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- UKMikeyA
Fact check: Vaccines protect against contracting, spreading COVID-19
While vaccinated people can still get COVID-19, experts say the shots provide considerable protection against the virus.
usatoday.com
What your job is regarding taking the proper precautions depends on a lot of things, and it changes as the pandemic evolves. You're over-simplifying to say that it's their job, not yours. You're required to take reasonable precautions to keep the people around you from getting sick. During a pandemic, that might require wearing masks.So when Covid is a couple years behind us, and mask mandates have been lifted worldwide, I trust that you’ll still be wearing your N95 right? COVID isn’t the only airborne transmissible illness you know…
I get the collective “everyone do their part to not spread the virus” bit… I really do.
But there seems like their needs to be a time when personal accountability comes into play, and if the individual feels they are at substantial risk of complications due to Covid, it’s their job to take what they feel is proper precautions. Not mine.
You're required not to go 30mph over the speed limit weaving in and out of lanes like an a-hole because that's a reasonable precaution imposed upon you to keep those around you from getting hurt. It's not your right to go 30mph over the speed limit like an a-hole. This is analogized to "it's not your right to refuse to wear a mask like an a-hole".Same rules apply to when I’m scanning my mirrors during 120 mile commute to work and I see an a-hole weaving in and out of lanes going 30mph over the speed limit. Should I go and block him because it’s my responsibility to keep the other people on the freeway safe? Or should I get the hell out of the way and pray to god that other people are utilizing defensive driving techniques like common sense and drivers training dictates?
We tried to minimize the loss of life until the pandemic calmed down and people got protected. What on earth did you think was going to happen?World wide, we’re already starting to see governments lift mandates. I’m honestly curious to see how the political and medical leaders are going to frame it? Like, if they’ll try to frame it as we beat Covid or whatever…
I for one, equate it to Americas withdrawal from Vietnam and our latest dismal withdrawal from Afghanistan. We got out because we lost. We got out because nothing was working.
That's "all" the vaccines did? Well that's amazing then. But the vaccines also did so much to combat delta, a more deadly variant. The vaccines combated the spread of the variant of the moment, and mitigated the damage of new variants afterward, which is what's bringing on the end of the pandemic.The only thing that curbed this virus was lockdowns. The only thing the “vaccine” did was keep people out of the hospital, and people with pre-existing health conditions alive.
I have no idea what you think omicron proved here.But not nearly enough to warrant vaccine mandates IMHO. The omicron variant proved that if anything.
The booster is a good thing to have if you're going to get omicron.Called my mom yesterday to say what’s up like I usually do every couple days or so. She’s positive. Not feeling super great. Not horrible by any means… just sick. She got her booster 2 months ago. And oh yea, this her second time positive too, just like me.
It's not a vaccine unless it provides perfect immunity? Ok bud, give me an example of a "vaccine" then.This is the definition of a Vaccine. This Covid Vaccine we have hardly fits the description of this word by way of providing “immunity” as so the definition states.
This is profoundly incorrect and uninformed.At this point, the Covid vaccine is little more than a pre-emptive therapeutic or booster.
This is all fine and dandy til' "I'll worry about myself" becomes, "Give me medical treatment".But there seems like their needs to be a time when personal accountability comes into play, and if the individual feels they are at substantial risk of complications due to Covid, it’s their job to take what they feel is proper precautions. Not mine.
Imagine trying to critique it being called a "vaccine" whilst simultaneously listing it actually doing what it was intended to do.The only thing that curbed this virus was lockdowns. The only thing the “vaccine” did was keep people out of the hospital, and people with pre-existing health conditions alive.
Citation needed.Lot of mental pretzel twisting there champ.
"If you think me driving 30 mph over the limit and weaving in and out of traffic like an a-hole is dangerous, get an extra air bag or something".Like I said, if you feel at risk, YOU should do whatever you feel is necessary. If that means double masking and boosters every 2 months. Do it.
Unless you want to set foot off your property, in which case it might not be entirely up to you, and it's not only your problem.But for me to get Covid after I got 2 doses, and Covid again after my booster. I’m out. If I want to run the risk of getting little more than a cold (my symptoms) that’s my problem.
Doesn't square with the rest of your absurd rant.If a place requires I wear a mask, have updated boosters etc. Then I have to either play by their rules, or don’t go. That’s a personal decision I have to make.
"Personal accountability" here would be having the decency to just curl up into a ball and die, having accepted the conequences of one's own actions (or rather inactions), but the chicken**** mother****ers don't do that.This is all fine and dandy til' "I'll worry about myself" becomes, "Give me medical treatment".
Some "personal accountability".
So how many years ago did you stop taking flu vaccines?But for me to get Covid after I got 2 doses, and Covid again after my booster. I’m out.
Go for it. Just stay out of the hospital when/if Covid does decide to affect you more than a cold.If I want to run the risk of getting little more than a cold (my symptoms) that’s my problem.
"I want to make claims and not be expected to substantiate them."Geezo guys. It’s pretty incredible how fast y’all jump on someone that has a slightly different take on something
Let's take an example. Let's say you make the reckless decision to, during the height of a pandemic, ignore vaccination and mask requirements and stroll into a public building spewing air on everyone.In my line of work, I’m all about personal accountability. And personal choices. Both of them can coexist you know
This has already been explained to you, only two weeks ago, so I'm not sure why you're posting it as if that's not the case.But for me to get Covid after I got 2 doses, and Covid again after my booster. I’m out.
Because you were vaccinated, one again as was explained to you only 14 days ago!If I want to run the risk of getting little more than a cold (my symptoms) that’s my problem.
Polio, rubella, tetanus, hepatitis a and b, smallpox, measles, whooping cough (forgot the name of that one), some other ones I’m sure I’m forgettingCitation needed.
"If you think me driving 30 mph over the limit and weaving in and out of traffic like an a-hole is dangerous, get an extra air bag or something".
Unless you want to set foot off your property, in which case it might not be entirely up to you, and it's not only your problem.
Doesn't square with the rest of your absurd rant.
Still waiting for your example of a "vaccine".
None of which, not a single one, gives you 100% immunity.Polio, rubella, tetanus, hepatitis a and b, smallpox, measles, whooping cough (forgot the name of that one), some other ones I’m sure I’m forgetting
None of which fit your description. Zero of those have 100% effectivity. Only hep b out of that list has a higher effectivity than Pfizer against Alpha (or whichever variant it was based on... beta?).Polio, rubella, tetanus, hepatitis a and b, smallpox, measles, whooping cough (forgot the name of that one), some other ones I’m sure I’m forgetting
Polio - 90%Polio, rubella, tetanus, hepatitis a and b, smallpox, measles, whooping cough (forgot the name of that one), some other ones I’m sure I’m forgetting
Because it will not stop mutating, and the more people infected and unvaccinated the greater the chance that will happen.I appreciate all the responses fellas, I do. I have thick skin 👍🏼
Honest question though out of curiosity and the free and hopefully respectful exchange of views and opinions because it’s no secret you guys see eye to eye with me and that’s fine!
At this stage of the pandemic. Where the virus has appeared to mutate into little more than a bad cold except for the outliers (and there’s always outliers). Why should the vaccine be mandated? Why should masks get mandated? Why do these precautions need to extend past personal choice to protect yourself however you see fit?
Because the world doesn't revolve around you. Vaccines & masks work to give everyone a better chance at avoiding more serious symptoms, decreasing rate of infection, & help keep hospital resources open for other issues. If people would consider everyone else & at least make some effort, things wouldn't need to be mandated.Why should the vaccine be mandated? Why should masks get mandated? Why do these precautions need to extend past personal choice to protect yourself however you see fit?
Government may not know what they are doing, but I see one, if not two statements (or more) in your post that show you are equally clueless when it comes to epidemiology.Gotta “love” how health authorities pretend that the vaccines made a decisive difference in making re-openings possible. Omikron doesn’t really get all the credit it deserves for giving people natural immunity, and without many of the risk factors known from the now completely marginalized Delta variant. Yet some governments still insist on mandatory vaccination for the sole reason of keeping up the image “we know what we’re doing folks”. No, they don’t, clearly never did.
Feel free to share your expertize.Government may not know what they are doing, but I see one, if not two statements (or more) in your post that show you are equally clueless when it comes to epidemiology.
How do you know that Omicron grants natural immunity? You're just saying natural immunity because cases overall seem to be down. The fact that there are no mutations that have managed to spread rapidly doesn't mean that it's over.Feel free to share your expertize.
How do you know it doesn’t? You were the one who challenged my viewpoint like you had all the right answers.How do you know that Omicron grants natural immunity?
No, I’m not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. Positive cases are through the roof with record numbers and the need for medical assistance among the unvaccinated healthy and non-elderly is negligible. I’m saying natural immunity because it’s the opposite of vaccination.You're just saying natural immunity because cases overall seem to be down.
Omikron has been spreading rapidly for a few months now.The fact that there are no mutations that have managed to spread rapidly doesn't mean that it's over.
I’m sure they did when Delta was the dominant variant. Now it’s Omikron calling the shots, and it’s already being compared directly to regular season flu. However, some countries still insist on mandatory mass vaccinations like it’s some doomsday plague.The vaccines DID make a difference. Or are you insinuating that nobody additional would have died?
I know that, and never ignored it. I have criticized mass vaccination policies for being rushed, and here we are with my criticism having been valid all along.The vaccinations have been proven to lessen the effects of COVID and reduce the chance of hospitalization and death from the virus itself. It's been proven and stated in MULTIPLE THREADS which you chose to ignore.
You've been around long enough to know the burden of proof lies with who made the claim, i.e. you.How do you know it doesn’t? You were the one who challenged my viewpoint like you had all the right answers.
If it becomes optional from government viewpoint, I take that as a sign they believe we're past the worst of it.So when mask mandates and eventually vaccine mandates get lifted, do you guys feel it would be irresponsible for people to follow local protocols if they include optional mask and vaccine requirements?
And that’s where you and I differ in opinion. I think governments are beginning to lift restrictions because the mandates aren’t working as hoped. And now the economic fallout is proving more harmful to society than the virus is at this moment. And one can make a valid argument that a lot of the social distancing policies contributed directly to the economic fallout and didn’t do a whole lot of long term goodYou've been around long enough to know the burden of proof lies with who made the claim, i.e. you.
If it becomes optional from government viewpoint, I take that as a sign they believe we're past the worst of it.
So no, because it means life will be back to normalcy for the most part. If people want to continue wearing masks and taking extra precaution, go for it. Won't be any different when some people wore masks & people decided if they wanted flu shots or not before the pandemic.
I’ve also written enough academic papers to know that burden of proof isn’t a thing when making references to common knowledge. Natural immunity from Omikron is widely being used to explain part of the decline in hospitalizations, but at the same time authorities still give credit to the vaccines. The authorities are the ones who need to prove something, but your excessive trust in them probably explains why you prefer to challenge me over them.You've been around long enough to know the barren of proof lies with who made the claim, i.e. you.
So you should have no trouble citing sources for this common knowledge.I’ve also written enough academic papers to know that burden of proof isn’t a thing when making references to common knowledge. Natural immunity from Omikron is widely being used to explain part of the decline in hospitalizations, but at the same time authorities still give credit to the vaccines. The authorities are the ones who need to prove something, but your excessive trust in them probably explains why you prefer to challenge me over them.
You asked a question about whether it would be irresponsible for people to follow protocols if the masks & vaccine requirements were optional.And that’s where you and I differ in opinion.