grafiti on Nürburgring???

[BMW_M3_GTR]

Can anyone explain to me why there are weird looking cross things everywhere on the side of the road with number "154" on them? I see them every 10 seconds either somewhere on the left or right. It just confuses me.

I think its there to show where people have dies while going around the track. And im guessing the numbers are to say for example the 154th person died here.

 

[CrackHoor]

I know this is a bit off topic but wouldnt it be cool in career mode if you could pick to do a session on the ring with other cars on the ring like in real life or pay a bit extra and have a private session

Isn't that like the 'Track Meet' and 'Practice' modes that are available for the 'Ring in GT Mode?

I noticed some funny graffiti in the ending movie, when Kaz drives past Hohe Acht there's a big pointy Twisted Sister logo painted on the road. Awesome!

 

[STINGER05]

There is some thing I like to say though. I guess that as you play this game and use really fast cars on the Nur you can get away with doing sub 7min times which is actually quite ridiculous. Its still a game and you can get away with memorising the sequence and speeds for any given car.

In real life, attacking the Nur is bloody hair raising. No amount of training can give you the heroic lap times like in the game. As you sycthe through each daunting corner with its uneven surface and almost blind exits, your car threatens to throw you into the wall at the slightest mistake.
What I am saying is that, though we may all be heroes in GT4, I have deep respect for the Nurburgring.?

100% agreed. NONE of us would drive/attack the Ring in RL as we do in the game.
While almost all of us round the ring in sub 6 minutes, most likely none of us would ever do that sitting in a race car on the Ring.
Racers like Bellof, J.A.Stuck (he became second in this years 24 hour race in the BMW 3 GTR, and he is well into his fifites...Hans vom Ring) or Lauda were amongst the best drivers ever to grace a tarmac, and we should not be fooled by the fact that we are 'faster' in the game than they were in RL. All I ask -like TachiTJS- is RESPECT to the drivers, RESPECT to the RING!

 

[den brakke]

They make motorbikes too.

At least they used to.

They stil do, they won the World Championship motorcross a couple of years ago with Stefan Everts.

 

[vladimir]

I think its there to show where people have dies while going around the track. And im guessing the numbers are to say for example the 154th person died here.

who the hell came up with this silly rumour that graffiti or signs had anything to do with where people died on the ring?!

stop spreading this!

those signs are simply traffic signs that say "parking or stopping forbidden!"

 

[Skant]

of course the game allows you to go faster than in reality but 6 minute times are possible, although the 5 minute laps in GT4 are a little bit too fast.

I'm not totally convinced of that. The Minolta has never run on the ring. Formula 1 cars stopped running on the ring about 35 years ago.

It's a little hard to say what RL lap times are possible there because it's just not really used anymore.

I would like to point out that if your fast lap times around the ring are augmented by wall riding, skipping sections of course... or even curb hopping.. (and that's the real gotcha) Then your times are unrealistic only because you're taking advantage of the lack of damage modelling. In RL, you can not fly over curbs without breaking your car. And you can save a lot of time in GT by taking full advantage of your adamantium suspension arms. (You _can_ touch curbs a little. And some very low curbs you can run over... but in most cases, no. Especially in a low car with limitted suspension travel)

There is also the aspect of being conservative, too. In GT, you can just race around the track at full tilt trying to find that fastest lap. When you crash, you just think 'Dang, I messed up my time for this lap'. But in RL, you're done when you do that only once. So... how many of you make super fast laps around the 'ring... and can honestly claim that at the same time, you can manage to never come into contact with a wall even once after many laps?

If you start paying attention to that, you'll immediately notice a big difference between that track and other tracks. If you mess up and go for a spin on most tracks, you slide into a run off area and come to a halt without hitting anything most of the time. If you mess up on the 'ring, you hit a wall _HARD_ almost 100% of the time. That's the real reason nurbergring is such a dangerous track.

It's not so much the track itself, but it's total lack of safety features. It's a difficult drive, sure. But it's not unique in that respect. There are other tracks which are just as if not more difficult. But the 'ring seems to like to arrange the walls near the most precarious corners in such a way as to make sure it completely destroys any car that messes up even a little. It's just nasty. And a great draw for the 'thrill of death' types.

Notice a complete lack of even a tire wall anywhere on the track? I'm almost suprised they don't line the sides of the track with spikes. And maybe some flaming pits... or pools of sharks with fricken lasers on their heads...

- Skant

 

[vr6gti72]

My favorite track in the game.....its such a challenge. I still havent mastered it, and thats why I like it.

Is there a way to rewatch the video when you unlock extreme hall?

 

[bellybox]

Is there a way to rewatch the video when you unlock extreme hall?

Yeah, quit Gran Turismo mode & select "ending movie" from the main menu.

 

[Speedbird223]

The official death toll is about 260 but they only count the people that die on the scene, at least 1 person dies a week because of this circuit, mainly bikers on oil slicks etc.

One a week? Somehow I think the German Health & Safety Gestapo would have closed it long ago if the figure was that high!


To the person who asked about the fire engine on the Karussell

 

[Skant]

One a week? Somehow I think the German Health & Safety Gestapo would have closed it long ago if the figure was that high!

Nope. Instead, they just pretend the deaths aren't happening. Here's a quote...


While the official fatality figures quoted by Nurburgring GmbH are very low, this is because they only count those who are declared dead on-scene: if they are still working on the victim at the time the helicopter takes them out, they are not classified as a fatality. I was on the scene of an accident where one victim was declared dead at the trackside while a second was declared dead in the helicopter shortly after take-off: that went down in the stats as one death and one injury.

Getting accurate figures for Ring fatalities is almost impossible as even the police may be unaware when someone dies in hospital after they have decided that no police action is required (ie. no other vehicle involved and deciding not to prosecute the victim). At the upper end of estimates, an ITU nurse at Koblenz hospital told us they get 2-3 admissions a week from the Ring, around half of whom don't make it. However, I suspect this figure includes people who crash in the surrounding area.

The best information I can offer is from Adenau police who attended 67 Ring crashes in 2001, and who say that there have been 10 fatal accidents between January and September 2002.

I couldn't even begin to count the number of accidents I've seen there. You'll spot a damage-only crash every few laps, and closures due to more serious accidents are everyday fare.


That info comes from the nurburgring website. That and more is at the following URL...

http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/warning.html


The guy goes on to say how wonderful it is anyway. Definately a 'thrill of death' type of track. I'm into going fast, not dying. There's a lot better places to do that than the nurb.

I mean... sheesh... you die on the nurb, and you don't even become a statistic... (Unless you crash so hard that you're splattered all over the track when they arrive. Then they have to grudgingly admit you died there)

- Skant

 

[vladimir]

the nurburgring gmbh that runs the track is only doing the statistic this way because they don't want to close the track. accident and fatality rates have increased because reckless driving. when inexperienced or reckless people race their cars on this track and try to beat their lap records it is no surprise that you will have a lof of fatalitys. the company tries everything they can to reduce fatalitys because the amount of them endangers the whole public tourist driving. its down to the fans whether we will be allowed to drive on it in future or whether it will some day be closed for good thanks to some reckless idiots.

 

[Scaff]

I'm not totally convinced of that. The Minolta has never run on the ring. Formula 1 cars stopped running on the ring about 35 years ago.

It's a little hard to say what RL lap times are possible there because it's just not really used anymore.
- Skant

Six minute laps of the 'ring are possiable, Stephan Belof hold the lap record with a time of 6mins 11secs, set in a Porsche 956.

You can also see a 6min 41sec lap from an in-car view, set by Berek Bell (again in a Porsche 956), its on the DVD In-car 956, from Duke Video. It is however fairly easy to find as a download on the net (anyone able to help with this).

Its a quite insane lap (average speed of approx. 120mph) and you have to remember he was carrying a good few kilos of '80s broadcast video camera equipment with him.

The guy goes on to say how wonderful it is anyway. Definately a 'thrill of death' type of track. I'm into going fast, not dying. There's a lot better places to do that than the nurb.

I mean... sheesh... you die on the nurb, and you don't even become a statistic... (Unless you crash so hard that you're splattered all over the track when they arrive. Then they have to grudgingly admit you died there)

- Skant

The 'ring is a wonderful track, I've driven it a number of times over the years and it is quite unlike any other circuit in the world. The only thing that has ever come close was driving the Isle of Man TT route, as the Isle of Man has unlimited roads outside of the towns and villages. And that route I would class as more dangerous that the 'ring, I'd rather hit an armco barrier that a dry stone wall!

It is dangerous and does need to be treated with great respect, the site you refer to is Ben Lovejoy's site, one of the most respected sites on the 'ring, you forgot to mention that while he does provide the details on the fatalities and also say that the 'ring is a wonderful track, he does also caution all drivers to take great care when visiting, warning people from trying to record/set lap times and just enjoy the 'ring as one of the greatest driving roads in the world.

One of the great things about the 'ring is that the car you take has very little to do with the level of enjoyment you get from it, its about the challenge of the road, not the speed you take it at. Additionally the public start/end of lap point is towards the end of the main straight, which removes one of the single most dangerous points on the track, the kink at the end of the straight, as you would normally be approaching this at a much lower speed from the start that you would if the 'ring used the GT4 start point.

My only concern (and one voiced on the Ben Lovejoy site) is that people playing GT4, Enthusia and Forza will come to believe that they will be able to drive the real thing in the same manner as in the games. Most people would however come to there senses after the first corner, nothing quite like one meter runoffs with trees and armco for a quick mortality reminder. You will always get idiots, who believe they have something to prove, but at the 'ring they will soon get banned, either from the track or from driving. You see the 'ring is officially classed as a public toll road and subject to normal German traffic laws, so if reported for dangerous driving it is more that possiable that the offender could lose their licence or wind up in jail.

I can't agree that the 'ring is a 'thrill of death' type of track (however some of the drivers may be, but you can find someone like that at most trackdays), it is however a 'thrill of driving' kind of track. If you ever get over to Germany I strongly advise you give it a go (even a few laps in a ring-taxi) before making your final judgement.

 

[Skant]

I can't agree that the 'ring is a 'thrill of death' type of track (however some of the drivers may be, but you can find someone like that at most trackdays), it is however a 'thrill of driving' kind of track. If you ever get over to Germany I strongly advise you give it a go (even a few laps in a ring-taxi) before making your final judgement.

You may be right. I mean, here's a case where I'm talking about something I've never actually done before.

But the thing is... all of the research I've done on the 'ring points to it being a very dangerous place to go. Obviously much less so if you aren't being an idiot about it. But even then. Everyone who talks about it seems to mention that they see crashes, injuries, or even fatalities but since it was someone else and not them, it's no big deal. The guy on the web page comments that one of his best friends was killed there, and yet he still encourages people to come out to the ring. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

So it certainly looks to me like an "I never thought it could happen to me" type of thing.

I mean... I've never seen a video of a complete lap of the 'ring that did not pass by the scene of an accident somewhere along the way.

From an external point of view, it looks like driving on the 'ring is so much fun that people lose their perspective on all the obvious danger signs all around them. And they'd like to believe that if they're careful enough, it won't happen to them, too.

Most of the motorcyclists I know seem to suffer from a very similar effect. They tell me that motorcyling is actually quite safe... and in the same breath, mention how they bailed the other day and messed up their hand real good. And somehow, there is no connection between those two statements for them. None at all. They _can not_ see how absurd it is to utter both statements in the same breath.

Is that any different than saying the ring is safe and at the same time admitting that there are countless crashes and people get killed there on a regular basis?

Are you saying that driving on the ring is safe? Or are you really saying that you consider it to be worth the danger?

- Skant

 

[Supren]

When i began to play GT4 and i tried Nurburgring. I thought "WOW" this track was great and the best of all...Beautiful. I think thats the reason i like it so much because of its scenery. It's like a dream track of greenery and i can just imagine the pure smell of pine. Just like in the game, is the track all really that green? Anyone here know? Anyways, overall this track is the best in GT4 and in everyother racing game. I've seen few videos at gofastvideo.com check it out...they got cars racing at Nurburgring in the inside car views, very neat. The one i saw was an S2000 and an Lotus Elise chasing (following behind) a Corvette. Check it out!!

 

[Scaff]

Are you saying that driving on the ring is safe? Or are you really saying that you consider it to be worth the danger?

- Skant

I would say that any time you get behind the wheel of a car you take a risk and that danger exists. Is the 'ring more dangerous that other roads, without any doubt; but I would consider the risk to be low enough for me, however I take my driving very, very seriously, even on a day to day basis.

Bikes on the 'ring I personally think are the biggest risk of all, they are much more vunerable to the lack of run-off and close nature of the armco and trees, but also the camber and nature of the track is not suited to bikes. I believe that a high percentage of serious injuries/deaths atthe 'ring are bikers rather than drivers.

Thats not to say that I do not take the 'ring seriously, because I do treat it with great respect. I mean the track that Jackie Stewart called 'The Green Hell' (thats where that name comes from) deserves respect and care. I can honestly say that I have never pushed a car or myself beyond 7/10ths at the 'ring and it would take a lot more practice that I am ever going to get to go beyond that. However thats not the point of the 'ring, to me even at that pace its a challenge (and a controlled one) and very enjoyable.

 

[~Sp33~]

the nurburgring gmbh that runs the track is only doing the statistic this way because they don't want to close the track. accident and fatality rates have increased because reckless driving. when inexperienced or reckless people race their cars on this track and try to beat their lap records it is no surprise that you will have a lof of fatalitys. the company tries everything they can to reduce fatalitys because the amount of them endangers the whole public tourist driving. its down to the fans whether we will be allowed to drive on it in future or whether it will some day be closed for good thanks to some reckless idiots.

That would be a sad day for any automotive enthusiast.

 

[Opel DTM 475]

A lot of people have died from driving the 'Ring, 78 total. Last I heard a couple weeks ago, from Bob Varsha.

Also when you sign up to go on it in RL, it's at your own risk.

Aside from that (some people are gonna die from racing, just that the 'Ring has a higher possibility if you don't know the track, or know it well enough) I love the track, from GT 4, reading about it, watching it on TV. For obvious reasons.

 

[jammyozzy]

Some of the graffiti is to honour people who have died, and I think there are a couple of crosses on the armco although I haven't seen any myself. Most of it though is for the teams and drivers who take aprt in the 24 hour endurance or just fun stuff. 👍

 

[Dane3]

well idunno about u lot but i would like to graffiti on the nurburgring track