Gran Turismo 7 Physics

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Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


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The issue for so much oversteer may be a combimation of steering and throttle. I use the motion controller and, have the sensitivity set at -2. I had been thinking it was just the throttle, but after doing the first drift mission, I watched the replay and the steering seems super twitchy, even with the sensitivity at -2. Now I don't know, if this is an issue with those that are using wheels
 
FWD cars are static roughly 60 to 65% front weight bias, when you brake hard you can get up to 80% front weight bias.

That's enough to get the rear mobile if your in anything apart from a totally straight line.
So, I suppose Kaz wants us to tune all cars in the braking area so it gets corrected and the bias isn't that big :ill:
Or at least the vast majority of FWD cars, which, most of them, seem to have high rear bias and when you brake you lose the rear, quite weirdly.
 
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So, I suppose Kaz wants us to tune all cars in the braking area so it gets corrected and the bias isn't that big :ill:
Or at least the vast majority of FWD cars, which, most of them, seem to have high rear bias and when you brake you lose the rear, quite weirdly.
As @Scaff has explained, this is normal behavior. You can tune it out but it won't make you faster. Anyone who learned how to drive FF cars in GTS need to re-learn them now because they behave more realistically.
 
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I’m getting ready for an hour endurance race on GTS and I’m telling you guys you don’t want to go back to this…. Ughhh can’t wait to finish this race… GT7 is so much better than sport! I pray they don’t nerf the physics and give everyone a chance to adapt… GTS feels numb and basic compared to 7
 
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I’m getting ready for an hour endurance race on GTS and I’m telling you guys you don’t want to go back to this…. Ughhh can’t wait to finish this race… GT7 is so much better than sport! I pray they don’t nerf the physics and give everyone a chance to adapt… GTS feels numb and basic compared to 7
I don't even need to go back to GTS to agree with you. GT7 is a step forward and I hope they don't nuke everything because some of us are complaining about a handful of RWD road cars. Are there issues with some of these cars? Yes. Is it worth an overhaul that could make everything else worse? No.

IMO.
 
i notice something yestersay, while setting my suspension for drifting i was shock to notice that i couldn't a drift, found out that spring,dampers,toe,anti-roll is reverse, front=rear rear=front, soo if your car understeers normaly you would lower the front anti-roll but doing this results in more understeer and vice versa, i tested this theory with the GR supra race car and the 350z z33 for drift,
anyone as a idea?
 
Reading this thread I think it's a combination of the throttle response for pedal users being more linear on GT7 compared to GTS and that GTS was almost too easy without TCS.

I don't mind using TCS but it doesn't seem to stick?? Can you not set it per car like in GTS? I just don't like when it's turned on in cars that clearly don't have TCS (e.g the classic cars). But I'm more than happy to use it in races if it means I'm not ******** bricks each corner lol.
 
@RaceFace85 nice to hear from you again :)

I myself have an RX-8 and it’s not even debatable how broken the car is in GT7. For example, in real life, there’s no way I can power oversteer the car in 2nd gear under normal circumstances. In GT7? It’s easy to spin out even in 3rd gear no problem. My car - with regular Michelin Pilot Sport 4, which would should be ~Comford Soft - have much more grip then the car has in GT7 on Sport Soft tyres!! Which are like the best semi-slicks. This is insane and it’s driving me crazy.
 
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I don't mind using TCS but it doesn't seem to stick??
TCS is now a global setting which has to be adjusted each time you start a race. If you select TCS zero in the menu, it will always be zero when you start.
 
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I get the satisfaction of spinning out 10 times then nailing it for gold. But when it comes to doing actual races against real people this is where the lack of consistency and confidence is going to really suck the fun out of it.
On another note, seeing streams of the rallying I have a feeling there is something fundamentally wrong with the gravity in this game or something. The jumps are odd to say the least and if the physics are scaled across the whole game then the downforce issues start to make sense.
If the gravity system is global I can see it and I thought about it too! I don't do rally but cars do seem to unload a little too much in elevation changes so far.

Somethings definitely needs a bit of tweaking and it very well could be gravity related. It's more sensitive than ACC to me and that was a huge adjustment over GTS for me.
 
@RaceFace85 nice to hear from you again :)

I myself have an RX-8 and it’s not even debatable how broken the car is in GT7. For example, in real life, there’s no way I can’t power oversteer the car in 2nd gear under normal circumstances. In GT7? It’s easy to spin out even in 3rd gear no problem. My car - with regular Michelin Pilot Sport 4, which would should be ~Comford Soft - have much more grip then the car has in GT7 on Sport Soft tyres!! Which are like the best semi-slicks. This is insane and it’s driving me crazy.
Hey nice to meet you again. That's good to hear that I'm not alone with my opinion.
 
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@RaceFace85 nice to hear from you again :)

I myself have an RX-8 and it’s not even debatable how broken the car is in GT7. For example, in real life, there’s no way I can’t power oversteer the car in 2nd gear under normal circumstances. In GT7? It’s easy to spin out even in 3rd gear no problem. My car - with regular Michelin Pilot Sport 4, which would should be ~Comford Soft - have much more grip then the car has in GT7 on Sport Soft tyres!! Which are like the best semi-slicks. This is insane and it’s driving me crazy.
You drive with your traction control off and stability control off when driving?
 
Whilst i do enjoy the challenge of the new spring-like ffb and physics id like to chime in on reality vs gt7.

I had the opportunity to drive a nb miata 1.6 last summer, id say the games na 1.6 with SH tyres ought to make a fair comparison.

No way did it oversteer like that in reality, in the game it feels like you dont have a real connection on the limit. Maybe its something to get used to idk. I accept that high hp cars should be more prone to power oversteer but that little weak miata shouldnt behave as it does in the game...
 
I'm having similar issues with GT7s physics and thought I would put my $0.02 in. So I think a little background on my driving experience would be good to start with; I own a 2006 Mazda MX-5 that I have modified for AutoX (big tires, lowered suspension, etc...) I have been AutoXing for a few years in that car and know how it handles at and beyond the limit pretty well at this point. I play on a wheel and this game feels overly twitchy to me especially at and above the limit of grip in high HP RWD cars. Now, I havent been able to play the full game yet thanks to my internet connection so I've only been able to play the Music Rallys with the '66 Cobra, Honda S800 and 356 Carrera so I can't be too judgemental but the Cobra in particular feels like a complete mess to me. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like it's running on racing hard tires with extremely soft damping and no sway bars. It's extremely twitchy at the limit, you have to have LIGHTNING fast reflexes to catch and hold a slide and if you make the slightest mistake in counter steering you will either shoot the other way into a guard rail or spin out. This doesn't feel realistic to me at all and I feel that other games, particularly AC, do a much better job simulating limit-of-grip handling.

P.S. It would be interesting to know what tires the '66 Cobra is actually on in the Music Rally so I can get a better idea of the physics for other similar cars in the game before I'm finally able to play tomorrow. I will post again about the physics when I have a chance to play the full game if anyone cares.
 
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I'm finding myself very frustrated at times coming to grips (no pun intended) with the changes. GT is more or less the only racing game I've ever played, so that's the extent of my knowledge where sim physics are concerned.

Doing some of the missions or licenses I find the cars have basically no grip. I think just the second mission in the first block (magic mountain?) with the Porsche on high speed ring, you basically can't go higher than 110kph in the first and second corner or else you're skating on ice. It's ridiculous.

The front end on stock cars I find buckles under quite easily under braking. Trying to accelerate in long turns makes the car lock into its turn radius and I need to countersteer to break the momentum, and when I do there's a chance the car becomes unstable enough to cause a crash.

Etc. I don't know how realistic all this is since my real-world racing has been limited to karting, but it feels really off from prior titles where driving felt more planted.

To PD's credit though tuning makes a lot of these issues much better, and the "measure" feature in the tuning screen helps a ton to know what effect your tuning has on the car. I've always wanted to delve more into tuning and that alone helps a ton.

That said, many are saying the physics are more realistic overall so I don't know what to make of it.
 
I own a 2006 Mazda MX-5 that I have modified for AutoX (big tires, lowered suspension, etc...) I have been AutoXing for a few years in that car and know how it handles at and beyond the limit pretty well at this point. I play on a wheel and this game to me feels overly twitchy to me especially at and above the limit of grip in high HP RWD cars.

Would love to hear your thoughts on the mazda NA 1.6 thats in the game. Its probably as close as it gets to your NB. Might be that you will have the same experience as me; the game is exaggerated on the limit, and on the limit the car is gone. I tried for an hour to set it up with custom suspension with all kinds of combos but that very very twitchy behaviour on the limit is still there. Holding a slide under throttle is very hard if not impossible, even saving a slide can be very tricky. Feels like the threshold is extremely small.
 
I'm having similar issues with GT7s physics and thought I would put my $0.02 in. So I think a little background on my driving experience would be good to start with; I own a 2006 Mazda MX-5 that I have modified for AutoX (big tires, lowered suspension, etc...) I have been AutoXing for a few years in that car and know how it handles at and beyond the limit pretty well at this point. I play on a wheel and this game to me feels overly twitchy to me especially at and above the limit of grip in high HP RWD cars. Now, I havent been able to play the full game yet thanks to my internet connection so I've only been able to play the Music Rallys with the '66 Cobra, Honda S800 and 356 Carrera so I can't be too judgemental but the Cobra in particular feels like a complete mess to me. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like it's running on racing hard tires with extremely soft damping and no sway bars. It's extremely twitchy at the limit, you have to have LIGHTNING fast reflexes to catch and hold a slide and if you make the slightest mistake in counter steering you will either shoot the other way into a guard rail or spin out. This doesn't feel realistic to me at all and I feel that other games, particularly AC, do a much better job simulating limit-of-grip handling.

P.S. It would be interesting to know what tires the '66 Cobra is actually on in the Music Rally so I can get a better idea of the physics for other similar cars in the game before I'm finally able to play tomorrow. I will post again about the physics when I have a chance to play the full game if anyone cares.
I just think you might need some more time.. I’m actually doing it right now and while it’s a pain in the ass once you get the throttle limit its pretty easy to control… what’s tricky is it has soft suspense so you have to make sure you balance the chassis throughout the lap. Also make sure your not over steering… that was killing me early. I’m trying to gold this as we speak and I keep getting 5.23/25 ughhh lol! Good luck man!
 
I just think you might need some more time.. I’m actually doing it right now and while it’s a pain in the ass once you get the throttle limit its pretty easy to control… what’s tricky is it has soft suspense so you have to make sure you balance the chassis throughout the lap. Also make sure your not over steering… that was killing me early. I’m trying to gold this as we speak and I keep getting 5.23/25 ughhh lol! Good luck man!
Thanks for the tips but I already golded that rally. I can put up with these physics and get fairly decent times but putting up with them is about all I'm doing, I'm not really enjoying them. Who knows, maybe the Cobra is an exception and most of the other cars are fine.

Would love to hear your thoughts on the mazda NA 1.6 thats in the game. Its probably as close as it gets to your NB. Might be that you will have the same experience as me; the game is exaggerated on the limit, and on the limit the car is gone. I tried for an hour to set it up with custom suspension with all kinds of combos but that very very twitchy behaviour on the limit is still there. Holding a slide under throttle is very hard if not impossible, even saving a slide can be very tricky. Feels like the threshold is extremely small.
My '06 is actually the first year for the NC gen Miata, the closest car in the game to mine would probably be the RX-8 since it shares the same chassis with my car. I'll let you know about the NA when I get the game installed since I know how one of those is supposed to handle too and I can do the same for the RX-8 if you're interested.
 
To those who have driven high performance cars in real life (including me): it's not so easy to make direct comparisons. Yes, those who have real life track experience (including me), or those who have overdriven their road car (including me), have a good sense of what feels right or wrong. However, that experience does not translate 100% to a game because we armchair racers have likely never pushed the limit in real life, besides the few people who have posted here that do track racing as a hobby.

Besides 32 years of driving experience, 11 in North America and 21 in South America where I had some hairy but inconsequential moments on the same gravel stages present in the WRC, I had the pleasure of driving a Ferrari 488 GTB on a racetrack. My real world + sim racing knowledge helped me immensely to attack the track in that beast, but I knew I was leaving massive amounts of time on the table. There were two forces holding me back: the physical abuse that the g-forces were causing, and the very real threat of death or serious injury. Those are two things you will never be able to model in a racing sim.

I do believe that some of the RWD cars are too skittish, however it is extremely difficult for most of us with real-world experience to make a valid comparison while invoking the caveat "I drove x car and this kind of stuff doesn't happen". There is a world of variables such as tires, assist settings, driving style and atmospheric conditions, not to mention the fact that a lot of people (including me) are not pushing the limit in their real world car no matter how brave they think they are.

My Ferrari instructor would not allow me to take the car out of sport mode which is the mode that has minimal TC and ABS; it was made clear that if I turned off assists the car was stopped and my session was immediately finished.

In a nutshell, if you don't have the balls to take your real car and crash it while pushing the limit you also don't have the authority to say "x or y car shouldn't step out in z situation". There are a precious few human beings on this planet that have been on the limit in the cars we drive in videogame car simulators. We don't know jack. We like to think we know, but we don't. Because g-forces and the threat of death hold us back in real life. So no matter what car we own in real life I doubt many of us here have ever driven that car to its true limits.

Gran Turismo has always been oversteery and the more I play GT7 the more I accept that. It's been like this since day one in 1997. Let's just get over this and move on before PD ruins the physics because a bunch of armchair racers (including me) can't stop whining.
 
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The physics is a massive step forward IMO... however, as with most others here, the RWD cars are absolute nonsense.

I have tracked my 2016 GT Mustang and its day and night for grip at certain speeds and gears. Putting Hard Slicks on it is about comparable to what it feels with Micheline PS4's are in real life.

Edit: It still lets go way too abruptly nearing the limit, its fine up until about 7/10's and then its just snap oversteer, or bulk understeer plow.

Also is anyone else having issues with countersteering (on the pad, not wheel)?
Because of the 'drop of a cliff' tyre physics when countersteering into the continual tank slappers, the wheel is VEEEERRRYYYY slow to respond to inputs, when trying to control a tank slapper and having to countersteer left/right/left or vice versa, the game seems to be slowing down the responsiveness. *Countersteer assist off

I thought about turning the countersteer assist on (and I generally don't use assists at all) due to the controller, but have read this just makes the issue worse.
 
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Ok.. i was more optimistic here after first few hours, but now the oversteer of many cars to snap out traction is getting old. The license test with Corvette at Willow is all you need as evidence. Feels like flat rear tyres on rain..
 
There is something fundamentally wrong with GT7.

I've been away from real driving or sim racing for quite some time and thought it was just me. Then I thought my T300 was broken. Then I thought it's the (minor but noticeable) input lag. No, it's just the physics.

I have two GT Academy finalists on my list. I drove irl with one of them. He's always been faster in GT than I am, and even he's struggling. The funny part is? Controller drivers on my list are faster in the license tests than we are. I gave the controller a shot when I couldn't get to the finish line in the M3 wet test at RBR. Boom. Gold. Using TC in GT7 just slows you down so none of that "car is designed around TC" stuff please. I'd eventually gotten gold by several tenths in all (I've reached IB3) but some of those cars/tracks are ridiculous. I've had to gain ALL my time on corner entry when there's braking, then have little to no throttle on the exit or constant radius corners to do it.

I think the rear tyres are programmed by a look up table or a simple formula. Something like (steering angle * throttle * velocity), and when it equals a certain number you instantly lose all grip with no feedback and no chance to recover. I don't recall other games being this bad, not even GTS which had similar traction problems. Most of my sim hours are on AC since it came out, for reference.

FF drive cars on the other hand, are pleasant to drive for once.

I think I worked out the problem with non-slick tyres oversteering out - there's no "limit of lateral grip" ffb. I've just tried a few other cars and if you go too fast into a corner they simply spin out and no amount of correction saves it. But there is none of that chatter you get when you're starting to slide laterally (too fast), certainly in the duff starter cars and the licence ones.

Anyone else noticed this?

I am currently at License IB-1 with the corvette around a fast corner at willow.
I am absolutely frustrated how unreal this behaves. Cars just lose traction all the time even by almost perfectly holding throttle just to maintain speed and having slightest steering inputs.
I am driving these cars for years now myself in reallife around Tracks and i am also Drifting them (not jsut donuts but drifting Tracks). If that would happen like this in real life i would be long dead. They are uncontrollable.
If i had to compare it to my real live experiences it feels like the Corvette drives on a dirty track with 20 years old super hard tyres at 0°C. For sure not Sport Hards. I hated this exact same thing in GT Sport, i can not believe they did this again...No and countersteering doesnt work at all. It also seems that every system like TCS or ABS just make this behaviour worse the higher settign they are on. My best results come with all off. But its still ridiculous how bad these cars perform.

Saw this earlier... Seems weird for an LMP1


I've had this happen more times than not. It's so frustrating.
 
Just bought the M4 F82 in game. I own the M3 F80 CP IRL, so will do a comparison.

Tried it with my usual TCS as 0 and as you can imagine it was a nightmare - never turned it off in real life.

F80 has a kind of ASM as well, so may enable that if needed. Anyone have an idea what the TCS in game level should be to emulate RL? Guess I'll go with 2 or 3 and then ASM if needed.

I run Michellin Pilot Sport 4S's. Would you say thats equivalent to sports soft?
 
Is it just me or do some corners feel more like the geography of the corner effects the car rather than the momentum.

Tight hair pin go in to fast and the momentum makes you over steer great but some hair pins and finding that even if you parked up and creep forward you going to oversteer as if the games going from your location and not speed
 
To those who have driven high performance cars in real life (including me): it's not so easy to make direct comparisons. Yes, those who have real life track experience (including me), or those who have overdriven their road car (including me), have a good sense of what feels right or wrong. However, that experience does not translate 100% to a game because we armchair racers have likely never pushed the limit in real life, besides the few people who have posted here that do track racing as a hobby.

Besides 32 years of driving experience, 11 in North America and 21 in South America where I had some hairy but inconsequential moments on the same gravel stages present in the WRC, I had the pleasure of driving a Ferrari 488 GTB on a racetrack. My real world + sim racing knowledge helped me immensely to attack the track in that beast, but I knew I was leaving massive amounts of time on the table. There were two forces holding me back: the physical abuse that the g-forces were causing, and the very real threat of death or serious injury. Those are two things you will never be able to model in a racing sim.

I do believe that some of the RWD cars are too skittish, however it is extremely difficult for most of us with real-world experience to make a valid comparison while invoking the caveat "I drove x car and this kind of stuff doesn't happen". There is a world of variables such as tires, assist settings, driving style and atmospheric conditions, not to mention the fact that a lot of people (including me) are not pushing the limit in their real world car no matter how brave they think they are.

My Ferrari instructor would not allow me to take the car out of sport mode which is the mode that has minimal TC and ABS; it was made clear that if I turned off assists the car was stopped and my session was immediately finished.

In a nutshell, if you don't have the balls to take your real car and crash it while pushing the limit you also don't have the authority to say "x or y car shouldn't step out in z situation". There are a precious few human beings on this planet that have been on the limit in the cars we drive in videogame car simulators. We don't know jack. We like to think we know, but we don't. Because g-forces and the threat of death hold us back in real life. So no matter what car we own in real life I doubt many of us here have ever driven that car to its true limits.

Gran Turismo has always been oversteery and the more I play GT7 the more I accept that. It's been like this since day one in 1997. Let's just get over this and move on before PD ruins the physics because a bunch of armchair racers (including me) can't stop whining.
But dabbing the throttle of an mx5 or 350z at 50mph isn’t the limit of those cars. That’s the point here. They’re both quite capable of staying on the road being pushed a lot harder than that.
 
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Just completed the Porsche Menu. My 996 was awesome. Porsche Cup replica tune felt smooth at each track. When I read one of the bubble faces before the race, he mentioned the wet conditions. Decided to slap a set of IW on and the whole race was dry until the last lap. Thought I was done at the start because thinking the tyres were the same as GT Sport. Nope. The inters felt good, start to finish.
 
Would love to hear your thoughts on the mazda NA 1.6 thats in the game. Its probably as close as it gets to your NB. Might be that you will have the same experience as me; the game is exaggerated on the limit, and on the limit the car is gone. I tried for an hour to set it up with custom suspension with all kinds of combos but that very very twitchy behaviour on the limit is still there. Holding a slide under throttle is very hard if not impossible, even saving a slide can be very tricky. Feels like the threshold is extremely small.

Being a 1.6 NA MX5 owner as well as a NB and former NC owner, I can safely say the NA in the game is a pretty poor replica from a handling standpoint.
The real car is nowhere near as twitchy, even on all-season tires it is an extremely easy car to drive at and over the limit all day long.
 
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Is it just me or do some corners feel more like the geography of the corner effects the car rather than the momentum.
You might be onto something but I'm not sure it's the case.

With constant throttle and steering, at some point as the car is accelerating it snaps. Typically at exactly the same spot. It could be a bump on the track, but with no feedback it's hard to tell if it's a bump or the car reached its "threshold speed" and snapped.

We need an open area skidpad in the game for testing.
 
R3V
You might be onto something but I'm not sure it's the case.

With constant throttle and steering, at some point as the car is accelerating it snaps. Typically at exactly the same spot. It could be a bump on the track, but with no feedback it's hard to tell if it's a bump or the car reached its "threshold speed" and snapped.

We need an open area skidpad in the game for testing.
Are you testing the car in free mode and if so what track?
 
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