- 150
- Florida
- d4rizob
Gran Turismo Gentlemans Cup (GTGC) | FINISHED! (for now...) Thanks to everyone who joined in!Finished
- Thread starter flip55
- 1,261 comments
- 43,334 views
- 8,128
- 2 smacks past uranus
- Somebodyshootme
That is what happened... i am actually kinda sad about this. After the qualifying race I thought the two of us were about to have an epic battle from start to finish and it was lining up that way. :-( At the end it was looking to be real close then the closing laps you fell off.
How was your tire wear? If I had to guess because I still have not reviewed the race I am willing to bet you were trying to push and reserve your tires in both races. I really was hoping to get pushed hard by you at the end if the main race. It would have helped testing out a theory along with having an epic finish.
- 8,128
- 2 smacks past uranus
- Somebodyshootme
Rob your running a wheel? Which one and what button layout are you using? Also to add to that, do not worry about who is coming up behind you. The moment you take that out of your thoughts you'll be more focused and not make a mistake. Take that from experience I also do it a little too much.
- 150
- Florida
- d4rizob
G27, I assigned it to the wheel because I was determined to learn how to drift, but have failed. I just keep forgetting to take it off.
I usually drive my race but make sure I do not hold up lapping drivers, but I was getting real tired and just trying to finish the race. The race started great, went from the back row right up the middle to 3rd, I hope I didn't bang into anybody. I knew I wouldn't stay there long and I didn't, but made a mistake at the 20 minute mark and had to pit for damage. After that I just got real tired, hard time concentrating and lost lots of pace.
- 8,128
- 2 smacks past uranus
- Somebodyshootme
I have said this in the past and will continue to say this. Moving over for lap traffic only causes incidents. The lapping driver always appreciates it, but they do not want any incident. It is the passing drivers responsibility to pass cleanly, do not sacrifice your race because your getting lapped. Hold your line it works out better for everyone.
- 1,261
- Ca
- Kgffy28
Lowest tires got was 7 and middle of stint we were very close in speed, end of stint I knew I had no chance so I backed off, I feel more comfortable with car with little worn tires weird, my fastest lap was only tenth behind u so there was a lot of potential for a great battle, feel bad SoCal lost his 3rd place starting postion he had great speed.
- 8,128
- 2 smacks past uranus
- Somebodyshootme
:-), over a year ago I found Flip and race series that he has put together. Although until the end of next month I can not consider this a win or 1st place finish. I can say this, there have been many hard battles with former and current racers in Flip's series.
From the original GTTCC which I just wanted to improve racecraft versus being a contender for the title, onto the first 'spec series' where a bad pit decisions at Spa resulted in a second place finish killed me.
This series had been some of the hardest fought series competitively I have been a part of. Out of the real world and virtual world running karts, cars, or pushing virtual pedals I have pressed the hardest in this series competitively.
Something over the past month took over while driving in this series. You can run the Mazda dominance in argument here, but running it at 80kg and 60kg ballast deficits it is not justifiable to say I pushed harder then I could over the past races. Although I'll never be an 'alien' I feel the last two races I could have given a good challenge to 1 or 2 of our loved 'Aliens'.
Flip thank you for continuing after over a year to continue running this series. It maybe fractional to this world in general, but I think each individual that competes can thank you for believing in running these series and continuing with the upkeep of them.
For the next month I will give up my #68 car for the #1 car as long as I have the right/option to get my #68 car back. As for the #2 car I will leave that to Ares to make his decision on that number. I do not want a new member to come in and steal his number.
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- 524
- los angeles ca
- socalspeedfreak
ok i've waited a few days to post about ascari . decent pace considering the 80kg. Somebody and KG had the race pace congrats to Somebody. I know technical issues had me starting farther back. that being said I was a little upset with getting damage in what was for all purposes lap 1. Still had the pace to pick up a few positions but had hoped to do better,
that being said Ares I would hope in the future you could show more patience in the early laps of the race. our contact in turn one that caused us both damage should have been avoided. at full race pace there is no way to go two wide there.
i'm over it now but this is a gentlemen's series and giving some respect in certain situations is expected. we both had decent pace but too bad our results don't show it in the final results.
only good thing is I loose some weight for the next race. Nurb 24hrs never raced there in a series should be interesting
that being said Ares I would hope in the future you could show more patience in the early laps of the race. our contact in turn one that caused us both damage should have been avoided. at full race pace there is no way to go two wide there.
i'm over it now but this is a gentlemen's series and giving some respect in certain situations is expected. we both had decent pace but too bad our results don't show it in the final results.
only good thing is I loose some weight for the next race. Nurb 24hrs never raced there in a series should be interesting
- 524
- los angeles ca
- socalspeedfreak
- 1,392
- Satellite of Love
- flip157
@socalspeedfreak You're a week ahead, mate. Brands Hatch is this week.
- 1,392
- Satellite of Love
- flip157
So I have some analysis of the last month in April.
For those who haven't seen, points are up. Congrats to Somebodyshootme and the I'll Owe You Won Racing team for a dominant season!
Overall, I'd say things went well, keeping up our streak since January
. Racing has been good and clean (mostly), we're moving along nicely. So thank you guys for sticking it out for another season!
Now comes the part that I know is going to upset some people: Performance adjustment.
Sorry. I hate bringing this up, and am very nervous here because I've run into this crap before. But I think it has to happen. This effects ALL brands, not just one. Unfortunately, though, I'm going to spend most time talking about one.
I look at the race at Ascari for this first point. The gap in qualifying from the two front running Mazdas to the first car that wasn't a Mazda was about a second and a half. In the race, Mazdas were lapping comfortably in the 2:08s and even in the 2:07s. The rest of the field could not break the 2:09s, or not regularly anyway. Two seconds a lap over the rest of the field. And that was from two Mazdas with no weight, and one with almost full ballast. So there's evidence to suggest that they could have gone faster.
You can look at the end of qualifying in the first two rounds where if 4 of the top 5 cars weren't Mazdas, it was really close to it. I think more mistake took out Mazdas from the front of the field than the pace of the car.
Now, yes Midfield was a bit of a different story. But remember that pretty much all of the Mazdas had success weight added. There is a straight line disadvantage, and maybe I accidentally made up a schedule of tracks that favor these cars (I mean RWD in general). But even on those tracks, that ballast doesn't seem to affect them that greatly.
I had a feeling something was weird when I got 6 signups for the RX - 8 before the season started. The point of this is not to blame the faster guys for grabbing this car. If I were coming into this series, not having created it, I'd probably do the same thing. But what I think this means is that I missed something with the initial BOP, and that's what I'm not okay with.
**My question to the Mazda drivers is this: What is the Mazda doing that the other two RWD cars aren't?**
I would like to know so I can better prepare series for the future. I feel like something completely blew past me, because the lap times in my preseason stuff say they're fine. I never ran this car with a real tune, either, so maybe it turns into a rocket when you tune it? I honestly do not know. And I'm not sure what to do about it moving forward.
***Other cars aren't being forgotten, by the way.***
The other thing I would do is give the Civic a SLIGHT hp restriction. 6+ miles an hour on the field at the end of any given straight is a bit much.
Unfortunately, there is not enough data for the Subaru/Toyota, and no data for the BMW and the Integra to go off of for those cars, so that's where it gets tricky. euclid58, you may speak up if you see anything with the BRZ, you're really the only driver in that car for the most part.
And before everyone says I'm trying to bring the field down because I, and my team are in VWs, let me say this: I will admit, that is a fast car. It is sort of in between the Mazdas and the rest of the pack, in general. But the Scirocco is NOT immune to any adjustments that need to be made. I want to look at everything that's running.
I may be trying to do the impossible with balancing and adjusting performance of cars that aren't really supposed to be. But I advertise that I do for the series, so I take this a little more seriously that I probably should.
That's all I have to say for now. Other problem is that we're a little tight for time with Brands starting up this week, tomorrow night, in fact.
The floor is open. Any suggestions would be great.
For those who haven't seen, points are up. Congrats to Somebodyshootme and the I'll Owe You Won Racing team for a dominant season!
Overall, I'd say things went well, keeping up our streak since January
. Racing has been good and clean (mostly), we're moving along nicely. So thank you guys for sticking it out for another season!Now comes the part that I know is going to upset some people: Performance adjustment.
Sorry. I hate bringing this up, and am very nervous here because I've run into this crap before. But I think it has to happen. This effects ALL brands, not just one. Unfortunately, though, I'm going to spend most time talking about one.
I look at the race at Ascari for this first point. The gap in qualifying from the two front running Mazdas to the first car that wasn't a Mazda was about a second and a half. In the race, Mazdas were lapping comfortably in the 2:08s and even in the 2:07s. The rest of the field could not break the 2:09s, or not regularly anyway. Two seconds a lap over the rest of the field. And that was from two Mazdas with no weight, and one with almost full ballast. So there's evidence to suggest that they could have gone faster.
You can look at the end of qualifying in the first two rounds where if 4 of the top 5 cars weren't Mazdas, it was really close to it. I think more mistake took out Mazdas from the front of the field than the pace of the car.
Now, yes Midfield was a bit of a different story. But remember that pretty much all of the Mazdas had success weight added. There is a straight line disadvantage, and maybe I accidentally made up a schedule of tracks that favor these cars (I mean RWD in general). But even on those tracks, that ballast doesn't seem to affect them that greatly.
I had a feeling something was weird when I got 6 signups for the RX - 8 before the season started. The point of this is not to blame the faster guys for grabbing this car. If I were coming into this series, not having created it, I'd probably do the same thing. But what I think this means is that I missed something with the initial BOP, and that's what I'm not okay with.
**My question to the Mazda drivers is this: What is the Mazda doing that the other two RWD cars aren't?**
I would like to know so I can better prepare series for the future. I feel like something completely blew past me, because the lap times in my preseason stuff say they're fine. I never ran this car with a real tune, either, so maybe it turns into a rocket when you tune it? I honestly do not know. And I'm not sure what to do about it moving forward.
***Other cars aren't being forgotten, by the way.***
The other thing I would do is give the Civic a SLIGHT hp restriction. 6+ miles an hour on the field at the end of any given straight is a bit much.
Unfortunately, there is not enough data for the Subaru/Toyota, and no data for the BMW and the Integra to go off of for those cars, so that's where it gets tricky. euclid58, you may speak up if you see anything with the BRZ, you're really the only driver in that car for the most part.
And before everyone says I'm trying to bring the field down because I, and my team are in VWs, let me say this: I will admit, that is a fast car. It is sort of in between the Mazdas and the rest of the pack, in general. But the Scirocco is NOT immune to any adjustments that need to be made. I want to look at everything that's running.
I may be trying to do the impossible with balancing and adjusting performance of cars that aren't really supposed to be. But I advertise that I do for the series, so I take this a little more seriously that I probably should.
That's all I have to say for now. Other problem is that we're a little tight for time with Brands starting up this week, tomorrow night, in fact.
The floor is open. Any suggestions would be great.
- 1,261
- Ca
- Kgffy28
Another thing to think about is the level of skill of who's driving what, saw Vel with brz do some very quick laps during season, also think we should maybe limit how many driving a certain car, like limit it to 4. I going to try and test bmw and Honda again tommorow night. It could be we need to have a season of ff cars only then fr only season, if u do more to make mazda closer in speed to ff but then we get a high speed track rx8 will get dusted.
- 1,392
- Satellite of Love
- flip157
I completely agree that driver skill has quite a lot to do with performance, but that is a bit more difficult to quantify.
And yeah, I may have to limit the number of cars in the future, but I feel like the fact that there are so many leads to there being a performance gap that I didn't see.
- 8,128
- 2 smacks past uranus
- Somebodyshootme
I will input further later after work, but the main advantage of the RX8 over the other two RWD vehicles is its balance and rotation control. From driving the NSX a few months ago it felt very similar to me. Had I had no ballast at Ascari, I would have been lapping in the ' 06 second mark with the fastest lap I put down at a sub 2'05.xxx when I practiced. I watched a lot of Ascari and the main key to that race is flow.
Tbc.
Actually at the beginning of April I was torn between the Mazda and BMW. The BMW is planted and plows a little too much, a good tune with proper driving technique it would have been extremely fast. Believe it or not before the first race at Grand Valley I was a second behind all the posted times and times I saw at the track testing the cars. The BMW was .5xx seconds faster then the RX8 for me.
A track like Ascari and Apricot Hill were both very punishing on FWD cars. There is simply no way during an endurance race that they would be able to hang with front runners. The tire wear would be too much to deal with. Midfield showed that too and even with no ballast for me keeping up with the Honda would have been an extremely tough task for me.
TBC
Tbc.
Actually at the beginning of April I was torn between the Mazda and BMW. The BMW is planted and plows a little too much, a good tune with proper driving technique it would have been extremely fast. Believe it or not before the first race at Grand Valley I was a second behind all the posted times and times I saw at the track testing the cars. The BMW was .5xx seconds faster then the RX8 for me.
A track like Ascari and Apricot Hill were both very punishing on FWD cars. There is simply no way during an endurance race that they would be able to hang with front runners. The tire wear would be too much to deal with. Midfield showed that too and even with no ballast for me keeping up with the Honda would have been an extremely tough task for me.
TBC
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- 1,435
- Mission, British Columbia
- BC_BOYZZ
Like Miata said, tire wear and speed in the corners is what put the rx8 on top of the Integra and BMW for me. I had tested the Integra in the off week we had, and it was by far the best rotating fwd of the group. I didn't have to buzz the tires off in the corners to keep up speed either. I agree with what KG said in that there should be a limit to each car (Possibly a car selection process like 1st place from last season gets first pick, 2nd gets second pick and so on)
- 8,128
- 2 smacks past uranus
- Somebodyshootme
Agreed with the selection of cars, but a reverse selection might be better. Giving the top podium guys last pick. It would add an interesting dynamic to picking cars. Might be something to test out.
- 159
- Iowa
- draqua_fresh
Personally, I feel punishing drivers for choosing a particular car is usually not the way to go with performance adjustments. So hindering the Honda or mazda because of a high top speed or good handeling makes thing "less fun" or something along those lines. The Hondas are rockets Ships on the straights but on the more twisty tracks the Honda was a mid feild car, where as the Mazda didn't have the gusting down the straights made leaps and bounds in the corners.
It may be difficult to fully get the adjustments to a perfect balance of speed and handeling for all of the cars but my personal opinion is to leave the mazdas the same [or similar], and adjust the other cars up to in instead of bringing them down.
So in short, balence up, not down.!
Regardless of AOP I'm gonna stick with my bug, I trust flip and all the rest of ya to make informed and thought out decisions regarding the fairness of the cars at hand.
It may be difficult to fully get the adjustments to a perfect balance of speed and handeling for all of the cars but my personal opinion is to leave the mazdas the same [or similar], and adjust the other cars up to in instead of bringing them down.
So in short, balence up, not down.!
Regardless of AOP I'm gonna stick with my bug, I trust flip and all the rest of ya to make informed and thought out decisions regarding the fairness of the cars at hand.
- 1,392
- Satellite of Love
- flip157
I was thinking reverse selection as well. Doesn't give the back runners a chance at all if it's isn't.
On the note of other cars: I don't doubt that you or anyone else could achieve the same lap times in another similar car. Again, driver skill is a hard thing to account for. Someone like you, BC, or VEL are fast, no matter what you guys drive. I just found the swiftness and the quantity of the selection a bit odd.
It's a 'penalty' either way. Doesn't matter whether power gets taken away or others around get more power, the advantage is attempting to be taken away in either case. What I do know is it's easier to adjust one or two cars than it is four or five.
- 159
- Iowa
- draqua_fresh
- 8,128
- 2 smacks past uranus
- Somebodyshootme
Another thing to bring into this might be a performance bump for the back runners. It will take 2 months of racing to even out but might add another interesting aspect to the series. Instead of added weight, maybe a loss of weight for the last 3 finishers.
I think weight is better then power for the final people racing because it will add swiftness to everything they do instead of giving more power to them which may make the car hard to keep control of.
I think weight is better then power for the final people racing because it will add swiftness to everything they do instead of giving more power to them which may make the car hard to keep control of.
- 524
- los angeles ca
- socalspeedfreak
all good points by everyone. for me i know i'm not the most skilled driver so i need to rely on tire where straight line speed and consistent lap times. it does seem like the RX8 can run lower more consistent lap times and that's hard to beat. mid field was the civics track with few low speed corners so the tracks we race have an effect on the performance too. very difficult to resolve. I'm good with what ever decision is make.
- 524
- los angeles ca
- socalspeedfreak
