Gran Turismo 7 Will Be More Like Classic GT Titles, Says Kazunori Yamauchi

Dave A

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JDA1982
If it was still be a PS5 exclusive right now it would be an uproar, because the PS5 is hard to get.

What backlash did PD/Sony get because I did not see or here of anything, or was it just fake news ?.
Based on what evidence?

I know there was backlash when it was announced as cross-gen with PS4. I was involved in the backlash. I don't yet own a PS5 but I was categorically against it being cross-gen.
 
39,230
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The Bronx
I can't believe after a dozen games between them neither GT or Forza have featured historic tracks like PC. And in terms of events, they're miles behind the Forza games now, FM7 had amazing options for custom races and even Horizon now let's you create your own events and hand pick which cars feature. Personally I think letting players create their own events is the future, Horizon let's you name and share them, that would be amazing in a game like GT.

Beside the weak AI, the last straw for me was GT6 showing a video of a historic race at Le Mans, which wasn't in the career or couldn't be created in the arcade mode. But I really think they must of learned their lesson this time!
Assetto Corsa also had the trick of changing the names of AI to whatever names a player could make up. Create championships with any car on the grid. Add any tracks to that championship and optional points from 10 for first up to 25 for first. For a console simulation game, with a car list the size of GT1 & GT3, there’s endless replayability with that game. The pc community have access to even more options!
GT7 need proper tools to give solo players that Custom Race experience. However, GT League have good ideas, Custom Race, ironically, didn’t allow us to recreate those events.
How can we have half a grid of GT500 cars and GT3 cars in a GT League event, but have only one car to simulate a multi-class race? Made no sense.
 

CBH

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fordlaser777
Based on what evidence?

I know there was backlash when it was announced as cross-gen with PS4. I was involved in the backlash. I don't yet own a PS5 but I was categorically against it being cross-gen.
If all PS5 games was exclusively to that console there would have been an outrage right now, because of a shortage of PS5s. If the PS5 console was easy to get like walking in a store an buying one, would it still have been a cross gen console ?.
 
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Dave A

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If all PS5 games was exclusively to that console there would have been an outrage right now, because of a shortage of PS5s. If the PS5 console was easy to get like walking in a store an buying one, would it still have been a cross gen console?.
But based on what evidence? The fact there was no outcry at all until it was announced as cross-gen, at which time the outcry was at it being cross gen, strongly suggests otherwise. What is the evidence you have to support this view?
 
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CBH

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fordlaser777
But based on what evidence? The fact there was no outcry at all until it was announced as cross-gen, at which time the outcry was at it being cross gen, strongly suggests otherwise. What is the evidence you have to support this view?
Would you be mad If you want to play GT7 and you can't get you hands on a PS5 ?.
 

Dave A

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GT5 wouldn't be have been better had it been cross gen on PS2 though would it. GT5 was a victim of it's over ambition. Trying to do too much and doing none if it well enough.
 
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Stoop_Solo
GT5 wouldn't be have been better had it been cross gen on PS2 though would it.
The issue with that analogy is those two platforms differed so vastly on a fundamental level that even without considering the difference in performance, such an undertaking would have been Herculean. The original PS3 had to include PS2 hardware to support backwards compatibility, before they just gave up on BC altogether. The PS5 on the other hand doesn't even need an emulation layer to run PS4 games; the vast majority just run, as the two platforms are binary compatible.

Forza Horizon 5, for example, is considered a showcase of Xbox Series X capabilities, yet by all accounts still offers a respectable Xbox One experience. There is no reason to assume GT7's PS4 release is going to mire the PS5 version with hideous compromises. Perhaps one might be concerned that Polyphony aren't a developer that could pull off that scalability, but if that were the case, I wouldn't consider them to be the kind of studio that could get the best out of the PS5 in the first place.
 

Dave A

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The issue with that analogy is those two platforms differed so vastly on a fundamental level that even without considering the difference in performance, such an undertaking would have been Herculean. The original PS3 had to include PS2 hardware to support backwards compatibility, before they just gave up on BC altogether. The PS5 on the other hand doesn't even need an emulation layer to run PS4 games; the vast majority just run, as the two platforms are binary compatible.

Forza Horizon 5, for example, is considered a showcase of Xbox Series X capabilities, yet by all accounts still offers a respectable Xbox One experience. There is no reason to assume GT7's PS4 release is going to mire the PS5 version with hideous compromises. Perhaps one might be concerned that Polyphony aren't a developer that could pull off that scalability, but if that were the case, I wouldn't consider them to be the kind of studio that could get the best out of the PS5 in the first place.
It's not possible to get the most out of the PS5 and have the game release cross-gen with cross play. I can’t comment on Forza Horizon 5, I’m not buying it (at least not yet). It looks like it’ll get boring just as fast as 4 did to me, but that’s another argument.

You are right in that the gulf between PS2 and PS3 was big, certainly in system architecture, but the architecutre isn’t relevant here, it’s the system performance.

If GT7 we’re PS5 only you could have much bigger track environments than possible on PS4. You could have larger grids that possible on PS4. You could have much faster physics with far more calculations per second that isn’t possible on PS4. Graphicsl features such as resolution, RTX etc. Can be tweaked or disabled without much fuss, but the core engine underneath is limited by the PS4’s capabilities rather than the PS5’s.
 
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The Pool Of Life.
What exactly would the PS5 accomplish that the PS4 would explicitly hold it back from (aside from dev time I guess)?
I'm no expert but...

The complexity of the AI.
The number of cars on a track at the same time.
There are probably other things I haven't thought of.

There are some things that a new generation console brings with the extra power/processing that was not able to be done with the previous console, otherwise they would have done them. ;)

Having a game straddle to two console generations may limit the ambition, design and innovation in a game on the newer console. Having to work within limits of the current console, unless both versions are very different, may not be a good thing for GT7, or any game in similar situations.

Hopefully PS5 GT7 will be worth it for PS5 owners. As a PS4 owner, who was planning to try and find, and then buy a PS5 for GT7, if there is not a huge benefit to the PS5 version, I will not need to try and find a PS5 to buy. The first version of Playstation I would not buy, unless GT8 were to appear on PS5. ;) And by then, PS5's may be readily available. 😲 ;) 😄
 
1,176
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The Pool Of Life.
You realize that they could change this easily for both versions of the game, right?
They could do a lot of things for the versions on each console, but where the users of each console interact, online racing for example, would there be limits to grid sizes because of PS4 GT7 being able to play with PS5 GT7 users? Time will tell.

If PS5 Gt7 users get in game races with 30+ grids with multiple categories, and PS4 users get 15-20 cars with one category, is that the same game? Because the PS4 theoretically can't do the 30+ grids with multiple categories, will they not have that option in the PS5 version?

Until they start releasing more information on the similarities and differences between the different versions on each console, it is all just speculation.
 
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GTP_Imari
What exactly would the PS5 accomplish that the PS4 would explicitly hold it back from (aside from dev time I guess)?
Gran Turismo has historically been able to be so graphically impressive despite being on substandard hardware because Polyphony could tune the game perfectly for that hardware. That's the advantage of a console - it might be weaker than top end PC hardware at the time but knowing that the game will only run on a single hardware configuration allows for a lot of optimisation.

Putting GT7 explicitly on two (three, if you count PS4Pro) hardware configurations messes with this a lot. This is a developer that has struggled to get two of the last three releases running smoothly on a single hardware configuration. I think it's fair to be worried that given a more difficult task they'll either mess it up and have it run poorly like GT5/6, or not hit the heights of graphical fidelity that Gran Turismo is known for. The latter is sort of what's coming through in the trailers at the moment - the game looks good but it's not really spectacularly ahead of everything else available in the same way that GT3 or GT5P were in their time.

What Polyphony needs to do is show off some stunning weather or night racing, that would be something that would really set them apart. Unfortunately, that's exactly where the PS4 is likely to struggle and hold them back. GTS has shown that they can do weather and night and have them look okay, but whether they can roll that into a dynamic system plus whatever other improvements they're adding in GT7 is a valid area of concern.

There's also the potential for physics or AI to be limited to what is achievable by the lowest power hardware configuration. While this is a possibility, I don't think this is actually a concern as I'm pretty sure Polyphony's physics and AI aren't hardware restricted as it is. There's plenty of games with better physics and AI that run on PS4 or lower level hardware, and so I don't think running on the PS4 is what's holding Polyphony back from making improvements.
 
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happycorey
I hope they do something on AI.
The sad reality of this statement is that we're "8" versions of this game deep and they haven't bothered to put enough effort into it to actually make a difference, despite having multiple AI development testing done in GT Sport and a plethora of individuals in the industry who have specialized in AI driving. They could make it better, but they don't care to make it better. If it's vastly improved, they'll show us. They'll be proud. But if they don't mention it, like many other parts of this and other games of the past, it's going to be under delivered.
 
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12,278
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GTP_Imari
The sad reality of this statement is that we're "8" versions of this game deep and they haven't bothered to put enough effort into it to actually make a difference, despite having multiple AI development testing done in GT Sport and a plethora of individuals in the industry who have specialized in AI driving. They could make it better, but they don't care to make it better. If it's vastly improved, they'll show us. They'll be proud. But if they don't mention it, like many other parts of this and other games of the past, it's going to be under delivered.
I think they honestly believe it's good. That this is what people want. That it's fun. I can only imagine that either most of Polyphony don't play their own game or somehow they're all on basically the same skill level. And they can't be playing other games, because no developer with experience in the modern sim racing genre would find the GT AI to be acceptable.

I feel like Polyphony have many of the same problems that led to the failed launch of Final Fantasy XIV 1.0. From Wikipedia:

In a project postmortem Game Developers Conference 2014, Yoshida reflected on the herculean task of maintaining and updating an MMORPG while simultaneously developing a new one over the course of just two years and eight months. He identified three main reasons why the original launch failed: an over-emphasis on graphical quality, a lack of modern MMORPG expertise in the development team, and a mentality that all problems could be fixed in future patches.

I feel that these also apply to Polyphony. GT7 will almost certainly not be a catastrophe like FFXIV1.0 was, that was a disaster of epic proportions. But the same problems will probably lead to the game not being as good as it could or should be. Polyphony overemphasise graphical quality over gameplay, they lack modern racing game expertise, and there's certainly evidence that they think that many problems can be fixed in patches. It's a bad mindset to have.
 
39,230
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The Bronx
If Kaz, literally, switched focus to the past games, after his experience with the World Tour players that “evening”, maybe… maybe…. maybe, he listened to feedback/wish lists from those players, if they were asked how the next GTs can be improved.
Per gtplanet, if I recall correctly, and recent interviews, PD used those WT players for testing. Maybe WT players don’t care about AI, but I’m sure those that don’t care about AI, would explain why.

We don’t know what setting the AI were programmed in the trailers. Plus, there seem to be more emphasis on cockpit view. The exterior shots seem to be hi-res rendered clips. Could be part putting players in the driver’s seat and part showing off graphic quality.

Another thing about the AI, from the in car view the TCS is not on. In the trailer with the 917K versus Gr.3 cars, the RX-V GT3 has TCS On. Definitely impedes smooth power delivery. Hopefully, PD has toned down the intrusion of the off/on switch of their TCS(should have a look at ACC traction control).
Could be a good sign for smoother AI if that Lamborghini is AI programmed.
 
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422
Australia
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Nicky-Boy_7
The AI improvement is my biggest hope along with more road detail sensed through a wheel.

I'm hoping that Igor and that other dude provided some useful feedback on both these fronts. At least PD apparently consulted these guys, so that has me feeling a bit optimistic.
 
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Brandon, MB
Silver-Arrows21
I think they honestly believe it's good. That this is what people want. That it's fun. I can only imagine that either most of Polyphony don't play their own game or somehow they're all on basically the same skill level. And they can't be playing other games, because no developer with experience in the modern sim racing genre would find the GT AI to be acceptable.

I feel like Polyphony have many of the same problems that led to the failed launch of Final Fantasy XIV 1.0. From Wikipedia:

In a project postmortem Game Developers Conference 2014, Yoshida reflected on the herculean task of maintaining and updating an MMORPG while simultaneously developing a new one over the course of just two years and eight months. He identified three main reasons why the original launch failed: an over-emphasis on graphical quality, a lack of modern MMORPG expertise in the development team, and a mentality that all problems could be fixed in future patches.

I feel that these also apply to Polyphony. GT7 will almost certainly not be a catastrophe like FFXIV1.0 was, that was a disaster of epic proportions. But the same problems will probably lead to the game not being as good as it could or should be. Polyphony overemphasise graphical quality over gameplay, they lack modern racing game expertise, and there's certainly evidence that they think that many problems can be fixed in patches. It's a bad mindset to have.

One difference between FFXIV 1.0 and GT as a series and as an entity: FFXIV 1.0 doesn't have a console OEM backing them. At one point, Square Enix would have probably shuttered the project if the new head of XIV didn't have such a grand vision for the game, and moved heaven and earth to get it done. With GT, who gives a **** if the games are good or bad? Sony will always let Kaz be Kaz because he holds a lot more power now that Sony has shifted first party development almost entirely West.

Though at some point, I wonder what has to happen for Sony to stomp their foot down and take control and force Kaz to adapt and create better games instead of creating insular circlejerk sessions that occasionally sell 10+ million copies.
 
39,230
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The Bronx
Hope they bring back events like Muscle Car Cup in GT2 and M sport event in GT4. Only races I really remember, were at Seattle in the Muscle/Pony cars. Loved racing around El Capitan in the M3 CSL and M5.
 
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st3vao_YT
one thing I really hope gets some needed improvement is the TCS system, even in the lowest setting it is really aggressive. In the lowest setting, it should only help if you stamp the gas pedal, but allow you to spin out...
 

JDMKING13

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one thing I really hope gets some needed improvement is the TCS system, even in the lowest setting it is really aggressive. In the lowest setting, it should only help if you stamp the gas pedal, but allow you to spin out...
With TCS 1 you can definitely spin out if you don’t have ASM on.