Going Faster - Journey from Beginner to Intermediate

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Fosterions

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My intention/hope is to post videos of five lap Time Trials here to get constructive feedback on line, cornering, braking, whatever. I will start with real world tracks, but may go into the Fantasy ones. Thank you to all that take the time to look and offer advice! :) Anyway, the stats:

Fanatec CSL with Elite Pedals with a Pool noodle for a brake sponge (no load cell)
911 RSR with BOP on
TCS 0
ABS weak
Brake Balance -3 - that seems to be my happy point
Tires RS

Wheel and controller settings:
Code: 
a) On GTS config:
- Wheel turning sensitivity: 2
- FFB Torque: 9 !!!
- FFB sensitivity: 10
b) On Fanatec Wheel Config:
- Sen: AUT
- FF: 100
- SHO:100
- ABS: OFF
- DRI: OFF
- FOR: 40
- SPR: 100
- DPR: 100
- BRF: Off (or 10)
- FEI: 090

The first video is of Monza and shows the set up. I won't include that in subsequent videos. I didn't do a warm up before doing this so my first lap is pretty ragged (I usually require a few laps before I get into a groove).

Monza Attempt #1 January 8, 2019 (No longer Available)
Best: 1:50.449,
Optimal: 1:49.957
Average: 1:51.351 (not including first lap)

Monza Attempt #2 January 14, 2019 (No Longer Available)
Best: 1:50.117
Optimal: 1:49.724
Average: 1:50.589 (not including first lap)

Best Lap Delta: .332 seconds
Best Optimum Delta: .233 seconds
Average Delta: .762 seconds

:grumpy:

Monza Attempt #3 February 6, 2019 Unrecorded
Best: 1:49.397 using the same setup as above for consistency except for ABS Default and CSL Elite SEN set to 45ish... maybe 50. Around there.

Austria Attempt #1 January 14, 2019 (No Longer Available)
Best: 1:32.796
Optimal: 1:32.636
Average: 1:33.745 (Not including first lap)

Austria Attempt #2 January 29, 2019
Best: 1:32.739
Optimal: 1:32.560
Didn't calculate because the times sucked so bad I didn't care. :irked:

Austria Attempt #3 February 7, 2019. Unrecorded.
Best: 1:31.687
Optimal: 1:31.203
CSL Elite wheel setting SEN Changed to 45(I think) and previously it was AUT & ABS is now Default.

So, nice!! Wheel setting and more practice has bagged me over a second!

Once again, 911 RSR, TC0, ABS weak, RH tires. I've moved my brake bias to +1 since the update, I seem to like that better though I'm no faster.

Since attempt one I have recorded a 1:31.58, but that could be with RS tires. I dunno, thanks for the race detail and info Polyphony! :banghead: I tried recording a set of five before this set, but I wiped out on the third lap so I did the recording for attempt #2. I did a 1:32.054 in that set before the wipeout. Only excuse I have is my kid interrupted me for the set you see here.
 
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Step 1: Turn off the cones.

You are relying on them for your braking markers but they are 10-20m from the real braking point so you are slowing down too early for the corner.

Step 2: Either brake, or accelerate.

Through the Lesmo's you are trailing both brake and accelerator. Picking up the throttle early in those corners works well, but not if you are still on the brakes.

Step 3: Learn to trail brake.

Parabolica is a great example here. You can brake 40m later with a heavy foot, then back off as you are turning in and then go again.
 
Xlxy90
Step 1: Turn off the cones.
Click to expand...

From launch I always had cones turned off. I enabled them one day for races at Le Mans (specifically to help with Chapelle and Arnage) and I can't believe people play with these cones on.

Specifically, the fact that when you run them over, they either shoot your car into the stratosphere, throw you off the line, or spin you out completely. I don't know how there aren't way more complaints about these cones. I get it, avoid road hazards - but halfway through a race these landmine cones are all over the place. Is this GT or Wipeout?

anyway, I concur.
 
Xlxy90
Step 1: Turn off the cones.

You are relying on them for your braking markers but they are 10-20m from the real braking point so you are slowing down too early for the corner.
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THIS. The preset braking markers have been set for someone that has never played a driving game before. Besides, they're completely and utterly irrelevant as there is so many variables that effect where you should be braking. Unless you're out front, or find yourself in considerable space, and you are massively consistent then your brake points will be different every lap anyway.

The one, related, tip I can give regards braking is to find your own absolute last/late braking points and then start braking a couple of metres before them. Since adopting this approach I've found my lap times have got far (far!) better. In the misguided belief that staying off the brakes longer (thus being at a higher speed longer) meant I'd be faster, I'd go into every corner like I was trying to outbrake myself on every lap and I'd just end up getting slower and slower (times). Doing this meant I was on a knife edge every single lap, with absolutely no margin for error or room to compensate and, far more importantly, my exit speed was massively compromised. Pulling your braking points back just a fraction gives allows you to be smoother; and its completely true what "they" say: a smooth lap, that looks slow/boring/uneventful, is often the fastest. I'd often watch top 10 Sport Mode replays and be amazed their lap times are faster than mine yet looked much slower.

By doing this my own lap times fell not by tenths of a second but whole seconds!
 
Sigh, I will remove the cones. All good points above regarding them and they’re the last of my assists besides ABS weak. So, with the above advice in mind I practiced a bit with the cones off and trying to make sure I’m not dragging my foot on the accelerator while trying to trail brake and I managed to post a best time of 1:49.758. This is not only faster than my previous best but also faster than my previous optimal. My new optimal time is 1:49.320. I’m not going to calculate the average as it was pretty messy between removing the cones and testing braking points.
 
Best: 1:48.796
Optimal: 1:48.481

I’m fairly happy with that. I’ve taken nearly two seconds off in just a day. Thanks for the help peeps!

What gear are you guys entering Ascari in? I entered in 3rd for that best lap.

I’ve also gotta figure out what my metric is for moving onto another track. One per week maybe? A friend of mine is decently faster than I am, if I can get him to do this I might use him as benchmark. Or some times here if anyone participates.
 
Fosterions
I did a bit of back to back running today between ABS default and weak and find I’m faster on the weak setting.
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Weak is good if you are only braking in a straight line or not driving with tyre wear on. It will teach you brake control and modulation but can bring you undone if you are lobby/sport racing and panic brake.
 
I thought weak was weak but default set correctly based on the car? Probably wrong though.

My tip for learning tracks is don’t teach yourself to overdrive. What I mean is slow down, a lot..
hit every Apex and maximise the full width of the circuit. Most fail here as the temptation is to always speed up to quickly. Lap after lap the same mistakes until the mistakes become muscle memory.
Go slow, real slow and concentrate on those Apexes and slow corners before long straights.
Slowly increase speed each lap and keep hitting those Apexes.
This approach means you have time to look for braking markers and turn in points. You can really get to know a circuit better with 10 slower perfect line laps by increasing speed just a little each lap over what you gain by hurtling off track and missing all braking points and Apexes by putting your foot down and winging it from the get go.

The trade off is that it’s boring and slow initially but you benefit in the long run.
 
Trux
I thought weak was weak but default set correctly based on the car? Probably wrong though.

My tip for learning tracks is don’t teach yourself to overdrive. What I mean is slow down, a lot..
hit every Apex and maximise the full width of the circuit. Most fail here as the temptation is to always speed up to quickly. Lap after lap the same mistakes until the mistakes become muscle memory.
Go slow, real slow and concentrate on those Apexes and slow corners before long straights.
Slowly increase speed each lap and keep hitting those Apexes.
This approach means you have time to look for braking markers and turn in points. You can really get to know a circuit better with 10 slower perfect line laps by increasing speed just a little each lap over what you gain by hurtling off track and missing all braking points and Apexes by putting your foot down and winging it from the get go.

The trade off is that it’s boring and slow initially but you benefit in the long run.
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And learn on Hard tyres.
 
I have a book called ‘Going Faster’ mastering the art of race driving which I picked up a few years ago when I was racing quite seriously.
It’s got some pretty good stuff in.
I remember being a few seconds off the faster guys over a lap at Sebring a few years back. Even when we were all in Skip Barbers and I felt I was pushing the car to it’s absolute limit.

I followed some real basic advice in that book along the lines of;

Ask a beginner if they can shave 1 second off their lap time after they just pulled 15 - 20 laps hard at it and they look at you like your some sort of moron.
Ask them they could gain upto a tenth per corner at a track like Sebring by ensuring they hit every apex and maximise exit speed and they find it hard to argue with.

Within a few laps of trying it myself by slowing right down and slowly increasing my speed whilst always perfectly hitting every apex the car was no longer being overdriven, inputs were smoother and those tenths start to come as speed slowly increased. The car also felt much happier with the smoother inputs.
Maximising the track limits and braking points, adjusting a few feet at a time and paying special attention to slow corners onto long acceleration zones. I learned quickly that the book was teaching me well.

A tenth per corner is easily achievable for a beginner at a track like Sebring and considering it’s got 17 corners That’s a whole 1.7 seconds a lap quicker than before.

I remember thinking how reading a book not only made me faster but helped me understand the car a lot more. Of course there were some corners I already had nailed but on others I gained several tenths and my lap times dropped considerably.
Of course these days I’m older and a lot less serious but it's still quite often that I have to remind myself that to be faster I gotta initially go slower.
 
Fosterions
I did a bit of back to back running today between ABS default and weak and find I’m faster on the weak setting.
Click to expand...

I think ABS weak is faster most of the time. It gives a firmer more consistent braking action but will still skid if braking too late. Very satisfying when you get it right. ABS Default is some sort of virtual mumbo jumbo combination of brakes and traction control which does its best at making the braking action easier without skidding. Some car/track combos, such as a big, heavy street car on sport tires, can benefit from ABS Default. But find practicing on harder tires with ABS weak is better to learn the characteristics of the car.
 
I've always used the cones but just used them as a guide, i.e. learn for each car where you have to break in relation to the cones, I find this useful especially for very fast corners.

One question I have is about doing your own gears, does it make much of a difference? I've tried to do them and can manage in qualifying on some simple tracks but once the race starts there is too much going on and I end up getting into the wrong gear so out of frustration I switch back to auto.
 
CliveH
I've always used the cones but just used them as a guide, i.e. learn for each car where you have to break in relation to the cones, I find this useful especially for very fast corners.

One question I have is about doing your own gears, does it make much of a difference? I've tried to do them and can manage in qualifying on some simple tracks but once the race starts there is too much going on and I end up getting into the wrong gear so out of frustration I switch back to auto.
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For me it's more muscle memory. I know that in this car, on this corner, I should be this gear and by the end of my braking I need to be in that gear. A quick glance at the suggested gear before the braking marker helps. On fresh tyres it's recommended gear +1, worn tyres its normally what the recommended gear says.

Try and stick with manual as much as you can, it helps with braking by slowing the car down with the engine as well as brakes. On corner exit if you get a bit of wheel spin you can snap up a gear early.
 
CliveH
I've always used the cones but just used them as a guide, i.e. learn for each car where you have to break in relation to the cones, I find this useful especially for very fast corners.

One question I have is about doing your own gears, does it make much of a difference? I've tried to do them and can manage in qualifying on some simple tracks but once the race starts there is too much going on and I end up getting into the wrong gear so out of frustration I switch back to auto.
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Never, ever switch to automatic gears, there is a reason for race cars having sequential (and before manual H-shift) gearboxes. And that reason is very simple: an automatic gearbox makes you slower, when breaking, with manual gears you can use engine breaking much more efficiently.
I've driven both manual and auto gear cars in real life, auto is great for cruising, it's luxurious and more relaxed, which obviously are not characteristics you'd ask for when you're going to take the car around a race track.
 
Try to use the distance markers on the track instead of cones for braking. The cones are however a good measure for apexes, and when to start accelerating from said apex.
During the learning curve, always use hard tyres, since the softer ones provides a false sense of security - and IMO, too much grip.
One important thing is load transfer, and how to maintain grip while utilising that transfer. A good track to practise that is Brands Hatch GP.
 
DJShadesUK
its completely true what "they" say: a smooth lap, that looks slow/boring/uneventful, is often the fastest. I'd often watch top 10 Sport Mode replays and be amazed their lap times are faster than mine yet looked much slower.
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My favourite scene in WEEKEND OF A CHAMPION is when Jackie Stewart explains Roman Polanski his smooth driving style, just after having made pole in Monaco, where on Polanski just laughs and says "you looked the slowest!..."
 
Hello :),

I would say having your ABS set to Default is the fastest way. Also like its been said before. when you watch a fast time back on replay it should look easy.

I would say you are turning into the corners to early, and one of the biggest things in GT is to bleed off the brake just before APEX.
 
CliveH
I've always used the cones but just used them as a guide, i.e. learn for each car where you have to break in relation to the cones, I find this useful especially for very fast corners.

One question I have is about doing your own gears, does it make much of a difference? I've tried to do them and can manage in qualifying on some simple tracks but once the race starts there is too much going on and I end up getting into the wrong gear so out of frustration I switch back to auto.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
The cones should only be used as a guide and not for the actual moment you should apply the brake. Different cars and tires can all have different brake points so use the cones as a guide to brake earlier or later than the cone markers.
Once you have establish your cars braking zone then start to look for natural markings on the track to judge your braking. Then turn off the cones.
It's a good tool to use for people who are new to the game or for learning new DLC tracks & cars.
 
Thank you for all the responses, in a couple/few days I’m going to do another set of laps at Monza to record improvement and pick another track to try and get specific advice on. I can say that I am faster now overall and enjoying the game further from the advice above.

Until I do that I wanted to share a few thoughts as I’ve tried to take a more deliberate approach to improving rather than just grinding out laps. @Xlxy90’s tips in the first response have been extremely helpful.

  1. Remove the cones. It’s been said several times in this thread and I regret not doing it earlier. They should be used for pure beginners. Someone completely new to racing. If you know the definition of an apex and trail braking I don’t think cones are necessary beyond a track introduction. To each their own if one wants to leave them on, but I think @Trux advice for learning a track is going to be my method from now on. Once I turned them off and stopped looking for them or guessing where they were I was racing the track and my opponents instead of timing my actions based on pylon location as guidelines. It was an epiphany for me. The focus changed to the track and the car. I’m also looking further ahead then I was with the cones on. Turning them off has allowed me to do that better. My focus is down the road not the side of the road. Not only has my technique improved by removing the cones, but I’m enjoying the experience more because it feels more immersive. I’m more IN the environment. Removing the cones really changed Tsukuba for me, it was ok before, now much more enjoyable. That said I’m not sure I’ll take them off for the Nordschleife... yet.
  2. Trail braking. I thought I was. And maybe I was a little sometimes, but someone said something above about it being ok to stay on the brakes longer that really clicked for me (I’ll quote it properly for credit when I’m not on mobile) and now, when it makes sense, I’m staying on the brakes right to the apex and then getting right on the throttle, smoothly enough not to spin of course, but aggressively. I used to brake until nearly the apex and then coast through the apex then apply throttle post apex. Now if I’m not on the brakes I’m on the throttle, no coasting. Also, because I’m on the brakes longer now I am usually braking later so actually going faster longer along the straight and/or I’m not easing off the brakes too early in the corner and coasting through the apex too quickly in, usually a ragged, attempt to maintain speed. This is the very point of slow in fast out! I’ve been using Austria as well as Monza to practice this and it’s working very effectively both in the hard braking corners and the faster corners. I think I’ve shaved well over a second off my times with just the last two corners in Austria. This experiment has changed my braking quite a bit for the better and made it more fun.
These two things have had a pretty big impact on my times in the game everywhere I’ve tried them. Plus, as @Xlxy90 suggested, being cleaner getting off the throttle when braking. My seating position isn’t great for now so moving my foot off the throttle means I have to move my foot in a slightly uncomfortable way. It’s an excuse and fixable. That said, a bit more pedal resistance from the CSL pedals would be nice so I could tell by feel when I am all the way off or on the pedal slightly. I think I’ve gone through corners too quickly because I’ve dragged the throttle a tiny bit. I think this is mostly a me problem because of how I was sitting, not a beginner to intermediate thing.

Lastly, I believe if you’re using automatic you’re firmly in the novice phase of your racing experience. As with the pylons, the short term pain and slowness of living without the aid until you figure it out will pay off in the long run.
 
Here’s a playlist made by a fellow gtp member, all about how to become an “alien”. It starts with an intro, and then breaks down cornering into different segments, namely Initial Braking Input, Trail Braking, Apex, Exit, along with some other videos talking about specific types of corners like chicanes. Just a note, on the playlist, the intro is the last video, and then Initial Braking is the top video on the playlist.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8vLMSxw70-zJCq0cy1_lCpgomHWd0w5i

They’re made in pcars, but the same basic principles apply to GTS, or any racing game for that matter.

The same guy has other video series that cover various aspects of tuning, overtaking, General race craft, and more.
 
This is really bizarre! To track progression I took a video of another attempt at Monza this morning and am comparing the times from the first session and the ones, allegedly, achieved in the interim and I can find no proof of my Best: 1:48.796 & Optimal: 1:48.481 posted above. I was in a party chat when I posted that time with a friend as we both lapped Monza stating our times. I have no idea why this isn't recorded anywhere. I can't find a screenshot or a photo taken with the phone. I have no desire to lie to myself or this board with this stuff, clearly as I post this now, but that said, I can't find proof so I guess it didn't happen! :( Have any of you seen this before? Times disappearing? Beginning to think I should record everything. Anyway.....

To add insult to injury I'm not driving very well today and here are my results for today's laps:

Monza Attempt #2 January 14, 2019
Best: 1:50.117
Previous: 1:50.449
Optimal: 1:49.724
Previous: 1:49.957
Average: 1:50.589 (not including first lap)
Previous: 1:51.351 (not including first lap)

The best I have record of 1:49.758 & an optimal of 1:49.320

Sigh. :rolleyes::banghead::lol: So, after a lot of practice and introspection you too can gain three tenths in a week! :ouch: The silver lining here is that I have reduced my average by almost a second.... yay. :|
 
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Same car, only difference is I am now on Racing Hard tires as suggested above. Admittedly that took some getting used to!

Austria Attempt #1 January 14, 2019
Best: 1:32.796
Optimal: 1:32.636
Average: 1:33.745 (Not including first lap)

This is pretty ragged stuff as I never use Hard tires except when forced to in Sport, then my dumb bum wonders why it's so different.... anyway. I will spend more time using Hard tires. But there we go folks, round 2. Thank you for your help!
 
Fosterions
Same car, only difference is I am now on Racing Hard tires as suggested above. Admittedly that took some getting used to!

Austria Attempt #1 January 14, 2019
Best: 1:32.796
Optimal: 1:32.636
Average: 1:33.745 (Not including first lap)

This is pretty ragged stuff as I never use Hard tires except when forced to in Sport, then my dumb bum wonders why it's so different.... anyway. I will spend more time using Hard tires. But there we go folks, round 2. Thank you for your help!
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Mix up your cars as well as your tracks. Being familiar with different cars helps you adapt as well.

Try a FR (Jag/Aston) Group 4 around Yamagiwa +Myabi combo track, MR around Big Willow then FR around Big Willow and notice how different cars produce different strengths.
 
Xlxy90
Mix up your cars as well as your tracks. Being familiar with different cars helps you adapt as well.

Try a FR (Jag/Aston) Group 4 around Yamagiwa +Myabi combo track, MR around Big Willow then FR around Big Willow and notice how different cars produce different strengths.
Click to expand...


Yeah, absolutely, I do, part of the practice is using other cars on other tracks. The idea of using the Porsche at all the tracks through this exercise is to minimize variables for the actual improvements that I can apply across all variables.
 
This exercise is not yet over! :dunce: I spent some time in Assetto Corsa and then some time after the latest physics update doing campaign racing instead of hot laps. Liking the update. That said, with the bit of hot lapping I have done I have yet to post a faster time at Monza and am having a real hard time getting below 1:50. I feel like I’m plateauing again after having made the progress from removing the cones. I have a hunch the most time will be found in my braking and then lines. I don’t think I use the track limits to their potential.

When I do campaign race I have been spending a lot of that time in the gr 3 race in Austria. I think I’ve been getting better there since I posted the video above. I will try and record a follow up five laps in the next couple days. It is a bit of an uneven comparison because of the physics update, but I think there are differences in track approach that may be worth noting.
 

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