Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)

Tenacious D

GT5 Standard rapscallion
Premium
7,442
Tetsumura / GTP_Tetsu
Nigel Fox
Now Kaz, make what this guy just said, package it in a box with another nice booklet and a Kyosho car and take my $100.
What he said. :lol: I am still seriously stoked, and we haven't even seen the big aces Kaz is saving for E3, Gamescom and TGS. This is going to be a long year...
 

Lock2Lock

EVERYBODY DO THE FLOP
Premium
6,985
United States
United States
liampage123
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBH3E7emNQ0

In the video above the movements that the driver has to make to keep the car under control seems more like real life. It also seems the car slides around much better. truly looking forward to this!

If ABS is on in that video I am happy. Finally no more stability control assist hidden in the ABS.

The way he is having to work the wheel is so amazing.
 
4,850
CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Better in motion, rear wheel lift on turn in

ibonOa46QreObq.gif
 

shirakawaa

Premium
5,034
 
GTP_shirakawaa
As in many others older cars, including the old Fiat 500 which is also rear engined, there should be plenty of positive camber on the driving wheels when suspension travel gets "maxed out", however I see none in the gif above:

alpine_a110__photos_1_b-625x1000.jpg


tumblr_m38k88VRwV1rtluxvo1_500.jpg


This makes me think that positive camber is not simulated (or at least it isn't visually displayed), as in GT5.
 

shirakawaa

Premium
5,034
 
GTP_shirakawaa
You could try making a premium Fiat 500 jump on a custom track and see if positive camber on the rear wheels (which should be prominent due to its very short axles) shows in replay mode.

Here's another image showing how much pointed inward are rear wheels on an Alpine A110 when suspension travel is maxed out:

alpine%20a110%20assinie%20rally.jpg
 

dr_slump

Premium
7,401
Switzerland
Switzerland
the_dr_slump / GTP_dr_slump
Perhaps the GT alpine has an aftermarket suspension? Give it less range of spring or use bars.
The suspension travel is much less, thus less positive camber.

I'm also quite sure that the rally version had a different suspension than the production car.
 
6,804
Netherlands
The Netherlands
As in many others older cars, including the old Fiat 500 which is also rear engined, there should be plenty of positive camber on the driving wheels when suspension travel gets "maxed out", however I see none in the gif above:

This makes me think that positive camber is not simulated (or at least it isn't visually displayed), as in GT5.

I doubt you can determine whether positive camber is simulated by comparing a car 'mid air' where it's instantly visible in a more extreme way and the way it's cornered in that gif though.
I do hope like you it will be, it's even present in a game like GTA4 for example.
 
I think because the outside wheel is being pushed up on its travel, any anti-roll device could pull the inner one up as well. No idea if that's accurate for this car, though.

It still doesn't remove the possibility of a simple misalignment of the physics mesh (fine bumps) and the graphics mesh. This typically causes wheels to look like they scoot through the tarmac or float over it momentarily.

Plus, there is something that appears to clip through the real wheel before it lifts.
 

shirakawaa

Premium
5,034
 
GTP_shirakawaa
Thing is, noticeable camber changes with suspension load is an inherent effect of the swing axle suspension system used on the rear axle of the Alpine A110 (or the Fiat 500):

500px-Swing_Axle_Diagram.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_axle

It's true that it's hard to determine from that screenshot if the suspension is indeed working as intended, but I can say it wasn't in GT5.
 
Yup, jury's still out I suppose. Footage of FF cars would probably be most useful, as they can generally be provoked to cock a leg in the corners.
 
11,785
Australia
Melbourne
Neomone/GTP_Imari
Does anyone else find it odd that a rear engined, rear wheel drive car is lifting a back wheel in a corner? It seems like it would cause awful handling issues to lose half your grip on the end of the car that is carrying most of the weight AND propelling the car.

There's a reason hot hatches do it, it's an intentional part of the suspension design. I can't think of any reason why an Alpine would want to tuck a wheel.
 

shirakawaa

Premium
5,034
 
GTP_shirakawaa
Otherwise it should've been present in this picture as well wouldn't it?
Yep, the VW Beetle had swing axle suspensions too, but here you can immediately tell that the rear wheel is perfectly perpendicular to the car body.

Does anyone else find it odd that a rear engined, rear wheel drive car is lifting a back wheel in a corner? It seems like it would cause awful handling issues to lose half your grip on the end of the car that is carrying most of the weight AND propelling the car.

There's a reason hot hatches do it, it's an intentional part of the suspension design. I can't think of any reason why an Alpine would want to tuck a wheel.

I thought about this too, but it could be that the car is "just" hopping around because it's sliding and maybe tire grip has a more natural behavior at the limit than in GT5.
 
4,741
Colombia
Bogota,Colombia
GTP_ARP93
Does anyone else find it odd that a rear engined, rear wheel drive car is lifting a back wheel in a corner? It seems like it would cause awful handling issues to lose half your grip on the end of the car that is carrying most of the weight AND propelling the car.

There's a reason hot hatches do it, it's an intentional part of the suspension design. I can't think of any reason why an Alpine would want to tuck a wheel.

I think the picture doesn't show what we're talking about. How can a Beetle corner so hard that it lifts the tyres of the axle that has the most weight distribution? Please correct me if I'm wrong, this is a topic I would like very much to learn about.
 

Eunos_Cosmo

Premium
8,520
United States
Marin County
I don't think the tire was actually above the ground in terms of the physics engine. It's most likely a graphics engine/physics engine misalignment as suggested by Griffith. It's very unlikely a RR would lift it's inside rear wheel under cornering on flat ground.
 

shirakawaa

Premium
5,034
 
GTP_shirakawaa
Regarding camber, I found a good picture of how a vintage VW Beetle should behave under heavy lateral load with its rear swing axle suspension:

178058d1360757793-should-i-get-60s-70s-car-hardcorneringinaswingaxlebug.jpg


The Triumph Spitfire seems scary too:

177955d1360698409-should-i-get-60s-70s-car-spitfirecornering.jpg

178007d1360715748-should-i-get-60s-70s-car-rear-axle-view02.jpg


This being said, the Alpine, even though it has swing axle rear suspensions, should behave in a more civilized manner than these two cars.
 
6,804
Netherlands
The Netherlands
I just remembered I forgot to mention that the Beetle in that pic does have a custom suspension and slight negative camber at the rear (but no chassis reinforcement) which might have an effect, maybe a stock version would have been a more accurate comparison.
 
2,963
United States
Greensboro/NC/U
jarod336/GTP_torque
Paperorplastic/ manherollen
Yup, jury's still out I suppose. Footage of FF cars would probably be most useful, as they can generally be provoked to cock a leg in the corners.
Yea id'e like that too, Need some footage of the confirmed Mercedes A45, or any other hatchback presently in game,i just really hope this time, they correctly translate the behavior of driving a hothatch, as you can remember how the golf handled in GT5, it had no soul, Also the Honda Civic Type R hatch.
 
2,963
United States
Greensboro/NC/U
jarod336/GTP_torque
Paperorplastic/ manherollen
177955d1360698409-should-i-get-60s-70s-car-spitfirecornering.jpg


Good lord has anyone ever driven one of these without becoming dead?
They were constructed, to react and give that way under very hard cornering, read above.👍

But even still... if i saw that in real life, id'e be terrified.
 
Those are simultaneously beautiful and scary demonstrations of the point at hand!

The Alpine A110 has independent rear suspension with coilovers (the linkage structures vary; most having single swingarms with radius arms, the 1600SC having double wishbones), and also has anti-roll bars. The one in GT5 is a 1600S, which still has the swingarms. Not sure if the one in the video is the same.

I guess it's still entirely possible that this Alpine might do the same thing in real life (if not necessarily for the exact same reasons as the Beetle and Spitfire there), but we still don't know for sure that's what's happening in the video.
edit never mind.
Do you think it could be the gif causing that effect?What was the original video

It's in the streamed video, not sure about the others.
 
2,963
United States
Greensboro/NC/U
jarod336/GTP_torque
Paperorplastic/ manherollen
Again,Has anyone played the demo yet? Please,share you're feedback if you have, thank you.
 
1,846
United States
Arizona
maxpontiac
What he said. :lol: I am still seriously stoked, and we haven't even seen the big aces Kaz is saving for E3, Gamescom and TGS. This is going to be a long year...

We haven't and what has me even more excited is one of the things that Kaz and his translator stressed was that what 5.15 event showcased was the CORE of GT6. We don't know about a ton of stuff yet, and I am hopeful that these next four long months deliver the goods to GT fans.


I owned the exact car that PDI choose to release in the '66 Bug, and I can tell you that they did a masterful job on the car as a whole. However, what we see here is incorrect.


With this photo, it shows that driving a '66 Bug under extreme conditions was a dangerous affair. Anyways, I sure had fun on Hualapai Mountain Road though.

The more I learned about my little blue car the more I attempted and that type of scenario only happened to me once. My father and I modified the suspension, put new wheels and tires on it, as well as various other mechanical changes on it. Of course, we put a nice stereo system in it too.

We weren't alone in that endeavor as TNT Auto helped us (well did most of it).
http://www.tntautocenteraz.com/index.html
 
2,790
Canada
Vancouver, BC
liampage123
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but it seems to me that the cars in GT5 has too much body roll. In the last clip of the announcement trailer where the GTR GT3 and the SLS GT3 are going around that corner, if you look closely you will see that both cars a have a lot of body roll. They are races cars, they should not have a lot of body rolls. This concerns me a little bit.