Group 3 BoP Testing

  • Thread starter Tidgney
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2,487
Indonesia
Bekasi
razaqafazran1103
After seeing the SLS BoP Test, I think kie25 should have gone with that as opposed to the AMG GT GT3 when he picked his cars to represent Mercedes in the Manufacturer Series as his Gr.3 car. But then again, he seems to be struggling with the Gr.4 version of the SLS. Great stuff, Tidge.

Lets see how the RCZ performs on your BoP Test, as it's been your car of choice for the Gr.3 class it seems.
 

Tidgney

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Hey All,

So I did the RCZ and as I thought I did boost the times a little from my experience? How do I know? I was nailing sector 2 every single time at Interlagos pretty much and my Suzuka times were instantly on point! Even so I put in my best effort and I think it's gone a little high up for it's actual BoP due to my experience, even so it sits where it sits so enjoy :)



I think the RS01 and GR Supra might bring some more surprises! (Suzuka, and Dragon Trail). Will be nice to hear your analysis!

RS01 will be tomorrow, I know a few people had issue with that car on some slower corners so that will be interesting for sure! I have driven the Supra before and I actually really enjoyed that car, it definitely felt quick!

Not surprised by the SLS. PD has known this for a while too, just look at the BOP changes. This is AFTER it's been nerfed (twice?).

Wow really!? I didn't realise it had been nerfed twice already, it's definitely a very, very good car!

Just wanted to thank you for all the time and effort you've put into this. I didn't realise the GR3 is actually so close. It means I've got no valid excuse other than my low ability level, when I end up losing the lead pack of cars!

Felix, absolutely no problem! It is fairly close in the grand scheme of it to be honest which is why Manufacturer cup group 3 races are really, really good fun! A few little changes to a few cars and we'll have a pretty decent class setup really!

After seeing the SLS BoP Test, I think kie25 should have gone with that as opposed to the AMG GT GT3 when he picked his cars to represent Mercedes in the Manufacturer Series as his Gr.3 car. But then again, he seems to be struggling with the Gr.4 version of the SLS. Great stuff, Tidge.

Lets see how the RCZ performs on your BoP Test, as it's been your car of choice for the Gr.3 class it seems.

I am surprised more people didn't test the SLS but I guess based on what Azerach said to most will think of it as a throw away as it's an older car! I definitely have seen Kie25's struggle in group 4, I'm in the same boat with Peugeot and it's a class that really needs looking at!

Well I was very surprised by the SLS. Always thought it was a throwaway entry on the car list, really. I think I will give it some foot massage later today.

Haha exactly, I was expecting it to be rubbish! Was suddenly surprised very quickly haha!
 
4,777
England
Nelson, England
GTP_ASH32
Well I was very surprised by the SLS. Always thought it was a throwaway entry on the car list, really. I think I will give it some foot massage later today.

It was a throwaway car because whilst it was always quick on the straights it was not as good as the AMG in the corners and the AMG wasn't exactly slow on the straights, so there was never a need to use it over that, even at a place like Monza but the AMG has since been nerfed (more than once) and so have quite a few of the other cars that were clearly better than it before and that's likely what's brought it into play, over potential one lap pace anyway.

It was a long time ago when I used it too, maybe I need to try it again soon. Although I suspect it won't be quite as good of a race car as it's rivals. ;)
 
6,148
United States
Washington State
OutlawQuadrant
It was a throwaway car because whilst it was always quick on the straights it was not as good as the AMG in the corners and the AMG wasn't exactly slow on the straights, so there was never a need to use it over that, even at a place like Monza but the AMG has since been nerfed (more than once) and so have quite a few of the other cars that were clearly better than it before and that's likely what's brought it into play, over potential one lap pace anyway.

It was a long time ago when I used it too, maybe I need to try it again soon. Although I suspect it won't be quite as good of a race car as it's rivals. ;)
I'm going off of memory here but when I bought GT Sport earlier in the year, I did a test season with the SLS. Like you pointed out, it had the speed advantage but the AMG cornered better. The AMG was also better with fuel management.

I may be wrong but I believe the AMG has been nerfed more than the SLS.
 
792
Canada
Canada
It was a throwaway car because whilst it was always quick on the straights it was not as good as the AMG in the corners and the AMG wasn't exactly slow on the straights, so there was never a need to use it over that, even at a place like Monza but the AMG has since been nerfed (more than once) and so have quite a few of the other cars that were clearly better than it before and that's likely what's brought it into play, over potential one lap pace anyway.

It was a long time ago when I used it too, maybe I need to try it again soon. Although I suspect it won't be quite as good of a race car as it's rivals. ;)

I'm going off of memory here but when I bought GT Sport earlier in the year, I did a test season with the SLS. Like you pointed out, it had the speed advantage but the AMG cornered better. The AMG was also better with fuel management.

I may be wrong but I believe the AMG has been nerfed more than the SLS.

I think I got these two confused since they're both AMG, it's more clear if I say GT3 vs SLS lol.

Patch - SLS HP kg - GT3 HP kg
1.20 - 586HP 1350kg - 558HP 1325kg
1.15 - 586HP 1350kg - 564HP 1325kg
1.12 - 586HP 1350kg - 571HP 1325kg
1.10 - 586HP 1350kg - 571HP 1325kg
1.05 - 598HP 1350kg - 582HP 1325kg

pre 1.05 the GT3 had less than 582HP, this was in the 1.05 patch notes
Mercedes AMG GT3 (AMG-Team HTP-Motorsport) '16 [Power ratio: 94% > 95%]

the GT3 was buffed once, then has had it's power nerfed 3 times, the SLS was only nerfed once. I couldn't find all of this in the patch notes, my source is this which i believe to be accurate:

how do i link to a google spreadsheet without it trying to embed and fail?
 
Last edited:

Tidgney

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Hey All :),

Latest BoP is here, another surprise!? I'm also going to rerun 1 car that hasn't changed just to make sure nothing funky has happened secretly to physics as it's quite crazy that 2 cars suddenly jump the pack out of nowhere! We'll see what happens but here's the latest video (Apologies for the audio, looks like sound went funky on commentary for some reason?)



If the document isn't published you can't link it @vvise I had that issue when making my google spreadsheet.
 
624
United States
United States
Hey All :),

Latest BoP is here, another surprise!? I'm also going to rerun 1 car that hasn't changed just to make sure nothing funky has happened secretly to physics as it's quite crazy that 2 cars suddenly jump the pack out of nowhere! We'll see what happens but here's the latest video (Apologies for the audio, looks like sound went funky on commentary for some reason?)



If the document isn't published you can't link it @vvise I had that issue when making my google spreadsheet.

Ah come on @Tidgney! You just killed my Nations sleeper car! Couldn't you have waited 4 days or tested one of the two VWs?

Just give me a few days to cool off and I will probably forgive you. ;)
 

K32

434
Australia
Australia
I am surprised more people didn't test the SLS but I guess based on what Azerach said to most will think of it as a throw away as it's an older car! I definitely have seen Kie25's struggle in group 4, I'm in the same boat with Peugeot and it's a class that really needs looking at!

You don't think the SLS Gr.3 understeers a bit too much, especially in faster corners? If you put that in accordance with tyre wear, it kills the rubber on the fronts way too quickly.
 

Tidgney

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GTP_Tidgney
Hey Guys,

Next one is available for you :)! It's the Volkswagen Beetle Gr.3 quite an interesting car, and I think pretty fun :)!



Ah come on @Tidgney! You just killed my Nations sleeper car! Couldn't you have waited 4 days or tested one of the two VWs?

Just give me a few days to cool off and I will probably forgive you. ;)

Haha, I'm sorry :P! Volkswagen #1 was done today haha :P!

K32
You don't think the SLS Gr.3 understeers a bit too much, especially in faster corners? If you put that in accordance with tyre wear, it kills the rubber on the fronts way too quickly.

Definitely doesn't understeer to much and you can counter any of that with brake balance to be honest. I am doing tyre wear and fuel tests after this, but initially this test is just balance of performance and something we can see/judge change. Fuel and tyre wear we are never given information so it's a little more difficult. I will be doing some tests though, probably after the July patch with the tyre and fuel wear :).
 
517
United States
Ohio
ScotysDemise
OnlySlightlyBad
Thank you for this. I find myself struggling a little more in the gr3 cars than gr4. I'll be looking over your data and checking out some of the videos on cars I think I might like. Up to now, I've been using the Corvette because of all the freedom and bald eagles that come from the exhaust :lol: I may have to start changing it up some.
 
6,148
United States
Washington State
OutlawQuadrant
Just a thought but leaving brake balance at default for these tests may be skewing current times away from reality. I can understand that brake balance settings is dependent on driver style and skill but it is one of the few settings we are allowed to change. At the least, it would be interesting to see the change in optimals and car characteristics by tweaking the brakes.
 

Tidgney

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Hey All :)!

The next profile/BoP test is here, the Peugeot VGT! The rocket of the class I'd say haha!



Thank you for this. I find myself struggling a little more in the gr3 cars than gr4. I'll be looking over your data and checking out some of the videos on cars I think I might like. Up to now, I've been using the Corvette because of all the freedom and bald eagles that come from the exhaust :lol: I may have to start changing it up some.

Absolutely no problem! I only do these for the community and could have easily just kept it all to myself but prefer helping out where I can and with so much choice it suddenly becomes quite daunting! Hopefully you find something additional to the chevvy that takes you fancy :D! Maybe become a PUG driver and join the PUG POWA Clan haha :D!

Just a thought but leaving brake balance at default for these tests may be skewing current times away from reality. I can understand that brake balance settings is dependent on driver style and skill but it is one of the few settings we are allowed to change. At the least, it would be interesting to see the change in optimals and car characteristics by tweaking the brakes.

True it could skew the figures slightly but I look at that in the fact it's something PD need to change with the car rather than a player? So if a car majorly requires the brake balance to change then I think it should be neutralised by PD rather than the player and then let the player decide if they want a little more under steer/over steer? It's a hard one because I'd have to increase the test to also look at it from a -1 BB, then a +1 BB and probably do 15 laps on each of those to make sure we've gone in the right direction? That would take me so much longer and I don't have the time for that personally :(. I don't think it makes to much difference in the end though as I know one leader board where I did go for rank 1 Lightning was using +1 and I was using -1 (Can't remember the car) and we both had the same optimums (Unbelievable matching lightning is quite an achievement at the moment haha :D)!
 
517
United States
Ohio
ScotysDemise
OnlySlightlyBad
I really appreciate the comments on each car. I'll check to double check and see if I have the RS01 when I get home tonight. I have quite a few gr3 cars, but I don't drive them enough to get a good feel on how they work. This will help greatly. Thanks again. You sir are a saint and a scholar!
 
6,148
United States
Washington State
OutlawQuadrant
True it could skew the figures slightly but I look at that in the fact it's something PD need to change with the car rather than a player? So if a car majorly requires the brake balance to change then I think it should be neutralised by PD rather than the player and then let the player decide if they want a little more under steer/over steer? It's a hard one because I'd have to increase the test to also look at it from a -1 BB, then a +1 BB and probably do 15 laps on each of those to make sure we've gone in the right direction? That would take me so much longer and I don't have the time for that personally :(. I don't think it makes to much difference in the end though as I know one leader board where I did go for rank 1 Lightning was using +1 and I was using -1 (Can't remember the car) and we both had the same optimums (Unbelievable matching lightning is quite an achievement at the moment haha :D)!
I can understand. I lose a lot of time fiddling with settings, not just brake balance but also wheel settings just to find that extra bit of time.

Just so you know, I was using your Brands Hatch Renault splits to figure out where I needed improvement. Unfortunately, I was a tenth off in every single sector. That's my lifetime Gran Turismo performance in a nutshell. Matching an alien is often close but just out of reach. :lol:
 

Tidgney

Premium
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GTP_Tidgney
I can understand. I lose a lot of time fiddling with settings, not just brake balance but also wheel settings just to find that extra bit of time.

Just so you know, I was using your Brands Hatch Renault splits to figure out where I needed improvement. Unfortunately, I was a tenth off in every single sector. That's my lifetime Gran Turismo performance in a nutshell. Matching an alien is often close but just out of reach. :lol:

I have horrid memories of spending 5 hours on brake setup for a Le Mans race haha! Never want to do that again! I'm using the Renault to here, I'm actually on an optimum of a 21.6 now :embarrassed:! I can see it to in terms of lap time it's just solid to nail, on a 22.0 again at the moment :D.

 

Tidgney

Premium
2,688
United Kingdom
Southport
GTP_Tidgney
Hey All :),

So 2 videos today, 1 more tomorrow (Wednesday) and then I'll look at changing my wheel over, getting up to speed and then doing the retests where the BoP has changed (I'll be waiting for the July update first just to make sure nothing major changes). I'll also look at the Aston as maybe as it was early I didn't quite test it right? I'd just like to double check that. Anyone worried that because I've done a lot recently it might affect it, it honestly might? But not by that much... remember I did a few in 1 go previously as well and when I started this I was quicker than I was now (I feel I'm about a tenth off my ultimate pace at the moment). Even with this in mind this is why we go for optimum over fastest laps :).

With that in mind here are the latest 2 videos :)





This BoP test shows how silly the META car is. Most of the cars at the top of your test I've never/very rarely ever seen on the top 10 leaderboards. People just follow whatever the first good driver uses

Yup sure does, especially with 1 of the 2 above! Unbelievable results are coming up to be honest!

omg just saw your VW GTI VGT video O_O

Haha :D, it is pretty crazy!
 
34
United States
Oregon
The GTI VGT has been my dirty little secret for a while now, guess that’s over lol. Not sure why everyone stopped using it because it was the go to back in November for B B raceway if you guys remember. Now that I think about it I think that’s when the beetle first became popular so everyone used just forgot about it. It did suffer from oversteer really bad though so I used for Suzuka, blue moon etc. Thanks for all the hard work Tidgney, I have been a fan and subscriber on YouTube since the third try for gt academy I think. My wife made fun of me over how excited I got when I saw you were at the world tour and how upset I was because they weren’t giving you enough air time lol.
 
245
Azerach
My very early impression of the Supra was that it was the 911 RSR v2. You put near identical times in both for all but suzuka, which separated them by 0.4 seconds. Could be just the limited amount of laps to achieve a good rhythm. Gears being very different across the two and such.

Oh and yeah, the GTI VGT has been known to be a sleeper by some. I think it being a fantasy car makes it less appealing causing some to avoid it.
 
517
United States
Ohio
ScotysDemise
OnlySlightlyBad
So I've been practicing for the Brands Hatch FIA race this week, and I'm not great in Gr.3 cars. Your lists and info has been a fantastic tool for me. You may or may not remember me saying this, but I've been using the Corvette simply because it's one of my favorite real world GT3 cars. Well with your spreadsheet and videos (I haven't had time to go through them all) I found myself really, really enjoying the Hyundai. It's a very easy car to drive, and with me being so inconsistent at Brands, I was able to lay down some very consistent times. AND it's great on fuel which is a huge bonus. When I have more time, I'll be going through some more of your videos to see if there is anything else that may suit me well. Good work my guy!
 

Tidgney

Premium
2,688
United Kingdom
Southport
GTP_Tidgney
Hey All,

So the last group 3 car profile is here (Not the last BoP test) and it's the Lexus RC F GT3! I hope you do enjoy all of the profiles, the videos on this BoP and other classes will continue just with a little break initially. So what will happen now is there will be a little break while I switch my wheels over and sort out a few bits for stream and other videos. I'm potentially doing a summary video before retests as well to explain where we are upto, what is planned with the tests etc. I also want to make sure July doesn't have the new tyre model as it would seem a bit silly to retest the changed cars and then have to redo them again if the tyre model arrives. So things should start again in August with retests or at least once the update is here. Please do keep in mind in August/September my primary focus will be to try qualify for the regional final, whether I do or not is entirely dependant on luck but it does mean videos and tests will slack off a bit during that time, but please don't panic. Anyway with everything being said here is the car profile of the Lexus!



I seriously need to try this car out on the next Sport race with Gr. 3

:D, just used the VW GTI VGT in my nations race, came 2nd ;P! Thought I'd try something different for the fun, and Brands is its weakest track :embarrassed:!

Thanks to your videos i gave the beetle a shot at brands in practice for nations tomorrow. It's a really enjoyable drive! So thank you for that :) Might be one of my new fav Gr3 cars.

Excellent to hear, I literally (As I mentioned in stream) only make these videos and do the tests to help people out, so glad it's helped! I heard Lightning used the beetle to :D!

The GTI VGT has been my dirty little secret for a while now, guess that’s over lol. Not sure why everyone stopped using it because it was the go to back in November for B B raceway if you guys remember. Now that I think about it I think that’s when the beetle first became popular so everyone used just forgot about it. It did suffer from oversteer really bad though so I used for Suzuka, blue moon etc. Thanks for all the hard work Tidgney, I have been a fan and subscriber on YouTube since the third try for gt academy I think. My wife made fun of me over how excited I got when I saw you were at the world tour and how upset I was because they weren’t giving you enough air time lol.

Haha sorry, I've revealed a few dirty secrets recently :D! Absolutely no problem, always happy to help the community as I've tried to do since 2011 now, wow that makes me feel old actually :embarrassed:! Haha, I tried my best to get into the action in the Nations final, hopefully the Pantera race really gave you and everyone excitement, one of the best races I've done at a live event. Crazy thing about that event is literally straight after I had to stay awake all the way into the next day and meet up with the cruise ship! I think I was up over 38 hours :crazy:.

My very early impression of the Supra was that it was the 911 RSR v2. You put near identical times in both for all but suzuka, which separated them by 0.4 seconds. Could be just the limited amount of laps to achieve a good rhythm. Gears being very different across the two and such.

Oh and yeah, the GTI VGT has been known to be a sleeper by some. I think it being a fantasy car makes it less appealing causing some to avoid it.

That's actually a good point, sometimes some tracks just don't suit a car as well literally could be gearing or anything! It could also be as you say not enough laps with the car as I think when I did the 911 it was one of my most used cars so potentially was hitting quite high in terms of times! I'm definitely in agreement that the GTI VGT should probably not be in the class, as personally I feel group 3 should represent GT3 which represents real cars? Some VGT's definitely should be in, like the RCZ, Beetle or anything else based on a real car. But that's my personal opinion and I don't work for GT haha :P!

So I've been practicing for the Brands Hatch FIA race this week, and I'm not great in Gr.3 cars. Your lists and info has been a fantastic tool for me. You may or may not remember me saying this, but I've been using the Corvette simply because it's one of my favorite real world GT3 cars. Well with your spreadsheet and videos (I haven't had time to go through them all) I found myself really, really enjoying the Hyundai. It's a very easy car to drive, and with me being so inconsistent at Brands, I was able to lay down some very consistent times. AND it's great on fuel which is a huge bonus. When I have more time, I'll be going through some more of your videos to see if there is anything else that may suit me well. Good work my guy!

I'm glad they've been a good help, that's the goal with this and it's awesome to hear! I do remember you saying it :D! So good to hear you've found a nice alternative, it literally makes these worth making (Even with the insane amount of hours of testing and editing!). I hope you enjoy the remaining profiles you want to watch and more videos to come :)!
 
517
United States
Ohio
ScotysDemise
OnlySlightlyBad
I'll watching the rest when I have some free time. Probably a few every day this weekend, just so I can get a good idea of what each car is like. For the nations race today/tonight, I just needed something that would be easy to hop into, drive, and be consistent in. I tried the AMG GT3, and it wasn't quite my type, although I didn't do many laps in it. The Hyundai is SOOOOOOOO easy to drive, I could hit the same line and apex every lap, even with worn tires. Hopefully I'll gain some speed in Gr.3 and can start running it more.
 

Boedefeld

(Banned)
231
Germany
Germany
MojoMoley
Hey Tidgney, just wanted to say a big thank you for all the work you're doing! Much appreciated and this made me use more Gr.3 cars!
 
517
United States
Ohio
ScotysDemise
OnlySlightlyBad
Are you going to be redoing these tests now since we have a new tire model? If so, I feel so sorry for you lol. You just finished them all up and WHAM BAM, THANK YOU MA'AM! It's all different now
 
245
Azerach
Tyre & fuel tests next please! 💡

Some things the update has me pondering is how much does an aggressive driving style save in time over a lap and how much tyres does more conservative driving style save. This wasn't really a factor before but I can see future endurance races having more variety in terms of strategy. Mediums with conservative driving vs Hards with aggressive; are they equally fast? tyre wear?

Anyway, whatever you plan on doing I'll be sure to watch, like, subscribe and all that.
 
3,954
Philippines
Laguna
Alpha_Cipher1
Tyre & fuel tests next please! 💡

Some things the update has me pondering is how much does an aggressive driving style save in time over a lap and how much tyres does more conservative driving style save. This wasn't really a factor before but I can see future endurance races having more variety in terms of strategy. Mediums with conservative driving vs Hards with aggressive; are they equally fast? tyre wear?

Anyway, whatever you plan on doing I'll be sure to watch, like, subscribe and all that.
There's already a thread for this :D
It includes fuel too!