missed the boat.
I believe Sony have created a very wise move in making as 120hz headset. The PC developers will catchup and overtake, but they had a chance to do it in 2016 and missed the boat.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
It's a little early to be making that claim that what Sony has done so far is a wise move. Vive and Rift both have higher resolution and a wider FOV. They also come with a built in mic and headphones and the Sony VR does not. The Sony version is definitely the budget version of the three and it remains to be seen if 120 fps reprojected is any better than a native 90 fps.
CPU doesn't matter. It's the PS4's outdated GPU that's the problem.
- 298
According to Digital Foundry it is the cpu not the gpu that holds back frame rate on the PS4. GPU is good for higher resolution, but a better (than 1.6ghz) cpu is needed to do fast work to get lots of frames done.
So I think this bias for gpu in NEO points to a Sony interest in 4k gaming at 30fps, or at least higher than 1080p native, then upscaled to 4k. The cpu clock upgrade to 2.1ghz is the one which could make VR frame rate better.
So I think this bias for gpu in NEO points to a Sony interest in 4k gaming at 30fps, or at least higher than 1080p native, then upscaled to 4k. The cpu clock upgrade to 2.1ghz is the one which could make VR frame rate better.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
If an i3 CPU can run VR on a GTX 1080, then CPU doesn't matter. CPU doesn't compute graphics.
That's called integrated graphics. The PS4 is limited by its graphical power, not computational power, hence why people can run second gen i7 processors on a GTX1080 without bottlenecking. If the processor was the problem, screen tearing wouldn't be present in GTS. Let me put it this way. If a laptop that old can run the game without problem, without bottlenecking, then the GPU is the limiting factor.
- 298
From Digital Foundry:
"This is our primary concern with Neo and Scorpio: we are game-changing increases to graphics power with more powerful GPUs and some insane flop-counts, but it is not being matched by a similar boost to CPU power. This may explain why we are seeing a focus on 4K resolutions as opposed to significantly higher frame-rates - doubling performance from 30fps to 60fps (something we would much prefer) also requires asking much more from the CPU. And on Neo at least, where we know the spec, we aren't seeing anything like the doubling of performance required."
"This is our primary concern with Neo and Scorpio: we are game-changing increases to graphics power with more powerful GPUs and some insane flop-counts, but it is not being matched by a similar boost to CPU power. This may explain why we are seeing a focus on 4K resolutions as opposed to significantly higher frame-rates - doubling performance from 30fps to 60fps (something we would much prefer) also requires asking much more from the CPU. And on Neo at least, where we know the spec, we aren't seeing anything like the doubling of performance required."
