Group 3 BoP Testing

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Tidgney

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LZR_Tidgney
Hey everyone :),

So, ever since the big BoP change a few patches ago I've personally not been overly happy in terms of the balance of performance so I wanted to see if my thoughts were justified! So what I've decided to do is test each and every group 3 car at 5 different tracks. Originally it was going to be 6 but I'm not consistent enough at Bathurst yet and I believe Interlagos and brands hatch respectively cover Bathurst quite well in terms of undulations. Here's a video explaining how the test will work;



If you don't want to watch the video the 5 tracks and the reasons behind them are;
  • Brands Hatch GP: Downforce Track, Undulations, Use of Kerbs
  • Dragon Trail: Very Kerb heavy, Very fast track, Not hugely technical, 1 Key corner for stability
  • Interlagos: Large amount of Undulations, Use of Kerbs, Acceleration up the hill
  • Nurburgring GP: Balanced Track, Technical sections, Long Straights, Chicane Stability tested (CURRENTLY REMOVED DUE TO TRACK LIMITS)
  • Suzuka: Balanced Track, Technical Sections, Long Straights, No Kerb Abuse, Very trail braking dependant
All 5 tracks I'm very consistent at usually so it should give a balanced test. I want to capture the speed at a given point which currently is at the cones before 130R however I'm still reviewing this. I keep hold of ALL the test sessions so I can revisit any one of the pieces of video footage to change this if required. My aim at the end of the test is to see which cars are the strongest and which are the weakest across the 5 tracks. In my personal opinion I believe there should be 5/6 if not 10 cars all very close at each of the given tracks and that the gap across all cars at all of the tracks shouldn't really be over 1-2 seconds. Some cars will be stronger at some tracks than others and those at the bottom end and potentially at the top we will commit to new BoP changes and see if we can bring the field closer together.

Here is the current standings of the test;


Spreadsheet: click here
Just to explain the spreadsheet a little;
  • Risk Indicator: How risky is the car to drive and also the ability to catch it. Higher the number the higher the risk (1-10). It's in my personal opinion that a riskier car should be slightly faster as you will be less consistent in the car.
  • Suzuka Top Speed: Currently based at 130R, it's to test acceleration and top end at that point. A car with a higher top end speed may be harder to overtake and therefore if also very quick at tracks may need a penalty.
  • Current BoP: This is on due to the fact a patch could arrive at any moment so this is the Balance of Performance at the time of the test. Please note that this is the Circuit BoP and not the Oval BoP which are different!
  • Rec. BoP: If we decide to change a BoP on a car after the initial tests this will be our recommended BoP.
  • Current: Is literally the current BoP time.
  • Change: Is the new time based on a new BoP.
  • Total Current Time: Total of all the current times.
  • Total Change Time: Total of all the changed BoP times.
Now each test takes me about 2 hours. I also keep the video footage so I have to render each of these (I also record the best lap replay) which takes me another 3 hours. I then have to edit the actual car profile video which takes at least another hour and then upload the video which takes about 3-4 hours due to my internet upload speed. So do bear with me with this as I also work and I am trying to compete at the same time as well! I'm hoping for at least 2 car profiles a week.

Lap Times/Lap Count

Lap times are not just the fastest lap that I do in that given session it's actually based on the optimal. This is because I could be there all day going for the fastest lap and that could be a 1 in 10 chance. Instead getting a 1 in 10 chance in each of the sectors on different laps is much easier and should actually give us a more accurate test. Yes occasionally you may blitz a sector on 1 track but that's a factor that will always happen in any testing which is why we've picked 5 tracks to reduce this happening.

I also do a minimum of 10 laps, and may go to 11 or 12 if I feel I'm missing a big bulk of time due to a mistake. You can always go faster on a lap so I'm not after the ultimate pace but to be on fairly quick laps to judge where a car is.

Car Profiles:

Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbG5l8Fs0KOa1Jm5Fz-61fK-WGBbeVXt7


FAQ

Why are you doing car profiles?

There's more to just a BoP test with each car as they each have their own characteristics. A prime example are the 2 cars already completed. Alfa is MR and Aston is FR and drive very differently and perform differently at each track. I figured it would be best to explain what causes some of the issues with each of the cars.

Why not look at fuel?
The problem with looking at fuel which is another area of testing that is probably required is that you have to do the entire car list all in 1 go. If a patch comes in that changes the usage of fuel it effectively ruins the test as we can't actually enter how much fuel a given car should use.

Why not Group 4?
Group 4 might be looked at in the future, group 3 is my favoured car category so I will continue to work on this currently.

What do you hope to accomplish from this?
Personally I like to know which cars are strong and which are weak. I could do this test in private and not tell a soul but I'm a big advocate of fair and clean racing. To me the fairest way to race is to give out this information and let people then choose which car is right for them. I've also no idea how GT Staff do the BoP testing internally and I know for example some companies aren't allowed to BoP cars without the manufacturers authorisation (I'm assuming this is why when the RCZ and 911 were relatively equal the RCZ got a massive nerf and the 911 got a tiny one). You also never know who reads these forums so GT may look at this thread and just keep an eye on it and BoP accordingly to it? Who knows, I just think it's a good way to identify strong/weak cars and hopefully contribute to a better GT Sport experience!

If you feel I'm doing something wrong or would like something adding to this let me know. In addition I do take requests to bump a car up the list and I've had one today so the Lexus will be in fact coming very soon!
 
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237
Italy
Italy
IPsykoZz
Well good luck with this Tigdney, I personally find some cars with these stock setups way too challenging to drive to get any benefits doing so.
 
624
United States
United States
Since you are using the "Optimal Lap" time (which I understand to be stringing together the best sector times from multiple laps) could you also include something like "Best 3 Consecutive Lap Average"? This could be beneficial to notice if there is a large difference from a theoretical best lap and what is actually achieved over a few laps. It gives another indication of how difficult the car is to drive.

The issue with the "Optimal Lap" time is that each fastest sector could potentially require a slower sector before or after. For example, to achieve the fastest sector 2, you may have to take a line out of sector 1 that makes sector 1 slow (or you may have to take a line out of sector 2 that results in a slow sector 3.) This could result in an empirically impossible lap time.

Just a thought that doesn't require much more work. I appreciate your effort and can't wait to see the results!
 
1,400
Netherlands
Netherlands
I can only respect people who are willing to do this and willing to share the info.

Great work mate and cant wait to see where this is going 👍

Only lay-out tip: start with the times in the column not the risk. Also the Suzuka speed column is too big and seems to important. Make that one smaller by changing its upper text. Put that with risk column at the end somewhere.
So focus the spreadsheet on the times and make the time-columns a bit wider.
 
3,177
England
St helens, merseyside, England.
crazybuttocks198
Crazybuttocks19
I am liking what you are doing. As a casual racer im not as imterested n all the factors. I can get more out of what cars to use from a racer with a much higher skillset than mine. Looking forward to the other cars.
 

Tidgney

Premium
2,690
United Kingdom
Southport
LZR_Tidgney
Since you are using the "Optimal Lap" time (which I understand to be stringing together the best sector times from multiple laps) could you also include something like "Best 3 Consecutive Lap Average"? This could be beneficial to notice if there is a large difference from a theoretical best lap and what is actually achieved over a few laps. It gives another indication of how difficult the car is to drive.

The issue with the "Optimal Lap" time is that each fastest sector could potentially require a slower sector before or after. For example, to achieve the fastest sector 2, you may have to take a line out of sector 1 that makes sector 1 slow (or you may have to take a line out of sector 2 that results in a slow sector 3.) This could result in an empirically impossible lap time.

Just a thought that doesn't require much more work. I appreciate your effort and can't wait to see the results!

It's a good point and one that crossed my mind to be honest, the perfect example is Brands hatch with the end of sector 2 (Surtees) and sector 3 (Upto Hawthorn Bend). You can actually manipulate sector 2 for example by taking a really tight line but then sector 3 will be slower and vice versa. But as I'm driving each car relatively similar in terms of lines it should work out not to bad in my opinion.

Now don't get me wrong nothing is perfect as then you've got to think about the time of day you do these, how long have you played GT Sport before hand etc (thousands of possible tiny parameters that can change). The time playing GT Sport I'm making sure I'm close to a rank 1 on another time trial before even starting these so I know I'm up to pace. That's 1 reason for the optimal I guess as in the end while not perfect 1 in 10 to get a best sector is better than 1 in 10 for 1 fast lap.

With regards to the consecutive lap I'm not sure how good that would be to log, I do however show the fastest laps so you can see fastest lap times on the right. I do comment on them in each of the videos as well but this spreadsheet could get enormous if I did that. Maybe something in the future once I have all the results, as I keep the video footage, I could do something separate and just log it.

I can only respect people who are willing to do this and willing to share the info.

Great work mate and cant wait to see where this is going 👍

Only lay-out tip: start with the times in the column not the risk. Also the Suzuka speed column is too big and seems to important. Make that one smaller by changing its upper text. Put that with risk column at the end somewhere.
So focus the spreadsheet on the times and make the time-columns a bit wider.

Hmm interesting points about the layout. Never really considered it as I was just showing it for the results. I might put the risk indicator over by the comments section then along with the speed trap :)! Not sure I can make any columns to much wider without having to scroll which is something I want to avoid.

I am liking what you are doing. As a casual racer im not as imterested n all the factors. I can get more out of what cars to use from a racer with a much higher skillset than mine. Looking forward to the other cars.

Next car due to the request I had will be the Lexus and should be out tomorrow. It was going to be today however I've now got to travel to a town near me to try win a race seat for the season :P!
 
801
United Kingdom
Planet Earth
silz616
Next car due to the request I had will be the Lexus and should be out tomorrow. It was going to be today however I've now got to travel to a town near me to try win a race seat for the season :P![/QUOTE]

Good luck!!
 

Tidgney

Premium
2,690
United Kingdom
Southport
LZR_Tidgney
Good luck!!


Cheers was good fun but didn't win!

Now for some news, we have a new leader at the top of the charts! No video today I'm afraid as I got in late from work and had to sort a few things, possibly no video tomorrow either as I'm still rendering stuff and I do vehicle maintenance class after work so probably Wednesday! However here's a sneak peak of the current standings! I'd also recommend the Lexus to any newcomer or anyone struggling with group 3 cars, very stable in the grand scheme of the class!

q3rGmTth.png
 
31
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Keep up the great work matey. Been following your work on Youtube since the Suzuka Track guide. Really high quality stuff so I’m always keen on new content.
 

Tidgney

Premium
2,690
United Kingdom
Southport
LZR_Tidgney
Keep up the great work matey. Been following your work on Youtube since the Suzuka Track guide. Really high quality stuff so I’m always keen on new content.

Cheers Vredefort :)! I'll keep trying, although youtube this week has been having issues it appears! My video had some visual lag spikes but audio was fine and has taken me nearly 3 days to get this video working (Just a process of re-uploading until it works). Crazy thing was it worked on mobiles, but a few friends had the same issues as me on PCs :(! Good news though, the Lexus RC F video is here, next car is the Audi R8 LMS. Any requests will come after the Audi!

 
476
United States
United States
dabz343
Appreciate your work mate, but observing your level of detail, we could certainly use your skills to deconstruct and analyze the new 1.13 Penalty Algorithm. Don't get me wrong, the BoP work is very interesting, but if you magically happen to find a block of time please join in.
 
3,177
England
St helens, merseyside, England.
crazybuttocks198
Crazybuttocks19
Evo gr 3. My go to car. I like it round the turns, dont think its the fastest though.

4837522408257619457_23.jpg

Got my fave livery on as well.
 
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Tidgney

Premium
2,690
United Kingdom
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LZR_Tidgney
Appreciate your work mate, but observing your level of detail, we could certainly use your skills to deconstruct and analyze the new 1.13 Penalty Algorithm. Don't get me wrong, the BoP work is very interesting, but if you magically happen to find a block of time please join in.

I'll take a look at that thread, I initially read through a bit but then works been hectic since yesterday so not had chance to read to much more on it! Happy to help where I can :).

Evo gr 3. My go to car. I like it round the turns, dont think its the fastest though.

I'd like to request the Porsche 911 RSR since it's used so often and gives context.

Excellent ok, so in order it'll be the Audi R8 LMS, Evo then the Porsche 911 RSR. Audi will be Sunday/Monday, I'll try get the Evo out by Friday and then finally the Porsche 911 on Sunday next week.
 
176
United Kingdom
Dunstable
Alfabob46
Agreed it's one of my favourite playlists at the moment,
Just can't wait to get to the BMW Z4, it's been my go to car for a while now and has beaten many 911, M6.
Over 3000 miles in it so far.
 

Tidgney

Premium
2,690
United Kingdom
Southport
LZR_Tidgney
Yo all,

Sorry for the delay, I was literally going to do a BoP test late last night and another today but after the announcement of the patch that I saw I'm holding off until tomorrows maintenance. While I note down performance I don't want to release a video 1 day before patch and 1 on patch day that would then possibly change if BoP change comes in.

Now if any car does have their BoP changed in this patch we won't be going back to it just yet as the whole idea of the test is to do it at the time and then look at which cars are strong and which are weak. IF and only IF they change the physics we may have to do the tests again, however I won't release them as videos but will film and record updated times and maybe do a 1 update video to show you what's changed, so just a heads up with that :).

I've also had a few requests to change the acceleration area and the best one is Tokyo East (Sort of where I was thinking before even making this) so I will definitely do that there. I'll probably be going for double speed trap, one after X distance and the other at the end of the straight to gather acceleration and top speed.

With the patch coming in I'm hoping to get 3 out this week!

Evo, Porsche and Ferrari

PD, HIRE THIS MAN!

"read it in Larry Davids voice when George gets the Yankees job on Seinfeld"

Haha, I'd love to help them out where ever I can, in fact any racing game! 1 of the titles has to take erm... that title sooner or later! In my opinion it'll be the one with the varied grid of cars all very balanced which will bring the most exciting racing/show.

@Tidgney Man you're content is fantastic. Appreciate the effort you put in these.

Cheers :).

Good stuff. Keep quiet about the Lexus though please mate :sly: just hide the row or something. Cheers 👍

Edit: are you leaving brake balance at 0 for all tests?

Haha, I can't stay quiet :P! BB will always be on 0 for these although as someone suggested I should state what I would do with it, so i'll say my preference. But as this varies heavily between drivers my preference is usually in GT Sport 1 to the front. A good example was one time trial event Lightning was using +2 and I was using -2 (Or the other way around can't remember which way it is) we weren't far off each other but our driving styles are different so it shows its very user preference.

Amazing work Tidg, thank you. Can you prioritise the FT1?

I'll add it up the list for you :). Going to add an order list to that spreadsheet so everyone knows where we are up to :).

Agreed it's one of my favourite playlists at the moment,
Just can't wait to get to the BMW Z4, it's been my go to car for a while now and has beaten many 911, M6.
Over 3000 miles in it so far.

O wow thanks for the kind comments :)!
 

Tidgney

Premium
2,690
United Kingdom
Southport
LZR_Tidgney
Sorry for the delay, Mothers day was on Sunday and Saturday I was out all day! However here's the Mitsubishi as promised;



Porsche will be Friday, and Ferrari will be Sunday! Had a few more requests in the youtube comments so any more will be behind those :). In addition I'm looking at an alternative to Suzuka for a speed trap, I'm currently testing Tokyo out :).
 
1,108
United Kingdom
Sheffield
LewisBentley6
Porsche will be Friday, and Ferrari will be Sunday! Had a few more requests in the youtube comments so any more will be behind those :). In addition I'm looking at an alternative to Suzuka for a speed trap, I'm currently testing Tokyo out :).

Haha, don't overwork yourself adding even more tracks! :cheers: