Gran Turismo Ranked Best Driving Game Ever by Top Gear

[Imari]

When i said acceptable i mean i accept that it is a true flaw not that i accept the existance of that flaw.

What? How can you accept something as a flaw yet not accept it exists?

There's the camber problems, the ride height problems, the aero, the tyre heating, the fact that half the tyres have fantasy levels of grip. Then there's the minor weirdnesses with the weight transfer, the rollover physics, the weight distribution on some cars. Not to mention that the vast majority of cars come with a copy and paste setup rather than stock values for the car. Often you have to tune the car to get it stock...

It's a decent Sim but there are plenty of flaws of you know what you're looking at. No Sim is perfect, but gt6 is not at the top of the pile. Not by a long shot. And to be honest, GT never has been. It's a passable sim with a great car list and in some games enjoyable game play.

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

What? How can you accept something as a flaw yet not accept it exists?

There's the camber problems, the ride height problems, the aero, the tyre heating, the fact that half the tyres have fantasy levels of grip. Then there's the minor weirdnesses with the weight transfer, the rollover physics, the weight distribution on some cars. Not to mention that the vast majority of cars come with a copy and paste setup rather than stock values for the car. Often you have to tune the car to get it stock...

It's a decent Sim but there are plenty of flaws of you know what you're looking at. No Sim is perfect, but gt6 is not at the top of the pile. Not by a long shot. And to be honest, GT never has been. It's a passable sim with a great car list and in some games enjoyable game play.

Face palm ... by meaning that i don't accept it's existance is that i wish it didn't had a flaw like that in the game but the reality is harsh to deny a certain flaw which exists in the game.
Ok - so some cars needs a tune to make it stock - for example - the gear shifting timing factory setup.
Cause as i know - each car from the same model ( for example Nissan GTR ) comes with a different gear shifting timing factory setup.
So in real life when you bring 2 twins of the same car from the factory will have a different acceleration performence due to the different factory gear shifting setup.
Of course there is no perfect sim - no matter what kind of physics engine the companies will produce - it will never be 100% identical to the reality but only to be accurate or it won't be called a sim.
What separates sim & reality is that the reality could have an almost micro-infinitly different values in every second when the sim is almost an always stable values.
Well if we talk about consoles sims at it's time without counting PC sims & PS4 with Xbone - to me it's the best overall on consoles on 2013 era.
Bring me a better game than GT series on consoles before PS4 & Xbone which is better overall in simulation.
The only games i know which rivals it are :
1- Sega GT.
2- Enthusia Professional Racing.
3- Forza Motorsport ( while i think it's a simcade )
I don't remember anything else to the level of GT at that period.
If i would mention 1 other game but i don't think it is a strong sim is TOCA Race Driver.

 

[Imari]

Bring me a better game than GT series on consoles before PS4 & Xbone which is better overall in simulation.

Race Pro
Forza Motorsport 3 and 4
F1 2014 is a better F1 sim (as are most of the F1 series)
Dirt 3 is a better rally sim

Forza Horizon is still a pretty decent simulation in many ways, grippy tyres aside (*ahem*racingsoft*ahem*). It's hard to tell comparing smooth race tracks to bumpy roads though. I think as an all-round tarmac+dirt physics engine it probably has GT6 beat overall, but it's probably down to preference. I find it a little worse on tarmac and a lot better on dirt.

I mean, and that's with you narrowing it to consoles that aren't current gen. On PC there are better sims from ten years before GT6. The best PC sims stomp all over everything on console without even a second thought. The only thing that even comes remotely close as a console exclusive is Forza 6.

And on modern consoles you've also got FM5, pCARS, Dirt Rally, F1 2016, FH 2 and 3, and Assetto Corsa. Do you start to see how GT6 is actually quite a long way down the list unless you're incredibly specific with your requirements?

Gran Turismo is not and never will be designed to be the ultimate in simulation, because that's an incredibly niche market. There's a reason why iRacing hasn't got ten million subscribers, and it's not because it isn't good at what it does. It's because there just aren't that many people who get their jollies from actually wrestling with a realistically behaving car.

What most people want is something that is enough to let them believe that it's real, and still let them feel like a hero. Gran Turismo.

 

[eran0004]

GT AI has indeed never been great but there is one thing GT6 had that no other GT game had, at least not until they patched GT5. Rolling starts with the cars spaced 20-50 seconds apart in every single offline event.

There is no single player racing in GT6, not as we know it. There is just 'catch the rabbit while you pass much slower cars' challenges. That is an absolutely massive flaw and one which to me means there is no way it can be considered the best GT game, irrespective of anything else.

Aren't the Red Bull races standing start?

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

Race Pro
Forza Motorsport 3 and 4
F1 2014 is a better F1 sim (as are most of the F1 series)
Dirt 3 is a better rally sim

Forza Horizon is still a pretty decent simulation in many ways, grippy tyres aside (*ahem*racingsoft*ahem*). It's hard to tell comparing smooth race tracks to bumpy roads though. I think as an all-round tarmac+dirt physics engine it probably has GT6 beat overall, but it's probably down to preference. I find it a little worse on tarmac and a lot better on dirt.

I mean, and that's with you narrowing it to consoles that aren't current gen. On PC there are better sims from ten years before GT6. The best PC sims stomp all over everything on console without even a second thought. The only thing that even comes remotely close as a console exclusive is Forza 6.

And on modern consoles you've also got FM5, pCARS, Dirt Rally, F1 2016, FH 2 and 3, and Assetto Corsa. Do you start to see how GT6 is actually quite a long way down the list unless you're incredibly specific with your requirements?

Gran Turismo is not and never will be designed to be the ultimate in simulation, because that's an incredibly niche market. There's a reason why iRacing hasn't got ten million subscribers, and it's not because it isn't good at what it does. It's because there just aren't that many people who get their jollies from actually wrestling with a realistically behaving car.

What most people want is something that is enough to let them believe that it's real, and still let them feel like a hero. Gran Turismo.

So - you've proved that i'm correct
When you don't compare PC & the current console gen - GT6 is overall the best in 2013 era
You've used multiple games to beat GT in every espect when GT does them all at once.
Please don't bring Forza Horizon, but bring Forza Motorsport since Forza horizon is more like need for speed rather than focus more on simulation like Forza Motorsport does.
The best Forza ever released was FM4 to me.
The only especially true contender to GT6 in 2013 era is FM4 when we talk about the same console gen.
I played FM6 & saw Forza horizon - to me they don't hold a candle to FM4.
FM4 has the most cars ( i think if we counted DLC & the game - there are maybe about 600 cars ) & if i'm not mistaken the most tracks & the best in engine sounds compared to other Forza titles when the previous sound director was there in FM4.
I've narrowed it to consoles because PC is an unfair comparison to consoles, and bringing newer consoles compared to last gen is also unfair.

 

[Imari]

So - you've proved that i'm correct
When you don't compare PC & the current console gen - GT6 is overall the best in 2013 era
You've used muliple games to beat GT in every espect when GT does them all at once.

Uh, no. If you ask me what the best non-current era console simulation is, it's Forza 4. It's not even particularly close.

You asked for games that are better overall simulations. I think all of the ones I listed are either outright better or at least debatably so. I mean, all these games have different feature sets, but I think you can make a decent argument for any of them depending on what you find most important in a sim.

Please don't bring Forza Horizon, but bring Forza Motorsport since Forza horizon is more like need for speed rather than focus more on simulation like Forza Motorsport does.

You should play it. It's pretty good, and it's far less arcade than some people make it out to be. It's fundamentally the same physics as Motorsport, with some grip modifiers.

Put aside your preconceptions and approach it like a sim and I think you'll find it to be surprisingly capable. At least as capable as GT6. There are a number of areas in which it's significantly more realistic. Like dirt racing, and weight transfer.

I've narrowed it to consoles because PC is an unfair comparison to consoles, and bringing newer consoles compared to last gen is also unfair.

Why is PC unfair? I mean, if we're comparing something like GT Legends or GTR 2, that hardly seems unfair. Even comparing it to iRacing or Assetto Corsa seems OK. AC has been in early access since late 2013, and iRacing came out in 2008. It's not like we're comparing graphics here, we're talking about physics.

Why are newer consoles unfair? Polyphony released a game after X1 and PS4 released. They're first party, they had the opportunity to publish on PS4 if anyone did. They put a game out on older hardware and I think it's fair to judge it against games from the same time frame.

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

Uh, no. If you ask me what the best non-current era console simulation is, it's Forza 4. It's not even particularly close.

You asked for games that are better overall simulations. I think all of the ones I listed are either outright better or at least debatably so. I mean, all these games have different feature sets, but I think you can make a decent argument for any of them depending on what you find most important in a sim.



You should play it. It's pretty good, and it's far less arcade than some people make it out to be. It's fundamentally the same physics as Motorsport, with some grip modifiers.

Put aside your preconceptions and approach it like a sim and I think you'll find it to be surprisingly capable. At least as capable as GT6. There are a number of areas in which it's significantly more realistic. Like dirt racing, and weight transfer.



Why is PC unfair? I mean, if we're comparing something like GT Legends or GTR 2, that hardly seems unfair. Even comparing it to iRacing or Assetto Corsa seems OK. AC has been in early access since late 2013, and iRacing came out in 2008. It's not like we're comparing graphics here, we're talking about physics.

Why are newer consoles unfair? Polyphony released a game after X1 and PS4 released. They're first party, they had the opportunity to publish on PS4 if anyone did. They put a game out on older hardware and I think it's fair to judge it against games from the same time frame.

It's common that when you compare the PC version of the game - you can have better chances to top it against the console version since the PC is limitless to be modded compared to the console since it's limited.
You can make the physics acts better on PC version compared to the console limits - for example - Project Cars.
I've played Forza 4 enough to know the difference between the 2 games.
I used the same car i drive in real life - in Forza 4 it's shacky like a sand bag when in GT6 you can feel it's grip on the circuit.
About FH I saw it when my friends were playing it infront me - it's arcadish no matter how much i look at it.
Well - as long as GT6 has it's problems on an old hardware then it's irrelevant to compare it to a newer games on newer consoles.
When you compare it to the newer games on newer consoles - you're disconnecting the limits of the games.
It's like saying :
That guy can challenge this academic guy because he got top marks at high school.
Please don't be so sure that GT will never be a great sim like other sims from your point of view until GTSport is released to compare it.

Man i wish i never talked about GT6.
I should have sticked to GT4 to save my time.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It's common that when you compare the PC version of the game - you can have better chances to top it against the console version since the PC is limitless to be modded compared to the console since it's limited.
You can make the physics acts better on PC version compared to the console limits - for example - Project Cars.
I've played Forza 4 enough to know the difference between the 2 games.
I used the same car i drive in real life - in Forza 4 it's shacky like a sand bag when in GT6 you can feel it's grip on the circuit.
About FH I saw it when my friends were playing it infront me - it's arcadish no matter how much i look at it.
Well - as long as GT6 has it's problems on an old hardware then it's irrelevant to compare it to a newer games on newer consoles.
When you compare it to the newer games on newer consoles - you're disconnecting the limits of the games.
It's like saying :
That guy can challenge this academic guy because he got top marks at high school.
Please don't be so sure that GT will never be a great sim like other sims from your point of view until GTSport is released to compare it.

Man i wish i never talked about GT6.
I should have sticked to GT4 to save my time.

So basically, it's an unfair comparison if there's a chance GT6 doesn't come out ahead?

Gotcha.

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

So basically, it's an unfair comparison if there's a chance GT6 doesn't come out ahead?

Gotcha.

I didn't understand ... by "ahead" in which way ?

Edit : wait i think i got it now.
You mean there is a chance for it to be unfair since it's not in PS4 ?
If you mean that then yes - because KAZ himself mentioned on how nightmarish it was to program the game in PS3 so if it was in PS4 then it'll have a better chance to be better since the PS4 hardware is user friendly
If the question on why GT6 wasn't released in PS4 then it'll be highly this reason :
To push the PS3 to a farther limit.
I hope that he'll make it up in GTSport

 

[LeGeNd-1]

@LeGeNd-1
Well i never said it's the best driving game ever X)
I mentioned that currently to me on consoles ( ignoring PS4 & XBone ) it's the best simulator to me.
In 2005 there is one game which i think as a true rival to GT which was Enthusia Professional Racing.
I loved that game but in controller it's a living hell for driving but physics wise are excellent
Music is crazy - but the game is not as fun as GT6 to me X)
Not to mention it's unfair to match GT6 to a 2005 game.
GT4 would be more fun than EPR.

Conclusion from the previous replies :
My goodness - this is turning into chaos on me just when i opened my mouth about GT6.
It's like i put my face infront of the cannon hole.

rFactor's physics engine (ISImotor) have existed since 2005 and all of its derivative games curbstomps over GT6 (and I bet GTS) physics engine. Look at the full list here: http://web.archive.org/web/20161122054159/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISImotor

There's also LFS (http://lfs.net/), which is even better than ISImotor and I'd say on par with Assetto physics in some cases. Also released in 2003.

And no, your argument of comparing console to PC is unfair does not hold candle. Even if we take away modding, these old games are still superior to GT6/S in every way except graphics and vanilla car/track list. Better physics, better sounds, better career, better AI and just overall better simulator. And they did this with machine specs that are way less powerful than PS4/XB1. Heck, I got half of those ISImotor games running on a Vista laptop from 2008 So if anything, it's unfair to compare because GT games have a MASSIVE technological advantage - but for some reason PD is still unable to take advantage of it.

If you still want to compare on consoles though - PCARS and AC are now also on consoles and they still curbstomps GT6/S in physics/sounds/career/AI departments. Really mate, you feel like you're in front of a cannon, that's because you're defending the undefensible here

Anyway, I'm done here. If you're still around GTPlanet in 5 years I'll link you back to this thread and we'll see if you have changed.

 

[apexpredator100]

As a simulator, GT6 is mediocre, and there are good amount of PC racing sims that provides a much more authentic and realistic experience physics-wise than GT6. As a game, GT6 is a decent offering featuring a large car roster, good selection of tracks, solid multiplayer, and a decent career mode compared to other current racing sims. While sims like AC and rF2 are miles ahead of GT6 in the physics department, sometimes I feel that they are lacking things that add to replayability of these games, with the consoles version of AC being the prime example.

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

rFactor's physics engine (ISImotor) have existed since 2005 and all of its derivative games curbstomps over GT6 (and I bet GTS) physics engine. Look at the full list here: http://web.archive.org/web/20161122054159/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISImotor

There's also LFS (http://lfs.net/), which is even better than ISImotor and I'd say on par with Assetto physics in some cases. Also released in 2003.

And no, your argument of comparing console to PC is unfair does not hold candle. Even if we take away modding, these old games are still superior to GT6/S in every way except graphics and vanilla car/track list. Better physics, better sounds, better career, better AI and just overall better simulator. And they did this with machine specs that are way less powerful than PS4/XB1. Heck, I got half of those ISImotor games running on a Vista laptop from 2008 So if anything, it's unfair to compare because GT games have a MASSIVE technological advantage - but for some reason PD is still unable to take advantage of it.

If you still want to compare on consoles though - PCARS and AC are now also on consoles and they still curbstomps GT6/S in physics/sounds/career/AI departments. Really mate, you feel like you're in front of a cannon, that's because you're defending the undefensible here

Anyway, I'm done here. If you're still around GTPlanet in 5 years I'll link you back to this thread and we'll see if you have changed.

There are a certain things which can't be changed from my previous statements when talking about GT series only :
1- GT6 is the best GT in physics even with it's flaws.
2- From my test it got the most challenging AI in GT series.
3- Improvement in night races sky simulation.
4- It's image rendering engine has made it even more realistic in graphical aspect.
5- More challenging career mode ( even with rolling starts ) due to it's performence restrictions & the AI's aggressive racing style since GT5 career mode was too easy compared to GT6.
After GTSport is released - we'll see about it's comparison with other simulators on consoles

 

[Imari]

About FH I saw it when my friends were playing it infront me - it's arcadish no matter how much i look at it.

Perhaps then you should stop looking at it and actually play it for a change. It's a good game.

Well - as long as GT6 has it's problems on an old hardware then it's irrelevant to compare it to a newer games on newer consoles.
When you compare it to the newer games on newer consoles - you're disconnecting the limits of the games.
It's like saying :
That guy can challenge this academic guy because he got top marks at high school.

What?

Please don't be so sure that GT will never be a great sim like other sims from your point of view until GTSport is released to compare it.

Fair enough. It's technically within the realm of possibility that GTS will be the best sim of all time.

But apart from the fact that it would be a massive jump for them considering all the other games that exist, I suspect that they won't do it because it would mean tanking the franchise. Ask Sony and Polyphony whether they'd rather have OK physics and 10 million sales or world's best physics and 500,000 sales and I'm pretty sure I know what they'd choose.

You'll notice on the front page that Assetto Corsa, a demonstrably excellent sim, has sold 1.4 million copies across three platforms. It has at best pretty average gameplay, but still. Full on sims just aren't that popular, because they're pretty hard. It's like a 4X, the more in-depth you make it the more niche it becomes.

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

Perhaps then you should stop looking at it and actually play it for a change. It's a good game.



What?



Fair enough. It's technically within the realm of possibility that GTS will be the best sim of all time.

But apart from the fact that it would be a massive jump for them considering all the other games that exist, I suspect that they won't do it because it would mean tanking the franchise. Ask Sony and Polyphony whether they'd rather have OK physics and 10 million sales or world's best physics and 500,000 sales and I'm pretty sure I know what they'd choose.

You'll notice on the front page that Assetto Corsa, a demonstrably excellent sim, has sold 1.4 million copies across three platforms. It has at best pretty average gameplay, but still. Full on sims just aren't that popular, because they're pretty hard. It's like a 4X, the more in-depth you make it the more niche it becomes.

I don't have to play it if it doesn't meet what i had in FM4 & i already mentioned the reasons before so i'll save my time to rewrite everything from scratch.
I already played FM6 and it was bad compared to FM4.
Just when the game have different package & different kind of racing doesn't make it a completely different game since it shares things from the same series.
It is like a spin off but with shared physics so FM6 was enough for me to hate the later Forza games after FM4.
About GT6 what i meant before was already answered by Slip which you've already "liked" in his post.
I remember when GTSport has hit maybe about 200% of something related to the pre-orders but got cancelled.
Even with that it is still counted that there are many people who would expect something nice from it which we all hope for

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I don't have to play it if it doesn't meet what i had in FM4 & i already mentioned the reasons before so i'll save my time to rewrite everything from scratch.
I already played FM6 and it was bad compared to FM4.
Just when the game have different package & different kind of racing doesn't make it a completely different game since it shares things from the same series.
It is like a spin off but with shared physics so FM6 was enough for me to hate the later Forza games after FM4.
About GT6 what i meant before was already answered by Slip which you've already "liked" in his post.
I remember when GTSport has hit maybe about 200% of something related to the pre-orders but got cancelled.
Even with that it is still counted that there are many people who would expect something nice from it which we all hope for

You said earlier that Forza Horizon is more like NFS, which is laughable and the people most likely to say this are the ones who have never played it. Horizon is in a class by itself and no recent NFS game can hold a candle to it in terms of realism and quality. Try actually giving it a chance instead of accepting it at face value. At least play the first Horizon if you can since it's based on FM4, which you hold in such high regard.

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

You said earlier that Forza Horizon is more like NFS, which is laughable and the people most likely to say this are the ones who have never played it. Horizon is in a class by itself and no recent NFS game can hold a candle to it in terms of realism and quality. Try actually giving it a chance instead of accepting it at face value. At least play the first Horizon if you can since it's based on FM4, which you hold in such high regard.

I think i wasn't clear enough.
I said it doesn't have the things i got in FM4 by more cars & more tracks.
I want the game to be more focused on race tracks rather than driving on the road like it happens in NFS.
It's not in the style that i preferred in FM4.
Even if it shares it's physics i don't have to pay for a game which doesn't have as much cars & tracks as in FM4 ( about 600 cars )
I want to feel more as a race driver - not a street racer.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

There are a certain things which can't be changed from my previous statements when talking about GT series only :
1- GT6 is the best GT in physics even with it's flaws.
2- From my test it got the most challenging AI in GT series.
3- Improvement in night races sky simulation.
4- It's image rendering engine has made it even more realistic in graphical aspect.
5- More challenging career mode ( even with rolling starts ) due to it's performence restrictions & the AI's aggressive racing style since GT5 career mode was too easy compared to GT6.
After GTSport is released - we'll see about it's comparison with other simulators on consoles

This isn't in any way a relevant answer to my post, but I'll answer yours anyway.

1- Overall driving feel I agree GT6 is the best (but still crap comparing to other better sims). However, even GT1 properly simulated aero drag at high speeds, which GT6 doesn't. Also GT1 simulated turbo lag, which GT6 doesn't. Some tuning idiosyncrasies in GT6 have been present for almost the whole of GT series lifetimes (reversed ride height, wrong camber, simplified LSD), and PD isn't showing any signs of wanting to rectify them. Rubbish.

2- No mate, not by a long shot. Try the Normal Car Cup in GT1 and come back to me. If anything, AI in GT series have progressively gotten easier.

3- If you mean the star positioning, yes I agree. Doesn't really contribute much to a sim though and just shows you how out of touch PD's priorities are.

4- Personally I find GT5 image rendering to be crisper and have better draw distances, but GT6 engine is more "foolproof" for the future and we should see the full capabilities in GTS. But anyhow, GT has always been great in graphics, I've never disputed that. Again, doesn't necessarily make it a better sim.

5- Not really. Even with performance restrictions it's still wayyy too easy to overpower the AI. The only events that are hard in GT6 are Ayrton Senna and Sierra TT, and they are both time trials, not racing against AI. GT1 had more aggressive AI, GT3 had the fiendishly difficult (and long) Formula GT Championship, GT5 also had a similarly difficult FGT Championship, Vettel Challenges and Grand Tour Eiger/Toscana race. What does GT6 have? Even the Vettel Challenges in GT6 is a joke compared to GT5.

You can wait for GTS, but I have played the demo in GT Academy event last year, and besides graphics there is really not much change from GT6. Physics are 95% the same, FFB is even worse, AI are still numbskulls and sounds have improved ever so slightly. Oh, and there's even less content cars/tracks wise and career mode is literally a hyped up license test. Good luck competing against Forza 7, PCARS 2, AC 2, etc

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

This isn't in any way a relevant answer to my post, but I'll answer yours anyway.

1- Overall driving feel I agree GT6 is the best (but still crap comparing to other better sims). However, even GT1 properly simulated aero drag at high speeds, which GT6 doesn't. Also GT1 simulated turbo lag, which GT6 doesn't. Some tuning idiosyncrasies in GT6 have been present for almost the whole of GT series lifetimes (reversed ride height, wrong camber, simplified LSD), and PD isn't showing any signs of wanting to rectify them. Rubbish.

2- No mate, not by a long shot. Try the Normal Car Cup in GT1 and come back to me. If anything, AI in GT series have progressively gotten easier.

3- If you mean the star positioning, yes I agree. Doesn't really contribute much to a sim though and just shows you how out of touch PD's priorities are.

4- Personally I find GT5 image rendering to be crisper and have better draw distances, but GT6 engine is more "foolproof" for the future and we should see the full capabilities in GTS. But anyhow, GT has always been great in graphics, I've never disputed that. Again, doesn't necessarily make it a better sim.

5- Not really. Even with performance restrictions it's still wayyy too easy to overpower the AI. The only events that are hard in GT6 are Ayrton Senna and Sierra TT, and they are both time trials, not racing against AI. GT1 had more aggressive AI, GT3 had the fiendishly difficult (and long) Formula GT Championship, GT5 also had a similarly difficult FGT Championship, Vettel Challenges and Grand Tour Eiger/Toscana race. What does GT6 have? Even the Vettel Challenges in GT6 is a joke compared to GT5.

You can wait for GTS, but I have played the demo in GT Academy event last year, and besides graphics there is really not much change from GT6. Physics are 95% the same, FFB is even worse, AI are still numbskulls and sounds have improved ever so slightly. Oh, and there's even less content cars/tracks wise and career mode is literally a hyped up license test. Good luck competing against Forza 7, PCARS 2, AC 2, etc

Actually my reply does have connection to your previous reply
You've mentioned ( better physics - better sounds & better career ) so it does have relation.
About AI - i think i shouldn't believe what i read because i tested it myself so i won't change my opinion.
Ok since you agreed that GT6 is the best GT in simulation then that's enough to me.
About star positioning - even so - it's still an improvement compared to GT5.
When i talked about graphics i compared it to GT5 not other games & i never said it'll make it a better sim but i said more realistic in graphical aspect.
"Way too easy to overpower AI" i can't believe that statement because i tried to challenge it myself in maybe something like GT All Stars in that spanish course on ( i think maybe called Ascari )
Well you tried the demo & your opinion is still based on the demo, but after the game is released then we'll see

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I didn't understand ... by "ahead" in which way ?

Edit : wait i think i got it now.
You mean there is a chance for it to be unfair since it's not in PS4 ?
If you mean that then yes

No. What I'm saying is that you continually re-establish the parameters of comparisons to make sure GT6 is in a favourable light. Can't compare it to PC games (even ones that came out years before). Can't compare it to current-gen games (even though GT6 was released after the new generation).

It's worth noting this: nobody is saying you shouldn't like GT6. I get it: GT's 1 through 4 were my favourite racing games at those times, warts and all. For every person, there is a different set of expectations and requirements for what makes a game "best" for them. FM4 was a high-water mark for me last-gen, but it still had some pretty glaring flaws. It just did more of what I liked, more of the time, than other games.

Also, I think it needs to be said: GT6 having the best physics in the series should not be considered a huge achievement, but the bare minimum. One would hope the physics get better as the franchise progresses.

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

No. What I'm saying is that you continually re-establish the parameters of comparisons to make sure GT6 is in a favourable light. Can't compare it to PC games (even ones that came out years before). Can't compare it to current-gen games (even though GT6 was released after the new generation).

It's worth noting this: nobody is saying you shouldn't like GT6. I get it: GT's 1 through 4 were my favourite racing games at those times, warts and all. For every person, there is a different set of expectations and requirements for what makes a game "best" for them. FM4 was a high-water mark for me last-gen, but it still had some pretty glaring flaws. It just did more of what I liked, more of the time, than other games.

Also, I think it needs to be said: GT6 having the best physics in the series should not be considered a huge achievement, but the bare minimum. One would hope the physics get better as the franchise progresses.

Yes because PC can give you a better chance to use cutting edge physics earlier than consoles & counting also that PS3 hardware was a nightmare as KAZ stated which can slow the game progress - is just what made me convinced to say that it's unfair.
Also yes - since it is released on older gen after newer consoles - GT6 is stuck in the PS3 limits & mentioning again - hardware nightmarish programming as KAZ stated.
About FM4 same here on a certain aspects where GT6 lacked
Well i never said it is a "huge" achievement but i said that it is the best GT in physics X)

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Actually my reply does have connection to your previous reply
You've mentioned ( better physics - better sounds & better career ) so it does have relation.
About AI - i think i shouldn't believe what i read because i tested it myself so i won't change my opinion.
Ok since you agreed that GT6 is the best GT in simulation then that's enough to me.
About star positioning - even so - it's still an improvement compared to GT5.
When i talked about graphics i compared it to GT5 not other games & i never said it'll make it a better sim but i said more realistic in graphical aspect.
"Way too easy to overpower AI" i can't believe that statement because i tried to challenge it myself in maybe something like GT All Stars in that spanish course on ( i think maybe called Ascari )
Well you tried the demo & your opinion is still based on the demo, but after the game is released then we'll see

I don't know how you tested the AI - either you are a very bad driver, or you entered a VW Beetle in GT All Stars But the general consensus is GT6 AI is still very bad. Opinion is opinion, but when majority believes something it's usually the truer one. And unless you have tried playing GT1, don't argue with me on this. I played GT1 for 5 years so I know how hard it was.

Agreed GT6 is best overall physics, but each individual components are still worse compared to previous games. I don't know how you can call that an achievement when other devs with less resources have gotten it right for 10+ years ago.

Again to reiterate - graphics does not make a sim. Unless your hobby is photomode more than driving. Until you let go of your fixation on graphics, you will not be able to evaluate sims properly.

You don't even remember the name of the track you have a difficulty on - shows you how much you have practice on that track and how much you understand the game. How am I supposed to take your opinions seriously?

Of course, demo is only a demo. But I bet my membership here that the physics in the final product won't be much different

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

I don't know how you tested the AI - either you are a very bad driver, or you entered a VW Beetle in GT All Stars But the general consensus is GT6 AI is still very bad. Opinion is opinion, but when majority believes something it's usually the truer one. And unless you have tried playing GT1, don't argue with me on this. I played GT1 for 5 years so I know how hard it was.

Agreed GT6 is best overall physics, but each individual components are still worse compared to previous games. I don't know how you can call that an achievement when other devs with less resources have gotten it right for 10+ years ago.

Again to reiterate - graphics does not make a sim. Unless your hobby is photomode more than driving. Until you let go of your fixation on graphics, you will not be able to evaluate sims properly.

You don't even remember the name of the track you have a difficulty on - shows you how much you have practice on that track and how much you understand the game. How am I supposed to take your opinions seriously?

Of course, demo is only a demo. But I bet my membership here that the physics in the final product won't be much different

I cleared both GT5 & GT6 All gold on all licenses.
And set a time record at top 50 in a certain GT Academy Challenge which was a GT6 demo which was with Nissan Z370 Nismo on Silverstone circuit.
Also set record at top 50 ( if i remember correctly ) for an SLS challenge on Top Gear for GT5 before.
Don't worry - i know how to drive
And again - when i mentioned graphic it wasn't as to make it a better sim but better in graphical aspect which i repeated it for the 3rd time now.
Actually i remembered the track which i had a difficulty against AI then posted it between 2 bows ( Ascari ) in a previous reply.
Alright - we'll see when it is released

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I cleared both GT5 & GT6 All gold on all licenses.
And set a time record at top 50 in a certain GT Academy Challenge which was a GT6 demo which was with Nissan Z370 Nismo on Silverstone circuit.
Also set record at top 50 ( if i remember correctly ) for an SLS challenge on Top Gear for GT5 before.
Don't worry - i know how to drive
And again - when i mentioned graphic it wasn't as to make it a better sim but better in graphical aspect which i repeated it for the 3rd time now.
Actually i remembered the track which i had a difficulty against AI then posted it between 2 bows ( Ascari ) in a previous reply.
Alright - we'll see when it is released

GT5 & 6 golds aren't that hard to get tbh. I cleared all in 2-3 tries max. If you do get all golds, I don't see a reason why you're having trouble with AI. Unless you're entering races with 100hp less and Comfort tyres.

GT Academy positions can vary in countries with not a lot of participants. The worldwide leaderboard and gap to top time is a more accurate measure. Again, if you really are a top 50 driver in a competitive country (within 2-3 secs off top times), you shouldn't consider GT6 AI hard at all. Something in your story just doesn't match up.

 

[Imari]

Also set record at top 50 ( if i remember correctly ) for an SLS challenge on Top Gear for GT5 before.

Top 50 in Kuwait? There's 4 million people. Perhaps the competition isn't quite as tough as you think it is...

I'm with @LeGeNd-1, if you were that good you'd be destroying the GT6 AI. I'm nowhere near top 50 in AU and I think the AI is a joke.

 

[GTP Mario]

Possibly my first ever racing game and still one my favourites came out about 2-3 months before this - F1 1997. The Walker/Brundle commentary made it for me, as well as realistic things like mechanical failures, which were ultra realstic too - since my Jordan caught fire after 3 laps at Monza...

After this I'd say Gran Turismo 3 and 4, as these started my proper passion for racing games. There was just that special something about playing these two games, especially GT3 with the ultra mad 001/2 cars (those were all we had PD-wise in the EU), and tracks like SSR10 and Rome Circuit were especially fun.

GT5 despite its drawback still retained its charm, whilst GT6 didn't for me. There was still something about GT5, mostly the animations for cars and things you could do with them, the menu music and getting to thrash around a Ferrari F2007, possibly my favourite car in the game.

Onwards to my Xbox days, and Forza 4 still takes that title for me. Another series that never quite lived up to itself after a point when they ditched all features in the pursuit of beauty, but has since begun reclaiming a few of those features with FH3, poinng to good signs ahead of the seventh Motorsport title this year. FM4 does it for me thanks to the sheer amount of content, the physics and the visuals, which were stunning for the time on that console, and to this day I wish they'd release it on XOne Backwards compatibilty. Some day, Microsoft, please...

and that concludes my list Also shoutout to Test Drive: Le Mans, TDU2, and MarioKart Wii (We all played it, after all!)

 

[GTP Mario]

GT6 and a another Gen7 game you say? Forza 4 it is then.

Paints - FM4 all day
Upgrades - Again, a lot more you could do on Forza.
Tracks and Cars - GT6 has it beat, but the number pre-PS3 era models is appalling. And the number of Nissan GT-Rs. Tracks, they seem to hold up well for GT6.
Social - Forza. Every. Day. Club sytem is better, can share paints and tunes, gift them, gift cars, sell cars in online auctions etc. - easy win.
DLC - this goes to GT6, sdue to the sheer amount of content Forza added to money grab.
Physics - Forza felt better IMO despite being slightly more arcadey in some of the settings. However, for realism it would go to GT6.

Overall - close, but Forza 4 takes it for me. Slightly less to see, but a lot more to do.

Sim racing - Gran Turismo probably takes this thanks to driving feel and options. If you just want the most accurate racing, yes.

Again, a tough call since I liked both games, but haven't played either in ages since I migrated to FM6 (Reign superior it will till the end of the year).

 

[JakeMR2]

Paints - FM4 all day
Upgrades - Again, a lot more you could do on Forza.
Tracks and Cars - GT6 has it beat, but the number pre-PS3 era models is appalling. And the number of Nissan GT-Rs. Tracks, they seem to hold up well for GT6.
Social - Forza. Every. Day. Club sytem is better, can share paints and tunes, gift them, gift cars, sell cars in online auctions etc. - easy win.

I do agree with this, I recently got a Xbox 360 a little while ago, and those are pretty good reasons as to why Forza has the better community aspect.

I do like both games as well, but GT just lacks what a racer would be today. I like making my own vinyl groups for many reasons, and I realize how advanced the FM4 paint system is. GT: Sport is going for the same route if I remember correctly, but I believe they are actually trying to compete against Turn 10 in terms of the community and vinyl department. Though, the only concern is that they did not show a vinyl group editor which makes things easier to use.

After playing Forza 4 and 2, some cars in GT do not appear in many of the games Polyphony produced. For example, the ME-Four Twelve, Top Gear's cheap Suzuki car, Porsche (last seen in FM2). I can't name anything else. But, I know it's a lot.

 

[ZEROTHEKNIGHT]

Top 50 in Kuwait? There's 4 million people. Perhaps the competition isn't quite as tough as you think it is...

I'm with @LeGeNd-1, if you were that good you'd be destroying the GT6 AI. I'm nowhere near top 50 in AU and I think the AI is a joke.

No - top 50 in that challenge official time in GT6 ( that record was in japan standard because i achieved it in a japanese account ) not in kuwait.
Yes i can destroy the AI & i already did but i find it challenging compared to GT5.
I mentioned one circuit ( Ascari ) which AI put a real challenge on me.
Second about Gold Trophies - i mentioned them as an example that i know how to drive & i used a matching car to the near event limit.

Notice : seriously just how long are we gonna keep this debate ?
It's my opinion about the AI.
If my opinion isn't convincing then let's just call it a day & rest our minds rather than keeping it this long.
To be honest - if i knew it'll take this long i wouldn't even mentioned my opinion in the first place.
It's really my fault for talking about GT6 - i wish i never did.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Well you have a weird definition of "challenging" if you're destroying them but still finds it more difficult than GT5 But anyway, as you said there is no end to this discussion so let's end it here