Greater Sense of Speed?

[TayeezSA]

I've been planning to post this for a while and today I decided to do so.

In light of the recent sayings by Kaz about the PS4's greater power and easier developing for PD, one thing stood out that brought this up in my eyes. Since everything will be running 'naturally' (Physics etc), will the Sense of Speed be greater than it is now? Not just sound wise but visually.

Maybe physics can dictate this I suppose. I mean check this for example:

Here's Matt Farah driving a Scion FRS on Willow Springs with a Bonnet Camera attached.


Now here is similar footage with Subaru BRZ this time in GT6 although this is a cockpit cam.


Even though the BRZ/FRS isn't the fastest car in the world, has anyone picked up that despite it being GoPro footage, the real life run looks to be a lot quicker than the GT6 footage? So ideally if things will run naturally on the PS4, could PD replicate the Sense of Speed we see in real life? Even if it's not perfect then can it be pretty close since it's something physics related? I know speed is always relative and all but this makes sense to me.

I've mentioned something similar to this here

What's your opinion on the matter?

 

[JKgo]

I was young back then but I seem to remember GT2 and GT3 having that "sense of speed". More so on GT2 then on GT3, btw. Methinks that was 'cuz either I forgot to wear my glasses or the graphics weren't so hot back in PSX era - thus everything looking blurry and so looking a bit faster then it is really. As graphics improve, sense of speed sort of dissapeared, at least for me.

 

[Tornado]

I was young back then but I seem to remember GT2 and GT3 having that "sense of speed". More so on GT2 then on GT3, btw. Methinks that was 'cuz either I forgot to wear my glasses or the graphics weren't so hot back in PSX era - thus everything looking blurry and so looking a bit faster then it is really. As graphics improve, sense of speed sort of dissapeared, at least for me.

What camera view did you use?

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I've been planning to post this for a while and today I decided to do so.

In light of the recent sayings by Kaz about the PS4's greater power and easier developing for PD, one thing stood out that brought this up in my eyes. Since everything will be running 'naturally' (Physics etc), will the Sense of Speed be greater than it is now? Not just sound wise but visually.

Maybe physics can dictate this I suppose. I mean check this for example:

Here's Matt Farah driving a Scion FRS on Willow Springs with a Bonnet Camera attached.


Now here is similar footage with Subaru BRZ this time in GT6 although this is a cockpit cam.


Even though the BRZ/FRS isn't the fastest car in the world, has anyone picked up that despite it being GoPro footage, the real life run looks to be a lot quicker than the GT6 footage? So ideally if things will run naturally on the PS4, could PD replicate the Sense of Speed we see in real life? Even if it's not perfect then can it be pretty close since it's something physics related? I know speed is always relative and all but this makes sense to me.

I've mentioned something similar to this here

What's your opinion on the matter?

I'm not sure I'd want a higher sense of speed. One of the things I like most about GT's driving is that it leaves you to build your own sense of speed, as opposed to other racing games that throw a crap-load of motion blur at you. That's basically like the game saying "ooo, you're going fast, you're going fast" in an effort to get you to believe it. It just comes off as fake. The only thing I'd like to see from GT in terms of sense of speed is maybe a little more instability at high speeds.

 

[JKgo]

What camera view did you use?

On GT2 I remember not knowing how to switch the camera so I stuck it out on bumper cam. No joke, really. Should've read the manual...I did figure out btw. So I used chase cam almost always. I like looking at cars I'm driving. Nowadays I alternate between chase cam and interior when available in GT6.

 

[Tornado]

That's probably why. The ultra rigid chase camera was introduced in GT4. The sensation of speed is still pared back a bit because the FOV is a bit odd in GT5 and up compared to previous games, but chase cam took a real whacking when they made it so it wasn't dynamic.

 

[TayeezSA]

I was young back then but I seem to remember GT2 and GT3 having that "sense of speed". More so on GT2 then on GT3, btw. Methinks that was 'cuz either I forgot to wear my glasses or the graphics weren't so hot back in PSX era - thus everything looking blurry and so looking a bit faster then it is really. As graphics improve, sense of speed sort of dissapeared, at least for me.

As graphics improve it should get better though. I'll pop in GT3 one of these days and feel the type of speed.

I'm not sure I'd want a higher sense of speed. One of the things I like most about GT's driving is that it leaves you to build your own sense of speed, as opposed to other racing games that throw a crap-load of motion blur at you. That's basically like the game saying "ooo, you're going fast, you're going fast" in an effort to get you to believe it. It just comes off as fake. The only thing I'd like to see from GT in terms of sense of speed is maybe a little more instability at high speeds.

It's not to say add a lot of motion blur or make it feel like Burnout. Rather the car needs to look like it's going faster somewhat. 80kmh should feel like 80kmh in a certain car, not 80kmh feels like 40kmh. You see what I mean?

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

As graphics improve it should get better though. I'll pop in GT3 one of these days and feel the type of speed.



It's not to say add a lot of motion blur or make it feel like Burnout. Rather the car needs to look like it's going faster somewhat. 80kmh should feel like 80kmh in a certain car, not 80kmh feels like 40kmh. You see what I mean?

Yeah. On that point, then, I agree somewhat. There are some cars out there that feel like you're going hella fast when you're only doing 60mph, and vice versa. Having all cars feel like they're doing 80kmh at 80kmh would be unrealistic.

 

[JKgo]

Some cars feel quicker than they really are 'cuz of all the different factors such as wind noise, vibration thru' the seat and steering wheel and the tyre roar. Not all of this can be simulated in-game, which is a pity. Having a way to immerse the player deeper would solve this...how 'bout Project Morpheus plus that monster rig:
https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-6-motion-simulation-demoed-with-simcraft-apex3-platform/

Now that's gonna give you real sense of immersion.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm not sure I'd want a higher sense of speed. One of the things I like most about GT's driving is that it leaves you to build your own sense of speed, as opposed to other racing games that throw a crap-load of motion blur at you. That's basically like the game saying "ooo, you're going fast, you're going fast" in an effort to get you to believe it. It just comes off as fake. The only thing I'd like to see from GT in terms of sense of speed is maybe a little more instability at high speeds.

Instability at high speed or lack thereof should be a direct result of the physics of each individual car and the overall physics engine. I certainly wouldn't want them to introduce instability where none exists just to make us feel more immersed.

I'd like to see motion blur added to the game with several grades of it available. I know it's decried in some gaming circles but I see nothing wrong with adding it as an option and making it so you can have none, a little or a lot if you desire. Adding adjustable FOV would also help with this.

 

[zzz_pt]

Comparing a recorded video of a camera attached to a bonnet to a perspective of a driver in GT is not very good.

Probably Matt's vision was a lot like the video of GT cockpit view. A lot more stable and smooth.

 

[Aphelion]

Well does anyone remember the brilliant motion blur that could be seen in replays in GT6 1.0-1.02? bring that back and everything will be alright in the world.

 

[TayeezSA]

Some cars feel quicker than they really are 'cuz of all the different factors such as wind noise, vibration thru' the seat and steering wheel and the tyre roar. Not all of this can be simulated in-game, which is a pity. Having a way to immerse the player deeper would solve this...how 'bout Project Morpheus plus that monster rig:
https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-6-motion-simulation-demoed-with-simcraft-apex3-platform/

Now that's gonna give you real sense of immersion.

True that there's different factors that amount to this. However in this case, visually I think it can be better. Sounds I know will get addressed, and we'll have to players to judge that like Xfactor

Instability at high speed or lack thereof should be a direct result of the physics of each individual car and the overall physics engine. I certainly wouldn't want them to introduce instability where none exists just to make us feel more immersed.

I'd like to see motion blur added to the game with several grades of it available. I know it's decried in some gaming circles but I see nothing wrong with adding it as an option and making it so you can have none, a little or a lot if you desire. Adding adjustable FOV would also help with this.

This 100%. Some motion blur is nice but nothing overdone. I think Driveclub did it nicely from the Youtube vids I've seen thus far. I rate Evo captured a good sense of speed there. I'll check out the game after exams and I'll give a full verdict. DC's FOV is nice too, a little too fluid but nice.

Though apparently motion blur chows processor power or something fierce. I find that weird because isn't it harder on the processor to render detailed textures instead of blurred ones?

Comparing a recorded video of a camera attached to a bonnet to a perspective of a driver in GT is not very good.

Probably Matt's vision was a lot like the video of GT cockpit view. A lot more stable and smooth.

yeah, I tried looking for a video that had the FRS/BRZ/86 with a bonnet camera in GT6, didn't have that much luck . Though the focus isn't so much on stability of the car but rather how quick are the objects coming at you vice versa?

Well does anyone remember the brilliant motion blur that could be seen in replays in GT6 1.0-1.02? bring that back and everything will be alright in the world.

I kinda remember that. Twas pretty good I say!

Did GT5P have a good sense of speed? I can't remember so I think I'll pop it in one of these days and have a look. I distinctly remember the Integra Type R feeling pretty quick visually in afew events.

 

[Nooboogering]

I think Driveclub did it nicely from the Youtube vids I've seen thus far. I rate Evo captured a good sense of speed there.

I watched my brother driving a Porsche in Driveclub today and this was the first thing I noticed along with the graphics.

 

[Earth]

Driveclub has an incredible sense of speed. So much so it can be overwhelming at times. Whatever technique they're using needs to be copied by PD.

 

[CarGamingBlog]

Driveclub has an incredible sense of speed. So much so it can be overwhelming at times. Whatever technique they're using needs to be copied by PD.

I'm glad someone brought up Driveclub's sense of speed. It can be frightening at times but the thrill is undeniable!

 

[TayeezSA]

@Nooboogering @Earth

Driveclub is just sitting in my drawer wrapped in plastic waiting to be played. Stupid exams

PD should learn from DC on some driving experience factors.

Check these out also. It's like you see the speed just surge when the turbo spools up



 

[carracerptp]

Really the "sense of speed" you are seeing is the go-pro wide angle len. Personally I'd like a ( better ) FOV option in the game. I actually think GT has it perfect right now but a slider could help others fine-tune it to what they like.

I just really hope they don't add the silly stuff like the camera shaking, blurring, vignette. Or the worst of all, varying FOV.

 

[Pseudopod]

I'm not sure I'd want a higher sense of speed. One of the things I like most about GT's driving is that it leaves you to build your own sense of speed, as opposed to other racing games that throw a crap-load of motion blur at you. That's basically like the game saying "ooo, you're going fast, you're going fast" in an effort to get you to believe it. It just comes off as fake. The only thing I'd like to see from GT in terms of sense of speed is maybe a little more instability at high speeds.

Thing is, motion blur is what you get in real life at high speeds. when you're going at 300 km/h, there's no way you're going to be able to discern irregularities of less than 2 square cm half a meter from your car. Human eyes just aren't that fast.

To get that same visual effect without using motion blur in the game, you'd need a framerate of idk, over 120, perhaps 200, which is unfeasible not only because it would consume an enormous amount of resources even on the PS4, but also because you can't even output that high a data rate (considering the game should also be 1920x1080) over standard HDMI ports these days. I guess technically some 3DTVs could display 120fps 2D if you just didn't put your 3d goggles on, but that's sort of a niche segment,

Lack of motion blur, especially close to the camera, is actually unrealistic. It doesn't have to be a lot of blur either.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Really the "sense of speed" you are seeing is the go-pro wide angle len. Personally I'd like a ( better ) FOV option in the game. I actually think GT has it perfect right now but a slider could help others fine-tune it to what they like.

I just really hope they don't add the silly stuff like the camera shaking, blurring, vignette. Or the worst of all, varying FOV.

FOV needs to be adjustable, no excuse to not have that on the PS4. I'm a fan of camera shake myself. When you're driving hard in real life you do move your head around a bit and so long as it's adjustable and optional I'm all for it.

 

[SCER]

I'm not sure I'd want a higher sense of speed. One of the things I like most about GT's driving is that it leaves you to build your own sense of speed, as opposed to other racing games that throw a crap-load of motion blur at you. That's basically like the game saying "ooo, you're going fast, you're going fast" in an effort to get you to believe it. It just comes off as fake. The only thing I'd like to see from GT in terms of sense of speed is maybe a little more instability at high speeds.

Hit the nail on the head there. Motion blur, dashboard instruments going out of focus etc. remind me of BMW having recent M models amplifying engine noises by playing them into the car's interior by speakers. Very artificial and very tacky.

Aside from perhaps slightly increased camera movement and wind noise, and of course greater physics and graphical realism, I really don't think PD could do anything to help PD simulate a sense of speed whilst still claiming to be a driving simulator rather than a fun arcade driving experience.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hit the nail on the head there. Motion blur, dashboard instruments going out of focus etc. remind me of BMW having recent M models amplifying engine noises by playing them into the car's interior by speakers. Very artificial and very tacky.

Aside from perhaps slightly increased camera movement and wind noise, and of course greater physics and graphical realism, I really don't think PD could do anything to help PD simulate a sense of speed whilst still claiming to be a driving simulator rather than a fun arcade driving experience.

The whole "driving simulator" is marketing, there's so many things that aren't simulated even close to reality, I hardly think that adding motion blur would make any difference to that claim. Even full on sims have options for motion blur and camera shake.

 

[TayeezSA]

Motion blur and camera shake is there in real life but not the way Shift exaggerated it though.

It just needs to be minimal. Nothing too heavy

 

[Pseudopod]

I'm all aboards for making the (slight) motion blur optional anyway. It's a cosmetic feature, and not everyone likes it, so there's no need to force it on people. Motion blur doesn't actually change any physics calculations, and doesn't make you approach corners faster or slower, so I don't think adding it will make any difference to how "sim" the game is. I don't think simulating how human senses percieve speed is out of the picture for a game that calls itself a sim anyway. Things such as camera shake could also be optional, even though I really hate that stuff. It's tiring to my eyes.

 

[MKVSupra]

DC has really good sense of speed, if they can match it its good nuf.

 

[TayeezSA]

Best Sense of Speed ever. Hands down.



Learn from this PD

 

[MultiMX GT]

I'm not sure I'd want a higher sense of speed. One of the things I like most about GT's driving is that it leaves you to build your own sense of speed, as opposed to other racing games that throw a crap-load of motion blur at you. That's basically like the game saying "ooo, you're going fast, you're going fast" in an effort to get you to believe it. It just comes off as fake. The only thing I'd like to see from GT in terms of sense of speed is maybe a little more instability at high speeds.

I agree. I think that when you're going at higher speeds you should be able to see the wheel shaking a lot, but i also think that PD should improve the sense of speed a little, just so that it doesn't look like you're going 15 mph when you're actually going 50 mph.

 

[MultiMX GT]

Motion blur and camera shake is there in real life but not the way Shift exaggerated it though.

It just needs to be minimal. Nothing too heavy

i think that when you're in the interior view you should see the nose of the car dip quickly when you shift and you should also be able to hear the car going into the gear instead of every car sounding like an automatic. Im pretty confident that'll get fixed tho.

 

[MultiMX GT]

GT7 should also have full steering, it should be one thousand something degrees not 90.

 

[mr_serious]

Though apparently motion blur chows processor power or something fierce. I find that weird because isn't it harder on the processor to render detailed textures instead of blurred ones?

This is true because the blurring effect has to be performed by the GPU, not by loading pre-blurred textures. This is because the amount of blur has to change dependent on both the distance through the z-plane between object & subject and the speed of the subjective view. If you could somehow work out a method for doing the blurring through textures, you would have to have so many of them loaded into memory you would have little room for anything else.