Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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Kurlee66
Maybe we’ve all become too obsessed with perfection. Perfect car, perfect track, perfect sound, perfect setup etc. monthly updates to perfect the game. I just fired up the PS2 with GT4 and had so much fun just driving around. The fact that it was released “complete” with no updates or further expectations is now refreshing. I just drove my Jensen Interceptor around El Capitan. Did it look perfect, no. Did it drive perfect, no. Did it sound perfect, no but it was glorious. I think PD needs to focus less on perfection and more on making the game fun. More tracks, events and cars. The cars don’t have to be so detailed that it takes so long to make them available same with tracks. I know not everyone feels this way but I just thought I’d put that out there. 😁
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I kind of agree for tracks, but personally, for cars, I know it takes a long time but I'm happy to wait. The models are ****ing ridiculous. PD have outdone everyone bar Evolution Studios and Autovista models in FM4 from the beginning, and they took another leap with GT Sport and GT7.

I think for the city tracks, it would be a good idea to pair back the obsession with accuracy to get something "close enough" that results in a new track.

For traditional circuits, I'm not sure. On one hand I would like more tracks, on the other, they do look really good. I wouldn't complain if there was maybe 3-4 tracks per year with a reduced fidelity (maybe they could update the fidelity down the line, say they release the track like 70% visually done). But I love graphics (I don't mind less accuracy though if it makes things faster to develop), but on the other hand, when you're racing, you don't see it as much.

I think for cars I'd like it to stay as is, for tracks, maybe I wouldn't personally mind if they were not as high fidelity but we got more of them.
 
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Theufcveteran
I kind of agree for tracks, but personally, for cars, I know it takes a long time but I'm happy to wait. The models are ****ing ridiculous. PD have outdone everyone bar Evolution Studios and Autovista models in FM4 from the beginning, and they took another leap with GT Sport and GT7.

I think for the city tracks, it would be a good idea to pair back the obsession with accuracy to get something "close enough" that results in a new track.

For traditional circuits, I'm not sure. On one hand I would like more tracks, on the other, they do look really good. I wouldn't complain if there was maybe 3-4 tracks per year with a reduced fidelity (maybe they could update the fidelity down the line, say they release the track like 70% visually done). But I love graphics (I don't mind less accuracy though if it makes things faster to develop), but on the other hand, when you're racing, you don't see it as much.

I think for cars I'd like it to stay as is, for tracks, maybe I wouldn't personally mind if they were not as high fidelity but we got more of them.
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I've resigned myself to never getting any more city tracks.

I don't even think, on these at least, it's necessarily a PD problem - I don't think the game industry at large has an answer for "how do we render 1080p (never mind 4K!) urban environments without taking forever and costing all of our budget".
 
Kurlee66
Maybe we’ve all become too obsessed with perfection. Perfect car, perfect track, perfect sound, perfect setup etc. monthly updates to perfect the game. I just fired up the PS2 with GT4 and had so much fun just driving around. The fact that it was released “complete” with no updates or further expectations is now refreshing. I just drove my Jensen Interceptor around El Capitan. Did it look perfect, no. Did it drive perfect, no. Did it sound perfect, no but it was glorious. I think PD needs to focus less on perfection and more on making the game fun. More tracks, events and cars. The cars don’t have to be so detailed that it takes so long to make them available same with tracks. I know not everyone feels this way but I just thought I’d put that out there. 😁
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I agree with that obsession with perfection thing, i discovered it on myself too, but i still wouldn’t want them to reduce the quality of their output, these models are future proof as far as i understand, so this would be an investment that pays off also in the future. And another thing is that I’m not convinced that they can’t make the game more fun because they put too much resources into modeling, creating events, championships or missions can’t be that time consuming.
But i really do like your philosophy👍
 
Kurlee66
Maybe we’ve all become too obsessed with perfection. Perfect car, perfect track, perfect sound, perfect setup etc. monthly updates to perfect the game. I just fired up the PS2 with GT4 and had so much fun just driving around. The fact that it was released “complete” with no updates or further expectations is now refreshing. I just drove my Jensen Interceptor around El Capitan. Did it look perfect, no. Did it drive perfect, no. Did it sound perfect, no but it was glorious. I think PD needs to focus less on perfection and more on making the game fun. More tracks, events and cars. The cars don’t have to be so detailed that it takes so long to make them available same with tracks. I know not everyone feels this way but I just thought I’d put that out there. 😁
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GT4 was 'perfect' for its time, as much as the technology of its time allowed them. It did push the PS2 to its limits. It'd always be PD thing to perfect things, at least for something like graphics, as they're consistently the frontrunners between the other games in that category.

It's just that the technology takes significantly longer time for them, or any game developers, to produce things. I hope that later technology will allow game developers to produce as much quality stuff (tracks, cars, etc.) in significantly faster time, as I think something like graphic details have reached the peak in gaming now.
 
o000o
I hope that later technology will allow game developers to produce as much quality stuff (tracks, cars, etc.) in significantly faster time, as I think something like graphic details have reached the peak in gaming now.
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New technology reminds me of when Kaz said this during Giorgetto Giugiaro's visit to the Polyphony offices:

IMG_8345.jpeg


Hopefully this could be used to speed up the production of content, and perhaps make things like City Circuits viable again.
 
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Are PD being perfectionists with tracks though?

With the car models, you can see the massive amount of detail clearly, especially in VR, and go "ah, this is where the time went, I get it". But I don't look at, say, PD's Road Atlanta or Watkins Glen scans and think it's clearly better quality than anyone else's. I'm not saying they are bad or anything, to be clear, just that they aren't the industry leaders in detail there in the same way they are for car modelling.
 
Nakano219
Are PD being perfectionists with tracks though?

With the car models, you can see the massive amount of detail clearly, especially in VR, and go "ah, this is where the time went, I get it". But I don't look at, say, PD's Road Atlanta or Watkins Glen scans and think it's clearly better quality than anyone else's. I'm not saying they are bad or anything, to be clear, just that they aren't the industry leaders in detail there in the same way they are for car modelling.
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I'd say the limiting factor here is simply PS5's hardware. And the priority is on cars 'cause ppl will look more at car details than at track details.
 
To me, it feels PD are just putting more effort into certain tracks than others.

Everyone, but me, hates Sainte-Croix. Compared to Grand Valley, even though St.Croix is older, look at how much environmental activity are happening at both circuits. Same applies to Trial Mountain compared to Bathurst.

UFOs, birds, drones, seals, Roos, planes, helicopters, avatars walking on trails and to and from grandstands. Utilising fog, high clouds, rain. They seem more focused on ambience than outright perfect detail.
 
PSN offapple
New technology reminds me of when Kaz said this during Giorgetto Giugiaro's visit to the Polyphony offices:

View attachment 1461867

Hopefully this could be used to speed up the production of content, and perhaps make things like City Circuits viable again.
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It already is being used, someone a while ago posted an industry talk where a PD employee discussed these auto-generation methods. Someone with better memory than me can surely unearth it.

However they showcased rather small, mundane modeling tasks being automated - not generation of 3d models from scratch you might hope for, but stuff like "smoothly connect this access road to our scanned track surface" or "fit this generic front splitter to that car".

Who knows what else they have up their sleeves, ofc, but don't get overly excited from that Kaz line.
 
I guess I’m just burned out with updates, tweaking physics, predictions and disappointments. Would love to have a “complete” game released and just deal the results. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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05XR8
To me, it feels PD are just putting more effort into certain tracks than others.

Everyone, but me, hates Sainte-Croix. Compared to Grand Valley, even though St.Croix is older, look at how much environmental activity are happening at both circuits. Same applies to Trial Mountain compared to Bathurst.
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I‘ve always liked St. Croix too for the same reason. I know it‘s a fictional track but looks very convincing and close to real life.
 
PSN offapple
New technology reminds me of when Kaz said this during Giorgetto Giugiaro's visit to the Polyphony offices:

View attachment 1461867

Hopefully this could be used to speed up the production of content, and perhaps make things like City Circuits viable again.
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Six years ago, Polyphony already presented technical presentations on how they were using procedural generation.

www.gtplanet.net

Polyphony Digital Presents Procedural Landscape Generation Techniques at CEDEC Event

The Polyphony Digital team has again been presenting some of its technical expertise at the CEDEC event in Yokohama. CEDEC, the Computer Entertainment Developers Conference is an annual conference for the computer entertainment industry. Taking place at the Pacifico Yokohama, an exhibition center in
www.gtplanet.net www.gtplanet.net

Along with advances in generative AI (although this is anathema to many artists) and photogrammetry, these tools should facilitate the creation of graphic elements in a more reasonable time than that required by "manual" modeling with the level of detail we are accustomed to in this generation.
 
Draggon
It's one of my favorite tracks :)
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The C layout is a good track to race on for Gr.1s IMO. Probably because of the environment around it as the original message states. It feels more interesting to drive it in dusk, compared to doing the same thing in Le Mans.
 
Hdbd04
The C layout is a good track to race on for Gr.1s IMO. Probably because of the environment around it as the original message states. It feels more interesting to drive it in dusk, compared to doing the same thing in Le Mans.
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I feel like Sainte-Croix was perhaps originally a backup plan in the event of not being able to acquire the license for Circuit de la Sarthe.
I think it might be my favourite of the custom circuits.
 
Freeman_Cruz
Six years ago, Polyphony already presented technical presentations on how they were using procedural generation.

www.gtplanet.net

Polyphony Digital Presents Procedural Landscape Generation Techniques at CEDEC Event

The Polyphony Digital team has again been presenting some of its technical expertise at the CEDEC event in Yokohama. CEDEC, the Computer Entertainment Developers Conference is an annual conference for the computer entertainment industry. Taking place at the Pacifico Yokohama, an exhibition center in
www.gtplanet.net www.gtplanet.net

Along with advances in generative AI (although this is anathema to many artists) and photogrammetry, these tools should facilitate the creation of graphic elements in a more reasonable time than that required by "manual" modeling with the level of detail we are accustomed to in this generation.
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I think if you train your own model on your own data with consent from the artists/employees, the ethics are "cleaner", so to speak, imo. As long as it's used in a supplementary way to allow for things not previously possible/feasible, and not just replacing employees outright.

If everyone in PD was happy with making their own internal AI model and it was able to create cities with high detail and high logic/sense layouts, then I think it could lead to city tracks coming back like with the procedural generation in the link you shared, and without using artists' work without consent.
 
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With Microsoft's shift towards third-party strategy, some expected Forza Motorsport to end up launching on Playstation and that Gran Turismo would have an equal competitor on the same platform, but it seems that significant layoffs have been confirmed at Turn10, which lead it to become a subsidiary studio of Playground, creating technology for Forza Horizon but making it very difficult for a new Forza Motorsport to come out.

 
I know it has been said many times, but the moment you start "playing" GT7 on PSVR2 is when everything that PD does makes total sense.
Both the perfection and the mistakes... But all just clicks.

I don't care how many cars they add if ppl are going to "drive" then on cheat cam ... I love every single car added because I'm behind the wheel. And that's all. Just the love for cars.
 
Astro_BS-AS
I know it has been said many times, but the moment you start "playing" GT7 on PSVR2 is when everything that PD does makes total sense.
Both the perfection and the mistakes... But all just clicks.

I don't care how many cars they add if ppl are going to "drive" then on cheat cam ... I love every single car added because I'm behind the wheel. And that's all. Just the love for cars.
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VR users are crazy man. I know it's a cool gimmick but the mistakes "click"? The mistakes that can bring the game down from a 10/10 to a 4/10 in some cases?
VR doesn't make the fact that almost every race you start 45 seconds behind 1st "make sense" - it would actually be even cooler to have a proper close race in VR than it is to do the same procession with a new camera angle.
 
Freeman_Cruz
With Microsoft's shift towards third-party strategy, some expected Forza Motorsport to end up launching on Playstation and that Gran Turismo would have an equal competitor on the same platform, but it seems that significant layoffs have been confirmed at Turn10, which lead it to become a subsidiary studio of Playground, creating technology for Forza Horizon but making it very difficult for a new Forza Motorsport to come out.

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50%?! Damn thats harsh..

This is where Asian companies are better at adapting the size of their payroll to their objectives. Some players would like Polyphony Digital to massively recruit so they can scan more cars and sell DLCs, but if it doesn't work they would have to make layoffs. This they don't want.
 
Astro_BS-AS
I know it has been said many times, but the moment you start "playing" GT7 on PSVR2 is when everything that PD does makes total sense.
Both the perfection and the mistakes... But all just clicks.

I don't care how many cars they add if ppl are going to "drive" then on cheat cam ... I love every single car added because I'm behind the wheel. And that's all. Just the love for cars.
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I'm sensing some "New to PSVR2" vibes. When it's a new thing, you're right. It pushes some of the games issues out of your mind... for a time. Once you've had it for a while (2 years, for me) the problems become obvious again, as the initial "wow" factor wears off a bit.
 
suomi1
50%?! Damn thats harsh..

This is where Asian companies are better at adapting the size of their payroll to their objectives. Some players would like Polyphony Digital to massively recruit so they can scan more cars and sell DLCs, but if it doesn't work they would have to make layoffs. This they don't want.
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Plus Japan, like most of the civilized world, has actual employment laws. Layoffs of this scale would be very hard to do there.
 
Famine
That's certainly also a factor, but in regards to making a front-engined, front-wheel drive car drive like a mid-engined, all-wheel drive car by only converting the drivetrain to all-wheel drive it's just garnish on an already problematic approach (especially as GT doesn't appear to directly model such things beyond what appears to be a single "flex" component).

You'd probably be better off getting the 205 T16 Evo 2 Rally Car, painting it all-grey or all-white (with a red pinstripe), and winding the power down to half with maximum ballast. It'd still have the ludicrous aero of course, but physically it's a lot closer to the T16 than an AWD, front-engined 205 GTI.
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Unless GT7 has a systemic universal model of car behavior relevant to the real world [classical mechanics etc}, the oversteer - understeer aspects are coded according to proxies & parameters so that it's at least conditionally above 51% correspondence to the real world, but your first answer regarding the Peugeot T16 seems to me most related to the real world and not GT7. Which means we don't know if PD just changed the Peugeot from front wheel drive to AWD, would the car be as balanced as an mid-engine car with 4WD or still almost as understeered as FF cars, especially in the beginning of corners.
 
equalitus
Unless GT7 has a systemic universal model of car behavior relevant to the real world [classical mechanics etc}, the oversteer - understeer aspects are coded according to proxies & parameters so that it's at least conditionally above 51% correspondence to the real world
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200.gif


equalitus
but your first answer regarding the Peugeot T16 seems to me most related to the real world and not GT7. Which means we don't know if PD just changed the Peugeot from front wheel drive to AWD, would the car be as balanced as an mid-engine car with 4WD or still almost as understeered as FF cars, especially in the beginning of corners.
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Heaviest component(s) ahead of driver vs. behind driver. It's not that tough.
 
I believe the Forza series has (or at least had) drivetrain swaps, as well as engine swaps similar to what we now have in Gran Turismo. The engine swap feature in Forza may have even directly inspired GT to add it.

However I don't recall Forza ever allowing the position of the engine to be adjusted (e.g. going from FR to MR or RR). The only change you could do was which wheels the engine would send power to (e.g. going from FF to FR or F-4WD).

And a tangent point while I'm talking about Forza, in light of the recent layoffs, I hope that their now former Senior Sound Supervisor Mike Caviezel gets re-hired by Polyphony Digital.
Before he was hired originally by PD, we were still dealing with cars sounding like vacuum cleaners. Even models that were brand new in GT6, like the BMW Z4 GT3.
 
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Sir Crashalot
I'd say the limiting factor here is simply PS5's hardware. And the priority is on cars 'cause ppl will look more at car details than at track details.
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Or rather PS4 hardware. If they developed and used a micropolygon virtual geometry system like Nanite in UE5 you could have a lot more detail in the tracks and reduce pop-in dramatically. Right now they have to make everything with PS4 limitations in mind with a few bells and whistles added on PS5 but nothing drastic.
 

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