Gran Turismo 7: How Trial Mountain Has Changed

1,216
United States
somewhere near Trial Mountain
oldbusanubis
GT7 is still a WIP so there is no telling whether this is the final trial mountain or if they'll make changes.
 
1,945
Czech Republic
Prague
karelpipa
It's not quite as simple. The way the track is formed manages it. In every corner, people can ram and be rammed, but if it had the old chicane, someone could hit the slope and fly onto the cars in front of them, causing other cars to lose control worse than they would in any other location in the game, causing a horrible pile-up that more or less can't be fixed. If someone rams someone on the old chicane, they could cause a pileup like this.
In the new chicane, theres no runoff areas, so the pile up would be exactly the same. But no fun for hotlapping.
You can also add walls to the left side to prevent this on the old chicane. Not completely destroy the flow of the first part of the lap.
 
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83
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RebellionMist
Rebellion765
tbh, I'm not a big fan of what they did to this track.

Taking the original layout as a base, I did my own rendition of it. The main goal was to fix the death chicane, which was the biggest issue of the original layout imo.
Here it is in comparison to the GT7 layout:

w1kRKta.png
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,275
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
tbh, I'm not a big fan of what they did to this track.

Taking the original layout as a base, I did my own rendition of it. The main goal was to fix the death chicane, which was the biggest issue of the original layout imo.
Here it is in comparison to the GT7 layout:

w1kRKta.png
Fair play for triyng something new, but I don't get the point in swapping the S bend from a left - right to a right - left. You could do the same angles on that final chicane without mirroring the direction of the corners (albeit the angles would obviousely be mirrored as a result). Unelss your aim is to slow the cars down before the S bend by adding the extra corner before it but there are other ways to do that.

I don't mind the changes PD have made as of yet, but I will have to reserve final judgment for when I have played it.
 
1,945
Czech Republic
Prague
karelpipa
But pro players will like it more, hence they remade it, because their times are so close up, they need to have 90 degree chicanes to be able to overtake.
But its bad for average gamers :(
 
698
Brazil
Brazil
I think my opinion is quite different from that of most users when it comes to modifying classic circuits.

Honestly, I think an extended version of Deep Forest will have a fantastic layout. After the first curve, a sequence of "S" can be placed with ascents and descents and culminating and a turn of 200º. I think this will be done, even as a means to support the excessive number of cars and high-speed cars, such as Gr. 1.
 
729
Brazil
Brazil
The new chicane at Trial Mountain is ridiculous. It's destined to be like the 1st chicane at Monza. And with that wall at the entrance folks are going to be bouncing all over each other in Sport Mode, or whatever they will call it.

I dont think so, the Chicane at Monza comes right after the starting line, after a straightaway.

This one comes at the end of the lap, after a slow section on the mountain, notice how the downhill section before the chicane has had it's angle reduced from what it was from the OG layout.

This means that the bad drivers who are the ones who would crash at your rear on Monza, would have been left behind on Trial Mountain before the Chicane comes for you.

The lack of run-off areas is still a problem alright, but overall I dont see how this could be a problem as big as Monza's is.
 
2,104
United States
United States
G_ASHER
I dont think so, the Chicane at Monza comes right after the starting line, after a straightaway.

This one comes at the end of the lap, after a slow section on the mountain, notice how the downhill section before the chicane has had it's angle reduced from what it was from the OG layout.

This means that the bad drivers who are the ones who would crash at your rear on Monza, would have been left behind on Trial Mountain before the Chicane comes for you.

The lack of run-off areas is still a problem alright, but overall I dont see how this could be a problem as big as Monza's is.

Those are good points. I should have referenced Spa. If I'm in a group of folks I don't know (like in Sport races) I hold my breath at the bus stop if anyone is even close me.
 

LeGeNd-1

Premium
6,799
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
I dont think so, the Chicane at Monza comes right after the starting line, after a straightaway.

This one comes at the end of the lap, after a slow section on the mountain, notice how the downhill section before the chicane has had it's angle reduced from what it was from the OG layout.

This means that the bad drivers who are the ones who would crash at your rear on Monza, would have been left behind on Trial Mountain before the Chicane comes for you.

The lack of run-off areas is still a problem alright, but overall I dont see how this could be a problem as big as Monza's is.

If we race on the reverse layout, the chicane will become the first corner. Say hello to carnage.

Also I alluded this in my other thread, having a super tight chicane as the last corner means anybody starting in the midfield/lower grid positions are going to be hugely disadvantaged with GT's very widely spread out rolling starts.

Honestly, I don't mind so much the graphical and stretching of the rest of the track, but this last corner change has zero good points no matter how you look at it. It's just designed to encourage more of those last corner last lap lunges in FIA events which has potential to go viral and grab more views (see Kokubun vs Carazza @ Sarthe or Cody vs Miyazono @ Dragon Trail).
 
233
Canada
Orillia, ON
To me at least it seems a number of folks think the reason for the change is only the final chicane, whereas (probably) the main reason is to accommodate a pit lane that can hold 20+ cars. The pitlane in the old layout would need to extend all the way out to turn 3 maybe to fit that many cars.
 

Barra333

Premium
5,956
Canada
London, ON
barra333
To me at least it seems a number of folks think the reason for the change is only the final chicane, whereas (probably) the main reason is to accommodate a pit lane that can hold 20+ cars. The pitlane in the old layout would need to extend all the way out to turn 3 maybe to fit that many cars.
The front and back straights are almost perfectly parallel - they could have extended both to accommodate a bigger pit lane without changing anything. Like it or not, they chose to change the last chicane.
I also think it is unfair to bag it solely based on an in game track map seen at least 6 months before release.
 

Liquid

Fission Mailed
Premium
24,916
Slovakia
Bratvegas
GTP_Liquid
One thing about the new Trial Mountain I have noticed which appears to have gone under the radar a little bit is that the steepness of the climb down from turn 4 into turn 5. It's way flatter now which I am actually okay with; flying out of that left-hander tunnel and trying to thread the car perfectly over the jump was always so difficult to get perfect on a consistent, lap after lap basis.

And I say this as someone who loves Eiger Nordwand. A steep incline/decline is fine but the jump was a bit too much.
 
2,563
United States
Connecticut.
UKOG-Matt
mwoodski
Honestly, I don't mind so much the graphical and stretching of the rest of the track, but this last corner change has zero good points no matter how you look at it. It's just designed to encourage more of those last corner last lap lunges in FIA events which has potential to go viral and grab more views (see Kokubun vs Carazza @ Sarthe or Cody vs Miyazono @ Dragon Trail).
So it's designed to be a passing area, which is always good, considering the old one wasn't.
 

LeGeNd-1

Premium
6,799
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
So it's designed to be a passing area, which is always good, considering the old one wasn't.

Yes, a highly risky passing area at that. Unless you get a much better exit from the previous left turn, it will just encourage silly divebombs from 5 car lengths back that will end in carnage most of the time. Alternatively, because it's a long chicane (essentially almost two separate 90 degree corners), the car on the outside will become the inside in the next turn and can just run you off the road or into the wall. No passing done, but just looks "cool" to have these battling moments in live broadcast.

The old fast chicane, you can't pass BUT it's a challenge to nail correctly and if you mess it up, the car behind can capitalise down the straight and pass in the upcoming esses (which are now super wide and can definitely accommodate 2 cars side by side).
 
3,872
Australia
Australia
To me at least it seems a number of folks think the reason for the change is only the final chicane, whereas (probably) the main reason is to accommodate a pit lane that can hold 20+ cars. The pitlane in the old layout would need to extend all the way out to turn 3 maybe to fit that many cars.

The game fakes pitstops so it doesnt matter though.

And even if it did, you could easily move the pit entrance further back before the chicane.

So it's designed to be a passing area, which is always good, considering the old one wasn't.

You dont need to be able to pass at every corner. If people didnt like the Trial Mountain layout as it was, they wouldn'tve requested it return.
 
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55
United States
United States
Read through most of the thread, I can't really make an argument because like one said it's a sign of the times.

I've been replaying GT4 for the first time since I was a kid in 2004/5, something I've noticed is how Gran Turismo at that time focused heavily on blending realism with fantasy. They acknowledged that they could make the lighting and car models, physics very realistic for their time.. While retaining a sense of fantasy a video game can offer.

This ethos came through in many forms, from utilizing concept cars to the design of the tracks. Going back to it I'm having much more fun than I have in GT Sport (though the archaic controls and physics frustrate me a bit.)

Responses about e-sports and how they need DRS zones, longer pit lanes, tight chicanes to create passing zones...Just makes me a bit sad. Because when e-sports dictate track design it results in one universal type of track with a set list of requirements. How fun will this track be on a small, low powered car with the long straights? How much suspense does the final tight chicane provide? The reality is the games are steering away from players like myself, I just have to grin and bear it.
 
2,678
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
I think these changes are what's really needed for a majority of original courses from the series, with the only exception being Apricot Hill, as I think that course is largely fine as-is. A lot of real-world courses undergo changes from time-to-time, so why not have this apply to GT's original courses as well? In fact, I think some original courses are obsolete, such as the Test Course and SuperSpeedway, especially when we respectively have Special Stage Route X and Northern Isle Speedway.

Another thing to consider is that as far as the city courses go, they could be entirely replaced with the real-world Formula E circuit, notably for locales such as NYC and Hong Kong. (Even though GT4's course was in Manhattan, whereas Formula E's course is set in Brooklyn.)

Finally, I'd take the tighter courses from GT4 where only two cars could be on the course, and turn them into point-to-point rally stages, where the goal is no longer a race, but a time attack, much like the Goodwood Hillclimb in GT6. I think this would be much better.
 
55
United States
United States
I think these changes are what's really needed for a majority of original courses from the series, with the only exception being Apricot Hill, as I think that course is largely fine as-is. A lot of real-world courses undergo changes from time-to-time, so why not have this apply to GT's original courses as well? In fact, I think some original courses are obsolete, such as the Test Course and SuperSpeedway, especially when we respectively have Special Stage Route X and Northern Isle Speedway.

Another thing to consider is that as far as the city courses go, they could be entirely replaced with the real-world Formula E circuit, notably for locales such as NYC and Hong Kong. (Even though GT4's course was in Manhattan, whereas Formula E's course is set in Brooklyn.)

Finally, I'd take the tighter courses from GT4 where only two cars could be on the course, and turn them into point-to-point rally stages, where the goal is no longer a race, but a time attack, much like the Goodwood Hillclimb in GT6. I think this would be much better.

First part I have to agree by about 50%. I agree that a refresh is needed on the original circuits. But I don't think anyone was playing GT4 and thought "You know what Trial Mountain needs? A bus stop chicane and much longer straights." Adjusting the scenery to the PS5's capability, making track markers and rumble strips more realistic I am all for. But taking a fan favorite and removing some features that made it a fan favorite is not quite my idea of a "refresh." Taking a whimsical old school GT track and modifying to cater to GT Sport fans seems iffy but again that's just my opinion.

The real world Formula E examples I can get behind as they look like genuinely better layouts.
hong-kong-track-map.png

Hong Kong
nyc-red-hook.png

NYC

As far as Super Speedway...Just bring in the entire Twin Ring Motegi complex and I'll be very happy. Not obsolete imo.

I can also get behind changing places like Aria and Amalfi into a to b rally stages...However that creates a lot more modeling for PD. Unless a 2min rally is sufficient (before going back to menus and repeat) - they will have to model a much more expansive town environment. Which seems unlikely.

Also another thing I've been thinking of - the use of the Earth in "GT World." There were many locationally ambiguous tracks in old school GT. And if they return they will have to be shoe horned into real world locations. Can SSR5 work if it's placed in real world Tokyo or Osaka etc? Where is "Mid Field"? Poor Nessie and the Monkey got bopped in Trial Mountain...idk I just hope it works out haha.
 

ScottPye20

I want to be monkey
Premium
10,689
Australia
Melbourne
ScottPye20
First part I have to agree by about 50%. I agree that a refresh is needed on the original circuits. But I don't think anyone was playing GT4 and thought "You know what Trial Mountain needs? A bus stop chicane and much longer straights." .
I did! The original track was too compact in my opinion - Trail Mountain is made out to be this grand and challenging track but it didn't always feel that way in the past. Making the lap longer enhances the experience, because you can spend more time on it!
 
55
United States
United States
I did! The original track was too compact in my opinion - Trail Mountain is made out to be this grand and challenging track but it didn't always feel that way in the past. Making the lap longer enhances the experience, because you can spend more time on it!

I can see the longer part but...The chicane too?
 
38,405
Australia
The Bronx
I can see the longer part but...The chicane too?
In trying to simulate a bit Preakness with Original Circuit track design, I say yes. Yes, the chicane too.

Off the top of my head, Spa, Suzuka and Gilles Villeneuve have chicanes that slow the cars right down, before the run to the flag. The redesign of Trial Mountain suits that same type of run.