Grand Valley Review - From a long term fan

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NJ72

NJ72

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Cotswolds, UK
doc-shipman
So, having given both versions a bit of a shakedown as a long time fan with many many hours spent on the old GVS I thought I'd type up my views for discussion.

Firstly, I actually really like the track, but it doesn't feel like the GVS of old unfortunately. It feels like a track that has been re-designed for no other reason than the provide some eye-candy for the PSVR2 buyers.

It has all the ingredients for a great track, much like their other original circuits, and will take a long time to master across road and race cars; but the overwhelming feeling is that it would have been better to just have made a new track in this setting. It seems to me to suit road cars and Gr.4; Gr.3 and above - certainly on the South course - feel a bit much.

It's a gorgeously pretty track, no doubt, and the tunnels and vistas look great without PSVR, so I suspect they'll look amazing in that too. I did find myself recognising some corners as I went, but in that uncomfortable uncanny valley way, rather than the nostalgic way Trial Mountain or Deep Forest manage.

It just keeps throwing my back to "why change it so much?" as GVS was, for me at least, the most well rounded original circuit in the games. And the only answer I can find is PSVR...

I'm not whining, as it's really a great track pair and I really enjoyed driving it, but feel as though calling it Grand Valley and making it that layout specifically closes a door that I know won't ever be opened - the GVS I knew and loved won't make a return.
 
Totally agree with your assessment. Great track and there are some minor feelings of the classic GVS, but to me it’s too far removed to be the direct successor! Would have been better if they brought it to the game under a completely different name!
 
I agree, I booted up GT7 for the first time this year and had a few races before work, it's a decent enough track but doesn't feel at all like Grand Valley of old. It feels far less like the old track than the remodelled Trial Mountain and Deep Forest do and they've been significantly changed for better or worse.

The problem I have is regarding the layouts of these remodelled classic circuits is that they just seem obsessed with stretching them to make them longer. That doesn't equal making a track better unfortuantely. this one goes further than that though and changes a lot more.

They aren't bad tracks, this one included, the problem is calling it Grand Valley gets players excited to race on, well Grand Valley, and they get something in name only with a layout that has vague similarity. So the question then has to be, is it better than the original?

That's hard to answer completely honestly because of nostalgia, but I do think the original was a better circuit even if I'm being as objective as I can be. But they are so different in feel and layout, it's hard to compare properly. The original was a purpose built race track, this is a crcuit made from public roads. It is a beautiful track and take away the comparaison and it's still a decent track, it's just not the Grand Valley the old timers know.
 
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Steer
I cant really remember the original in any detail. Was this on GT2, GT4 or the PSP version? Anyway, it has some interesting sections.

What I really want back is the old El Capitan track.
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And do something horrible to it? No thanks. I'd much rather they stuck to real world race tracks.

And yes. The track is in the games you mentioned.
 
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Dave A
The problem I have is regarding the layours of these remodelled classic circuits is that they just seem obsessed with strethcing them to make them longer. That doesn't equal making a track better unfortuantely. this one goes further than that though and changes a lot more.

They aren't bad tracks, this one included, the problem is calling it Grand Valley gets players excited to race on, well Grand Valley, and they get something in name only with a layout that has vague similarity.
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Hitting the nail on the head right here, this is exactly how I feel about any of the three remastered OG tracks we've gotten so far.

EDIT: Forgot about the fourth one, High Speed Ring. That one they didn't mess up at least :D
 
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Dave A
I agree, I booted up GT7 for the first time this year and had a few races before work, it's a decent enough track but doesn't feel at all like Grand Valley of old. It feels far less like the old track than the remodelled Trial Mountain and Deep Forest do and they've been significantly changed for better or worse.

The problem I have is regarding the layours of these remodelled classic circuits is that they just seem obsessed with strethcing them to make them longer. That doesn't equal making a track better unfortuantely. this one goes further than that though and changes a lot more.

They aren't bad tracks, this one included, the problem is calling it Grand Valley gets players excited to race on, well Grand Valley, and they get something in name only with a layout that has vague similarity. So the question then has to be, is it better than the original?

That's hard to answer completely honestly because of nostalgia, but I do think the original was a better circuit even if I'm being as objective as I can be. But they are so different in feel and layout, it's hard to compare properly. The original was a purpose built race track, this is a crcuit made from public roads. It is a beautiful track and take away the comparaison and it's still a decent track, it's just not the Grand Valley the old timers know.
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This describes how I feel quite well. I don't mind the length, though.

I just can't get past the fact that it's a great track in its own right and I had a lot of fun taking out some mid-low powered road cars for a few laps, exactly as I used to on the original GVS, but I can't get in the groove in the same way I did.

In short they've taken a race track and turned it in to a mountain highway. I would happily have both in the game, as there aren't many road circuits like that currently, but to remove the spectacle of GVS seems to take the sheen off of it, unnecessarily...

As said, I'm not complaining about having a new, fun track - that is 100% what it is - but it's not Grand Valley for me. Interestingly the short course feels more like GV than the long one... Go figure.
 
NJ72
This describes how I feel quite well. I don't mind the length, though.
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I'm not bothered by longer tracks either, it's just that making a track longer by itself doesn't make it better in my opinion. Take Trial Mountain for example, with the new version in GT7 they've made the straights longer and the final S bend tighter, and that's not worked in it's favour over the original IMO. But I really enjoy Spa and the Nordschleife, both of which are longer tracks.

It's how it all flows together and this new track drives well enough as a mountain road rather than a race circuit, but as we've both said, it doesn't feel at all like Grand Valley. So why not just create a new original circuit based on Highway 1 instead of incorporate Highway 1 into Grand Valley?

One thing I think GT7 does need is more shorter, technical circuits for lower to mid powered cars.
 
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RedRockValley
GTPlanet just released a tour :) @MidnightRun85 (sorry, forgot to quote!)
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Nice one, thanks! Looks like an interesting circuit, but nothing like what I remember. So I can echo the sentiments of @NJ72 and @Islaygaz. Looks like they've taken the core layout and embellished it for a VR extravanganza, instead of focussing on the elements that made the original such an icon. I don't see this version going down as one of the greats.
 
MidnightRun85
Nice one, thanks! Looks like an interesting circuit, but nothing like what I remember. So I can echo the sentiments of @NJ72 and @Islaygaz. Looks like they've taken the core layout and embellished it for a VR extravanganza, instead of focussing on the elements that made the original such an icon. I don't see this version going down as one of the greats.
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I think we'll have to give it time. Of course, after years of driving the OG circuit, our brains are naturally going to be much more used to that one.

In my opinion, this will become one of those circuits that if it isn't included in GT8, people will definitely be begging for it to come back.
 
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BrunusCL82
The feeling is that Forza's racetrack designer was hired by PD.
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In what sense? Iirc the only OG track that left Forza Motorsport and then came back later was Maple Valley, and that track more than retained its character when it came back. So that's 1-0 to Forza in that regard because Grand Valley has changed for the worse.
 
NJ72
I agree - as I've said, it's a great circuit, with some great design and it's a nice twisty road course, but it's not Grand Valley in anything but name for me.
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I guess an interesting thought exercise could be what if Grand Valley Highway was the OG design, which was then replaced by Speedway in GT7?

You'd probably get a lot of people saying that they miss the beautiful California scenery and how it's just been turned into another generic racetrack, something along those lines...

This isn't me saying the OG circuit is a crappy design BTW, it isn't, it still rules - just saying how nostalgia can heavily affect our perception on things. :)
 
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RedRockValley
I guess an interesting thought exercise could be what if Grand Valley Highway was the OG design, which was then replaced by Speedway in GT7?

You'd probably get a lot of people saying that they miss the beautiful California scenery and how it's just been turned into another generic racetrack, something along those lines...

This isn't me saying the OG circuit is a crappy design BTW, it isn't, it still rules - just saying how nostalgia can heavily affect our perception on things. :)
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That's very true and an interesting comparison. I guess it comes back down to why change it (in either direction)?

I'm also not going to lie, the fact it feels like it's been changed because of PSVR irks me more than it should as well. It feels like PSVR has forced the change which now means we won't get the OG GVS back...

Interestingly, though, the release trailer has a "Grand Valley Speedway" gantry, but I didn't spot one whilst on the track...
 
RedRockValley
I guess an interesting thought exercise could be what if Grand Valley Highway was the OG design, which was then replaced by Speedway in GT7?

You'd probably get a lot of people saying that they miss the beautiful California scenery and how it's just been turned into another generic racetrack, something along those lines...

This isn't me saying the OG circuit is a crappy design BTW, it isn't, it still rules - just saying how nostalgia can heavily affect our perception on things. :)
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My counter argument is: why did they not produce the "OG" circuit as a revamp, making it as true to the original as possible, with alternative layouts which incorporate these new environments? That way, they would have kept the OG fans happy and provided a new environment which could have incorporated sections of the old into the new.

Maybe that's too much hard work though... ?
 
I’m looking forward to tying it as GV had a really good flow to it. I’ve also not played GT since GT4! I have mixed feelings about transplanting the layout to a completely new location but I’ll reserve judgement until I try it.

It does make me wonder what it would be like if Spa, Nurburgring or Le Mans for example were dropped into new locations. That would be weird!
 
24Lemons
I’m looking forward to tying it as GV had a really good flow to it. I’ve also not played GT since GT4! I have mixed feelings about transplanting the layout to a completely new location but I’ll reserve judgement until I try it.

It does make me wonder what it would be like if Spa, Nurburgring or Le Mans for example were dropped into new locations. That would be weird!
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It's more than that, though, as it's no longer a wide race track and now a narrow(er) highway which, even if it was a carbon copy with elevation changes etc. but with other scenery it would still be a different circuit.
 
NJ72
That's very true and an interesting comparison. I guess it comes back down to why change it (in either direction)?

I'm also not going to lie, the fact it feels like it's been changed because of PSVR irks me more than it should as well. It feels like PSVR has forced the change which now means we won't get the OG GVS back...

Interestingly, though, the release trailer has a "Grand Valley Speedway" gantry, but I didn't spot one whilst on the track...
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We'll probably never know unless a journalist asks Kaz directly. From what I can gather, the philosophy behind the OG track re-designs is placing them directly in the real world, rather than leaving us to vaguely guess where they might be.

PSVR could've definitely played a part, but I personally think Kaz just loved California's Route 1 and thought it would be a perfect candidate for Grand Valley's redesign. He's kooky like that!


MidnightRun85
My counter argument is: why did they not produce the "OG" circuit as a revamp, making it as true to the original as possible, with alternative layouts which incorporate these new environments? That way, they would have kept the OG fans happy and provided a new environment which could have incorporated sections of the old into the new.

Maybe that's too much hard work though... ?
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Could be many factors. Art direction, wanting something fresh... I do remember Kaz saying they had to basically most of the tracks from the ground-up because the original track models were just too ancient, so they've definitely been taking some creative liberties while rebuilding them.
 
Doesn't seem like Kaz gets "nostalgia". Seems like he thinks that as long as the overhead layout is similar it is the same. But it is not. It is the look and feel of the thing more then anything, at least for me. Trial Mountain for me was the GT3 version after the back straight tunnel with the overhanging trees, not a concrete ditch and pine trees. Deep Forrest lost its best corner in the new version.

This is what Grand Valley was and should still have been in my opinion:


Gran Valley in GT7 should just have been named something else. As it is it's a just a road with a start/finish line.
 
MagpieRacer
In what sense? Iirc the only OG track that left Forza Motorsport and then came back later was Maple Valley, and that track more than retained its character when it came back. So that's 1-0 to Forza in that regard because Grand Valley has changed for the worse.
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In the generic sense. Personally, I always felt the original Forza circuits were generic, unlike the GT quadrilogy. I always felt that the original circuits of the first four GTs had a lot of personality and that each corner was thought out intelligently and with a lot of identity.

Despite being beautiful due to its location, I feel that the new version of GVS is generic and lazy in terms of the structures of a racing circuit. The look is great, but the absence of kerbs, walls, run-offs, fences, bleachers, all very raw, disturbed my sense of reality.
 
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RedRockValley
Could be many factors. Art direction, wanting something fresh... I do remember Kaz saying they had to basically most of the tracks from the ground-up because the original track models were just too ancient, so they've definitely been taking some creative liberties while rebuilding them.
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I seem to remember Kaz referring to Deep Forest with curbs that were as wide as cars.
 
Nathan88
TBH, many of the old original circuits blend into one for me. I recognise the names, but for the life of me couldn’t pick them out! This new Grand Valley has a very distinct character & feel.

Very much needed.
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When I was younger I honestly never cared too much for these tracks, I was more obsessed with tracks like Seattle, Citta di Aria, Red Rock Valley (obviously)... Something about them just stuck out to me, very unique circuits.


EDIT: Of course, now I replay these games with much better driving skills, I appreciate these foresty OG tracks A LOT more, don't get me wrong!
 
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I really wanted some tight twisty track where could be possible enjoy road cars, road where car enthusiast drive on weekends, and this is better than I expected. So happy that we recived Grand Valley in this form.

I can only imagine how good it is with PSVR.
 

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