Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Johnnn]

Sorry, but what the hell are you talking about?

It looks like most sensitive game on a controller. It almost even beats broken ACC port but ACC is fixed already. Breaking starts too early which is nice but I have a problem with it a bit. Maybe it's because I don't use useless adaptive triggers? There is no reason to use adaptive triggers for racing games, I would need Xbox triggers.

 

[xMAXIx79]

It looks like most sensitive game on a controller. It almost even beats broken ACC port but ACC is fixed already. Breaking starts too early which is nice but I have a problem with it a bit. Maybe it's because I don't use useless adaptive triggers? There is no reason to use adaptive triggers for racing games, I would need Xbox triggers.

This is due to the game mechanics and partly to the car, many vehicles are quite "sensitive" on the rear axle if they only have the power there. That requires a lot of feeling and gentle acceleration. Alternatively, a slightly higher TCS...don't be fooled, a higher TCS is a little slower than no TCS, but faster, as if the car were skidding all the time and even more so when going off the lane or spinning.

 

[GTalaune]

My problem is I play most sims without any vibrations and on a gamepad. So I read clues with my eyes and ears. It's enough for many games. Here I am completely lost. The strange camera must be it too. What kind of camera is that? It's crazy, after a month I am not sure what it does.

Agreed, there is 0 feel with the current cameras, unless you played bumper all your life

 

[Lord Protector]

Seems like PD keeps making unannounced background changes to the physic model with steady improvements. Seems like they improved the slip angle the last two days. Cornering feels even more progressive and with proper throttle input while cornering, you can get the tire on edge and a bit more slippery which can help you corner faster. At least they are addressing all the issues, but I don't know why they are not announcing them and doing them in secret. Looks to be a good case that they will eventually nail the majority of the aspects over time.

No they don’t… it’s in your head

 

[Johnnn]

This is due to the game mechanics and partly to the car, many vehicles are quite "sensitive" on the rear axle if they only have the power there. That requires a lot of feeling and gentle acceleration. Alternatively, a slightly higher TCS...don't be fooled, a higher TCS is a little slower than no TCS, but faster, as if the car were skidding all the time and even more so when going off the lane or spinning.

It's about input. It starts too early and is too sensitive. In other games you can tune that. Xbox has vibration triggers so you can know if something is wrong. DS has rather useless triggers and that was probably the reason for very easy input for GTS.

Agreed, there is 0 feel with the current cameras, unless you played bumper all your life

Cockpit moves a lot but I still don't know what it means. My eyes are not used to that clues. Camera could be a big problem to me.

 

[xMAXIx79]

It's about input. It starts too early and is too sensitive. In other games you can tune that. Xbox has vibration triggers so you can know if something is wrong. DS has rather useless triggers and that was probably the reason for very easy input for GTS.

Cockpit moves a lot but I still don't know what it means. My eyes are not used to that clues. Camera could be a big problem to me.

However, the entries in GTS were a disaster. The gas didn't react at all at first, then slightly and shortly before reaching 100% the post went off.
If you released the gas pedal a bit, it immediately dropped to just 20%. If we had this rule in GT7, it would be almost impossible to move a RWD car properly.

So it's not the game that needs changing here... sorry, but YOU need to change how you operate the pad. ... No offense meant, but the problem is you... or your fingers.

 

[Johnnn]

However, the entries in GTS were a disaster. The gas didn't react at all at first, then slightly and shortly before reaching 100% the post went off.
If you released the gas pedal a bit, it immediately dropped to just 20%. If we had this rule in GT7, it would be almost impossible to move a RWD car properly.

So it's not the game that needs changing here... sorry, but YOU need to change how you operate the pad. ... No offense meant, but the problem is you... or your fingers.

They should design proper pad. Deadzone would help too. Any game has deadzone settings. My fingers are OK if I play anything on Xbox gamepad without any problem.

 

[Firestone]

Has it occured to you that you might be learning and adapting? That's far more likely than any conspiracy theory about "hidden changes". There's zero proof of hidden changes being implemented. And as @AlexWilmot says, anyone with education should understand that controversial statements need to be proven, not disproven. Conspiracy theories are controversial.

I haven't felt any changes, and I've been fine from the start. But that's just another anecdote.

Anyway, I'm glad that you're doing better and enjoying the game more!

They fixed the oversteer issue unannounced. Plenty of people in this thread felt the change a few weeks ago. They 100% changed the slip angle and sustained slide. Maybe could have been in the last update, but they are making changes. I spend hours doing hot laps with the same car at the same track. I notice difference in steering resistance.
One test I did a few weeks ago was trying to maintain a slide with a BRZ. I performed the test last night at the feedback and car response was completely different and easier to slide. Maybe I missed that in the latest update. My main point is they a making changes and it’s a fact they have made changes previously under the radar.

 

[Firestone]

No they don’t… it’s in your head

As I mentioned before, the oversteer change was completely unannounced and overnight with no version update. Many people confirmed that that issue was fixed at the time. Do you remember PD sending out an update then? Since the game is always online, they have complete control of the code. Biggest indicator of this is how they can control daily races. Things like that require modifications to game code and no update is required for such thing as they can push real-time change.

 

[Johnnn]

As I mentioned before, the oversteer change was completely unannounced and overnight with no version update. Many people confirmed that that issue was fixed at the time. Do you remember PD sending out an update then? Since the game is always online, they have complete control of the code. Biggest indicator of this is how they can control daily races. Things like that require modifications to game code and no update is required for such thing as they can push real-time change.

That's a bit wild. I don't think anybody changes games without updates.

 

[br1x]

As I mentioned before, the oversteer change was completely unannounced and overnight with no version update. Many people confirmed that that issue was fixed at the time. Do you remember PD sending out an update then? Since the game is always online, they have complete control of the code. Biggest indicator of this is how they can control daily races. Things like that require modifications to game code and no update is required for such thing as they can push real-time change.

I think you are a bit confused about what "always online" means.
It doesn't mean the game you play exists in a cloud that they can freely update (that is something Ubisoft is working on right now for example), it just means you have to connect to the servers to play almost all parts of the game.
There is a reason the servers go down during updates.

 

[xMAXIx79]

They should design proper pad. Deadzone would help too. Any game has deadzone settings. My fingers are OK if I play anything on Xbox gamepad without any problem.

If you think so, i cant say anything against.

 

[Carl Sagan]

awd cars act like rwd and rwd cars just spin out on GT7

 

[Firestone]

I think you are a bit confused about what "always online" means.
It doesn't mean the game you play exists in a cloud that they can freely update (that is something Ubisoft is working on right now for example), it just means you have to connect to the servers to play almost all parts of the game.
There is a reason the servers go down during updates.

What I meant was the core of the gameplay is. Remember that time during the updates that people lost access to basically 90% of the game. The functions of the game seems to be reliant on being connected to the network. Going back to daily races and changes week to week, what the game displays and the menu options are code. They are able to change this game code without pushing an update. What is preventing them from implementing the same concept with core game code? The next load up can push updates they held in queue. A lot of things can be structured a certain way.

That's a bit wild. I don't think anybody changes games without updates.

Nothing preventing them though. Lol
I think they structured the game to be able do things like this.

 

[Scaff]

What I meant was the core of the gameplay is. Remember that time during the updates that people lost access to basically 90% of the game. The functions of the game seems to be reliant on being connected to the network. Going back to daily races and changes week to week, what the game displays and the menu options are code. They are able to change this game code without pushing an update. What is preventing them from implementing the same concept with core game code? The next load up can push updates they held in queue. A lot of things can be structured a certain way.


Nothing preventing them though. Lol
I think they structured the game to be able do things like this.

These are fundamentally different aspects you are talking about here.

The code that determines driving, physics, etc is local to your console, it's not web or cloud based at all, to update it requires an update package to be downloaded and installed. which is why even when the server outage occurred, limited arcade races could be run, using the console based code.

The daily races you see are closer to a web-page, in that you are viewing data that is held server side. It's not code that is stored on your console at all, which is why now that the servers are down for GT5 and 6 you can no longer open and access that kind of data on those titles. No local code is being updated on your PlayStation at all in regard to changes for daily races.

 

[JDMKING13]

What I meant was the core of the gameplay is. Remember that time during the updates that people lost access to basically 90% of the game. The functions of the game seems to be reliant on being connected to the network. Going back to daily races and changes week to week, what the game displays and the menu options are code. They are able to change this game code without pushing an update. What is preventing them from implementing the same concept with core game code? The next load up can push updates they held in queue. A lot of things can be structured a certain way.


Nothing preventing them though. Lol
I think they structured the game to be able do things like this.

I think that after the last update the physics got better for me and there is a difference. I had the same feeling as you did with the cars really feeling good to me. And to keep it honest I was thinking the same thing. 😂 I feel as we are just getting use to the physics though.

Just got test driving my Gr.4 Supra and the driving sensation you get from different cars are so cool to me in GT7.. how much more I can feel the track, the bumps, the suspension vs the Ferrari’s I’ve been driving all week is great. Cockpit view really makes you appreciate the driving in this game more than any other view in my option. The wobble 2 cam has even got better though I wish we had option to make it more aggressive.. when you hit the turns and the way the camera moves really helps you with feeling the car and it’s limits.

 

[Firestone]

These are fundamentally different aspects you are talking about here.

The code that determines driving, physics, etc is local to your console, it's not web or cloud based at all, to update it requires an update package to be downloaded and installed. which is why even when the server outage occurred, limited arcade races could be run, using the console based code.

The daily races you see are closer to a web-page, in that you are viewing data that is held server side. It's not code that is stored on your console at all, which is why now that the servers are down for GT5 and 6 you can no longer open and access that kind of data on those titles. No local code is being updated on your PlayStation at all in regard to changes for daily races.

I’d argue that the UI is local to the console. When you select your car and what is being displayed on your menu items is game code. The game can fetch updates and implement them.
What’s preventing them from doing that with core game mechanics? Next time you load a track, it updates core mechanics. Background changes can be implemented. Also, tuning you car is just modifying the physics code parameters. I don’t see how this will need a large update to implement. Anything is possible with code.

 

[SkyHigh]

It looks like most sensitive game on a controller. It almost even beats broken ACC port but ACC is fixed already. Breaking starts too early which is nice but I have a problem with it a bit. Maybe it's because I don't use useless adaptive triggers? There is no reason to use adaptive triggers for racing games, I would need Xbox triggers.

my guy, I suggest you use them. For braking trigger set it to Strong, for the accelerator, set it to Weak. That way, you'll only feel resistance on the throttle when you're losing grip. GT7's triggers are 1:1, GTS were different.

 

[wheelhp]

I’d argue that the UI is local to the console. When you select your car and what is being displayed on your menu items is game code. The game can fetch updates and implement them.
What’s preventing them from doing that with core game mechanics? Next time you load a track, it updates core mechanics. Background changes can be implemented. Also, tuning you car is just modifying the physics code parameters. I don’t see how this will need a large update to implement. Anything is possible with code.

Your previous opinion where they made "physics changes" in previous updates (but nobody else noticed) is much more likely than PD being able to change your game without updating it. This new opinion you have is too far into tin foil hat territory, even for me.

 

[SkyHigh]

I think that after the last update the physics got better for me and there is a difference. I had the same feeling as you did with the cars really feeling good to me. And to keep it honest I was thinking the same thing. 😂 I feel as we are just getting use to the physics though.

Just got test driving my Gr.4 Supra and the driving sensation you get from different cars are so cool to me in GT7.. how much more I can feel the track, the bumps, the suspension vs the Ferrari’s I’ve been driving all week is great. Cockpit view really makes you appreciate the driving in this game more than any other view in my option. The wobble 2 cam has even got better though I wish we had option to make it more aggressive.. when you hit the turns and the way the camera moves really helps you with feeling the car and it’s limits.

I'm using Cockpit Offset and Wobble 2 : most dinamic cockpit view I''ve played with. It was a nice idea from pd

 

[Scaff]

I’d argue that the UI is local to the console. When you select your car and what is being displayed on your menu items is game code. The game can fetch updates and implement them.
What’s preventing them from doing that with core game mechanics? Next time you load a track, it updates core mechanics. Background changes can be implemented. Also, tuning you car is just modifying the physics code parameters. I don’t see how this will need a large update to implement. Anything is possible with code.

If that was the case we wouldn't have updates for the game at all, we do.

That's aside from the fact that this would be a utter nightmare from an implementation and management perspective (the packet loss risk alone would be absurd, as is the risk of running updates on a live, running application). You either store it locally and update remotely or you host the whole damn thing on the cloud.

Are you seriously suggesting that only the UI is local to the game? If that's the case I want to know what the circa 100GB on my PS5 is!

However, what I find most interesting is that two years ago you were arguing that GTS was almost spot on it how it did everything from FFFB to physics (and making the same argument that it was better than AC), so which is it, GTS or GT7?

 

[extreme car]

They fixed the slip angle of the car and sustained slides can now be held. The car doesn't snap around anymore. It feels more like AC now.

where is this video where you held a slide while on power? all of my favourite low power FR car is still snap oversteering on high speed corners.

 

[Johnnn]

my guy, I suggest you use them. For braking trigger set it to Strong, for the accelerator, set it to Weak. That way, you'll only feel resistance on the throttle when you're losing grip. GT7's triggers are 1:1, GTS were different.

I tried throttle and it's not bad but far from Xbox pad. Strong for anything is completely out my world, I don't need any force against my finger. I use linear pedals for all games and don't remember GTS too much, I didn't like the controls and physics there.

 

[Firestone]

If that was the case we wouldn't have updates for the game at all, we do.

That's aside from the fact that this would be a utter nightmare from an implementation and management perspective (the packet loss risk alone would be absurd, as is the risk of running updates on a live, running application). You either store it locally and update remotely or you host the whole damn thing on the cloud.

Are you seriously suggesting that only the UI is local to the game? If that's the case I want to know what the circa 100GB on my PS5 is!

However, what I find most interesting is that two years ago you were arguing that GTS was almost spot on it how it did everything from FFFB to physics (and making the same argument that it was better than AC), so which is it, GTS or GT7?

I’m not saying only the UI is local. I’m saying they are able to modify local code in the background. Have you looked at sport mode? The car selection depending on the week of races is definitely set up as a boolean. The menu still needs to be organized. They are more than likely changing values in the game code.
The game always requiring an internet connection to basically function, I don’t see how it can be a disaster rolling out update if a network connection is a requirement. Like I said, anything in code is possible. They can implement code that on track load up, modifications to the calculations can be implemented.

I still hold the argument that production cars in GTS drive better than AC.

 

[Scaff]

I’m not saying only the UI is local. I’m saying they are able to modify local code in the background. Have you looked at sport mode? The car selection depending on the week of races is definitely set up as a boolean. The menu still needs to be organized. They are more than likely changing values in the game code.
The game always requiring an internet connection to basically function, I don’t see how it can be a disaster rolling out update if a network connection is a requirement. Like I said, anything in code is possible. They can implement code that on track load up, modifications to the calculations can be implemented.

And every single piece of evidence we have goes against that, it doesn't really matter if you don't see how it could result in a disaster, that doesn't actually change the risks involved in what you are suggesting.

I still hold the argument that production cars in GTS drive better than AC.

Nice deflection, not the point I raised at all.

 

[GTR365]

Has it occured to you that you might be learning and adapting?

I really feel that this consideration for years vastly has been ignored concerning so many comparisons we make on this forum.

Our this vs that discussions lack validity because we have changed during the time between this vs that. I am a much better driver now than during the days of GT2. (I feel fortunate to have been driving for a decade & a half before GT originally was released; I didn't learn to drive using a video game)

Was Joe DiMaggio a better hitter than Derek Jeter? Could the '65 Packers beat the '78 Steelers? Was Grover Cleveland a better US President than Gerald Ford? Were GT4 vehicle physics better than those of GT7? (yeah, I'm from 🟥⬜🟦, could ya tell?) We can have opinions, but they are clouded by years of experiences in between. We lack the ability to compare & to contrast these things exhaustively in a sanitary vacuum.


But, hey, let's talk about it! 😃📣

 

[SkyHigh]

I tried throttle and it's not bad but far from Xbox pad. Strong for anything is completely out my world, I don't need any force against my finger. I use linear pedals for all games and don't remember GTS too much, I didn't like the controls and physics there.

I think they designed the braking trigger with the force, in my opinion, it can provide better braking and less sensitivity. The treshold is different for each car... Some are really high and others are lower. I don't think it hurts to try. Just remember to set the other to weak

 

[Johnnn]

I think they designed the braking trigger with the force, in my opinion, it can provide better braking and less sensitivity. The treshold is different for each car... Some are really high and others are lower. I don't think it hurts to try. Just remember to set the other to weak

I tried few times but I play many games and can't learn something with very high strength. Overall GT7 was just a test to me. Maybe I won't play the game at all. It's always better to play the game for some time and decide later. Currently is GT7 really off on many levels. But OK, I can try it again.

Oh, I remember what was the problem. When I set weak for gas, it was OK because it almost did nothing. But weak on brakes was like strong on throttle so maybe some bug and it's already fixed.

 

[xMAXIx79]

I tried few times but I play many games and can't learn something with very high strength. Overall GT7 was just a test to me. Maybe I won't play the game at all. It's always better to play the game for some time and decide later. Currently is GT7 really off on many levels. But OK, I can try it again.

Oh, I remember what was the problem. When I set weak for gas, it was OK because it almost did nothing. But weak on brakes was like strong on throttle so maybe some bug and it's already fixed.

Sooo many others who have played the GT7 on the PS5 with the DualSense have ALL said that the implementation for the pad in particular is excellent and absolutely unique.
Everyone I read/heard from or saw a review of it loved it.

So if you're dissatisfied, then that's a shame for you, of course, but I think you're one of the few then.

 

[Johnnn]

Sooo many others who have played the GT7 on the PS5 with the DualSense have ALL said that the implementation for the pad in particular is excellent and absolutely unique.
Everyone I read/heard from or saw a review of it loved it.

So if you're dissatisfied, then that's a shame for you, of course, but I think you're one of the few then.

They just don't understand it. They will eat everything Sony says.

X1 gamepad is still the best. Yes, it's old but you don't have anything better yet.