Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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VinylRichie
A longer TLOU for example (which also has around the same length) wouldn’t make the Game better, it would probably be worse, I actually think games like these became the masterpieces they are because of their focus, because they told what they wanted to tell and didn’t distract the gamer with unnecessary stuff, keep the momentum going.
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You’re right that the lenght of game doesn’t determine how good it is, but the writers have to make sure they utilize the lenght wisely. I cannot comment on Astro Bot, but both GT7 and The Last of Us fail at this.

The GT7 campaign only lasted a few days, and so much obvious content was ignored by PD. They failed to make a short game that was well-rounded. I think the same is somewhat true for TLOU with the final part feeling rushed.

Korvregn
If we should rate how good games are after how long it takes to complete them (for example getting all trophies or cough cough collect all cars) GT7 would be rated at 214/100.
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There’s a difference between completing the “story” mode and going for 100%. Let’s not lose sight of the actual topic.
 
Nielsen
You’re right that the lenght of game doesn’t determine how good it is, but the writers have to make sure they utilize the lenght wisely. I cannot comment on Astro Bot, but both GT7 and The Last of Us fail at this.

The GT7 campaign only lasted a few days, and so much obvious content was ignored by PD. They failed to make a short game that was well-rounded. I think the same is somewhat true for TLOU with the final part feeling rushed.


There’s a difference between completing the “story” mode and going for 100%. Let’s not lose sight of the actual topic.
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When it comes to the campaign of GT7, I agree to some degree (but in that case I would call them designers not writers). But GT7 isn’t comparable to these other games (and I personally took a lot longer to complete the campaign btw), there’s a lot more to factor in, which is really difficult in the case of GT7 imo, because it has such outstanding parts that no other racing game can compete with, but also lacks so much in other departments which I don’t understand why.

About TLOU I don’t agree, I never felt that anything was rushed there, I always felt that these games (and Uncharted too, especially Uncharted 4) are almost perfect when it comes to pacing and good timing, it feels really natural the way the story unfolds, paired with the right amount of good engaging gameplay and freedom.
Which Part do you mean, Part 1 or 2?
 
NAXEHT
GT7 platinum was easy and quick, to be frank.
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Quick? Isn't their an achievement for driving the length of all of Germany's Autobahns combined still?

I wonder how long doing that would take using a Tomahawk on Route X actually
 
I had my own thoughts on GT7's trophies, like how I think they could've used different criteria for the two scapes trophies rather than featuring the exact same cars and locations as the scapes trophies from GT Sport did. Or how I would've totally been down for something like beating a real-world lap time - I think GT5 did something similar with the '07 R35 GT-R at the Nurburgring.

Personally, I think trophies should ideally function as providing players with a solid but reasonable challenge (unlike GT Sport's trophies for poles/wins in Sport Mode) while also giving the devs metadata that allows them to potentially track certain player trends and behaviors. I imagine a developer ideally examining how many players have acquired a certain trophy, and then using that data to inform the devs of how much players are utilizing a certain gameplay element that the trophy requires one to use, such as photomode or installing a widebody.

Of course, there is the further challenge of designing a trophy list based on the launch version of a game when there are post-launch updates, as seen with every GT game since 5.
 
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VinylRichie
How long a game takes isn’t really a good point to make when it comes to a games quality (or score following your argumentation).
A good gaming journalist shouldn’t score a game lower just because it’s not as long as other games. If the game has quality and if you can feel there’s passion in it, and if you can see that the game is as it should be, as the developers envisioned and wasn’t shortened, lengthened or rushed in any kind, then it deserves the score it deserves and shouldn’t be artificially lowered because some people demand more and more nowadays. This often results in more content over quality, so I for myself find it refreshing to see this focus on quality and prefer something like this over packed games like Assassins creed etc.. For a lot of people the shorter campaign is a plus not a minus. A longer TLOU for example (which also has around the same length) wouldn’t make the Game better, it would probably be worse, I actually think games like these became the masterpieces they are because of their focus, because they told what they wanted to tell and didn’t distract the gamer with unnecessary stuff, keep the momentum going. In the case of AstroBot I guess it’s the fun itself and feeling it delivers, wrapping it up before it gets old.
A longer movie doesn’t make it automatically better also.
I’m a big fan of Christopher Nolan for example, but Oppenheimer for me was too long, the whole hearing at the end was just too long imo and this afterwards also downgraded the parts that came before for me.
And while we are in a forum where it’s mostly about cars, a car (in most cases) doesn’t have fans and gets celebrated because of how long their engine lasts, how many miles it can get on its odometer.
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Quality over quantity! More cars or tracks are NOT going to make a game much better if at all. Especially when the cars are merely tiny fractions different because it's a 2023 GT3 car versus a 2019. smh.

Features that you use every single time you start the program, and before and after every single race, and how quickly you can get things adjusted so you can race more, that's the quality that matters. Seeing, while racing, incredible tread details through the rain spray as you feel every tiny itsy bit of grip in the FFB wheel and dance with the throttle and wheel as you position yourself inches from your opponent for the overtake, and still marvel at the curbing and track and axle shafts, that's the quality that matters, in game, while absorbed in the moment. While Playing.

Put someone in front of a screen and immedietely start the countdown 3... 2... 1.. GO! and after the second corner ask them is this 2160p/4K? or 8K? or 1440p. THEY WILL NOT KNOW. Ask them if it is 30fps, 60fps, or 120fps. They WILL ABSOLUTELY KNOW!

And I will say the most enjoyable and surprising unexpected long remembered joys are the ones you would never have conceived. Racing a Old 1932 Ford Roadster, I truly had a pit in my stomach thinking irrationally and without basis it would be dull, lame, a waste of my precious fun time, but... It was FUN AF. By the end of it I was like they should include this in the daily races. Polyphony is mostly paying attention to what matters and delivering it more than most realize, likely because of ignorance and unwillingness to try. It's always good to be reminded of our foolishness and learn and grow past it.

The one's that are off the beaten path are the precious surprises. I love Music rally, I wish they would add more. They really are FUN. The Missions are a breath of fresh air. Game Types matter. I can't create a livery to save my life, but I would likely not have bought a PS5 this year and a PS5 Pro yesterday had the helmet, suit, and livery easily shared masterpiece creation capability not been there.

QUALITY of life seems to get diminished by the naive and inexperienced who are indoctrinated to only be able to count and see increasing quantity as valuable or worthwhile. Some cases where quantity is the offshoot of quality by way of combination is not quantity in itself, but much much more. AKA There should be at a minimum 6 Daily races, not for the sake of MORE nonsense, but for a variety of quality.

Sometimes you just want to hoonigan around and not ruin your driver rating. Having silly cars with giant soccer balls and such are the variety and quality and passion that gear heads love. We love to create, we love to share, we love to try new things and be surprised. Driving a new track is marginally different than any other track, and once you are in the heat of the moment having fun, the track or the car you are in doesn't matter. The fairness of the race does, SIGNIFICANTLY. Proper penalties and banning bad behavior matter. a rotten apple spoiling it for the bunch is not worth allowing to to fester because it might not be perfect. Perfect is the enemy of quality and community. And it's not real. No two people can agree on what perfect is. It's a nonsensical ego trip. No matter how many cars or tracks, that issue effects nearly every race.

Spectating others having fun when you might be multitasking, thanks to US tax enslavement filing, matters. I can't focus the amount required for playing, but I can enjoy my friends play watching them while I worry that I missed carrying a decimal point and will go to prison.

Speaking of, CAN"T WAIT FOR THE TOKYO NATIONS CUP TOMORROW before the break of dawn. WOOT!

Here's to complaining and criticizing FOR things everyone benefits from, not accepting bad decisions and learning to enjoy and try things and use that to keep making things better.
 
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xDriver69x
More cars or tracks are NOT going to make a game much better if at all
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Different people value different things. They play the game for different reasons and they place value on the things that make their experience better. More cars and more tracks is, and has always been, the only thing I've consistently wanted since the first game, which makes me think this...
xDriver69x
the naive and inexperienced who are indoctrinated to only be able to count and see increasing quantity as valuable or worthwhile
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... is just ignorant, self important horse crap.
 
VinylRichie
When it comes to the campaign of GT7, I agree to some degree (but in that case I would call them designers not writers).
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Designers / writers. GT7 is the first GT title which combines game progression with storytelling, albeit a very shallow story.
VinylRichie
But GT7 isn’t comparable to these other games (and I personally took a lot longer to complete the campaign btw), there’s a lot more to factor in, which is really difficult in the case of GT7 imo, because it has such outstanding parts that no other racing game can compete with, but also lacks so much in other departments which I don’t understand why.
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Astro Bot, TLOU and GT are indeed in different genres, but all games having a main campaign can be compared in terms of pacing vs. game lenght. At the end of the day it’s merely a question about the degree to which a game succeeds in achieving a fulfilling experience throughout.
VinylRichie
About TLOU I don’t agree, I never felt that anything was rushed there, I always felt that these games (and Uncharted too, especially Uncharted 4) are almost perfect when it comes to pacing and good timing, it feels really natural the way the story unfolds, paired with the right amount of good engaging gameplay and freedom.
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I agree on everything you said regarding Uncharted 4. TLOU not so much. It has some very elaborate parts and others that feel cut short. Overall I like the game, but I don’t think it’s a masterpiece.
VinylRichie
Which Part do you mean, Part 1 or 2?
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TLOU? I’m talking about the 2013 game. I never played the PS5 version called Part I, and I don’t know whether it’s any different to the original.
 
If we're going to get in depth at all about story/career pacing of other games, could I please request people be mindful of spoilers?

I'm playing through the Uncharteds for the first time at the minute (didn't really play games in the PS3 gen, the Astro Bot level made me curious), and I'd prefer not to have this conversation spoil me on them if that's okay.
 
Nakano219
If we're going to get in depth at all about story/career pacing of other games, could I please request people be mindful of spoilers?

I'm playing through the Uncharteds for the first time at the minute (didn't really play games in the PS3 gen, the Astro Bot level made me curious), and I'd prefer not to have this conversation spoil me on them if that's okay.
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I was mindful about that from the get go. Otherwise I’d use spoiler tags.
 
Nielsen
Designers / writers. GT7 is the first GT title which combines game progression with storytelling, albeit a very shallow story.

Astro Bot, TLOU and GT are indeed in different genres, but all games having a main campaign can be compared in terms of pacing vs. game lenght. At the end of the day it’s merely a question about the degree to which a game succeeds in achieving a fulfilling experience throughout.

I agree on everything you said regarding Uncharted 4. TLOU not so much. It has some very elaborate parts and others that feel cut short. Overall I like the game, but I don’t think it’s a masterpiece.

TLOU? I’m talking about the 2013 game. I never played the PS5 version called Part I, and I don’t know whether it’s any different to the original.
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I thought tlou1 was spot on, lengthwise.

Tlou2 was far too long imo. Felt like I was dragging myself through the last 10 hours or so, willing it to end (nothing to do with characters involved either).
 
FF7 rebirth is a great example of more not being good, had they cut out 75% of the mandatory mini-game crap, we could have had a proper final chapter with engrossing story to match the original game's first disc ending.
 
There is an Easter Egg in Astro Bot related to Gran Turismo... ;)
 
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Nielsen
Designers / writers. GT7 is the first GT title which combines game progression with storytelling, albeit a very shallow story.

Astro Bot, TLOU and GT are indeed in different genres, but all games having a main campaign can be compared in terms of pacing vs. game lenght. At the end of the day it’s merely a question about the degree to which a game succeeds in achieving a fulfilling experience throughout.

I agree on everything you said regarding Uncharted 4. TLOU not so much. It has some very elaborate parts and others that feel cut short. Overall I like the game, but I don’t think it’s a masterpiece.

TLOU? I’m talking about the 2013 game. I never played the PS5 version called Part I, and I don’t know whether it’s any different to the original.
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Ah ok, I just wasn’t sure which of the the two you meant. Nah the Part I PS5 version doesn’t have new story elements to it.
Ok than we have different opinions on it, for me it is an absolute masterpiece, nothing less. Sure you could analyse it and say maybe change this part or that and make it a bit better, but that’s not how it works for me, it’s still an piece of art, and when it blows me away and is this pure thing the artist (or artists in this case) intended to deliver to other people and succeeded with this, I have no reason to analyse it, at some point of (nearly) perfection I don’t feel a need to it. But of course that’s just how I feel about this game, there’s probably other games I don’t feel like this about but others do.

As for GT7, I can’t agree too. I mean yes there is a campaign (even when it has no real story to it), but it was clearly not intended to be the main core of the game by the developers, more like a introduction to the overall game I would say (even when pre-release it sounded different). The fulfilling experience is thought to be the combination of all the different parts of the game like Sport mode, livery editor, custom races, bettering lap times, tuning, scapes, museum and info’s about the cars, new content and at the end collecting cars. If the developers were successful with this stands on a different piece of paper (in my case I would say partly).
 
Ande3200
As much as i would love more cars for gt7, i still rather have quality over quantity all day long.
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What are you getting at? PD has no recent history sacrificing quality for the sake of quantity. GT6 days are no more.
 
Don't racing games have more in common with rogue-likes, for example?

They're both genres designed to be played repeatedly, and meta progress is kinda optional but helpful in establishing a sense of... well... progress.

The boon for GT7 players, and through the franchise in general, is that you're given much more of a sandbox in which to play as you wish. In fact, the "campaign" of GT7 actually works against the sandbox ethos and it's not until you've completed the hand holding portion of the game that we're allowed to go and do our own thing.

To me, comparing Gran Turismo with any of the other games in this discussion is apples and oranges.
 
Theufcveteran
Maybe they mean in terms of what cars are added. It's personal preference imo. One person's trash is another person's treasure.
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That makes no sense. Quality over quantity means more effort. Personal preference has nothing to do with effort.
 
Nielsen
That makes no sense. Quality over quantity means more effort. Personal preference has nothing to do with effort.
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I think they mean car selection. In the OP's eyes perhaps, they would rather that PD add cars they feel are quality cars to them, selection wise, rather than lots that maybe are not interesting to a large section of the player base (the percentage would possibly vary a lot per car).

That's the only way I can see it anyhow. Or maybe like, they'd like requested community choices vs. multiple trim levels/models of an iteration of GT-R, for example.

But of course, there are people who'd like a full GT-R line including trims or special one-off models. That's where the personal preference comes in.
 
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Theufcveteran
I think they mean car selection. In the OP's eyes perhaps, they would rather that PD add cars they feel are quality cars to them, selection wise, rather than lots that maybe are not interesting to a large section of the player base (the percentage would possibly vary a lot per car).

That's the only way I can see it anyhow. Or maybe like, they'd like requested community choices vs. multiple trim levels/models of an iteration of GT-R, for example.

But of course, there are people who'd like a full GT-R line including trims or special one-off models.
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I think we all want cars that fit our personal preferences. That’s self-explanatory. However, the phrase quality over quantity was used and it literally means to prioritize effort.
Theufcveteran
That's where the personal preference comes in.
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Again, it doesn’t make sense in the context of quality over quantity.

I think we should stop this. You didn’t make the original comment and you guessing what was meant doesn’t really clarify anything (for the reason I’ve already stated). People should answer for themselves when called out on random comments lacking context.
 
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Nielsen
I think we all want cars that fit our personal preferences. That’s self-explanatory. However, the phrase quality over quantity was used and it literally means to prioritize effort.

Again, it doesn’t make sense in the context of quality over quantity.

I think we should stop this. You didn’t make the original comment and you guessing what was meant doesn’t really clarify anything (for the reason I’ve already stated). People should answer for themselves when called out on random comments lacking context.
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You’re not wrong, though I’ll just end on - quality for some might be tied to/represent personal preference/cars that are highly requested. I can see where the OP is coming from looking through a certain lens. But you can also make the argument you’re making. So, yeah, if OP clarifies then we’ll understand more what they mean.
 
Quantity does help games, especially with replayability.

GT3 and GT7 are polar opposites in this regard. GT3 has great event freedom quality since you can do all of a series in any order, but the car freedom quantity hurts it on replays since there are so many events on the main path in that game that only have one or two eligible cars (there's 10 Yaris races you have to do with only 2 Yarises in the game, for example, so those events will feel the same every time). GT7 by contrast has great car freedom quality, almost too much - with the sole exception of the truck races, every race on the main path has at least nine cars you can pick from. But it's hurt by event freedom quality, in that it has none, since the café is strictly linear.

That's why GT4's career is held up as the pinnacle, because it has both - there's tangible progression but not a strict linear event path, while having enough car choice that replay value doesn't suffer.
 
Nakano219
Quantity does help games, especially with replayability.

GT3 and GT7 are polar opposites in this regard. GT3 has great event freedom quality since you can do all of a series in any order, but the car freedom quantity hurts it on replays since there are so many events on the main path in that game that only have one or two eligible cars (there's 10 Yaris races you have to do with only 2 Yarises in the game, for example, so those events will feel the same every time). GT7 by contrast has great car freedom quality, almost too much - with the sole exception of the truck races, every race on the main path has at least nine cars you can pick from. But it's hurt by event freedom quality, in that it has none, since the café is strictly linear.

That's why GT4's career is held up as the pinnacle, because it has both - there's tangible progression but not a strict linear event path, while having enough car choice that replay value doesn't suffer.
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Yep, exactly this. I've always maintained that the best racing game careers are open-ended, letting you do a lot of things in different orders depending on how you play the game, while also making sure there are plenty of options available to you at once.

GT used to be the absolute champion of this type of career, but I feel the spark has been missing ever since GT6.
 
Theufcveteran
I think they mean car selection. In the OP's eyes perhaps, they would rather that PD add cars they feel are quality cars to them, selection wise, rather than lots that maybe are not interesting to a large section of the player base (the percentage would possibly vary a lot per car).

That's the only way I can see it anyhow. Or maybe like, they'd like requested community choices vs. multiple trim levels/models of an iteration of GT-R, for example.

But of course, there are people who'd like a full GT-R line including trims or special one-off models. That's where the personal preference comes in.
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Hah, that example of the GT-R‘s couldn’t have a better timing, as it seems we are getting another one in next weeks update😀
 
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