Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[PirovacBoy]

For Fanatec users. If your having oscillation problems make sure in game sensitivity is set to 1. I used to get violent oscillations but since switching the in game setting things have been fine. I have a DD+ and while the wheel has a little bit of center wobble from time to time there aren’t really any oscillations to speak of.

That aside. This is the best my DD+ has felt. Probably since purchase. Driving is fun and visceral in VR and all car’s are now enjoyable to one degree or another because I can finally feel what they are doing and adjust. Which is fantastic because…ya know…that’s kind of the point of the wheel..!

Might be the best update to date.

That Sounds fantastic.
What FW Is your Wheelbase and WQR.
I'm tempted to say exactly the Same...yet i can t because It absolutely doesnt feel Like that on my Side at all.

Oscillations be Like

I'm using the latest up to date Version.
Wheelbase FW 2.7.1.3
WQR FW 1.2.1.5 ,not sure about the last number though.
Basically the currently latest Version available.

Unfortunately if that wasn't enough already, with Full force enabled my Wheelrim has this awful knocking noise
Feels like a tin can with one little Metal Bearing being stuck inside.

And the topping on the cake , my other 2 racing games I play Motorfest and Horizon 5 feel butchered as the FFB has more or less completely left the chat .

With Legacy Driver 474 and Wheelbase FW 2.6.1.5 and WQR 1.1.0.4 Motorfest and Horizon 5 came back alive. Especially Motorfest FFB felt hugely improved after some minor tweaks .
Horizon 5 felt better too, but not that drastically improved like Motorfest.

GT7 though the tin can clunk feels horrible.
Engine Vibration as well as Up/Downshifts or Grip Levels same as Over/Understeer...highly detailed and perfectly aligned with the Legacy GT7 FFB Signal, phenomenal implementation...if it just wasn't for that completely unrelated clunk and knock which can be felt all the time while driving and absolutely feel displaced within this otherwise perfectly translated new FFB/Full force Signal

No matter what I try to do Tuning Menu wise, I just can't separate and get rid of it.

Only Solution is to turn off Controller Vibration.
In that case GT7 feels better than before,yes, but Full force is an eye opener once I experienced it .
No way I ever want to play GT7 without it ever again .
Just that Knocking...making me go ...

 

[jrbabbitt]

Is this the GT7 Physics thread or another variation of a steering wheel rig thread? Im a controller user and all these wheel posts are useless to me...

 

[hawkeyez]

Is this the GT7 Physics thread or another variation of a steering wheel rig thread? Im a controller user and all these wheel posts are useless to me...

Well I think it kind of goes hand in hand. I’m not sure I could really tell physics changes with a controller. Last time I used it all I knew was a car that is tricky to keep in a straight line with a wheel, hardly made me sweat with the controller.

 

[JDMKING13]

Well I think it kind of goes hand in hand. I’m not sure I could really tell physics changes with a controller. Last time I used it all I knew was a car that is tricky to keep in a straight line with a wheel, hardly made me sweat with the controller.

I have to agree with you on this also.. I don’t know how someone can truly judge the physics with a controller. I can understand someone wanted to know if a racing game is usable with a controller, in which GT7 feels great on the controller. I can’t judge the cars with my controller though vs wheel can’t feel anything really.

 

[hawkeyez]

I have to agree with you on this also.. I don’t know how someone can truly judge the physics with a controller. I can understand someone wanted to know if a racing game is usable with a controller, in which GT7 feels great on the controller. I can’t judge the cars with my controller though vs wheel can’t feel anything really.

I can still play with a controller, it’s fun. Although, thinking about it, maybe my fine motor skills aren’t the best and those who have spent a lot of time with a controller may notice things I just couldn’t? Some people have spent tons of time on a tune, know it inside out, PD updates and suddenly they’re struggling to drive it again.

Even so, I have tacticile feedback and a good wheel… at the end of the day, I’m not sure I’m even qualified to judge physics changes. I welcome good changes but most of the time it just feels like one more thing to have to get used of again.

Except earlier GT7, snap oversteer was ridiculous along a few other things. They sorted it out, then kept playing with it and honestly lost track or cared to dive into anything too deep. I’d much rather them fine tune for the next game. But maybe that’s why they do it in updates to just get feedback from the majority… of those who complain the most on what doesn’t feel real.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I have to agree with you on this also.. I don’t know how someone can truly judge the physics with a controller. I can understand someone wanted to know if a racing game is usable with a controller, in which GT7 feels great on the controller. I can’t judge the cars with my controller though vs wheel can’t feel anything really.

I do it by slide (braking, accelerating, etc).

Seems to translate to real life as it's helped me avoid accidents in real life a few times. It happened again on the weekend when (for some ungodly reason) some numpty decide to stop dead on the highway. I slammed on the brakes, could see I was going to hit the car in front, so I did a quick flick to the right and everyone was safe.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Well I think it kind of goes hand in hand. I’m not sure I could really tell physics changes with a controller. Last time I used it all I knew was a car that is tricky to keep in a straight line with a wheel, hardly made me sweat with the controller.

You can and I do, I only use controller, it's all I know and it does me well enough to "feel" differences in the physics of the car.

I have to agree with you on this also.. I don’t know how someone can truly judge the physics with a controller. I can understand someone wanted to know if a racing game is usable with a controller, in which GT7 feels great on the controller. I can’t judge the cars with my controller though vs wheel can’t feel anything really.

Example:
Using a known corner as Indianapolis at Le Mans, pre physics change I could take that corner at 85-90 and I see and feel the car a bit squirrelly, almost at edge of losing control. Post physics change at same corner a go at same speed and all is smoother to me.

I can still play with a controller, it’s fun. Although, thinking about it, maybe my fine motor skills aren’t the best and those who have spent a lot of time with a controller may notice things I just couldn’t? Some people have spent tons of time on a tune, know it inside out, PD updates and suddenly they’re struggling to drive it again.

Even so, I have tacticile feedback and a good wheel… at the end of the day, I’m not sure I’m even qualified to judge physics changes. I welcome good changes but most of the time it just feels like one more thing to have to get used of again.

Except earlier GT7, snap oversteer was ridiculous along a few other things. They sorted it out, then kept playing with it and honestly lost track or cared to dive into anything too deep. I’d much rather them fine tune for the next game. But maybe that’s why they do it in updates to just get feedback from the majority… of those who complain the most on what doesn’t feel real.

So in answer to you, it's not all "feel", it's also how the car handles, the weight transfer, the grip of tyres in turns, the stiffness or looseness of the suspension and how it handles.
You do notice the physics changes with controllers.
I was looking for "how" things changed to adapt my driving to the new change and all I was getting was wheel users complaining about FFB and how to fix....to which those posts need to go in the FFB threads...

 

[hawkeyez]

You can and I do, I only use controller, it's all I know and it does me well enough to "feel" differences in the physics of the car.

Example:
Using a known corner as Indianapolis at Le Mans, pre physics change I could take that corner at 85-90 and I see and feel the car a bit squirrelly, almost at edge of losing control. Post physics change at same corner a go at same speed and all is smoother to me.


So in answer to you, it's not all "feel", it's also how the car handles, the weight transfer, the grip of tyres in turns, the stiffness or looseness of the suspension and how it handles.
You do notice the physics changes with controllers.
I was looking for "how" things changed to adapt my driving to the new change and all I was getting was wheel users complaining about FFB and how to fix....to which those posts need to go in the FFB threads...

I get what you’re saying. I guess in defence for wheel users posting FFB comments, that’s part of how it feels. They did an update one time and my wheel felt way way heavier to the point I started pulling slower laps times because the weight was making me think I was going in too hot.

So maybe controller users are in a different view than cockpit and can actually see the physic changes in the cars and wheel users are in cockpit and it’s all more or less based off feel of FFB?

I haven’t done a race or anything since the spec III update. But besides a couple updates they’ve done in the past, only the extreme cases I noticed a change. I know there has been some updates where people are complaining about something and I wouldn’t have been able to say what changed. Maybe something slightly different but I tend to drive a lot of different cars and the older stuff mostly so it’s all loose handling.

 

[Pie O My]

You can and I do, I only use controller, it's all I know and it does me well enough to "feel" differences in the physics of the car.

Example:
Using a known corner as Indianapolis at Le Mans, pre physics change I could take that corner at 85-90 and I see and feel the car a bit squirrelly, almost at edge of losing control. Post physics change at same corner a go at same speed and all is smoother to me.


So in answer to you, it's not all "feel", it's also how the car handles, the weight transfer, the grip of tyres in turns, the stiffness or looseness of the suspension and how it handles.
You do notice the physics changes with controllers.
I was looking for "how" things changed to adapt my driving to the new change and all I was getting was wheel users complaining about FFB and how to fix....to which those posts need to go in the FFB threads...

How are you finding RWD cars?

After only a little bit of time with them they seem to be more controllable once sliding. Looking forward to investigating more.

 

[jrbabbitt]

How are you finding RWD cars?

After only a little bit of time with them they seem to be more controllable once sliding. Looking forward to investigating more.

Exactly you should learn your cars, i do not use countersteer aid, I do that myself as I feel myself in oversteer by turning in opposite direction. I also tune my cars to not oversteer easily... this to takes time to learn.

 

[Adam41]

Shaking on my TGT too. And FFB feels lifeless when the weight of the car starts to shift until it's too late. I'm having to rely on visual cues to be able to counter oversteer most of the time.

There was shaking on the last FFB update but that was mainly at higher speed. Now it starts at about 10mph. The vibrating was that bad and the FFB that dull, I expected to see lots complaining about it on here but as I didn't, I went to update my firmware on my wheel for the first time in 5 years!

Here's a video of the shaking. I saw another member reported it on their DD Pro, but does no one else feel this?! It's shaking my hands to pieces over a stint and I'm on strength 3 or 4/10!

I know this isn't physics related but as I posted here initially I thought I would just report back here and say that the FFB for the TGT is much better with the new update (it was that bad before I would say it's now "fixed") and the random shaking has now largely been eradicated.

@Greycap you should give it a try if you haven't already.

 

[Greycap]

@Greycap you should give it a try if you haven't already.

I have, and it's indeed good now. Some light tugging but that's nothing that I can't live with and at those speeds small bumps are expected to cause things anyway. So yes, they do listen to us, they just don't show it.

 

[Pie O My]

I know this isn't physics related but as I posted here initially I thought I would just report back here and say that the FFB for the TGT is much better with the new update (it was that bad before I would say it's now "fixed") and the random shaking has now largely been eradicated.

@Greycap you should give it a try if you haven't already.

Is the dullness fixed too?

That was a factor with my CSL Elite too - so much that I had to change the in game settings.

Exactly you should learn your cars, i do not use countersteer aid, I do that myself as I feel myself in oversteer by turning in opposite direction. I also tune my cars to not oversteer easily... this to takes time to learn.

Ah, I meant have you noticed it's different on pad with RWD cars after the update?

 

[Adam41]

Is the dullness fixed too?

That was a factor with my CSL Elite too - so much that I had to change the in game settings.

Yeah that dullness has gone and it's possible to catch slides before it's too late now. Not the best TGT FFB we've had on GT7, but better than 1.63 in my opinion.

 

[hawkeyez]

Just raced on the new update. Hmmm car kicks out easier but you can save it, can also throttle a drift through a corner again. I’m partial to the changes. What I hope now, is they just leave it alone. Maybe that’s their strategy to keep people coming back? Getting used of the new physics? At some point they have hold off and save it for GT8.

 

[Wannablackbee]

With 1.65, I was about to say that after testing, I thought tweaks to the suspension was what made 1.65 so good to drive. Maybe it is not the tires after all. I started going in that direction when I felt the mines skyline was bumpy jumpy and AMG GT3 was less planted and hard to maintain grip on corner exit.

I also based that feeling on observations made at turn 4 of Lago Maggiore. This corner exit where cars used to lose rear end easily at GT7s debuts. Just before 1.65, cars were more planted there to the point where we could go full throttle out on the red zone without much slip. With 1.65, they started to feel loose again in that section.

With 1.66, I returned to Yas Marina with the 296 GT3 and I felt it was dull. The FFB in the wheel seems less communicative, less fun to drive. They really did toned down the FFB but not a lot. All of this to reduce oscillation on straights I guess. I went back to the FTO and I felt less force through the wheel.

I really liked 1.65 and felt it was more lively and easy to drive fast.

Anyways, I was really tired when I tested 1.66 and maybe its all in my head. Sometimes, I get confused with cars behavior being less consistent and tend to forget that it comes with or without tire wear or with or without BOP. Also, the downshift retardant thing might not help and I will get used to it with time.

Is it in the suspension, the tires, the FFB, the changes made to the BOP? I dont know but I will go back and make more tests with a fresh mind.

 

[hawkeyez]

With 1.65, I was about to say that after testing, I thought tweaks to the suspension was what made 1.65 so good to drive. Maybe it is not the tires after all. I started going in that direction when I felt the mines skyline was bumpy jumpy and AMG GT3 was less planted and hard to maintain grip on corner exit.

I also based that feeling on observations made at turn 4 of Lago Maggiore. This corner exit where cars used to lose rear end easily at GT7s debuts. Just before 1.65, cars were more planted there to the point where we could go full throttle out on the red zone without much slip. With 1.65, they started to feel loose again in that section.

With 1.66, I returned to Yas Marina with the 296 GT3 and I felt it was dull. The FFB in the wheel seems less communicative, less fun to drive. They really did toned down the FFB but not a lot. All of this to reduce oscillation on straights I guess. I went back to the FTO and I felt less force through the wheel.

I really liked 1.65 and felt it was more lively and easy to drive fast.

Anyways, I was really tired when I tested 1.66 and maybe its all in my head. Sometimes, I get confused with cars behavior being less consistent and tend to forget that it comes with or without tire wear or with or without BOP. Also, the downshift retardant thing might not help and I will get used to it with time.

Is it in the suspension, the tires, the FFB, the changes made to the BOP? I dont know but I will go back and make more tests with a fresh mind.

I’m still getting some oscillations and such down the straights especially on Gilles track in the manufactures cup race. It’s too bad they can’t mute some of the effects as you get over 100 mph. I can’t imagine those cars whipping the wheel around like it does with mine. Slower speeds feels about right to me though.

 

[Wannablackbee]

I’m still getting some oscillations and such down the straights especially on Gilles track in the manufactures cup race. It’s too bad they can’t mute some of the effects as you get over 100 mph. I can’t imagine those cars whipping the wheel around like it does with mine. Slower speeds feels about right to me though.

Oscillation on my wheel was bearable with 1.65. I do not feel it when I hold the wheel with two hands. It is only wavering when I release my hands from the wheel.

I might step up a notch in game FFB settings to compensate. I do not mind having a little oscillation if I can get better FFB. But I also understand that not everybody has the same wheel so we get an overall one size fits all setting that is not too extreme.

I like to discuss these game updates but I am not too worried. The love of the game goes beyond those inconveniences.

 

[hawkeyez]

Oscillation on my wheel was bearable with 1.65. I do not feel it when I hold the wheel with two hands. It is only wavering when I release my hands from the wheel.

I might step up a notch in game FFB settings to compensate. I do not mind having a little oscillation if I can get better FFB. But I also understand that not everybody has the same wheel so we get an overall one size fits all setting that is not too extreme.

I like to discuss these game updates but I am not too worried. The love of the game goes beyond those inconveniences.

Mine was more hang on or it’s going to go nuts. I have the Logitech G Pro. It has 11nm. I definitely haven’t experienced it this bad before. But it was only with those new - old style F1 cars at Gilles.

 

[Wannablackbee]

Mine was more hang on or it’s going to go nuts. I have the Logitech G Pro. It has 11nm. I definitely haven’t experienced it this bad before. But it was only with those new - old style F1 cars at Gilles.

I see. I have the same wheel here but I dont have to hang on tight. I use default GT7 settings and I adjust in game FFB torque and FFB sensitivity. GT7 default settings uses approximately 5NM which is enough for me.

I did more tests yesterday and I really think they rolled back something with 1.66. It is hard for me to back it up though.

Braking distances seems longer with GT3 cars. The special event at CGV with the 296 road car feels snappy and like driving on ice. Also I am 1 second faster at Yas Marina with the 296 GT3 and I dont know why. I dont have as much fun as last week with that car at that track. In fact, with all cars and all tracks. The cars seem to have lost that feeling of heaviness in the process towards 1.66. It affects traction and weight transfer therefore drivability or pleasure of driving and even drifting.

It is hard to explain. You know, they really nailed it with the electric cars, that heaviness. You can really tell the car is heavy when you drive it. Well, there should be a little bit of that with ICE cars even though they are lighter.

It is not the first time that this game has a fantastic update and in the end, it reverts to an older version or model. At least, they try to make it better.

Enough of me ranting and rambling. I am going to drive.

 

[05XR8]

I haven’t heard any complaints about the brakes on the Valkyrie and LaFerrari. Remember those days?

 

[newmedia_dev]

I see. I have the same wheel here but I dont have to hang on tight. I use default GT7 settings and I adjust in game FFB torque and FFB sensitivity. GT7 default settings uses approximately 5NM which is enough for me.

I did more tests yesterday and I really think they rolled back something with 1.66. It is hard for me to back it up though.

Braking distances seems longer with GT3 cars. The special event at CGV with the 296 road car feels snappy and like driving on ice. Also I am 1 second faster at Yas Marina with the 296 GT3 and I dont know why. I dont have as much fun as last week with that car at that track. In fact, with all cars and all tracks. The cars seem to have lost that feeling of heaviness in the process towards 1.66. It affects traction and weight transfer therefore drivability or pleasure of driving and even drifting.

It is hard to explain. You know, they really nailed it with the electric cars, that heaviness. You can really tell the car is heavy when you drive it. Well, there should be a little bit of that with ICE cars even though they are lighter.

It is not the first time that this game has a fantastic update and in the end, it reverts to an older version or model. At least, they try to make it better.

Enough of me ranting and rambling. I am going to drive.

No you are quite right honestly.

I’ve found the trail braking really exposes those who can’t but think they can.

The gearshifting as problems exposes a few people as well.

What is a big change is the tired audio/grip that is game changing

 

[jrbabbitt]

No you are quite right honestly.

I’ve found the trail braking really exposes those who can’t but think they can.

The gearshifting as problems exposes a few people as well.

What is a big change is the tired audio/grip that is game changing

Please explain what you mean about "I’ve found the trail braking really exposes those who can’t but think they can." because I've been trail braking before i knew what it was. Learning to drive long before ABS my dad told me to apply brakes easily at first so as not to lock the wheels and go sliding and thus I race the same way by NOT stomping on brakes at last minute and locking up my wheels. I get better control with gradual braking.
So please explain to me what you meant as now I think I'm wrong in how I drive??

 

[JDMKING13]

I see. I have the same wheel here but I dont have to hang on tight. I use default GT7 settings and I adjust in game FFB torque and FFB sensitivity. GT7 default settings uses approximately 5NM which is enough for me.

I did more tests yesterday and I really think they rolled back something with 1.66. It is hard for me to back it up though.

Braking distances seems longer with GT3 cars. The special event at CGV with the 296 road car feels snappy and like driving on ice. Also I am 1 second faster at Yas Marina with the 296 GT3 and I dont know why. I dont have as much fun as last week with that car at that track. In fact, with all cars and all tracks. The cars seem to have lost that feeling of heaviness in the process towards 1.66. It affects traction and weight transfer therefore drivability or pleasure of driving and even drifting.

It is hard to explain. You know, they really nailed it with the electric cars, that heaviness. You can really tell the car is heavy when you drive it. Well, there should be a little bit of that with ICE cars even though they are lighter.

It is not the first time that this game has a fantastic update and in the end, it reverts to an older version or model. At least, they try to make it better.

Enough of me ranting and rambling. I am going to drive.

Didn’t the BOP change the weight of a lot of GR.3 cars? This is the best game has felt for me. I just hope they don’t update it and mess it up.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Please explain what you mean about "I’ve found the trail braking really exposes those who can’t but think they can." because I've been trail braking before i knew what it was. Learning to drive long before ABS my dad told me to apply brakes easily at first so as not to lock the wheels and go sliding and thus I race the same way by NOT stomping on brakes at last minute and locking up my wheels. I get better control with gradual braking.
So please explain to me what you meant as now I think I'm wrong in how I drive??

What I mean, and bear in mind I use VR is that cadence braking is not the same as trail braking.

You can absolutely stomp on the the pedal and trail brake as well, it’s about how you split the phases up.

Phases:

1. Majority of braking done hard and in a straight line

2. The transition phase, where you start trading braking force for turn in but managing the apex speed

3. Minimise the coasting phase, where you are off the brakes and either waiting or accelerating.

ABS has nothing to do with performance driving, it’s just digital cadence braking which is a technique to avoid locking the wheels (which as a by product maintains grip) but it doesn’t maximise corner speed or entry braking.

 

[jrbabbitt]

What I mean, and bear in mind I use VR is that cadence braking is not the same as trail braking.

You can absolutely stomp on the the pedal and trail brake as well, it’s about how you split the phases up.

Phases:

1. Majority of braking done hard and in a straight line

2. The transition phase, where you start trading braking force for turn in but managing the apex speed

3. Minimise the coasting phase, where you are off the brakes and either waiting or accelerating.

ABS has nothing to do with performance driving, it’s just digital cadence braking which is a technique to avoid locking the wheels (which as a by product maintains grip) but it doesn’t maximise corner speed or entry braking.

Okay thank you for explaining, I am doing right just that I didn't understand and had to ask. Thank you.

 

[Wannablackbee]

Didn’t the BOP change the weight of a lot of GR.3 cars? This is the best game has felt for me. I just hope they don’t update it and mess it up.

I agree wth you. I really like 1.65 and I also want it to stay like it is. I was all over the place with my last post. I just want to sum it up by saying all I feel while driving is probably more about FFB that they seem to have toned down a bit with 1.66.

Here are parts of the notices that came with these two updates. So they made some FFB changes in 1.65 and then, they adjusted it in 1.66. That is what triggered my curiosity and make me overthinking about FFB when I drive new updates. Anyway, I still really enjoy what GT7 has become!

1.65 details

4. Steering Controllers

　-We’ve added simulated friction to select force-feedback steering wheel controllers to bring the steering feel closer to that of a real car. You’ll now notice a smoother, more authentic resistance as you turn the wheel.

1.66 details

3. Steering Controllers

　- Adjusted the force feedback of the steering controllers.



EDIT. I updated my wheelbase, hub and pedals. I has a blast last nite. FFB is all good to me now. I think i am going crazy these days. Crazy for the game i mean.

 

[Knukel]

Never mind...

 

[Brego]

Am I the only one that notices how often a spin out or collision or contact with a wall/barrier results in the car coming to rest facing exactly 180 degrees the wrong way? I'm calling shenanigans. It's not physics and it's not even an attempt at physics, it is a philosophical decision being forced onto the player. For me it crosses the line from GT7 as simulator, to just another game.

When the tires slide out due to touching the grass or whatever, I'm not fighting to regain control of the vehicle, I'm 100% just trying to prevent the end result of facing 180 the wrong way and seeing limited results.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Am I the only one that notices how often a spin out or collision or contact with a wall/barrier results in the car coming to rest facing exactly 180 degrees the wrong way? I'm calling shenanigans. It's not physics and it's not even an attempt at physics, it is a philosophical decision being forced onto the player. For me it crosses the line from GT7 as simulator, to just another game.

When the tires slide out due to touching the grass or whatever, I'm not fighting to regain control of the vehicle, I'm 100% just trying to prevent the end result of facing 180 the wrong way and seeing limited results.

It's the velcro on the barriers....