GM VS Ford

[Poverty]

Which company do you prefer and why? I was just wondering because on gtplanet there doesnt seem to be any ford fans but a ton of GM ones. Arent Ford also based in Detroit, yet the likes of blazing and YSSMAN never mention them, when they say one of the reason why they like GM is because they are based where they grew up.

 

[Joey D]

It's mainly due to the fact GM is bigger and has more power then Ford does that it gets mentioned more. Also GM is probably more Detroit based then Ford is, GM has many campuses within a 10 mile radius, Ford does not. In fact if I go outside my house and look down the road a little ways I can see the Orion Assembly plant. I mean GM's in my back yard.

Also more people in this area were employeed by GM then by Ford back during the more Golden Years of the companies. I know my dad worked on the line, my grandpa and great-grandpa worked on the line, my uncles did, and lots of family friends did. I don't know anyone who worked for Ford.

I'm sure it goes in areas on which company is liked better, I'm sure there are Ford areas of the country and there are GM areas of the country.

But not to discredit anything, what about Chrysler? Their world headquaters are pretty next to my school, which is about 7 miles from my house.

But the debate of Ford vs. GM is old as the car itself.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

I used to be a GM guy, but based on current products, I would have to say Ford.

 

[skip0110]

I suppose I used to be a Ford person maybe 5-7 years ago, because I thought the 5.0 Stang was about the best performance buy you could have. Now the 5.0s are getting older, rarer, and skyrocketing in value, while LT1 Camaros are looking like a better value, so that is my "if I had the money" car right now. GM has as of late also been more aggresively supporting the aftermarket, while Ford's new offerings/ECU design does not cater to cheap modification.

Not to mention that, looking at new cars, the GTO is much better built than the Mustang (in terms of the capability of the platform to handle additional power).

So I guess I'd say that as of late GM hab been holding my attention more. I don't have a strong bias one way or the other though.

With regard to DC, they have not sold a reasonable (good aftermarket support) affordable performance RWD vehicle in the last 15-20 years.

 

[JCE]

Ford hands down. This is the easiest decision on the face of the planet. Let me break it down how I feel.

1. Ford has Japanese influence--and no Suzuki for GM does NOT count. And GM no longer has a stake in Subaru--a move that will kill them later on.
2. Ford has more QUALITY European influece--sorry but for GM Vauxhall and Opel do NOT count. Saab counts...but they aren't very popular which is a shame considering these are the best GMs as far as build quality--and frankly looks.
3. GM has 3 muscle cars across the lineup (well 2 now since they killed the GTO--and 1 if you don't let the Camaro count until official sales launch) Ford has alot more; Jaguar XK, Aston Martin DB9, AM Vanquish (still making these?), AM Vantage, Ford GT, and the Mustang.
4. Ford's entire car lineup on average is safer.
5. Ford's entire car lineup has better gas mileage.
6. (Opinion) Ford's saloons across each sister company look a hell of alot better.
7. (Opinion) Ford has CVT auto transmissions in some of thier cars--GM does not that I know of. CVT is a great auto tranny--I love them...and GM's modern auto transmissions are known to be rubbish.
8. Ford's car lineup doesn't seem to depreciate as fast as GM's.
9. (Opinion) The only cool thing about GM is Holden, the 2 new Saturns coming out, and the ZEE OH SIKS. Period.
10. (Opinion) Ford's pickup trucks seem much nicer inside as well as frankly look better--that angled headlight **** that GM's done to it's truck lineup has uglyfied them to the point of vomitting.

I could go on but I'll stop at 10 to let people start trying to pick apart my comments and opinions. Just be adult about it and don't flame.

 

[skip0110]

Many good points there, but:

3. GM has 3 muscle cars across the lineup (well 2 now since they killed the GTO--and 1 if you don't let the Camaro count until official sales launch) Ford has alot more; Jaguar XK, Aston Martin DB9, AM Vanquish (still making these?), AM Vantage, Ford GT, and the Mustang.

AM's dont count, they are not sold in great enough numbers. GM has the Corvette, Solstice, and SSR. And will soon have the Camaro and Sky.

7. (Opinion) Ford has CVT auto transmissions in some of thier cars--GM does not that I know of. CVT is a great auto tranny--I love them...and GM's modern auto transmissions are known to be rubbish.

The 4L60E is pretty much the gold-standard for a realiable, simple, intuitive 4-speed auto design and the new 6 speed is exellent as well, I hear.

EDIT: Just looked into it, and in fact Bentley and BMW use GM auto boxes (as well as others). There is no doubt that GM makes the best auto transmissions in the world.

 

[Joey D]

Actually GM has pretty good Japanese influnce, they have Isuzu, which pretty much designed the entire Colorado, they also have Daewoo which while is not as impressive brought GM the Aveo if I'm not mistaken.

Lots of people seem to like Opel and Saab's and seem to thin they are good. Why in God's name don't you count them?

You said muscle cars right? The Jag, the DB9, Vanquish, Vantage and Ford GT aren't muscle cars. Everything except the GT is a sports car, the GT would be a supercar. The Mustang is a muscle car...err pony car. GM has the GTO, which is better in performance (not in price). Also you said you like Holden, which is what the GTO is. Chyrsler has more muscle for sure then both.

CVT transmissions suck! Have you driven a car with one? I got a chance to drive a Caliber with one and it was the worst gearbox I've ever felt on a car, face it, American's suck at anything other then the boxes with gears.

The F-150 is better now, but I still think the Tundra is worlds better.

 

[Poverty]

I have to agree with jce3000gt I generally find that Ford makes the better cars.

 

[Joey D]

I have to agree with jce3000gt I generally find that Ford makes the better cars.

For Europe, Ford Europe and Ford America are very different...you guys actually get a half way decent Focus that people actually want to buy,

 

[Poverty]

GM of europe is also alright but ford of europe is better.
The american car lineup is pretty poor. If I was to come over there and couldnt afford a VAG, MB or BMW, I wouldnt know where else to turn. Id probably end up with a civic or camry.

 

[Joey D]

You wouldn't be able to afford them because they are so much more expensive. But pretty much you can;t go wrong with a Camry, I mean it is the best selling American car...which just proves that Toyota has figured it out. Why GM and Ford don't try to duplicate it is beyond me.

 

[Poverty]

I think the biggest problem the american car manufactueres are having in their own back yard is that theyre trying to build cars that are good at too much and therefore cancel each other out.

For example they try to make budget motoring, which is all good, but if your after a budget car you dont want something that gets around 25-28MPG you wnat something that gets 45mpg. However one could argue that the ford and GM of america products are usually always faster than theyre competition, but really a budget car buyer wont care about straight line performance. They want a cheap car to get them from a to b in a certain amount of comfort the cheapest possible way.

 

[JCE]

Actually GM has pretty good Japanese influnce, they have Isuzu, which pretty much designed the entire Colorado, they also have Daewoo which while is not as impressive brought GM the Aveo if I'm not mistaken.

Lots of people seem to like Opel and Saab's and seem to thin they are good. Why in God's name don't you count them?

You said muscle cars right? The Jag, the DB9, Vanquish, Vantage and Ford GT aren't muscle cars. Everything except the GT is a sports car, the GT would be a supercar. The Mustang is a muscle car...err pony car. GM has the GTO, which is better in performance (not in price). Also you said you like Holden, which is what the GTO is. Chyrsler has more muscle for sure then both.

CVT transmissions suck! Have you driven a car with one? I got a chance to drive a Caliber with one and it was the worst gearbox I've ever felt on a car, face it, American's suck at anything other then the boxes with gears.

The F-150 is better now, but I still think the Tundra is worlds better.

I mentioned Saab actually--you missed it. Daewoo...Izuzu? You can't be serious...how can you compair those to Mazda? Mazda's lightyears farther than those two companies in terms of style and drivetrain. The Solstice isn't a "muscle car", and neither is the SSR. The SSR (in small production numbers) is a rediculous attempt to take an older generation of Americans "back in time"--which Ford is guilty of with the rubbish Thunderbird. But GM loses twice on this with the rubbish HHR as well as the SSR. Maybe my definition of Muscle Car differs from you, large motor, 2 doors, great soundtrack, and RWD. That's my definition. And you can't seriosusly compair any Chrysler product to anything Ford or GM made can you? DC is completely and utterly rubbish all the way around. I have driven cars with CVT transmissions in both Nissans and Fords and they do not suck--not by a longshot. Pick another company other than DC for comparison please. Can't compair the Tundra becuase it's a GM vs Ford debate. And lastly, I dislike the Colorado, it feels cheap, and the ride + build quality is less than stellar...no actually it reminds me of every non-Cadillac or Saab GM currently on the market. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a GM product over DC but Ford just has a better complete lineup everywhere in the world vs GM. It's almost a concrete fact.

I wouldnt know where else to turn. Id probably end up with a civic or camry.

The Civic would be an acceptable turn--but the Camry is deviod of any feeling or performance what-so-ever. Every Camry I've ever driven (including the new one) felt like I waas driving a box of Kleenex Tissues. Soft and without any road feeling what-so-ever. Ford's US lineup isn't THAT bad. We have a rebadged Volvo and a Rebadged Mazda along with the Focus that's not rubbish no matter what BX or anyone else says.

 

[Joey D]

That's actually not that bad of an assumption, I've noticed that American cars are trying to hard at certian things, the Aztek is the perfect example. They tried way to hard with that SUV, err Crossover, err thing.

Americans are good at making things fast and cheap. Also we build some of the best trucks and SUV's, although I still think the Tundra is one of the best trucks you can buy. But when it comes to cars, it's all Japan. You can't beat something cheaper and better...which what most Toyotas and Hondas are. American companies need to take lessons from Japan.

I mentioned Saab actually--you missed it. Daewoo...Izuzu? You can't be serious...how can you compair those to Mazda? Mazda's lightyears farther than those two companies in terms of style and drivetrain. The Solstice isn't a "muscle car", and neither is the SSR. The SSR (in small production numbers) is a rediculous attempt to take an older generation of Americans "back in time"--which Ford is guilty of with the rubbish Thunderbird. But GM loses twice on this with the rubbish HHR as well as the SSR. Maybe my definition of Muscle Car differs from you, large motor, 2 doors, great soundtrack, and RWD. That's my definition. And you can't seriosusly compair any Chrysler product to anything Ford or GM made can you? DC is completely and utterly rubbish all the way around. I have driven cars with CVT transmissions in both Nissans and Fords and they do not suck--not by a longshot. Pick another company other than DC for comparison please. Can't compair the Tundra becuase it's a GM vs Ford debate. And lastly, I dislike the Colorado, it feels cheap, and the ride + build quality is less than stellar...no actually it reminds me of every non-Cadillac or Saab GM currently on the market. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a GM product over DC but Ford just has a better complete lineup everywhere in the world vs GM. It's almost a concrete fact.

But you missed Opel, which is pretty good.

Isuzu made the Colorado, which is a pretty decent influnce I would say. The Colorado is also, as much as I hate to say it, better then the S-10 in just about everyway except style. The S-Truck was on of the most outdated vehicles on the road...and I'd know. Ford has the aged Ranger which needs to die as it's pretty outdated and no one buys them, you are better off with a Tacoma.

The HHR is very good for an American hatchback thing, better then the Caliber according to Car and Driver, and better then the Focus in terms of space and other things. The HHR was not a bust, it was a smart move on GM's part. The SSR however was a bad idea, right up there with the convertable Dakota.

American CVT's are an extreme waste of everything, they are so poorly made that they can't take extreme abuse. There are several problems with American made CVT's, Japanese ones are much better.

DC has several muscle cars, the Charger SRT-8 (and non SRT-8) along with the Magnum and 300C (sorta). They also, buy your definition, have the Viper and a ton of Mercedes.

As for the full sized trucks, the new GMT900's are predicted to be better then the F-150. I would probably say thats a fair assumpstion since the F-150 is starting to age.

And Ford is not better then GM in everyway, if that were so people would buy the Focus, they would buy Lincolns in general, as well as Mercs, they would sell things like the 500 and Rangers. In fact they don't sell much other then the F-150, the Fusion, Mustang, and Escape to a point.

 

[JCE]

Yes, American companies really need to take notice at Japan--and Germany for that matter. Even you GM nuts will have to admit that Mazda's influence has greatly improved Ford (US). Even if you don't like the front fascia of the US-spec Fusion it's still a great car. What surprises me is DC is so far behind GM and Ford that I don't think they'll catch up...you talk about some rubbish cars...

 

[Poverty]

Ford have a rebadged volvo!? What is it? The new volvo S80's interior is better than that of mercedes and BMW and a competitor to that of audi.

 

[Joey D]

Yes, American companies really need to take notice at Japan--and Germany for that matter. Even you GM nuts will have to admit that Mazda's influence has greatly improved Ford (US). Even if you don't like the front fascia of the US-spec Fusion it's still a great car. What surprises me is DC is so far behind GM and Ford that I don't think they'll catch up...you talk about some rubbish cars...

Then explain to me why Fords don't sell? Seriously I live in Michigan, I should see so many Fords and GM's that it isn't even funny. I mean no one should drive anything other then American cars. I seriously see very few Ford products on the road and more GM's, Chryslers, and Toyotas. Ford's sales pretty much suck and there is a reason why, people don't exactly like them for x reason.

The Civic would be an acceptable turn--but the Camry is deviod of any feeling or performance what-so-ever. Every Camry I've ever driven (including the new one) felt like I waas driving a box of Kleenex Tissues. Soft and without any road feeling what-so-ever. Ford's US lineup isn't THAT bad. We have a rebadged Volvo and a Rebadged Mazda along with the Focus that's not rubbish no matter what BX or anyone else says.

Good lord I think the last hatchback I would look at is a Focus, they are such a crappy little car and are extremely outdated...we need the Euro spec one which isn't crappy. And anyone who discredits the Camry has no idea what is going on in this country...it's the best selling car for a reason. Who cares if it doesn't feel sporty, if it sells that good there is something that Toyota is doing right to have so many on the road. I actually like the 07 one.

 

[neanderthal]

in fact Bentley and BMW use GM auto boxes (as well as others). There is no doubt that GM makes the best auto transmissions in the world.

this is news to me. which transmission is it that you speak off sir?


on topic, i never liked ford (USA. ford europe is another story) but recently, ford has been hitting them out the park (GT, mustang, fusion, they righted land- rover, got aston martin on track, volvo is sucessful. only jag, lincoln and mercury need revitalising)

GM on the other hand has only come up with the solstice, GMT 900 trucks and C5/ 6 vettes. everything else from them is banal, tired, or just plain horrid. the G6 is lukewarm. it could have been so much more. the malibu is on a nice platform. bug fugly as hell, and got that old engine, tired interior, and just poor overall effort.

but that describles GM cars for teh most part.

i must say that i love that new tahoe. sexy as hell.

 

[ls2_297]

GM.... for one reason... HOLDEN, living in Australia you are either a holden man or a ford man, and im 100% holden!

 

[ferrari_chris]

GM for me.

Why?

Well, because I'm a Holden man of course. And why is that? Because my dad had a Holden. It was only natural that I would follow the tradition.

... living in Australia you are either a holden man or a ford man, and im 100% holden!

Australia ain't the only country like that.

 

[skip0110]

this is news to me. which transmission is it that you speak off sir?

BMW used the 4L30-E in the E34 5-series, and uses a varaition of the Corvette 6L80 called the 6L90 in the X3 and X5.

The Bentley Continental and Arnage (before the VAG redesign) used the 4L80-E.

The 3-series as also used GM auto boxes, not sure which ones though.

 

[Dave A]

I like some GM products but I prefer Ford, to cut it short, because we get far more cars under the Ford umbrell over here than GM car's, also we have the legendary Escort Cossie and the GT40, GT and the rather decent Focus RS, then the worlds finest manufacturer imo, Aston Martin come under Ford's umberella and so dooes Jaguar along with a host of other well known manufacturers. Cheverolet over here is Daewoo (I **** you not, we get the Cheverolet Matiz, oh yeah) and we don't get Pontiac, Saturn etc over here at all.

Over here about 80% of the car's I see are either European manufacturer's or European built Ford's, the rest are mainly Japanese or Korean and proper US car's (as in, not European built Ford's) probably account for about 1% possibly 2% of car's here.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, obviously I am a pretty diehard GM guy when it comes to American automobiles (VAG in any other situation), but I give Ford credit where credit is due. Shal I do a rough comparison?

Economy cars: Ford Europe has the goods in this segment, but here in America, they are still selling the late-'90s Focus that has been out of date for some time now. Sure, the Cobalt and Ion (and upcomming G5) arent necessiarily Icons of their segements, but they did a good job matching the late-model MKIV Jettas and Golfs they were meant to compete with. Of course, the MKVs are on the road now, but there is a great deal of value and economy packaged into the Cobalt and Ion, and that is something that Ford just has not done in the US.

Small Sedan: It is a draw I suppose, and it comes down to your preference between Japanese and European products. On the Ford side of things, the Ford Fusion was developed directly from the allready old Mazda6 parts bin, and although the Fusion has recieved plenty of good marks in the US, it is still a Mazda6 in my book. Over at GM, cars like the Malibu, G6, and Aura are based directly off of the Vectra parts bin, something I would call far superior to the Mazda6. Simply put, it is my belief that the Aura will be one of the best American cars sold in America. Again of course, it comes down to preference.

Mid Mid-Size: Here we have a face off between the Volvo-based Ford Fivehundred and the all-American W-Body cars who's design dates back to the late 1980s. Okay okay, Ford may have the upper hand here, but IMO, with the improvements done to the W-Body over the past two decades, these cars are phenominal. The Buick LaCrosse is a good example of how good the platform can be, but I think the shining stars are the Grand Prix GXP and the Impala SS. With FWD and a small-block Chevy under the hood, the cars can scoot to sixty in 5.5 seconds, match an Infiniti G35 sedan on the track, and only hits the pocketbook at $30,000. Thats where GM dominates this segment, value.

Full-size: It kinda becomes a shootout between the Ford Crown Victoria/ Mercury Grand Marqis and the the Buick Lucerne. To me, the Luxcerne wins out for it's supurb build quality and overall better sound quality for the older folks that buy the cars. I give the Crown Vic credit where credit is due, as the cars still perform impecably well for a very old design.

Luxury: Ha, thats a funny one. Yeah, Ford has Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin, but if we are going to talk the talk, its going to be Cadillac vs Lincoln in this situation. Seriously, do I even have to compare the two?

Sportscars: Well, in this situation it is somewhat of a draw. Untill the Camaro comes out, the Mustang is still king of the cheap sportscar market. I love the current Mustang, there is no way around it. But...... GM has the Corvette, CTS-V, STS-V, and XLR-V. Against the Brits, Germans, and Japanese they have proven themselves over, and over, and over again... But again, credit goes where credit is due... The Jaguar XK, Aston Vantage/DB9, and Ford GT are all wonderful cars.

Trucks: This is a preference thing, and through my biased opinion GM has the better trucks overall. That is of course because they are almost a generation ahead of Ford now with the GMT900 platform, but the GMT360 still falls behind the new Explorer. But, as I said it is a preference thing. The Ford F-150 is still the best selling truck in the United States, and that is a tough feat for GM to match between the Silverado and Sierra pickups.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a purely mechanical standpoint, GM is far superior to Ford. Better engines, transmissions, and often heavier-duty bits and peices in their vehicles make their reliability marks often much higher than that of Ford's in most situations. With the ECOTECs, LS-series V8s, Vortec-Series V6s and V8s, 4L60E and their variants, etc... It isn't even a comparison between Ford and GM.

 

[Master_Yoda]

Ford, cause it's older, and they have (to me) alot better, and nicer cars. Ford GT

 

[Joey D]

Ford was founded in 1903 and General Motors in 1908, 5 years doesn't make a lick of difference.

 

[JCE]

Then explain to me why Fords don't sell? Seriously I live in Michigan, I should see so many Fords and GM's that it isn't even funny. I mean no one should drive anything other then American cars. I seriously see very few Ford products on the road and more GM's, Chryslers, and Toyotas. Ford's sales pretty much suck and there is a reason why, people don't exactly like them for x reason.

Good lord I think the last hatchback I would look at is a Focus, they are such a crappy little car and are extremely outdated...we need the Euro spec one which isn't crappy. And anyone who discredits the Camry has no idea what is going on in this country...it's the best selling car for a reason. Who cares if it doesn't feel sporty, if it sells that good there is something that Toyota is doing right to have so many on the road. I actually like the 07 one.

Just becaue you don't see Fords (or GMs for that matter) on the road where you live does not mean it's like that in the entire country. Taking SUVs and Trucks out of the equasion for a moment I see alot more Ford products around here vs GM. Hell, my neighbor just bought a new Five Hundred. Now let's put in SUVs and Trucks--I see as many Explorers as I do Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon...and the F-series just plain outsells any GM pickup truck bar none--and just to point out I see more Tundras and Titans vs GM trucks on the road. Just because YOU don't like the Focus doesn't mean it's not a good car. It gets great MPG, it's not slow, it has plenty of room in the hatch to haul stuff (I fit a 36" TV back there), the hatchback has room in the back for people 6'2" I know because I hauled 2 friends of mine who ARE 6'2" and 200~230lbs. And incase you didn't know the MKI Focus is European engineered & designed...some were built in Mexico yes (booooooo) but some weren't. Have you driven a European MKII Focus? If you haven't how do you know that it's that much better than the current model--reviews? I don't trust reviews--especially American snotrag reviews. Until I drive the vehicle I can't judge it either way. I do agree that the Camry is a good seller and people buy them for a reason--but seriously you can't tell me it's exciting to own one...they are as boring as it comes in a saloon. The Camry is great at what it does, really good reliability, point A to point b along with some comfort and good MPG--THAT'S IT. Until the Aura comes out most American saloons are rubbish with exception to Fusion, 500, and Impala (I like the new ones). The Mazda6 isn't as tired and old as you guys seem to think. I can't believe some of you are so negative on the Mazda6--it's actually a fabulous car.

 

[skip0110]

On a purely mechanical standpoint, GM is far superior to Ford. Better engines, transmissions, and often heavier-duty bits and peices in their vehicles make their reliability marks often much higher than that of Ford's in most situations. With the ECOTECs, LS-series V8s, Vortec-Series V6s and V8s, 4L60E and their variants, etc... It isn't even a comparison between Ford and GM.

👍

Thats the big thing to me, GM engineers it to survive beyond the expected service interval, whereas in this day an age most things are being built to a lot tighter specifications in the name of economy.

 

[Joey D]

You realize living in Detroit when it comes to this has major pull right? Ford headquaters are in Dearborn, about a 45 minute jaunt from me. GM's is in Detroit, about the same time. Don't you think many of the people who work there live in the Detroit suburbs? I would think so.

You'll never see more Ford's then GM's around, GM makes more cars, therefore you'll see more. Also they own more extended companies making it easier to see them.

The F-Series is a great truck, but it's starting to get out dated. Once the GMT900 Silverado comes out, the F-Series will need to be fixed in order to be better. But for the time being the Tundra is the best truck you can buy hands down.

The Explorer competes with the Trailblazer, not the Tahoe. The Expedition competes with that and it doesn't sell well, especially now that you can get a more refined 07 Tahoe that gets better mileage, has better towing, and more power.

I don't like the Focus because its a crappy car,I honestly have never been in such a bad hatchback before. For a hatchback you really should be looking else where, maybe a Golf which is better all the way around. Plus you get a 130hp hatchback, please that's terriable now adays. Granted the 145hp Cobalt isn't loads better.

I haven't driven a Euro Focus, but based on what Europeans tell me about there European Focus, and from what auto mag (which know more then you or I) tell me, I'm going to say Euro Spec > American Spec.

A Camry maybe boring but most of the buying population could care less about exciting cars. They want reliablity, which is what the Camry offers. I know I wouldn't mind a Camry in my driveway.

The Ford 500 is utter crap, they don't sell. In all the places in the US I've been I can count on one hand how many I've seen. The Fusion is a good car I'll admit, but I would never buy one.

 

[High-Test]

Wow.. This can of worms hasn't been opened already?

That's actually a pretty hard question.


Both have had their share of Technological innovations,

Ford: Assembly line(model T), Mass produced V8(Flathead),Ford started the Pony car craze, Ford killed Boxy 80s styling with the taurus, They made the 1st hybrid SUV,

GM: First mass produced automatic transmission, First mass produced OHV V8, First production Turbocharger, They started the Musce car war,



I'd have to say GM, but not by a huge margin. GM has a tried and true engine fasmily that has its loyal followers. I see lots of Cobalts and G6es where I'm from, and that has to be some indication that GM's cars are selling better. My area is also crawling with Buick Lucernes and LaCrosses, so I don't think that they are as poorly off in sales as it's made out to be. GM has several cars that I think are good looking, and seem like a good value. (G6, Cobalt, Lucerne, LaCrosse, Saab 9-3 and 9-5, new Impala, new Malibu) Ford also has their European edge. Since the Focus, ford has been moving towards european suspension and styling. While they have a winner in the Fusion, Milan, mazda 3 and 5, Zephyr, and the F series and escape that are selling well, The Navigator, 500, Zephyr, Excursion, and Freestyle seem to be selling slow.

Sure, GM might have played a bad gamble on the GMT900, but I think that their new cars will make up for it. Plus, GM is the hottest seller in China, and if GM stays on top, (and the Chinese don't sell unlicensed GM copies) they could use the Chinese market to their advantage.

GM, because the Stovebolt is still alive. Somehow.

EDIT: Blazin, you do realize that Toyota's going to pull a GM on us and have massive recalls and lose customer faith, right? 50,000 lexuses (lexii? ) were just recalled because the seatbelts didn't work. Since Toyota has been in the passing lane, their recalls have increased exponentially.

 

[JCE]

You realize living in Detroit when it comes to this has major pull right? Ford headquaters are in Dearborn, about a 45 minute jaunt from me. GM's is in Detroit, about the same time. Don't you think many of the people who work there live in the Detroit suburbs? I would think so.

Doesn't matter where you live if you see X cars more than Y cars. Take into consideration of income level, area culture, and other such factors. At least that's my opinion.

You'll never see more Ford's then GM's around, GM makes more cars, therefore you'll see more. Also they own more extended companies making it easier to see them.

How can that be?

GM: Chevy, GMC, Buick, Saturn, Daewoo, Cadillac, Saab, Hummer, and Pontiac.

Ford: Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Mazda, and Volvo.

That's according to both Ford's and GM's main US site--so this is a fact. And before you say Oldsmobile they are no longer producing any vehicles so they do not count. So only 1 more for GM--that's not enough to make a point about. I see as many Saabs on the road as Land/Range Rovers so that balances out and I've finally seen 2 DB9's on the road (both in Frisco, TX and both convertables) so that's exactly 2 more DB9's than Ford GT's I've seen driving on the road by people who've bought them. I don't see how you've arrived at your conclusion--but for the sake of diplomacy I'll agree to disagree politely.

The F-Series is a great truck, but it's starting to get out dated. Once the GMT900 Silverado comes out, the F-Series will need to be fixed in order to be better. But for the time being the Tundra is the best truck you can buy hands down.

If any truck is outdated it's GM's current lineup. And UNTIL the new breed of GM trucks comes out the F-series is still superior...thing is even if the new GM trucks comes out Ford will still outsell it because the F-series is the best selling vehicle ever in history. And until GM outsells the F-series it will continue to be this way.

The Explorer competes with the Trailblazer, not the Tahoe. The Expedition competes with that and it doesn't sell well, especially now that you can get a more refined 07 Tahoe that gets better mileage, has better towing, and more power.

The Suburan/Tahoe/Yukon I put in the same catagory because they are basically the same (and the XL models of the Tahoe/Yukon ARE Suburbans underneath) and they DO compete with the Explorer. The Explorer for several years now is just as large as the Suburban and the new Tahoe/Yukon is the same relitive size. The Expedition is completely useless, and I expect Ford to kill it off soon like they did with the Excursion.

I don't like the Focus because its a crappy car,I honestly have never been in such a bad hatchback before. For a hatchback you really should be looking else where, maybe a Golf which is better all the way around. Plus you get a 130hp hatchback, please that's terriable now adays. Granted the 145hp Cobalt isn't loads better.

You can't be serious, rebadged Daewoos win the arguement here. I think your GM bias is a little overpowering your judgement. I do like some GM products and hate some Ford products so my bias is quite a bit less vs yours. If anything I'm biased towards anything European/Japanese/Australian. While the Focus isn't the best Ford hatch (Mazda3 wins that) it's not the worst hatch in America by far. The Aveo is followed by the new Calibur. While Golfs are fantastic--they are also more expensive--but they are worth it. Now for something you do not realize, Ford Motor Credit like GMAC has a "new buyer" program and what that means is the Focus is part of that "new buyer" program...the dealers won't stick that on a more expensive car like a V6 Mustang or Fusion. VAG doesn't have such a program in this aspect so the Golf is out of the price range of "new buyers". I got turned down twice for a base Jetta and Golf but got 2 car loans from FMC back to back. 2 wins for me.

I haven't driven a Euro Focus, but based on what Europeans tell me about there European Focus, and from what auto mag (which know more then you or I) tell me, I'm going to say Euro Spec > American Spec.

The European spec Focus IS better that the US-spec I believe but--that doesn't automatically say the current Focus is crap. I could come up with the same arguement for something GM but I won't--we're beating a dead horse here and I won't comment any further about the Focus issue. I'm finished with this part of the discussion since neither one of us will sway the opinion there is no point in continuing it.

A Camry maybe boring but most of the buying population could care less about exciting cars. They want reliablity, which is what the Camry offers. I know I wouldn't mind a Camry in my driveway.

I just said the reasons why people buy them and you basically agreed with that so why not just say that you agreed with what I said in my previous post?

The Ford 500 is utter crap, they don't sell. In all the places in the US I've been I can count on one hand how many I've seen. The Fusion is a good car I'll admit, but I would never buy one.

There you go again, saying something is crap is an opinion and that can't be the reason why you don't see them. Granted there are better cars in this segment but seriously anything that's Volvo derrived is NOT by ANY means crap. It happens to suffer from the exact same stigma as the Camry--point A to B comfy safe reliable driving.

So now that we've got all the bases covered there's no point in doing the same thing as the Veyron Poll thread because the SAME things will be said over and over and over. I choose not to post further about the silly Focus debate as it's beating a dead horse, and I choose not to post about the 500 because we both just basically said our points and there is no reason to further an arguement when we basically covered all the points. I choose not to post about the "where you live" thing in the first quote because it's rather pointless I think. I choose not to post about the Camry because we basically agree on it and it does not belong in this GM vs Ford thread. GM vs Ford on SUVs and Pickups can continue since there is probably some more to be added here.