Grid Autosport (General Discussion)

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45 :D :D


I've been playing it for months.... :p :D Ahhh.... the joys of being a game dev :)

Not long now! :D

Are you using a pad or a wheel?

No matter what you use, I know you're fast. On Grid 2 you smoked me in every multiplayer session, and in GT6 you're usually the only guy from my PSN friends list that I can't beat in the seasonals :D
 
hee hee.... did I mention I was only 0:00.06 seconds off Jack Clarke's (BTCC Driver.... the guy in the latest video saying he has a Gaming Promblem :) )fastest lap time when we went Go-Karting.... in real-life :D

I'm using an Xbox pad on PC and Xbox while developing the game.... but only because it's easier. It's pretty awkward doing any work with a Fanatec wheel setup on your desk :P

We have regular competitions in the studio on the D-Box too..... triple screen, Fanatec wheel and pedals, Hydraulic seat etc.....very cool :)

I've just recently setup my rig again at home to play GT6, but I have to say in all honesty.... while it was good driving around Silverstone in an LMP1 Audi (after watching the WEC at Silverstone), it just didn't feel fun at all after playing GA.
I ended up just driving around on my own, not battling anyone... felt like a time trial. You definately don't get that in GA :D
 
hee hee.... did I mention I was only 0:00.06 seconds off Jack Clarke's (BTCC Driver.... the guy in the latest video saying he has a Gaming Promblem :) )fastest lap time when we went Go-Karting.... in real-life :D

I'm using an Xbox pad on PC and Xbox while developing the game.... but only because it's easier. It's pretty awkward doing any work with a Fanatec wheel setup on your desk :p

We have regular competitions in the studio on the D-Box too..... triple screen, Fanatec wheel and pedals, Hydraulic seat etc.....very cool :)

I've just recently setup my rig again at home to play GT6, but I have to say in all honesty.... while it was good driving around Silverstone in an LMP1 Audi (after watching the WEC at Silverstone), it just didn't feel fun at all after playing GA.
I ended up just driving around on my own, not battling anyone... felt like a time trial. You definately don't get that in GA :D
GT games have not been fun for a very long time, Try Forza 5 ;)
 
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Hey I just had an idea.

If this theoretical 'highest category' of open-wheelers isn't IndyCar... what could it be?

GP2?

Hands down, it's got to be Formula One.

Speaking of, I have an idea.

@anim8r_uk: Tell me what you think of this; I was thinking of a CM racing game that's ToCA Race Driver 3, GRID, DiRT, and F1 2013 (with a little bit of kart racing) in one $60 game.
 
I'm looking forward to playing this. It's not an automatic purchase, but if it feels good to drive then it certainly seems like it's doing everything else right. I think there's a lot of room for a realistic racer that doesn't take itself too seriously, and just offers a good time.

In the same boat as you. I want something so uncomplicated that I can just have with the DS3. I want fun a la Need For Speed in the good old days, a game that, like you said, doesn't take itself too seriously so that it doesn't end up being a joke.

Please Codies, please! Give me that, with utes, and you'll have my money.
 
Reminds me of Shift Unleashed, especially in the cornering department.





Somewhat similar cars but definitely a resemblance in physics, namely the fact that all cars seem to have a giant stake stabbed through their center on which they rotate. Constant steering readjustment, though admittedly it looks to only happen in turns on GRID, while it happens pretty much all the time on Shift 2.

To be fair, GRID is pre-Alpha so we will have to wait and see.
 
Somewhat similar cars but definitely a resemblance in physics, namely the fact that all cars seem to have a giant stake stabbed through their center on which they rotate.

As opposed to normal cars, which turn around their...oh, wait.

Constant steering readjustment, though admittedly it looks to only happen in turns on GRID, while it happens pretty much all the time on Shift 2.

Now, I'm not saying that GAS is a serious sim, because they've clearly stated that it's not. But have you ever tried to play a serious sim on a pad without assists? Project CARS was a good one for a while, because the assists simply weren't set up. It's herky jerky as all get out, and you find yourself correcting all over the place.

My point is, you have no idea why the guy was overcorrecting. Maybe he was crap. Maybe he had too much coffee. Maybe his controller was on the fritz. And maybe there's something wonky in the physics.

Judging physics from a video is almost always a mistake, only the most gross violations can be reliably detected. Otherwise people tend to see what they want to see, or what they've decided that they'll see.

The game is out soon. Play the demo, hire it, borrow it from a friend, then decide if the physics are not for you. Prejudging from a video runs the real risk that you don't give it a fair shot when you do get a chance to play, and maybe you miss out on what could be a very fun game.
 
As opposed to normal cars, which turn around their...oh, wait.

Not really. When cornering a car (caused by centripetal forces) follows the paths of it's tires, which exert a force towards the center of the corner. So in reality a car 'pivots' (not the right word, but thats the point) around the center of the radius of the corner it is taking. Even when considering changes in the cars yaw, these happens around a dynamic yaw axis, certainty not a permanent position in the center of the car.


Now, I'm not saying that GAS is a serious sim, because they've clearly stated that it's not. But have you ever tried to play a serious sim on a pad without assists? Project CARS was a good one for a while, because the assists simply weren't set up. It's herky jerky as all get out, and you find yourself correcting all over the place.

My point is, you have no idea why the guy was overcorrecting. Maybe he was crap. Maybe he had too much coffee. Maybe his controller was on the fritz. And maybe there's something wonky in the physics.

Judging physics from a video is almost always a mistake, only the most gross violations can be reliably detected. Otherwise people tend to see what they want to see, or what they've decided that they'll see.

The game is out soon. Play the demo, hire it, borrow it from a friend, then decide if the physics are not for you. Prejudging from a video runs the real risk that you don't give it a fair shot when you do get a chance to play, and maybe you miss out on what could be a very fun game.


To be fair, GRID is pre-Alpha so we will have to wait and see.
 
Not really. When cornering a car (caused by centripetal forces) follows the paths of it's tires, which exert a force towards the center of the corner. So in reality a car 'pivots' (not the right word, but thats the point) around the center of the radius of the corner it is taking. Even when considering changes in the cars yaw, these happens around a dynamic yaw axis, certainty not a permanent position in the center of the car.

So point out what specific aspects of that video lead you to believe that the car is pivoting around the centre of the car rather than behaving as the forces at the four corners dictate, please.

Yes, in reality, from an external frame of reference a car pivots around the centre of the radius of the corner (sort of, ignoring any slip angle or the like). Although it's probably more correct to say that the path the car follows is centred on the radius of the corner, and any rotation of the car is determined by the sum of the forces at the contact patches, the centre of which may well be within the body of the car (think, drift corner entry).

Anyway, please describe the difference in how a "central point" pivoting car would take the same corner, and how a viewer might spot this difference.


Sorry if I'm being picky and harsh, but this tends to happen a lot with videos, particularly with videos of games that have had previously poor reputations. If you're onto something, I'd like to understand what you're seeing and how you arrived at the conclusion. Please share the data and the reasoning you're using to come to your conclusions, and then I and others can see if we agree. At the moment, I'm not even really sure what you're looking at.
 
I'm looking forward to playing this. It's not an automatic purchase, but if it feels good to drive then it certainly seems like it's doing everything else right. I think there's a lot of room for a realistic racer that doesn't take itself too seriously, and just offers a good time.
This, this and this. I love games that don't take themselves seriously. :D
 
So point out what specific aspects of that video lead you to believe that the car is pivoting around the centre of the car rather than behaving as the forces at the four corners dictate, please.

Anyway, please describe the difference in how a "central point" pivoting car would take the same corner, and how a viewer might spot this difference.

Sorry if I'm being picky and harsh, but this tends to happen a lot with videos, particularly with videos of games that have had previously poor reputations. If you're onto something, I'd like to understand what you're seeing and how you arrived at the conclusion. Please share the data and the reasoning you're using to come to your conclusions, and then I and others can see if we agree. At the moment, I'm not even really sure what you're looking at.


Not picky or harsh at all, claims should be backed up.

Central Pivot Point physics (CPPP) dictate that the world turns around a single point set in the middle of the car - forces exerted on the car only result in changes in direction (left, right) around said point.

A 4 contact patch system takes into account the forces that exist in reality, not just "rotation". Traction, weight transfer, multi-axis movement etc are all (theoretically) modeled. Of course, this system requires a lot more resources.

CPPP is most obvious during cornering. Say you're turning right, the front of the car rotates to the right, the rear to the left around the center of the car. Inertia creates a kind of pendulum effect around the center point as the driver tries to straighten, necessitating counter-steering in both directions, seen as a gradually reducing "swaying" from left to right as the car leaves the corner, really noticeable in the Touring Car videos.

In both reality and a 4 contact patch system, as the rear swings around to the left, all those forces I mentioned above (traction, weight transfer etc) come into play, so instead of a "swaying" effect, the inertia causes the outside rear to squat down (and to some extent the outside front), giving better traction which drives the car "forward", meaning a decent yaw angle mid-corner can actually be corrected without the need for the back and forth counter-steering/swaying seen in CPPP.

In my opinion, Codemasters use a basic 4 contact point system on top of an older, CPPP system. This seems to work for open wheel cars - the F3 looks very promising and I've enjoyed the newer Codemasters F1 games. But it seems to fall short for the Touring Cars.

As already said, we will have to wait and see. The "swaying" could be caused by any number of factors.

EDIT: For what it's worth, the "driver" in the Touring Car video actually confirms (through the Youtube comments) the swaying/center pivot, though I'm not sure how much trust I'd put in that.
 
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As opposed to normal cars, which turn around their...oh, wait.



Now, I'm not saying that GAS is a serious sim, because they've clearly stated that it's not. But have you ever tried to play a serious sim on a pad without assists? Project CARS was a good one for a while, because the assists simply weren't set up. It's herky jerky as all get out, and you find yourself correcting all over the place.

My point is, you have no idea why the guy was overcorrecting. Maybe he was crap. Maybe he had too much coffee. Maybe his controller was on the fritz. And maybe there's something wonky in the physics.

Judging physics from a video is almost always a mistake, only the most gross violations can be reliably detected. Otherwise people tend to see what they want to see, or what they've decided that they'll see.

The game is out soon. Play the demo, hire it, borrow it from a friend, then decide if the physics are not for you. Prejudging from a video runs the real risk that you don't give it a fair shot when you do get a chance to play, and maybe you miss out on what could be a very fun game.

Good analogy. Agreed.

Hahahaha - "maybe he had too much coffee"

@machschnel - That's very well explained. However, cars in real life high speed driving or a race track don't pivot like that as if a giant hand is holding them down and their trying to squirm away in either direction!
 
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Reminds me of Shift Unleashed, especially in the cornering department.





Somewhat similar cars but definitely a resemblance in physics, namely the fact that all cars seem to have a giant stake stabbed through their center on which they rotate. Constant steering readjustment, though admittedly it looks to only happen in turns on GRID, while it happens pretty much all the time on Shift 2.

To be fair, GRID is pre-Alpha so we will have to wait and see.

Yeah something is defo odd when cornering in most of the Grid videos, All these PR vids seem to feel the need to counter steer while in the corner.
 
this is my personal opinion as a racing fan and long term user of these forums....

....but when you have 3 separate British Touring Car Championship drivers coming in and driving the touring cars, giving feedback,adjusting and making tweaks....and then stating that "this is awesome".... and then have multiple people posting videos who have actually played the game, also stating that the handling is much improved and feels great, I get confused. I don't see how it's possible to judge the handling characteristics of a game without actually playing it and experiencing it.

of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's ok.... this is my opinion after all.
 
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