Gran Turismo's Future: "4K Resolution is Enough", But 240fps is the Target

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 7' started by GTPNewsWire, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. Griffith500

    Griffith500

    Messages:
    8,631
    What is a GT Sport "racer" if not a Pro Am driver with no money?
     
    CTznOfTime and Lord Protector like this.
  2. xBSxChadSpeed

    xBSxChadSpeed

    Messages:
    94
    I’m cool with 120, since most modern TVs top out at 120hz refresh. 4K is enough as well, and I love the HDR, much more useful than the 4K. Smoothness of Rez is good direction though.
     
    CTznOfTime likes this.
  3. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

    Messages:
    3,499
    I believe most "120hz" TVs... (called "Flow Motion" or whatever buzzword) do not actually support a true 120hz.

    They interpolate 60hz into 120hz.

    You can test this by hooking up a PC and trying to force it to 120hz. It wont work.

    This is one of my points... I dont believe we can actually buy TVs that support true 120hz.

    Monitors yes. TVs no.
     
    Shingo_civic and CTznOfTime like this.
  4. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

    Messages:
    5,488
    Location:
    Canada
    Because it's fun and there's an interest in it, for example:
    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/multi-class-endurance-catalunya-03-11-2019.390153/

    I've done multi-class races on Sarthe and Nurburgring as well, however the 16 player lobby limit makes it kinda dull. It makes endurance races more dynamic with more encounters and opportunities to catch and get away.

    There's no need for tire wear or fuel use in digital racing, so why add it?
     
    CTznOfTime likes this.
  5. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    4,339
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Some high-end expensive TV models have a true 120Hz panel. I have Samsung 55"Q7NF that works on my PC with 1920x1080/120Hz, 4K is 60Hz. For 4K/120Hz you need TV with HDMI 2.1
     
    Lord Protector and PirovacBoy like this.
  6. Scuderia Paul

    Scuderia Paul

    Messages:
    5,561
    Location:
    Ireland
    Maybe they should first aim for 4K60 with dynamic time and weather, higher resolution in-race custom liveries and cars which get dirty.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  7. Griffith500

    Griffith500

    Messages:
    8,631
    Depending on the CPU overhead, this would translate to oversampled 1080p at an easy 120 Hz.
     
  8. TBR 427

    TBR 427

    Messages:
    489
    I'm not saying it doesn't add an element of challenge to the race; navigating the lower-class cars is 100% something that takes effort, and some faith and luck.

    To add to that point, the player limit has effectively double the effect vs lap distance (basically, the cars-per-meter) if there's multiple classes. You're talking about the 'encounter rate' for cars.
    If you've got 8 Gr1 and 8 Gr3 cars you shouldn't be anywhere near the longer tracks.

    With some rounding, Le Mans has 10 LMP1, 20 LMP2 and 30 GT3 cars on a 13.5km track.

    That example, Barcelona, is 4.5km. Scaled down, that's ~6 LMP2 cars and 10 GT3 cars, roughly the top/bottom class split in your example (by luck or skill, not sure). Ignoring LMP1 because they split up and do their own thing most of the time.

    If you were to do La Sarthe with 16 players, that's literally a third of the cars you'd see on-track at any time. Encounters only happening 30% as often, 300% more space between vehicles. At Nurburgring, that's even worse; encounters 20% as often and 450% space between vehicles!


    TL;DR


    Long story short: rule 1 for creating competition is to increase the number of competitive entrants. It makes the field tighter, and less susceptible to irregular results.

    We've all seen this with the Formula 1 and Formula 1.5 series over the last few years.

    If you've got a limited field number (ie number of pit boxes, minimum safe area on track per car (a real thing), or any other reason, the better solution is to add more cars to one class, not add more classes.

    And those limits are what it's always going to come down to. Both in real life (above reasons) and virtually (rendering and/or network bottlenecks).

    This is actually easy to answer - by giving racers a limited availability of energy (in the form of fuel) or tire life, or anything really, that opens up significant strategy options while keeping the maximum number of cars relatively close, or imminently close. This also promotes overtaking between competing vehicles, rewards precision and discipline, and raises the skill ceiling.

    This is something that would readily be added artificially (and somewhat still is, ie the Boost button on SuperFormula), except there's usually a natural solution that exists already.

    Admittedly there are times when real series take it too far and blow things out artificially, just like there are times when people just aren't able to adjust to change, regardless of the merits or any objective measures. Pirelli's F1 department probably knows this too well.
     
    CTznOfTime and Sven Jurgens like this.
  9. DioEmsti

    DioEmsti

    Messages:
    48
    Seems like an excuse to make the game a lot less impressive than it can be on PS5. Almost nobody needs 240fps lol and how many got 4k TVs? even If everyone had them, resolution alone doesn't make a game look fantastic, you can upscale GT1 to 64k 480fps, it's still gonna look like complete ass compared to any modern racing game.
     
    snc and Shingo_civic like this.
  10. rhalgr

    rhalgr

    Messages:
    285
    @DioEmsti
    Gameplay > graphics. I wouldn't take his words to literally for GT on PS5. He talked about the future in general iirc. I expect GT on PS5 to run with 60FPS and VR Mode with 120. 240 would be overkill, considering the PS5 hardware rumours. Maybe with PS6-8.
     
    CTznOfTime, TokoTurismo and Animedeaf like this.
  11. AlanH49

    AlanH49

    Messages:
    783
    AMD exec here confirming hardware Ray Tracing and RDNA for PS5.

     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  12. DoctorNuu

    DoctorNuu (Banned)

    Messages:
    195
    The only upside I see in announcing 240Hz rather than 120Hz is this:
    If you don't make it, you will be able to blame it on the TV market in 2021 not offering 240Hz

    IMHO, 120Hz should be the new standard. With close to no LAG (i.e. an appropriate game mode for TVs)
    Everything beyond 120Hz seems to be for insects, not the human eye.
    4k should also be standard, with 8k obviously desirable for really big screens and VR.
     
    CTznOfTime likes this.
  13. Azerach

    Azerach

    Messages:
    243
    Shingo_civic and Lord Protector like this.
  14. andrewhake

    andrewhake

    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    United States
    With all of these PS4 exclusive titles now coming to PC I am really curious if we will ever get a PC version of GT Sport or another GT title? I would have always assumed no but after seeing that Death Stranding is coming to PC maybe that has opened up for all of these studios. GT Sport could be really amazing on higher end hardware. It is already one of the best looking sim titles on the market, would be amazing to see what they can do with more hardware.
     
  15. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

    Messages:
    10,737
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    My 2070 super at 4K gets a minimum 120 fps and maximum of 240 in FH4. I've set it to 60 due to the TV my PC is plugged into. FM7 is significantly harder to drive at 4K but a 60 lock is possible.

    The new Xbox should exceed my system not sure about the PS5 though. Not unless the two system rumour is correct anyway. I can't see 9 TF doing it.
     
  16. danh25

    danh25

    Messages:
    451
    DS is not a sony game and the kojima team is not a sony first party.
    DS only had a timed exclusive on ps4, the pc version had already been announced when they announced the game.
    the only sony title that will be cross-platform is MBA, just to not lose the license.
     
    Landy1264 likes this.
  17. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Slovakia
    CTznOfTime, Azerach and super_gt like this.
  18. DoctorNuu

    DoctorNuu (Banned)

    Messages:
    195
    The input lag is pretty important, I agree.
    But on the software side, it only depends on:
    • The rate at which the pad or wheel inputs are polled/processed.
      (The physics engine could run at 12000Hz and still only use new input every 60Hz)
    • The time the graphics output lags behind the physics. Usually one frame with double buffering
    The important hardware part is to have a fast display.
    I'm not sure how they works, but probably there is at least one more buffering step, which is unnecessary in principle.
     
  19. ThruxtonGT

    ThruxtonGT

    Messages:
    142
    Pretty sure the next GT will be targeting 120FPS 4K. I think his comments about 240FPS are meant as an incremental step beyond next gen targeting 120FPS.
     
    FoRiZon likes this.
  20. snc

    snc

    Messages:
    54
    120fps 4k means graphic will be on gt sport level
     
  21. FoRiZon

    FoRiZon

    Messages:
    8,590
    Not really. GTSport is 4k 60FPS and even that it minus the Replay.
     
  22. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

    Messages:
    5,488
    Location:
    Canada
    Not quite, high resolution mode on ps4 pro is a checker boarded 1800p presentation with static lighting. Going to native 4K, 120fps and dynamic lighting, fidelity will stay on GT Sport level. Faster loading times will be the best improvement.
     
    NosOsH, CTznOfTime and Shingo_civic like this.
  23. snc

    snc

    Messages:
    54
    it's 1800p
     
  24. Castrol96

    Castrol96

    Messages:
    2,790
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Checkerboarded
     
  25. zzz_pt

    zzz_pt

    Messages:
    8,001
    Location:
    Germany
    I'll be happy with native 4K 60, if with that we get dynamic tod and weather
     
  26. Doomotron

    Doomotron

    Messages:
    941
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    When Kaz says 4K at 240fps, he actually means 32K at 25fps.

    @Jordan can we have a PDLogic™ emoji please?
     
    Landy1264, zzz_pt and Imari like this.
  27. Inferno251

    Inferno251

    Messages:
    2,127
    Location:
    Australia
    I remember back in 2008 when a tech demo showcased GT5 Prologue at 4K 240fps using four PS3's. Maybe this is a long-term goal possibly realised?
     
  28. Shingo_civic

    Shingo_civic

    Messages:
    301
    I hope on the next gen they refine these upscaling techniques up to the level of dlss 2.0 of Nvidia. If they manage to do that,they can run the game at half of the 4k resolution while having the same sharpnes of native 4k,in this manner they can save a lot of power for other things such as raytracing,more objects on the screen etc.
     
    CTznOfTime and Doomotron like this.
  29. PaMu1337

    PaMu1337

    Messages:
    2,392
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Note that it was not 4K240, but separately in 4K, and in 240FPS (not 4K)
     
  30. Aloha62_2

    Aloha62_2

    Messages:
    1,032
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Would be perfectly happy with 60fps at 1080p if the extra power went into larger fields, better physics and dynamic weather.

    Dull at 5000fps is still dull.