Goodbye Neon

[niky]

The Dodge Stealth wasn't a volume seller, but I do remember the Dodge/Mitsu Colt well.

Yeah, Ford had the 121/Festiva, but what will be most remembered are the Ford/Mazda Laser/Escort/323s from the 80s. Nice cars, but really cheap. Those are the Fords that made it into almost every market.

The 121 continued for a long time as the Kia Pride here in Asia. There are a lot of these cars still running, but they're not easily id'd as Fords here in Asia.

 

[Swift]

The Dodge Stealth wasn't a volume seller, but I do remember the Dodge/Mitsu Colt well.

Yeah, Ford had the 121/Festiva, but what will be most remembered are the Ford/Mazda Laser/Escort/323s from the 80s. Nice cars, but really cheap. Those are the Fords that made it into almost every market.
.

I hate to be a nit picker. But the Laser was the plymoth version of the older eclipse/Talon.

 

[niky]

That's the Plymouth Laser. The Ford Laser started as the Asian badge of the 80's FWD Ford Escort. That's Escort/Laser/323, take your pick. The last generation Mazda 323 was sold as the 323/Familia/Protege in Japan and the US, and as the Laser/Lynx/Tierra in the Asian and Australian markets. Although Aussies still got the Protege, oddly... ??? Now I've just confused myself...

If we want to nitpick, Mercury also had a Lynx... and I have no idea what platform it was, but I think it was a 626 platform and not a 323.

Newer Ford/Mazda products are better differentiated. The Second Generation Focus (not sold in the US) and the Mazda3 are obviously built on the same platform, but have performance and comfort levels that target different demographics in the "compact" market... though the new Focus is a bit big for a "compact" car.

 

[Swift]

That's the Plymouth Laser. The Ford Laser started as the Asian badge of the 80's FWD Ford Escort. That's Escort/Laser/323, take your pick. The last generation Mazda 323 was sold as the 323/Familia/Protege in Japan and the US, and as the Laser/Lynx/Tierra in the Asian and Australian markets. Although Aussies still got the Protege, oddly... ??? Now I've just confused myself...

I wasn't ragging on you. But since the thread is about an american car I thought we were talking American models.

 

[Diego440]

It was me... I started talking about other models and other nationalities. Anyway, now for some visual aids:

Venezuelan ad for the Ford Laser


Plymouth Laser


CGI Mercury Lynx

 

[skip0110]

Dodge already has a foot in because of the demand for SUVs and trucks, but they really should think about a compact "world car" like Ford's Focus or Chevrolet's (barf!) Optra to create volume. Maybe sell Neons overseas as something else? That's what Ford did with the Protege (sorta worked) and Chevy did with the Forenza/Optra (not working very well). It would be nice to have them as "taxi" specials out here.

The Caliber will be sold in europe--in addition to the US engines there will be a VW TDI w/ a 6 speed, and ESP (stability control) will be availible.

 

[Blackbird.]

The Plymouth Laser/Lazer(whatever) for the US looks better then the Venezuelan(sp?) one.

 

[Diego440]

The Plymouth Laser/Lazer(whatever) for the US looks better then the Venezuelan(sp?) one.

The Venezuelan one is a Ford (similar to the Contour/Mondeo), while the US one is a Plymouth (derived from the Mitsu Eclipse). They're completely unrelated, except for the name.

 

[niky]

Yup. 👍

Europe, fine, but what about Asia? We last had Dodge cars over twenty years ago!

Maybe if some chinese company picked up the rights and tooling to the Neon... 💡

Proton is still building circa-90's Lancer clones under license as the GTi Satria. Imagine a hatchback Lancer Evolution I-III body with a high revving naturally aspirated 1.8. Mexico is still building B13 Sentras, last I heard, but under a different name.

It's crude cars like these which are good picks for re-manufacture. They're cheap to build and relatively simple and robust compared to newer cars. Maybe the same will happen for the Neon? I know it's not the nicest car out there, but if it could be sold as a good-handling taxi/trackday special, I'd get one.

 

[Wolfe]

Actually, I think some Chrysler people called that merger a "takeover".

Most, if not all, of the top executive positions are held by Germans now.

The Crossfire was a rebadged SLK.

The Magnum is a RWD, V8-powered wagon. Hmm, who woulda thought of that?

One of the first products of the merger was the new 300, a big, heavy, V8-powered, RWD sedan. Hmm, who has tons of experience building those?

You make the call.

 

[Blackbird.]

Yup. 👍

Europe, fine, but what about Asia? We last had Dodge cars over twenty years ago!

Maybe if some chinese company picked up the rights and tooling to the Neon... 💡

Proton is still building circa-90's Lancer clones under license as the GTi Satria. Imagine a hatchback Lancer Evolution I-III body with a high revving naturally aspirated 1.8. Mexico is still building B13 Sentras, last I heard, but under a different name.

It's crude cars like these which are good picks for re-manufacture. They're cheap to build and relatively simple and robust compared to newer cars. Maybe the same will happen for the Neon? I know it's not the nicest car out there, but if it could be sold as a good-handling taxi/trackday special, I'd get one.

I don't care what other people say but they were well built cars IMO. Of course designed by Dodge so maybe that Chinese company won't build them so reliable, no offense. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

 

[niky]

Kia-badged Ford Festivas (the Kia "Pride") are pieces of ****... rustbuckets. But reliable as heck, and cheap to maintain. Proton's "Wira", based on the old lancer, is rare in my country, but quality and maintenance are good, because of the Mitsubishi parts.

As long as the templates are good and they use the original production equipment, the copy is usually about as good as the original, minus a few trim issues and the ovious electrical problems due to cheap manufacture.

 

[JohnBM01]

Probably judging by these guys, compacts and sport compacts aren't "in" anymore, so truck-like stuff rules because America loves utility and aggression. It's come to a point where you can still have fun with something that doesn't remotely look like a station wagon, SUV, or whatever. I respect DaimlerChrysler, but I don't like this decision. The Neon was one of the coolest American compact cars, and the SRT-4? Enough said, homie.

So, is the American sport compact dead? Has it been succeeded by the ultilty machines like station wagons, SUVs, and that sort of thing?

 

[niky]

It's been a long time in the making. Started with the Scion xB and the Element... Mazda's 3 is going in that direction, thank god it looks nice.

I now have another reason to hate SUVs... if we all end up driving boxes on wheels within the next few years because Americans (not you guys, us petrolheads gotta stick together. ) don't want to buy anything but "trucks", I'll be very very cross.

 

[pinakaguwaping]

Rebadging ain't too bad if the base car is good. Look at the Asian Ford Lynx, especially in 2.0 RS trim, easily beat the B16 Civic SiRs (4 door EK variant) that riceboys over here loved. Since the Neon replacement is gonna share it's platform with the enxt Lancer, maybe they could do a world car version (with a 4G63T powered SRT version).

 

[niky]

I don't know about that... Dodge has it's own small engine line now, separate from the 4G program... and Mitsu's probably going to drop the engine itself before long.

The 4G63's long-time rival, that all-aluminum turbo-monster, the SR20, has just about bitten the dust with the release of the QR20... the Honda B-series is dead... now only the Subaru FJ20 remains. The 4G63 is a very old ironblock design, and may be replaced in future Evos by a lighter engine.

Whoops, just read the EVO thread... the 4G63 is gone as of Evo X, to be replaced by an aluminum engine.

The ironblock Mazda FSDE in the Ford Lynx /Mazda Protege was a very minor contender in the sport compact wars. The best they've ever gotten out of it was the 170 hp FSZE (naturally aspirated) and the 170 hp FSDET (turbo, US market only). 300hp (and maybe 200hp in street trim) seems to be the stock block limit so far, but due to enthusiasm in the US for modding this engine, they've just released a turbo-block for it.... still, that engine's dead now, too. Never a horsepower monster, actually, and really tough on the engine bay, as it runs pretty hot to meet emissions. Oh, and we can't beat the B16 boys on the highway, but we can really dice with them on the track. (see trackday thread)

Back on-topic, If Dodge would give Mitsu this platform for re-manufacture, maybe it could prop flagging sales overseas. May not happen, though... and with Mitsu out of the picture, you have to wonder where Daimler Chrysler is going to go for volume sales outside the US.