Good Project car between $5K & $15K?

[backspace]

I basically want it to be a track car, but is also open to being driven out on the road.

The only advantage of the Auto is using it to drive there, though since track events are normally over an hour away. But the reason I'm looking at Autos on M3's of all cars is because they are the cheapest M's available. Manual models go up to $15K & higher, but the mileage on them is higher than I'd like for my money. You may have missed it, but if I find a great car with decent mileage and a great price, I'm not going to back away because it's Auto.

In fact, I plan to keep this car to the point where I'd swap the transmission if it was an auto. When I want this to be a car I'll be keeping for a long time, I mean a long time.

Regarding 2 doors instead of 4-doors, I do realize the 2-door will be superior, but after watching videos of a DTM-tuned 4-door, I am confident I can still turn the 4-door into a fast car.

Once your comfortable, driving a manual is no hassle. Don't let the fact that you might be taking the occasional long trip turn you off from the idea. I wouldn't recommend a manual car to someone stuck in 2+ hours of bumper to bumper traffic every day, but long trips are no sweat. I really do think you'll eventually regret buying an automatic if you intend to make this a fun car.

I've got a friend with a 95 E36 M3. He found his in the 12-13K range and it was in great condition. 2 door, manual, and some dinan upgrades. I wouldn't "settle" for a car if I was in your shoes, I'd wait for the right one.

 

[McLaren]

Once your comfortable, driving a manual is no hassle. Don't let the fact that you might be taking the occasional long trip turn you off from the idea. I wouldn't recommend a manual car to someone stuck in 2+ hours of bumper to bumper traffic every day, but long trips are no sweat. I really do think you'll eventually regret buying an automatic if you intend to make this a fun car.

I've got a friend with a 95 E36 M3. He found his in the 12-13K range and it was in great condition. 2 door, manual, and some dinan upgrades. I wouldn't "settle" for a car if I was in your shoes, I'd wait for the right one.

Driving a manual is no problem for me. But as I said, I'll settle for an auto if I need to. I know there's been times where I've searched for the right car, but realized I should have settled for something else I saw earlier.

This project though, is still a long way off from happening, so a manual M3 with good mileage and price could turn up. The 2 I listed just happened to be pretty good.

 

[///M-Spec]

Driving a manual is no problem for me. But as I said, I'll settle for an auto if I need to.

I'm with backspace. Don't settle. You're not in a hurry, so take all the time you need. You're in the DFW area, right? You should have NO problems finding the right car there.

That being said, that black coupe looked to be in pretty cherry condition. The interior color combo is ultra-rare in fact, it's like the 2nd time I've see that combo for sale. It'd almost be a shame to hack it up. Too bad about the slushbox, though.

Have you contacted the local BMWCCA chapter? If they have a local forum, you can put a WTB ad there. You'll probably find a good car soon, but some Bimmerphiles think their cars are made of gold or something and want stupid money for them, so be ready for a some negotiation.

Re: Sedan vs. Coupe.

I don't know how many times I've said this, but I'll say it again. FOR US MARKET CARS, THERE IS NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SEDAN AND COUPE IN TERMS OF PERFORMANCE. They are MECHANICALLY IDENTICAL. THEY WEIGH THE SAME. They have the EXACT same powertrain. They have the EXACT same track and wheelbase. They have the EXACT same suspension. I've owned both. I've raced both. For what you want to do, they are the SAME.

The only differences are as follows:

-Sedans do not come with the Vader seats.
-Sedan body shells are stiffer than Coupe shells
-Coupes are slightly lower (about an inch), so presumably have slightly lower CG.
-Sedans are much more likely to be optioned with auto (50%) and power seats were standard (AFAIK).
-Coupes are more likely to be optioned with expensive and hugely desirable forged Lightweight wheel option, but they are still very rare.
-Obviously, the number of doors.

In Europe and other markets, the Coupes had higher rate springs and shocks. But US (and I'm pretty sure Canadian) cars are the same.

Sorry about the caps I'm just amazed that after all these years, the myth about the coupes being better than sedans still persists.


M

 

[Joey D]

Have you thought about an older (R50) Mini Cooper S? There is a huge aftermarket for them and they always do quite well at auto crosses I attend.

 

[McLaren]

I'm with backspace. Don't settle. You're not in a hurry, so take all the time you need. You're in the DFW area, right? You should have NO problems finding the right car there.

As said, if I need to. Should have said though, "If I get tired of searching....". Manuals are my primary, but they're just not cheap yet. I'm a bit concerned about them anyways. It seem some owners think their M3 (regardless of body or transmission) is now worthy of asking for $20,000+, almost E30 M3 territory.

That being said, that black coupe looked to be in pretty cherry condition. The interior color combo is ultra-rare in fact, it's like the 2nd time I've see that combo for sale. It'd almost be a shame to hack it up. Too bad about the slushbox, though.

I thought the interior was a little too nice as well, but I didn't think the combo. was a rarity. But if that really is true, even I would need to think twice about taking a car like that into the body shop.

Have you contacted the local BMWCCA chapter? If they have a local forum, you can put a WTB ad there. You'll probably find a good car soon, but some Bimmerphiles think their cars are made of gold or something and want stupid money for them, so be ready for a some negotiation.

Not yet, but I've been doing some looking in Roundel & Bimmerforums. The forums have some nice prices of guys needing to sell a car off quickly. But the magazine is full of guys wanting good amounts of money. I'd be better off buying an older M6 in the Ads than the E36 M's.

Re: Sedan vs. Coupe.

I don't know how many times I've said this, but I'll say it again. FOR US MARKET CARS, THERE IS NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SEDAN AND COUPE IN TERMS OF PERFORMANCE. They are MECHANICALLY IDENTICAL. THEY WEIGH THE SAME. They have the EXACT same powertrain. They have the EXACT same track and wheelbase. They have the EXACT same suspension. I've owned both. I've raced both. For what you want to do, they are the SAME.

The only differences are as follows:

-Sedans do not come with the Vader seats.
-Sedan body shells are stiffer than Coupe shells
-Coupes are slightly lower (about an inch), so presumably have slightly lower CG.
-Sedans are much more likely to be optioned with auto (50%) and power seats were standard (AFAIK).
-Coupes are more likely to be optioned with expensive and hugely desirable forged Lightweight wheel option, but they are still very rare.
-Obviously, the number of doors.

In Europe and other markets, the Coupes had higher rate springs and shocks. But US (and I'm pretty sure Canadian) cars are the same.

Sorry about the caps I'm just amazed that after all these years, the myth about the coupes being better than sedans still persists.


M

I suppose it's just the general thought that 4 doors=more weight. But I did not know that, so really, I don't care if I get a sedan or coupe now. I wish I knew how good the convertible was. There's bucket loads of them for sale.

BTW, are the Vader seats the ones with the /// logo on them?

Have you thought about an older (R50) Mini Cooper S? There is a huge aftermarket for them and they always do quite well at auto crosses I attend.

A Mini is a nice consideration. Haven't quite seen any under $15,000, but I quite like them due to being "built" by BMW. But I thought the R50 was non-S.

 

[Joey D]

The R50 is just the older chassis code, the Mini I'm getting is the newer, bigger, R56. The first generation being built by BMW if you will. And you should be able to get an older one from around the time they came state side for around $10,000.

 

[McLaren]

The R50 is just the older chassis code, the Mini I'm getting is the newer, bigger, R56. The first generation being built by BMW if you will. And you should be able to get an older one from around the time they came state side for around $10,000.

The R56 is quite nice. I can't believe Mini prices have gotten to $19,000 base. That's not high, nor bad, just a bit shocking.

I will do a search for the Cooper S though. I would settle for a Cooper, but after test driving one long ago, they just seem like a Point A to Point B car, with no fun in between unless it's the S. That's probably changed though since then, so you're more than likely getting a different Cooper from what I drove.

 

[Joey D]

I won't lie I was a bit shocked at the price too until I drove one. They really are just a brilliant little car, especially when it comes to corners. I found myself plowing through some of the S turns near the dealership at speeds that would have just been unsafe in say some other hatchback, like a Scion xA.

The newer R56 Coopers are a lot more then just a point A to B car although they do make excellent commuter cars (more or less what I will be using mine for). However I might do a little auto crossing with it once I'm able to get a decent set of tires for it. The only thing that kept me from getting the new turbo charged S version was the insurance cost and the fact it has a base price of $24,000...I'm looking at Volvo C30 range with that.

It would be even cooler if you somehow find a pre-BMW Mini Cooper, I know there are 4 or 5 in my area and I can't imagine they are super rare in America.

 

[McLaren]

I won't lie I was a bit shocked at the price too until I drove one. They really are just a brilliant little car, especially when it comes to corners. I found myself plowing through some of the S turns near the dealership at speeds that would have just been unsafe in say some other hatchback, like a Scion xA.

The newer R56 Coopers are a lot more then just a point A to B car although they do make excellent commuter cars (more or less what I will be using mine for). However I might do a little auto crossing with it once I'm able to get a decent set of tires for it. The only thing that kept me from getting the new turbo charged S version was the insurance cost and the fact it has a base price of $24,000...I'm looking at Volvo C30 range with that.

I haven't driven a regular Mini since, but then again, I will just be modifying it. The Cooper S, though, is just too tempting. I agree, they are great little cars.

It would be even cooler if you somehow find a pre-BMW Mini Cooper, I know there are 4 or 5 in my area and I can't imagine they are super rare in America.

Easy to find, tricky to catch. Haven't found very many, and those I have, need some engine work. But they are cheap.

Which reminds me of a rant....
Why are the Japanese cars everyone recommended so d*mn hard to find? Every other MR2 is either worn, or modified to look like crap. Same with a few RX-7s except the engine is modified, and screwed up b/c someone didn't know what they were doing when they installed a turbo.

 

[neanderthal]

i wouldnt buy an E30 M3 as a track tool unless its already someones track b!tch. they get real expensive to repair. moreso than the E36.
part of it is the rarity. part of it is that so many E36 were made in comparison that parts are plentiful. the E30 has many bespoke parts, the whole drivetrain, fenders, doors, glass. its a one off in comparison to later models which were had the same body panels and came down the same assembly line. i believe that even the core components of the later cars (engine block, transmission casing, diff casing etc)were the same as the (options on?) lesser models, but i could be wrong.

its the coolest M3 ever. i'll give you that. even with only a 200hp four banger. but its out everythinged by the newer models performance wise.

but its just cool. as. fark. the others dont got that cool.

 

[McLaren]

i wouldnt buy an E30 M3 as a track tool unless its already someones track b!tch. they get real expensive to repair. moreso than the E36. part of it is the rarity. part of it is that so many E36 were made in comparison that parts are plentiful. the E30 has many bespoke parts, the whole drivetrain, fenders, doors, glass. its a one off in comparison to later models which were had the same body panels and came down the same assembly line. i believe that even the core components of the later cars (engine block, transmission casing, diff casing etc)were the same as the (options on?) lesser models, but i could be wrong.

its the coolest M3 ever. i'll give you that. even with only a 200hp four banger. but its out everythinged by the newer models performance wise.

but its just cool. as. fark. the others dont got that cool.

I hear that. I did find one in NY for $8K, but it needed some engine work. Other than that, most are tracked, but out of range. But the E30 isn't what I'm after unless I find one at the right time. Too costly in repairs as most have issues. It is the coolest M3 though.

 

[neanderthal]

engine rebuild is over 10K. yup, ten thousand.

for a four banger making 200hp. 👎

i was ><this close to buying one till i saw that. theres precious few that have low miles. so a rebuild is in the offing for pretty much any car you buy unless its been babied all its life. and most have not.

 

[McLaren]

engine rebuild is over 10K. yup, ten thousand.

for a four banger making 200hp. 👎

i was ><this close to buying one till i saw that. theres precious few that have low miles. so a rebuild is in the offing for pretty much any car you buy unless its been babied all its life. and most have not.

$10K? Jeez....Do you happen to remember the mileage? A lot of the $20K+ M3's I found of the generation, had between 70,000-160,000. The higher mileage ones were tracked.

As for the precious few, I think those were $25K+, with modified ones going for a little over $32,000. Those had decent miles though. But for such a price, I'd be more willing to get an old, seen-better-days, NSX.

 

[neanderthal]

they all had mileage in that range youre posting. and the pricing youre quoting is spot on with what i was seeing. and that was 4 years ago.

there was a guy selling his for $7000. i talked to him extensively, he just needed to get rid of the car quickly. i was so close to buying that, but he was honest enough to tell me it would need work soon. that was my entire budget back then so i went with the 300E instead. this time my (cash) budget is ~$17000. getting a bike (BMW R1200 GSAdventure) gotta wait for tax refund though. dont want to finance anything.

 

[McLaren]

they all had mileage in that range youre posting. and the pricing youre quoting is spot on with what i was seeing. and that was 4 years ago.

So, the prices are rising slowly then. D*mn....

there was a guy selling his for $7000. i talked to him extensively, he just needed to get rid of the car quickly. i was so close to buying that, but he was honest enough to tell me it would need work soon. that was my entire budget back then so i went with the 300E instead. this time my (cash) budget is ~$17000. getting a bike (BMW R1200 GSAdventure) gotta wait for tax refund though. dont want to finance anything.

Sorry about the deal, but good luck on the bike. 👍

 

[ND4SPD]

How about a 98-01 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS, then ditch the stock engine and drop in an EJ20 in there?

 

[McLaren]

How about a 98-01 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS, then ditch the stock engine and drop in an EJ20 in there?

Sounds like it could be a good car. Was the RS offered here though?

 

[Thirdeye]

Yes it was.

 

[slidesquad#1]

But the RS was basically a WRX coupe body with the NA 2.5 wasn't it? And EJ20 swapped RS' are fairly common, it wouldn't really surprise too many people. Especially those into their cars.

 

[YSSMAN]

I seem to recall that the RS still holds its value quite well, although my only question would be over reliability. I had considered a blue RS when replacing my Fox a few years ago, but after looking at the price of the car, the cost of insurance, and assumed parts replacements (not to mention so-so fuel economy), the VW won-out.

Although now that I'm making more money these days, a nice RS wouldn't be a bad choice...

 

[McLaren]

I seem to recall that the RS still holds its value quite well, although my only question would be over reliability. I had considered a blue RS when replacing my Fox a few years ago, but after looking at the price of the car, the cost of insurance, and assumed parts replacements (not to mention so-so fuel economy), the VW won-out.

Although now that I'm making more money these days, a nice RS wouldn't be a bad choice...

I'll check their prices tomorrow, but after some insurance checking tonight, I really will need to keep it low on price. The M3 price has turned out to that it would be a nice big hit to my insurance rates, and the fact that it will be modified doesn't help.

Insurance Rates suck though, so much that I'm considering putting this car under some kind of special deal, or a completely different company.

 

[Azuremen]

But the RS was basically a WRX coupe body with the NA 2.5 wasn't it? And EJ20 swapped RS' are fairly common, it wouldn't really surprise too many people. Especially those into their cars.

Not quite, the WRX had aluminum suspension bits that were setup different, bigger brakes, and other bits and pieces.

You can do full conversions, but at that point, you might as well by a full cheap Impreza L with the crappy crap engine.

 

[slidesquad#1]

Also, something I just thought of. Would insurance cover anything that happened to you on track? Over here, making a claim for a racetrack incident would get you laughed a

 

[Gashlycrumb]

Also, something I just thought of. Would insurance cover anything that happened to you on track? Over here, making a claim for a racetrack incident would get you laughed a

Not if you have track insurance. You can even get it from State Insurance so long as it is for track days/events and not full on racing. I presume an American-based insurance company would do something similar.

 

[Azuremen]

Not if you have track insurance. You can even get it from State Insurance so long as it is for track days/events and not full on racing. I presume an American-based insurance company would do something similar.

It would have to be separate track policy, as you said.

Otherwise, they would just laugh at you or such. But I don't know if they offer track day plans in the US with our insurance companies...

 

[neanderthal]

So, the prices are rising slowly then. D*mn....

Sorry about the deal, but good luck on the bike. 👍

yes, the E30 is understood to be an appreciating soon to be classic (if it isnt already) for its rarity (vs more recent models,) pedigree (winningest touring car blah blah blah,) its bespoke nature (plenty of unique parts) its feel and tactility (the loss of which is lamented often in comparisons with newer models. see the latest EVO for reference)

get em while theyre relatively cool. theyre gonna be hot soon.

i dont mind not owning the car. insurance would have killed me, i would probably have driven like a prat amassing stacks of tickets, i woulda killed myself in repairs and tires as i know i would have done track days and so on.
no regrets. more cash this time around.

one day though...........

 

[Tornado]

American econo cars of the past were all junk.

Our family has two awesome handling and overall pretty good cars that disagree.

 

[neanderthal]

re; the above ^^ post.

i gotta know what they are.

 

[Tornado]

1995 Dodge Neon ACR. 1993 Dodge Shadow Highline 3 door.

 

[Joey D]

Neon ACR's are not as good as many of the other mentioned vehicles. My roommate autocrosses a 1st generation ACR, I've posted pictures of it on the site before. He personally dislikes it, his previous track car was a 1993 Civic 3 door which pretty much walked all over the Neon. ACR's I'm sure are good at some forms of racing, but they are not as good as other vehicles mentioned when it comes to autocross.

Plus I've never seen, and my roommate Chris agrees, a car that breaks down so much. Yes it is a track car so we both expect it to break down, but not as often as it does. It seems like he would go race it every Sunday and I would have to go tow his ass home or run him up some parts.

After talking with him today, he suggests a Miata for an autocross car, but also likes the idea you are looking for BMW's.

Also McLaren are you thinking of joining the SCCA or are you just going to start with local club sponsored events?