Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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TumeK5
You're questioning that now?

PD could do so much better with GT7 in general, but they choose not to. I mean, you should know, as the creator of a career mode... ;)
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Hah! Yes, indeed, they can. But man, I would not have expected something like this of PD. This feels like design common sense rather than a mis-step. I suppose you could argue the same regarding the menu book system to a degree, but if so, I think there are levels to it, they should’ve done better with the menus but perhaps they just didn’t have the right focus in mind. Which is still a fault of design, but I can at least imagine they had good intentions with it.

With this, come on. Play your own game and see how it is has zero benefit in intention or in reality. There are other balancing methods already in the game - don’t meddle with AI on an un-adjustable level when it simply makes them worse. Competitiveness can be dialled back with difficulty options.

To have overlooked every other measure in the game to increase competitiveness, is a massive failure. And quite frankly, whoever was responsible should be subject to an internal review to explain their decision.

I’m not saying they should be fired, but just explain your reasoning and why you thought it was beneficial.

Then, bring up counterpoints as to why it’s a bad idea and either the person continues to learn (or maybe this is one error of design and they are otherwise good designers) or they realise the mistake and avoid it in future, considering all other in-game measures towards a specific goal, before adjusting something on a level that the player has no control over.

PD are so frustrating. They have a wonderful physics system dogged by poor design - and to be quite honest, when you have the past to compare to, the menu books become less defensible even as design with good intentions. Because you can compare to the past and realise how it stacks up, what the past does better and why.

Whoever is making the calls needs to do a deep dive into GT3 and GT4’s career structure, and then look at everyone around them in the racing genre. And then, with all of that in mind, combine those learnings with your own goal for the career - avoiding pitfalls, innovating where you can, but don’t innovate for the sake of doing something new - innovate because it’s novel and better than what came before it.

Do better, PD. You have the ability. Hell, even if the people who design the career are newer members (GT5/6 onwards, though the GT League exists, and while not fully featured like GT3/GT4, I imagine at least some who worked on that are still at PD today) - Kaz is still there. No doubt he had some hand in the career structure of the old games, even if he’s just giving his approval or disapproval - changes would’ve been made based on that. Kaz knows what works - or at least I would hope so.

All respect to the man, I don’t know if he’s solely calling the shots on the game design, though I doubt he doesn’t have at least approve/disapprove of the design. But he has a baseline to compare to, and if he’s approving this, then it falls on him too.

Hell, even if the designers are newer to the genre, good designers can still look back at classic GT games and see what worked, or, if you want to separate yourself structure wise, a good designer can come up with something novel and better at the same time. Sure, it may not be easy, but it can be done. They have the time and the budget. So, really, there is no excuse.
 
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But is anyone here going to boycott the game, or do anything of actual significance to try and change things? Likely not, even if we should.
Bleak I know, but that's just the reality of the situation. It happened once near the start of GT7's lifecycle, but it's unlikely to happen again unless it's something along the lines of scamming customers.

As for career stuff, GT3's was unbelievably padded looking back. I recently completed it for the first time. There is no need for 3 seperate Yaris/Vitz tournaments, all consisting of 5 races using the exact same tracks with increased lap counts. And that's just one example.
GT4 had a similar issue but to a lesser extent, such as with the rally events. Plus I have never entered most of the one-make events because the event itself seemed fun, but only because of a prize car I looked up on an online guide.

Just having content isn't the solution, it's having the content mean something of significance rather than it just be padding to stretch out the play time like a chore. Achieving that feeling is perhaps more tricky.

For the record, I still do enjoy both GT3 & GT4, otherwise I wouldn't revisit them now and again. Even if the main reason I do so is for the unique tracks rather than the career modes. Same reason why I bought Assetto Corsa & ACC. The unique content.
 
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PSN offapple
But is anyone here going to boycott the game, or do anything of actual significance to try and change things? Likely not, even if we should.
Bleak I know, but that's just the reality of the situation. It happened once near the start of GT7's lifecycle, but it's unlikely to happen again unless it's something along the lines of scamming customers.

As for career stuff, GT3's was unbelievably padded looking back. I recently completed it for the first time. There is no need for 3 seperate Yaris/Vitz tournaments, all consisting of 5 races using the exact same tracks with increased lap counts. And that's just one example.
GT4 had a similar issue but to a lesser extent, such as with the rally events. Plus I have never entered most of the one-make events because the event itself seemed fun, but only because of a prize car I looked up on an online guide.

Just having content isn't the solution, it's having the content mean something of significance rather than it just be padding to stretch out the play time like a chore. Achieving that feeling is perhaps more tricky.

For the record, I still do enjoy both GT3 & GT4, otherwise I wouldn't revisit them now and again. Even if the main reason I do so is for the unique tracks rather than the career modes. Same reason why I bought Assetto Corsa & ACC. The unique content.
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Previous GTs did have padding issues. Although overall I think GT3 was pretty lean. The repeated events such as the FF, FR, MR challenge etc, give a sense of progression within that car class. You’re right about the Vitz races. But besides a leaner career, what PD can take from them is the progression structure. You can do that with a leaner, or otherwise more meaningful career (i.e not having three near-identical Vitz events).

As for boycotting or something of significance, it’s unfortunate because the underpinnings of the game - the driving - is really good, and enjoyable. I don’t play the single player too much. I’m still on the Super Formula menu book.

I wish we could give feedback direct to PD or in a place where we know that they’ll see, but they seem quite closed off. At least they might view the feedback, but we have no way of knowing. And whether they implement it is another story.

People on GTP, which is the largest GT community, have been very vocal about multiple parts of the game that PD either refuse to even acknowledge or don’t go all the way in fixing them (i.e no post-launch car requires an invite regardless of its price and/or exclusivity, but the invite system still exists without any modification to how it works).

GTP alone I could see not being big enough, but there are community-wide (GTP, Reddit) issues that people have and little has been done about them.
 
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Theufcveteran
Previous GTs did have padding issues. Although overall I think GT3 was pretty lean. The repeated events such as the FF, FR, MR challenge etc, give a sense of progression within that car class. You’re right about the Vitz races. But besides a leaner career, what PD can take from them is the progression structure. You can do that with a leaner, or otherwise more meaningful career (i.e not having three near-identical Vitz events).

As for boycotting or something of significance, it’s unfortunate because the underpinnings of the game - the driving - is really good, and enjoyable. I don’t play the single player too much, I’m still on the Super Formula menu book.

I wish we could give feedback direct to PD or in a place where we know that they’ll see, but they seem quite closed off. At least they might view the feedback, but we have no way of knowing. And whether they implement it is another story.

People on GTP, which is the largest GT community, have been very vocal about multiple parts of the game that PD either refuse to even acknowledge or don’t go all the way in fixing them (i.e no post-launch car requires an invite regardless of its price and/or exclusivity, but the invite system still exists without any modification to how it works).

GTP alone I could see not being big enough, but there are community-wide (GTP, Reddit) issues that people have and little has been done about them.
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I saw that you've made your own custom career mode, so I'm interested in seeing how you've gone about structuring things.
I have been developing my own for a while (albeit slowly), so it's cool seeing someone else with a similar idea.
The Custom Race feature I think has been my favourite addition to the GT series ever.
Happy they added a few more A.I. driver nationalities, So I can have S. Buemi from Switzerland, J. M. Lopez from Argentina etc.
Still hope South Africa gets added for the van der Linde brothers though haha.


Tangent Edit: have a broadcast schedule:

 
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Nebuc72
They are aware of it, I fed it through Mikail Hizal and PD confirmed it's an intentional design decision, lol. Same with the forced rubber banding.
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This is interesting because I am pretty sure AI uses 100% throttle all the time if you use group cars (like gr.4,3,2,1) and bop set on.
 
Anyone having server issues just then?
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Something is downloading and I don’t know what.
Well, it’s back to normal and I haven’t touched anything. Weird.
 
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MroczMR
This is interesting because I am pretty sure AI uses 100% throttle all the time if you use group cars (like gr.4,3,2,1) and bop set on.
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I have tested this with Gr.1 cars, and at least with them, they do not. Until the first braking zone they will, but afterwards they’ll use 97% throttle for the rest of the race.
 
wagnerFAM98
But in April the maintenance notice arrived on the first hours of Monday, something that always happens around that time, and it hasn't happened now. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but unless something official drops or @TheAdmiester gives us a shout of what exactly is happening, I don't think we'll see an update this month, but one in early (or even late) July instead. Hope I'm deadly wrong.

Edit: I remember he said that a time trial using an update car helped him define the May 30 update was indeed a thing, let's see if that's the case again.
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Nope, the day before, look:
 
Theufcveteran
I have tested this with Gr.1 cars, and at least with them, they do not. Until the first braking zone they will, but afterwards they’ll use 97% throttle for the rest of the race.
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I might be misremembering, but I think that the A.I. doesn't use full throttle even when they artificially boost their pace when the player is leading
 
Am I the only one who hates it when someone decides to post an old Kaz tweet when we’re all waiting for a new one? It’s like being told your cancer test came out negative, but then five seconds later the doctor realizes it’s actually positive.
 
PSN offapple
I might be misremembering, but I think that the A.I. doesn't use full throttle even when they artificially boost their pace when the player is leading
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Haven’t checked a far-back AI, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Truly a baffling decision, the 97% throttle in custom races.
 
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PSN offapple
I might be misremembering, but I think that the A.I. doesn't use full throttle even when they artificially boost their pace when the player is leading
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That makes it even funnier. After they pit in a race these guys are out there lapping La Sarthe 5 seconds faster than I possibly can without even using full throttle, and then when I pit in the next lap they lap 10 seconds slower than me to balance the 5 seconds they made up while they were rubberbanding last lap. PD view this as the peak gaming experience. :lol: The AI seems to be surprisingly complex, it's just they choose to make them rubbish (especially seeing as they can make them work quite well, as evidenced in Clubman Cup + races and the special weekly events), which is hilarious in my mind. Frustrating? Yes, but you just have to laugh or you'll cry.
 
Theufcveteran
I wish we could give feedback direct to PD or in a place where we know that they’ll see, but they seem quite closed off. At least they might view the feedback, but we have no way of knowing. And whether they implement it is another story.

People on GTP, which is the largest GT community, have been very vocal about multiple parts of the game that PD either refuse to even acknowledge or don’t go all the way in fixing them (i.e no post-launch car requires an invite regardless of its price and/or exclusivity, but the invite system still exists without any modification to how it works).

GTP alone I could see not being big enough, but there are community-wide (GTP, Reddit) issues that people have and little has been done about them.
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PD is unfortunately just a black hole of communication, and that's how they've been for the entire history of the franchise. I'm not even sure if they see any of the things people post on social media, honestly.

Edit: Oh, and not to mention the fact that a majority of the complaints people have with GT7 have already been confirmed to be intentional design decisions... no matter how idiotic they may seem. :lol:
 
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hyperspeed980
PD is unfortunately just a black hole of communication, and that's how they've been for the entire history of the franchise. I'm not even sure if they see any of the things people post on social media, honestly.
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Yeah, I think the most they ever engaged with the community to my knowledge was with the Kaz Q&A on GTP that never had any answers.
 
There is something I don't understand. After making these types of AA games, why are they not interested in games? Why is what the players say or want not done? This seems so ridiculous to me. Example: GT7 and RDR2
 
CMGMS
There is something I don't understand. After making these types of AA games, why are they not interested in games? Why is what the players say or want not done? This seems so ridiculous to me. Example: GT7 and RDR2
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The publishers don't exactly have an incentive to keep up support for the game beyond the bare minimum if they aren't making enough of a profit from it. It's very rare that we get an NFS Unbound-type situation where the support is extended.

Sucks for the consumer, but that's just the way they do things.
 
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hyperspeed980
I forgot that even happened. :lol:
Sums it all up though, doesn't it? Even when the community's asking questions right in front of him, they get no answers.
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Yeah, unfortunately. If I ever become a CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment, I shall be requesting a community Q&A with Kaz, this time with answers :P

One can dream, lol.
 
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hyperspeed980
The publishers don't exactly have an incentive to keep up support for the game beyond the bare minimum if they aren't making enough of a profit from it. It's very rare that we get an NFS Unbound-type situation where the support is extended.

Sucks for the consumer, but that's just the way they do things.
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yep nowdays its bare minimum from big publishers unless its a big budget game or a on going live service
 
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Nielsen
Am I the only one who hates it when someone decides to post an old Kaz tweet when we’re all waiting for a new one? It’s like being told your cancer test came out negative, but then five seconds later the doctor realizes it’s actually positive.
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Comparing getting a monthly update or not with cancer diagnosis. Most sane GT fanatic 😅
 
PSN offapple
But is anyone here going to boycott the game, or do anything of actual significance to try and change things? Likely not, even if we should.
Bleak I know, but that's just the reality of the situation. It happened once near the start of GT7's lifecycle, but it's unlikely to happen again unless it's something along the lines of scamming customers.
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It’s a bit difficult to boycott both GT and a specific aspect within the game (like AI), separately.

It’s hard in general to boycott GT as a franchise because it doesn’t have active continuous monetization - no season/battle passes or major paid DLC expansions - if we bought the game PD already has our money, they don’t have an obligation to change anything, no proverbial “financial foot on the neck”. The most power the community has over the developers would maybe be boycotting Sport mode, as the esports players are in some ways an intermediary for feedback. However, that doesn’t necessarily promote a “focus” on the problematic area with a community of GT’s size, if anything it might just make them scramble to make Sport better (like penalties and daily race selections) and that’s it.

There’s little to no way to get PD to focus on community gripes (like AI) with how little community spaces there are to interact or at least see feedback. Plus, with AI as an example, I don’t recall that ever being a specific marketing point or feature in any trailer of the past four games - so it’s not like there’s a good fulcrum or argument point to boycott on even if you wanted to boycott by just not purchasing the next game (and even then, releases are looking to average around 4-5 years… so this process just gets slower and slower). The closest it came was Sophy, and even Sophy AI came later and was always marketed as a non-expansive functionality for the time being with no set timeframe or map of when or what it could fully be. If you wanted to quit GT over AI nonsense to stick it to PD they have no incentive to care, as there’s no change in their revenue from it until the next product goes on sale years down the line, which will still probably sell very well to the rabid fans and casual market. As well, there’s unlikely to be a Venn diagram that has a cross section of players that would be willing to stop playing GT7 as some sort of “boycott” that also purchased microtransaction credit packs - seemingly those too also only sell to diehard (perhaps delusional) fans, casual market, or folks with a lot of disposable income and not as much time to play games, none of which are likely to know, or more importantly, care about the depths of the AI problems.

It’s a baffling problem to try to solve as a fan, but even more baffling that the problem exists in the first place - there isn’t a financial incentive to keep the AI and/or sub-100 throttle usage neutered, and they already have some difficulty settings in the game, so there is accessible programming behind it. There isn’t some guy in an office in Japan twiddling an evil little mustache just to see how far he can push things - that’s absurd. But I don’t know why there’s so many design choices like this going on throughout so many aspects of modern GT games - many were also in in Sport, but I’d argue you could trace some as far back as GT6, AI especially.

Literally just having an option to strip the rubber bands and algorithms and letting the AI vehicles drive as they would naturally in the game would be an improvement to what we have now.
 
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I, as most others I would have thought, would still like to see more high paying races, remember Kaz`letter to the community especially the line;
I would like to try to avoid a situation where a player must mechanically keep replaying certain events over and over again
We can still hope. :lol:
 
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