Gran Turismo 7 AI behavior analysis

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 7' started by Nigrick, Jul 31, 2020.

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Do you think that there is an evidence of AI improvement in GT7?

  1. Yes, I can see the difference.

    15 vote(s)
    41.7%
  2. No, you are delusional.

    21 vote(s)
    58.3%
  1. zaxs

    zaxs

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    Location:
    Croatia
    Most games sadly don't have qualifying, they simply put at back of the grid and give u stupid ai to overtake...

    I have some feeling GT7 could have it.
     
  2. o000o

    o000o

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    528
    The thing is Gran Turismo have it, despite the overly cynical fans and haters claiming otherwise. There was qualifying on GT1 and GT3, also GT4 for Championships.
    upload_2020-8-14_19-7-35.png

    The solution to increase the challenge is sadly removing this and implementing rolling start instead of working on the AI.
     
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  3. linksracer

    linksracer

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    286
    Having been playing some Assetto Corsa (yes the original, I haven't bought ACC ... yet), it's put the spotlight on many of the problems that the GT Sport A.I have. Not just in how competitive they are against the player, but also in awareness and technique.

    The A.I need a proper overhaul for GT7, quite frankly the way they behave currently is just sub par, especially for a racing game of this status.

    For starters, the throttle and brake applications need to be much smoother than they currently are, especially around corners. I'm sure we've all had the unfortunate experience of watching an A.I slam the throttle and then brake trying to navigate the longer corners. Trying to follow these cars is near impossible without contact (which is important if you're interested in getting the clean race bonus), and trying to pass is equally as difficult since their pedal inputs create a load of unpredictability when it comes to their racing line. Certain cars really make this effect apparent, such as the pig that is the La Ferrari with its lack of downforce. Watch how the A.I attempts to drive the La Ferrari in any of the "La Festa Cavallino" events, its really quite the sight.

    Next up is their awareness of where you are. Now they are kind of good at this most of the time, if I'm being generous. But the rest of the time, they will turn in as if you're not there, hit your quarter panels trying to return to the racing line, rear end you in braking zones (on the odd occasion that they've hit the brakes later than you) or, and yes this did happen to me, miss the braking point for T1 & 2 Monza entirely, swerve off course, then attempt to return to the track by cutting the chicane entirely and T-boning me perpendicular to the direction of the track, square in the passenger door. I've also recently had the experience of being aggressively side swiped before a braking zone by a La Ferrari who had a massive speed advantage over my 388 GTO. For context, I was driving in a straight line, La Ferrari flies past hunting the racing line, and in the process slamming into the side of my car whilst continuing to fly past. I was lucky to be able to stay on track, but that was really something I would expect to experience in an online lobby.

    Finally, their aggressiveness. This should be adjustable on a sliding scale. Some of the custom races, you'll see A.I use their indicator and move over to let you past even if it is for position. Most GT League races they don't perform any defensive manoeuvres apart from their ridiculous driving style, and they won't bother trying to pass unless the road ahead is dead straight. Having a sliding scale will allow people to set the A.I to behave how they like. I've seen some of the replies here suggest they aren't interested in A.I that actively defend and attack, so they can set the aggressiveness lower down on the scale. Anyone who wants more competitive racing can set the scale accordingly, and if you want the A.I to go crazy you can set the scale as aggressive as possible.

    When you see the quality of the A.I in other racing games, it really begs the question, why are the GT Sport A.I so rubbish? It's like they haven't updated the A.I behaviour since GT3. If anything GT Sport is a step backwards compared to GT5 & GT6. Atleast the A.I there didn't alternate between max power and max brakes mid corner in those games.
     
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  4. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
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    I'd say it has to do with majority of players still playing offline.

    I have never played any Project Cars games online. AI are competitive.
    I did one online race in ACC. Was a good experience, but the AI are competitive to me. I prefer offline.

    AC1, I never played online. AI are competitve.

    Played a few online races in Forza games, but again, AI were competitive enough for me in those games.

    I played online in GT5 & GT6. Most of the time to show off a car. Sometimes to race. I agree the AI was bad, but I did enjoy the offline replayability of those games.

    I can say I have played way more online in GT Sport than when I initially played offline. Didn't think I would play this much, but the AI competitiveness just isn't consistent. Varies too much with track and car type.

    I'm hoping PD hiring AI programmers, will either give us a baseline of good competitive AI or on par with other racing games I've experienced.
     
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  5. Shingo_civic

    Shingo_civic

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    301
    This was retwitted by Teramoto



    Here the full video:

     
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  6. SuperKlonoaGT

    SuperKlonoaGT

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    359
    Location:
    United States
    Teramoto from PD? He has a Twitter account?
     
  7. Shingo_civic

    Shingo_civic

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    301
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  8. JTB10000

    JTB10000

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    He probably retweeted this because he just found it cool; I doubt it relates to anything. Not every action PD staff makes is a cryptic hint about the game. It would be cool if PD were relying on machine learning to make the A I. better though. Is the A.I. learning on its own instead of someone having to program it for each individual track a thing? I imagine that would save time if it's possible.
     
  9. Shingo_civic

    Shingo_civic

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    301
    I don't know if he posted this just because it found it cool,but it's not just a fanmade project,PD themseves have offered data to Zurig University to make this AI.



    Let's hope this will have repercussions also on GT7
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
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  10. ArR29

    ArR29

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    589
    I hope that's actually the case. I like that PD is outsourcing now. There's nothing wrong with admitting some of your weakness and looking for outside help.
     
  11. Nigrick

    Nigrick

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    274
    Location:
    Canada
    This is impressive. But I wonder how AI will behave with other cars on track? Anyway, this is existing! Thanks for sharing.
     
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  12. Samus

    Samus

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    18,945
    Yes but they're doing that with an AI network powered by external hardware. Doing that in the game using only the limited, shared console hardware is a totally different proposition.
     
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  13. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    Hmm, since PD have the data of how players drive, maybe that is why the cars always stick to the racing line in the past. Anyone have knowledge of how AI were programmed in past GT games?
     
  14. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    9,268
    Location:
    Australia
    Surely this machine learning can be adapted into an AI model fit for use on the PS5.
     
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  15. Samus

    Samus

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    18,945
    No, not really. Look at what they're using. They need to simulate 80 cars with 4 PS4s and interact that with their desktop PC, utilising CPU and GPU.

    [​IMG]

    There is no "adapting" that i'm afraid. It's a nice glimpse of the far future, but nothing more.
     
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  16. GTR365

    GTR365 Premium

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    The videos shared fill me with fantastic, yet perhaps unrealistic, hope. These resemble qualie runs which are able to ignore the compromises which exist in multicar competition.


    Still i have hope of some level of implementation. Another wish would be our ability to add these better AI drivers into low membership rooms to fill the grid in lobbies.


    I wonder, does this setup they describe involve just their development? Could some result(s) be baked into GT7 (without, of course, any promise of future refinement)?

    The technology of this topic of machine learning still is relatively nascent with respect to usable applications. I would love a system which could adapt AI drivers to a human player's skill/experience level in such a way which each could improve while hoping that the blind would not lead the blind astray.
     
  17. Liquid

    Liquid Premium

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    Slovakia
    To answer the OP, you're looking too much into too little.

    There is zero possibility to know at this stage until a feature-length gameplay video is released.
     
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  18. GTR365

    GTR365 Premium

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    Location:
    United States
    As an aside, UZH Robotics and Perception Group YouTube page (https://www.youtube.com/user/ailabRPG/featured) looks quite interesting concerning intelligent machine motion control.

    From the about tab on their page, "Our mission is to develop autonomous machines that can navigate all by themselves using only onboard cameras, without relying on external infrastructure, such as GPS or motion capture systems. Our interests encompass both ground and micro flying robots, as well as multi-robot heterogeneous systems consisting of the combination of these two."

    Some of the systems where I work are able to adjust offsets based on in-line gauging or to make fine pick-n-place adjustments based on vision system cameras, but most environments are very stable & repetitive. This looks very cutting edge; give it a peek.
     
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  19. SportCoaster

    SportCoaster

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    64
    Wait a minute, I notice something in a part of the Trailer: the Car tackling the other Car doesn't quite hit the Car, yet the Car reacts, like there is some sort of invisible wall around the Car. I noticed the same thing in Gran Turismo 6 and even GT Sport. The Cars sometimes don't really have to touch in order to bump into eachother.
     
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  20. Samus

    Samus

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    18,945
    Your capitalisation of the word 'car' is....odd.
     
  21. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's called a collision box, assets in a game that can collide with each other have one. It's an invisible box that surrounds the object and when two objects collide it's actually the collision boxes determining the collision not what you can see on screen. Depending on the shape of the object you can see and the point of impact between the collision boxes you will sometimes notice a gap between the game assets.
     
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