Going back to controller

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530
Finland
Finland
Has anyone been a pad player then went to wheel for a while then went back to pad?

I got a T150 about 8 months ago and while I think it's really fun, I find that I can't be bothered most of the time.

Part of it is that I'm nowhere near as fast as I was on pad.
I'm finding the transition from chase cam to bumper cam quite hard to race with.
It's annoying having the seat, wheel and pedals in the way all the time when I'm not using it. If I put it away I'll end up using it even less.
The T150 is not a good wheel. It feels cheap and rough and that goes for build quality and steering feedback. The Pro pedals feels ok I guess but there's not much feeling even with the conical brake mod added. I can't use the force feedback settings anything over 4 for a few hours as it will overheat and turn off. Thrustmaster customer service has been terrible. They are saying it's Amazon UK where I bought it from covers the warranty for 2 years and I should contact them. I know this isn't true as Amazon UK warranty is only a month or something.

I tried using pad again in some daily races a while ago. Last time it was GR4 at Laguna Seca daily race B and I was doing well. I think it's better for wheel to wheel racing with chase cam. The moves I was making were amazing.

One problem about going back to pad is that I think GTS physics have felt terrible for around a year. Extreme understeer introduced in an update made me think something was broken. Thought maybe my pad or my TV which was getting old. I bought a new pad and TV which I was due anyway and it still felt crap obviously. That's another reason I got a wheel. I peaked on pad anyway even though it didn't feel great, so thought why not move on and try and wheel.

So I'm thinking sell the wheel, seat, pedals and PS4. Buy a PS5 and go back to pad for GT7.
 

Winnie847

Premium
1,025
United States
Austin, TX USA
Winnie847
have you tried using the wheel with chase cam? Maybe it's just that camera angle that you are accustomed to. I use a T300 and I've always used chase cam. It's not better or worse than other views, it's just my preference.
 
1,203
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
breeminator
breeminator
The Pro pedals feels ok I guess but there's not much feeling even with the conical brake mod added.
The problem is that the feel you get from any fixed hardware setup like the conical brake mod, or even a load cell brake pedal, doesn't relate to what is happening in the game, it's just a fixed relationship between force and travel. What would be transformational is genuine pedal force feedback in the same way that we have wheel force feedback. I think this is basically what the PS5 controller's triggers have, so pedals are now a bit behind the times.
 
4,763
England
Nelson, England
GTP_ASH32
I'd say don't use force feedback settings over 4 (3 is fine), it doesn't make anything better, the wheel can't really handle it and you'll be much slower, not to mention the overheating it seems to be causing for you.

However if it is a defect with your wheel (and not just too high FF) then contact Amazon, it is their responsibility in the 1st year of purchase without question.

On the pad, I think it'll be very OP in GT7 with the new controller, especially against the cheaper wheels (and even more so pedals), as it's not really a disadvantage now in most races in GtSport.


:gtplanet::cheers:
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
After going through starting from t80, my take now is load cell brake is mandatory for myself, as is a powerful enough belt driven wheel (t300 minimum)
I hope though that controller support will be stellar.
I prefer wheel, but the better controller works the bigger the playerbase.
It’s already good so bring on the OP haptic triggers!
Nobody good cares what anyone uses, they just want fun competition.
For me it’s a shame the level of cost to get really good wheel pedals/large screen/good setup close.
I think GTS should have generalized reccomendations for setups. If you are inventive you don’t need to spend a lot imo but I mean you gotta spend SOME. I wasn’t happy with lower end wheels at all, but once I invested in Fanatec (used even)
and setup my stuff in a good position for me my enjoyment went through the roof.
Jmo the bigger screen the better on ANY control method.
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
I just could not get used to the lack of feel on the pedals when I tried to use a wheel. Had absolutely zero brake feel, was guessing.

People learn to play awesome with a potentiometer based brake, but I couldn’t.
Load cell feels right, natural, before I got one I couldn’t enjoy titles like Dirt Rally 2 or the original AC or PC2...
once I got load cell I was like wow these games aren’t bunk in fact they’re fun.
 
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Pigems

Premium
8,150
Canada
Canada
I'd say don't use force feedback settings over 4 (3 is fine), it doesn't make anything better, the wheel can't really handle it and you'll be much slower, not to mention the overheating it seems to be causing for you.

However if it is a defect with your wheel (and not just too high FF) then contact Amazon, it is their responsibility in the 1st year of purchase without question.

On the pad, I think it'll be very OP in GT7 with the new controller, especially against the cheaper wheels (and even more so pedals), as it's not really a disadvantage now in most races in GtSport.


:gtplanet::cheers:

If pads become OP in GT7, there is gonna be a lot of pissed of people I think, and you’re not even allowed to use one at a world tour event.
 
4,763
England
Nelson, England
GTP_ASH32
If pads become OP in GT7, there is gonna be a lot of pissed of people I think, and you’re not even allowed to use one at a world tour event.

Oh yes there will be lots of complaints. I'd (as anyone would) complain too if I'd spent thousands on a setup and it was a worse control method than a standard controller. :nervous:

It's just controller support has got so good that any improvement, even something small (and haptic triggers should be bigger than a small improvement) could tip the balance in it's favour unless some of the current in-built assistance is revisited and even then that could just end up removing some of the disadvantages of the pad. :nervous:


:gtplanet::cheers:
 
530
Finland
Finland
Only a few laps... however owning a PS5 I think GT7 could be pretty decent with a controller due to the haptic triggers.

I use those buttons for gears. I use the right stick for brake and accelerate.

have you tried using the wheel with chase cam? Maybe it's just that camera angle that you are accustomed to. I use a T300 and I've always used chase cam. It's not better or worse than other views, it's just my preference.

Tried but felt awful. The understeer physics of GTS doesn't feel good with chase cam and wheel with whatever the standard rotation is set to. I would lower the rotation when racing Super Formula which helped a lot though. Bit of course pretty annoying having to set it all the time with the T150.

The problem is that the feel you get from any fixed hardware setup like the conical brake mod, or even a load cell brake pedal, doesn't relate to what is happening in the game, it's just a fixed relationship between force and travel. What would be transformational is genuine pedal force feedback in the same way that we have wheel force feedback. I think this is basically what the PS5 controller's triggers have, so pedals are now a bit behind the times.

I think the conical brake mod does what it's supposed to do especially if using a softer rubber. The stock mod is very hard and doesn't give much feel. If I was happy with everything else I would definitely invest in trying out different mods with more travel and then experiment with how much force I want to set.

I'd say don't use force feedback settings over 4 (3 is fine), it doesn't make anything better, the wheel can't really handle it and you'll be much slower, not to mention the overheating it seems to be causing for you.

However if it is a defect with your wheel (and not just too high FF) then contact Amazon, it is their responsibility in the 1st year of purchase without question.

On the pad, I think it'll be very OP in GT7 with the new controller, especially against the cheaper wheels (and even more so pedals), as it's not really a disadvantage now in most races in GtSport.


:gtplanet::cheers:

I think you're right that 3 and 4 give perfectly good balance. I've never understood why people want so strong, we aren't back in the days with no power steering! I tried it up high while experimenting and it doesn't feel great. And yeah it overheated 3 times so not good.

After going through starting from t80, my take now is load cell brake is mandatory for myself, as is a powerful enough belt driven wheel (t300 minimum)
I hope though that controller support will be stellar.
I prefer wheel, but the better controller works the bigger the playerbase.
It’s already good so bring on the OP haptic triggers!
Nobody good cares what anyone uses, they just want fun competition.
For me it’s a shame the level of cost to get really good wheel pedals/large screen/good setup close.
I think GTS should have generalized reccomendations for setups. If you are inventive you don’t need to spend a lot imo but I mean you gotta spend SOME. I wasn’t happy with lower end wheels at all, but once I invested in Fanatec (used even)
and setup my stuff in a good position for me my enjoyment went through the roof.
Jmo the bigger screen the better on ANY control method.

Yeah it's mental how much the better wheels cost. I really thought I would be getting something of quality when I bought the T150 Pro brand new for around £230 I think it was. Tried to push my disappointment to the side when I was setting it up as it felt like a child's toy. The Playseat Challenge I got along at the same time is also lacking. The stand has a lot of vertical movement and the wheel plate leaves a lot to be desired. That was around £200 as well. My new TV is the dogs bollocks though, really lucked in with it.

I just could not get used to the lack of feel on the pedals when I tried to use a wheel. Had absolutely zero brake feel, was guessing.

That's the way I feel with both pedals. I think I prefer to play the "game" via a pad, rather than the "sim" with this wheel set up. To be fair it's not just the wheel set up that's lacking, GTS as a sim isn't exactly great either. Cockpit view is terrible and the alternatives if roof cam and bumper cam aren't suitable.
 
364
Canada
Leafs Nation
deviln3
I used a wheel for a while but my place is too small and I couldn't bother with setting it up just to play gran turismo so I stopped playing the game.

Went back to using the controller and sold the wheel for profit.

It was hard to get to used to the wheel with bumper cam, so I used chase cam instead.
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
The problem is that the feel you get from any fixed hardware setup like the conical brake mod, or even a load cell brake pedal, doesn't relate to what is happening in the game, it's just a fixed relationship between force and travel. What would be transformational is genuin

Fanatec load cell is fabulous. Like a real car, intuitive.

I just could not get used to the lack of feel on the pedals when I tried to use a wheel. Had absolutely zero brake feel, was guessing


Me too on a potentiometer brake.


Tried but felt awful. The understeer physics of GTS doesn't feel good with chase cam and wheel with whatever the standard rotation is set to. I would lower the rotation when racing Super Formula which helped a lot though. Bit of course pretty annoying having to set it all the time with t


Lowering rotation makes understeer worse because you need to turn more with the brake pedal and LESS with steering input to get the rotation.
Lots of people do the opposite what they should when troubleshooting understeer. People induce it by their inputs. Both on pad and wheel.
Helpful to look at real world info.

That's the way I feel with both pedals. I think I prefer to play the "game" via a pad, rather than the "sim" with this wheel set up. To be fair it's not just the wheel set up that's lacking, GTS as a sim isn't exactly great either. Cockpit view is terrible and the alternatives if roof cam and bumper cam aren't suitable

This experience is why I say guys need a better setup. Cockpit works great if you have the screen size and things in right places...In fact you have much more information about the cars attitude and amount of rotation and can see readily just how much effect the slightest input changes have. From the other views it’s sort of guesswork imo.
Like I said Polyphony should give setup guidelines.
Jmo but a good setup unlocks the game. Shame is it takes a little work, and good peripherals cost a little more. If you play a lot of hours though and factor the cost vs time it makes sense imo.
I mean you could do cheapest 55 or bigger screen set it on a table, then use a wheelstand or do like I did and make a simple rig..
Some company needs to come up with a simple quality package imo for a reasonable cost...
With GOOD lc pedals and a belt driven good wheel...
 
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1,055
Australia
Australia
The_Tullster
If pads become OP in GT7, there is gonna be a lot of pissed of people I think, and you’re not even allowed to use one at a world tour event.
Pads will never be OP, but they are very likely to be easier to learn for newcomers. This is especially true for newcomers who have played other racing games on pad, and even more so for those who've not got much experience in real cars.
 

Winnie847

Premium
1,025
United States
Austin, TX USA
Winnie847

chase cam is the view from behind the car, as if you are "chasing" it. From chase cam you can see the entire car, and also a little bit behind it. So if somebody is following very closely you can also see the front of their car from chase cam. It also allows you to see better on the sides of your car for very close racing without contact.

@tomaso777
 
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28
South Africa
Pretoria, Gauteng
JayDoubl-O_Pace
Yeap, usually the wheel is for that immersive feel, I've struggled to grasp on to the wheel (got a G29) and as much as my pace is on par with it, my qualifying has dropped significantly, only race pace has improved, especially tyre management but with the decision to use the wheel for ACC, might just manoeuvre between Pad and Wheel.

Plus I'm intrigued to experience the new triggers on GT7.
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
The problem with a pad in GTS is there is so much assists. On a wheel you must steer on your own I guess. Learning curve for a pad is very low and high for the wheel. I hope they'll allow to disable all helpers in GT7 for a pad.

I choose wheel and cockpit view. I also am so glad the game is so playable on the controller that Sony provides with the console. This means that more can enjoy online racing.
If haptic feedback and an evolved better controller improve pad players on PS5 to me it seems like a huge win for everyone.
The more the merrier in terms of players online.
I think it would be very easy for Polyphony to make a game no one enjoys by doing what you say.
Plus, the pad cones with the console!
I’m for the best pad control available because it means better faster cleaner online racing and more fun for all.
It also means more profits to reinvest into the game.
Win win win
 
571
Czech Republic
Czech Republic
I choose wheel and cockpit view. I also am so glad the game is so playable on the controller that Sony provides with the console. This means that more can enjoy online racing.
If haptic feedback and an evolved better controller improve pad players on PS5 to me it seems like a huge win for everyone.
The more the merrier in terms of players online.
I think it would be very easy for Polyphony to make a game no one enjoys by doing what you say.
Plus, the pad cones with the console!
I’m for the best pad control available because it means better faster cleaner online racing and more fun for all.
It also means more profits to reinvest into the game.
Win win win
Yeah, but you can do it like Forza and have some assists optional. GTS feels like some arcade racer with that controls which is not good. GTS is great game otherwise!
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
Yeah, but you can do it like Forza and have some assists optional. GTS feels like some arcade racer with that controls which is not good. GTS is great game otherwise!

Yeah. I wasn’t thinking of a player on controller that wants their inputs 1-1 accurate. Yeah that makes total sense.
 
571
Czech Republic
Czech Republic
I never bought the suggestion that controllers give the user an advantage.
Do 90% of the world's elite racers use wheel because they want to handicap themselves? :odd:
It's not that simple. Many people mean car games = wheel. I don't like that approach. Other problem is you don't steer too much in GTS on a controller on your own. It's pretty easy tho. So a wheel is the only option for precise steering. And if you are talking about elite racers they probably want to steer :D

And controller is easy for beginners, which is unfair to advanced wheel users.
 
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sturk0167

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Nor Cal
sturk0167
It's not that simple. Many people mean car games = wheel. I don't like that approach. Other problem is you don't steer too much in GTS on a controller on your own. It's pretty easy tho. So a wheel is the only option for precise steering. And if you are talking about elite racers they probably want to steer :D

And controller is easy for beginners, which is unfair to advanced wheel users.
I guess I don't understand what you mean.
Like most people I started by racing with a controller. I played GTS with it for at least a year and a half before buying a new G29 wheel.
For me, it was awful. I disliked it very much. I think that it was defective, because there was like a dead zone when I had the wheel centered on a straight. There was no way for me to keep the car driving in a straight line.
I stuffed it back in the box and put it in my closet.

About 6 months later, I figured I'd try again, and bought a new T300. The steering felt a lot more precise that the Logitech wheel.
I did a lot of practice with it, but still was quite a bit slower than with the controller.
Also, being in a small apartment, it became arduous to keep setting up the rig, and then breaking it down to move it out of the way.
The T300 is now back in its box, too. :lol:

I guess I could've eventually gotten better with the wheel, but I just didn't really like it.

I don't think any method of control input is better. Individuals will just find one that is best suited for them.
 
571
Czech Republic
Czech Republic
I guess I don't understand what you mean.
Like most people I started by racing with a controller. I played GTS with it for at least a year and a half before buying a new G29 wheel.
For me, it was awful. I disliked it very much. I think that it was defective, because there was like a dead zone when I had the wheel centered on a straight. There was no way for me to keep the car driving in a straight line.
I stuffed it back in the box and put it in my closet.

About 6 months later, I figured I'd try again, and bought a new T300. The steering felt a lot more precise that the Logitech wheel.
I did a lot of practice with it, but still was quite a bit slower than with the controller.
Also, being in a small apartment, it became arduous to keep setting up the rig, and then breaking it down to move it out of the way.
The T300 is now back in its box, too. :lol:

I guess I could've eventually gotten better with the wheel, but I just didn't really like it.

I don't think any method of control input is better. Individuals will just find one that is best suited for them.
Yeah, probably. My point is it's easier to use a pad because game helps you a lot. Nothing more. The problem with GTS is you can't disable much helpers.

OP has a problem with a wheel because it needs some training. Pad helps you. It's not comparable because you steer on one and not on other. That's all.
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
I’m a beginner on pad. To me it’s far harder to use a pad than a wheel.
@sturk0167 has seen me on pad. I find it next to impossible to keep a racecar between the lines much less actually complete a fast lap or race others.
So, to me, this theory that pad is easy doesn’t hold water.
To me pad is very difficult, and wheel is a huge advantage because of ease of use lmao.
It’s why I believe each persons different, but we can all compete in fair races online.
I think that’s pretty special, personally.
 
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sturk0167

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United States
Nor Cal
sturk0167
It's not comparable because you steer on one and not on other.
That just isn't true.
I have logged @4,600 Sport mode races, and still encounter problems all the time because of steering errors. It is physically easier to steer with a controller, because I just need to move my left thumb a little bit. Try some races with a controller, and see if you need to steer.
 
571
Czech Republic
Czech Republic
I’m a beginner on pad. To me it’s far harder to use a pad than a wheel.
@sturk0167 has seen me on pad. I find it next to impossible to keep a racecar between the lines much less actually complete a fast lap or race others.
So, to me, this theory that pad is easy doesn’t hold water.
To me pad is very difficult, and wheel is a huge advantage because of ease of use lmao.
It’s why I believe each persons different, but we can all compete in fair races online.
I think that’s pretty special, personally.
OK, probably not complete beginners but it's far from driving a car. Wheel is good because of precision. I don't know how many hours do you need but GTS has very easy controls to start with on a pad.

That just isn't true.
I have logged @4,600 Sport mode races, and still encounter problems all the time because of steering errors. It is physically easier to steer with a controller, because I just need to move my left thumb a little bit. Try some races with a controller, and see if you need to steer.
The problem is with helpers you don't have on a wheel. That's what I am talking about. And yes, you move the stick but game steers most of the move. And GTS has big car stabilization on a pad but I guess you need to stabilize on your own on a wheel. And you have counter-steering assist too. It's completely different difficulty on a wheel.

If you want better skill it's better to start steering more on a controller. What other games do you have? FM7 is far harder (less assists) but good step to start with.
 

sturk0167

Premium
3,947
United States
Nor Cal
sturk0167
The problem is with helpers you don't have on a wheel. That's what I am talking about. And yes, you move the stick but game steers most of the move. And GTS has big car stabilization on a pad but I guess you need to stabilize on your own on a wheel. And you have counter-steering assist too.

Not looking to appear adversarial, but I don't understand any of this. I have heard a few people talk about the same thing, but I don't believe it's true, because it's just been assertions.
Is there some evidence of steering assistance from the controllers?