GT 6 physics messed up after 1.03 update ?

[andryush]

Suspension is flipped somehow?
Does this mean that if i enter values for rear springs, i actually entered them for front or what? Was this bug affecting all cars or only few?

 

[Sydbom]

Suspension is flipped somehow?
Does this mean that if i enter values for rear springs, i actually entered them for front or what? Was this bug affecting all cars or only few?

Yes that is right. But visually it was right. If you lowerd the front it was visually lowerd but it affected the back. But if this really was the case in gt6 or not nobody knows.
But seems so based on how that lancia behaved.
Probably affected all cars.

Drove the little rocket now, first time ever I spun it! THAT is a very big proof its something fundamentally is changed, never even felt like you could spin it! Now it feel like it will spin and it does. But still planted, not just as much, and it once again it feels more real then before! So there probably is a big bug fixed so that the cars now behave like they should have from the strart.
Its just to bad it feels less fun...

 

[CarreraGT]

Stock Diablo GT2 comes with sports hard tire

Check my tune for Diablo GT2 on RH tire, see if it helps :

Lamborghini Diablo GT2 '98 - 630HP, 552PP Racing Hard

I see, that would explain the lack of grip!

Thanks mate

 

[Voodoovaj]

I think instead of fixing the one or two nerfed MR's, they've just changed all cars.

Well, if there was a bug in the weight distribution (which is really easy to have, and easy to overlook) fixing it will affect every car.

Basically, if you had a tail heavy car that worked before, it will be REALLY tight now. A front heavy car will be a little unstable.

 

[Raf Laureys]

I have just done this little test : a few laps in the Mercedes Vision GT in arcade timetrial around Bathurst, ABS on 1 all other aids off on Sport hard tires. I have done this exact same thing before the 1.03 update and it was just awesome, it felt alive, real controllable and it was a blast to drive with exellent feedback trough the wheel. Now it's just terrible in comparison. The steering is just heavy without any feedback. While you get terrible understeer on turn in the heavy blunt feeling trough the wheel remains the same . When the rear steps out there is almost no feedback trough the wheel, the same heavy floaty feeling. Also while I could make make subtle corrections before and really see the reactions of the frontaxle it now feels like it floats. First it doesn't respond and then in most cases you overcorrect and it snaps around the other way. Just terrible. Out of seven cars I've tried yesterday that I found really awesome to drive before only the Honda NSX roadcar feels almost unaffected by the changes but all cars feel heavier, there is less feeling trough the wheel and a very poor response of the frontaxle. Racecars and sportscars should't understeer the way they do now.

 

[Scaff]

I think that what they have done is made tires loose grip a little more progressive! That would pretty much explain it all wouldnt it.
We complained over snappy tails, and they looked at the tires and gave us a tire that wasnt just on or off grip, but with a broader range of grip.

You are aware that's how tyres should be? One of the prime issues GT5 had was the lack of grip progression.

Racecars and sportscars should't understeer the way they do now.

Why shouldn't they?

 

[roadend1981]

Totally gutted is all I can say,to what they have done to some of my favourite cars. The m4 coupe feels like im on need for speed,or grid-they have totally ruined it for me.Cars now feel they have been dumbed down,slower responce,and no need now for little steering inputs,and throttle changes,as its been taken away.So disappointed,dont know how they could jump so far back in handling,loosing all that feel you once got. Luckily the bmw m5 still drives good,dosent seem to have been blessed with the new arcade handling.

 

[LVracerGT]

I haven't tested the changes, but I definitely noticed MR cars felt easier to drive. If they actually did nerf the physics from people complaining....

PD is going to drown if they don't get their act together. With all the racing titles coming with the PS4 (especially Project Cars), there's going to be a lot of people jumping ship. When sales are seriously low Sony won't be able to justify a budget for PD.

 

[Raf Laureys]

You are aware that's how tyres should be? One of the prime issues GT5 had was the lack of grip progression.


Why shouldn't they?

a) It's not the ideal way to go fast
b) We can argue about what feels good to drive to you or to me but understeer is not what I want when I want to have some enjoyment from driving.

 

[roadend1981]

I just hope they see sense,as it has seriously spoilt it for me. Had a mate call round earlier,we usually have a quick lap round the nurburgh, I had to tell him they have made an update and its cocked up the handling somehow (really cant face the thought of playing on it now,until this is sorted).

 

[trustjab]

Cars feel fine to me. Slight differences, but nothing major imo.

 

[Scaff]

a) It's not the ideal way to go fast

Neither's oversteer, but that has nothing to do with it.

The default handling balance of a sports/race car isn't oversteer by default, in a good number of circumstances it can and is understeer, doesn't mean its not right.

b) We can argue about what feels good to drive to you or to me but understeer is not what I want when I want to have some enjoyment from driving.

What someone prefers in terms of feel has nothing to do with changes making the physics model more or less accurate.

You said that sports/race cars shouldn't understeer as they do, that's a quite different to how you would like them to behave. Personally what I want them to do doesn't come into it, well apart from wanting them to do what they should given the laws of physics.

 

[Raf Laureys]

Neither's oversteer, but that has nothing to do with it.

The default handling balance of a sports/race car isn't oversteer by default, in a good number of circumstances it can and is understeer, doesn't mean its not right.


What someone prefers in terms of feel has nothing to do with changes making the physics model more or less accurate.

You said that sports/race cars shouldn't understeer as they do, that's a quite different to how you would like them to behave. Personally what I want them to do doesn't come into it, well apart from wanting them to do what they should given the laws of physics.

I understand your point. What I am trying to say is that to me (as I see - feel it)GT 6 in it's current state is flawed in such a way that on initial turn in it always feels like the car understeers or you don't feel the fronttires gripping or losing or regaining traction at all. Therefore the cars feel rather floaty and when you get oversteer you countersteer but there's a real lack of feel trough the wheel and you can't feel how much or how far you can correct, it feels just too floaty, and very artificial. If you turn in there should be more weight in the wheel as the fronttires grip. If you oversteer that pressure should feel gradually less as your tail swings further out. That sensation is completely absent in GT 6 right now. I really hope this get's fixed because it felt rather good before.

 

[Crispy]

a) It's not the ideal way to go fast
b) We can argue about what feels good to drive to you or to me but understeer is not what I want when I want to have some enjoyment from driving.

Any production car would be set up to understeer from the factory. If they didn't it would be suicide for the manufacturer.

Race cars are kinda similar. They won't be setup to oversteer because in endurance racing constant correction of oversteer would be exhausting, counterproductive to saving fuel and tires, and would slow down each lap. (Not to mention a car that has to do corners at 140+ constantly while oversteering slightly is incredibly dangerous)

EDIT: I see what you mean. Yes the FFB is really lacking with feelings of grip, one of the biggest gripes with the game.

 

[Grinsomat]

I do not think it is the Patch 1.03. The physics been "damaged/unfinished" from the beginning since the release and they weren`T able to fix that correct until now! With tyre wear turned off, it hasn`t got that big impact but still there, but as soon as tyre and fuel wear comes into it, GT6 just ****s it up! I have played all GT games from PS1 to PS3 and this one could have been the best one IMO, but atm it just feels terrible! I am using a wheel and no aids activated besides ABS on 1.
Just about the tyre wear, how can it be that I can do on the same car/setup with the same tyres at the same weather conditions , the 1st stint the rears are worn out to 5 after 6 laps, in the 2nd stint the same tyres are gone after 4 laps to 1 ! This does not make sense at all! Even though I can push the 1st 6 laps like hell and the last 4 laps I am driving on eggs to not ruin them! Same happens when I do 5/5 laps!
I can say I know what I am doing, I might not be one of the fastest drivers but I can surely lap very consitantly race times/hotlaps.
I also do have the feeling that at some point the TC is not turned off properly in the 1st stint, just slightly tunred on on 1 or so ( even if turned off in the menue) and after the pitstop it seems to be turned off. Cause always in the 2nd stint the tyres screetch as soon as you just think of touching the accelerator which does not happen in the 1st stin!

Physics wise, beside the tyre wear problem, the game felt way better in the beginning than now!
I do not like that a car behaves different every day I come back to GT6, and I do not mean cause of the patch! It is like there are 3 different base settings in the background which the car chooses from each day and you`ll never know which one you are running atm!

I do hope they get it right pretty soon, cause at the moment it feels like I payed money for a unfished GT5 addon!
All this critic does not mean that I do not like GT6 but atm it pinches my nerves!

 

[roadend1981]

I do not think it is the Patch 1.03. The physics been "damaged/unfinished" from the beginning since the release and they weren`T able to fix that correct until now! With tyre wear turned off, it hasn`t got that big impact but still there, but as soon as tyre and fuel wear comes into it, GT6 just ****s it up! I have played all GT games from PS1 to PS3 and this one could have been the best one IMO, but atm it just feels terrible! I am using a wheel and no aids activated besides ABS on 1.
Just about the tyre wear, how can it be that I can do on the same car/setup with the same tyres at the same weather conditions , the 1st stint the rears are worn out to 5 after 6 laps, in the 2nd stint the same tyres are gone after 4 laps to 1 ! This does not make sense at all! Even though I can push the 1st 6 laps like hell and the last 4 laps I am driving on eggs to not ruin them! Same happens when I do 5/5 laps!
I can say I know what I am doing, I might not be one of the fastest drivers but I can surely lap very consitantly race times/hotlaps.
I also do have the feeling that at some point the TC is not turned off properly in the 1st stint, just slightly tunred on on 1 or so ( even if turned off in the menue) and after the pitstop it seems to be turned off. Cause always in the 2nd stint the tyres screetch as soon as you just think of touching the accelerator which does not happen in the 1st stin!

Physics wise, beside the tyre wear problem, the game felt way better in the beginning than now!
I do not like that a car behaves different every day I come back to GT6, and I do not mean cause of the patch! It is like there are 3 different base settings in the background which the car chooses from each day and you`ll never know which one you are running atm!

I do hope they get it right pretty soon, cause at the moment it feels like I payed money for a unfished GT5 addon!
All this critic does not mean that I do not like GT6 but atm it pinches my nerves!

This problem only started for me on the latest update,its like gt6 for dummies,it was pretty much spot on for most cars ive tried before,now they have corrupted the handling.please gt6,I will wait.....for the next update,hopefully you will revert the damage you have done to the handling (it was so good before), and give me back the control,fine throttle adjustments,and steering inputs I once had,otherwise im gonna go waste some time on terraria and minecraft,till you realise most your fanbase are doing the same.please pd,as I know theres plenty of others who feel the same.

 

[Scaff]

I understand your point. What I am trying to say is that to me (as I see - feel it)GT 6 in it's current state is flawed in such a way that on initial turn in it always feels like the car understeers or you don't feel the fronttires gripping or losing or regaining traction at all. Therefore the cars feel rather floaty and when you get oversteer you countersteer but there's a real lack of feel trough the wheel and you can't feel how much or how far you can correct, it feels just too floaty, and very artificial. If you turn in there should be more weight in the wheel as the fronttires grip. If you oversteer that pressure should feel gradually less as your tail swings further out. That sensation is completely absent in GT 6 right now. I really hope this get's fixed because it felt rather good before.

Not sure why your finding that because the difference I'm seeing between 1.03 and before is not of that scale and certainly not of that nature.

 

[Sydbom]

You are aware that's how tyres should be? One of the prime issues GT5 had was the lack of grip progression.


Why shouldn't they?

Of course, thats what I am saying also. It feels more realistic now. Problem is that I liked the feedback and control before.
Problem with realism is that it feels much different in real life then it actually is.
Pgr2 is one of very few car games that made you feel like you do when you drive, but it was very far from realistic.
Film yourself driving and it feels like the most boring film ever, even though you had a blast behind the wheel.
You have too do something with the film to be able to get the person watching to feel how it really was, and its this problem all car games struggle with!

 

[Scaff]

Of course, thats what I am saying also. It feels more realistic now. Problem is that I liked the feedback and control before.
Problem with realism is that it feels much different in real life then it actually is.
Pgr2 is one of very few car games that made you feel like you do when you drive, but it was very far from realistic.
Film yourself driving and it feels like the most boring film ever, even though you had a blast behind the wheel.
You have too do something with the film to be able to get the person watching to feel how it really was, and its this problem all car games struggle with!

Each to his own.

What I'm after from a driving sim is for it to be like it actually is, that I don't find boring at all (PGR2 in my case most certainly doesn't make me feel like I do when I drive - as the manner in which the cars react to the forces acting upon them and the inputs made don't work as they should).

 

[IneedSchool]

⠀

 

[menos | M6]

I did not follow through these threads regarding physics changes through the recent patches.
Only one thing I realised Today, when trying to pick up a Audi R8 LMS:

I ran this car on Highspeed Ring (a great track to check out your LSD setup through the long sweeping turns).

What immediately became clear was that the stock setup of the Audi R8 LMS was undrivable.
The moment, you would just slightly lift the throttle of the car, it would immediately oversteer, as if having set no differential lock.

I experimented with the differential settings first and even completely locked the differential and completely unlocked it - the difference in behaviour from the rear axle was only marginal !!!

I then tried to remedy the behaviour with tweaks to the chassis, set much more stable toe settings on the rear axle, neutralised the front, used heavier downforce, …

The car would not be getting into a neutral driving behaviour this way.

I am sure, something has been changed to the physics of this car, as I have used it with the stock version of GT6 offline before patching the software and won some races with it (one of them at Le Mans and no such behaviour was indicated).

For now I have stored the Audi in the scrapyard and await a future patch - here is clearly something wrong.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I did not follow through these threads regarding physics changes through the recent patches.
Only one thing I realised Today, when trying to pick up a Audi R8 LMS:

I ran this car on Highspeed Ring (a great track to check out your LSD setup through the long sweeping turns).

What immediately became clear was that the stock setup of the Audi R8 LMS was undrivable.
The moment, you would just slightly lift the throttle of the car, it would immediately oversteer, as if having set no differential lock.

I experimented with the differential settings first and even completely locked the differential and completely unlocked it - the difference in behaviour from the rear axle was only marginal !!!

I then tried to remedy the behaviour with tweaks to the chassis, set much more stable toe settings on the rear axle, neutralised the front, used heavier downforce, …

The car would not be getting into a neutral driving behaviour this way.

I am sure, something has been changed to the physics of this car, as I have used it with the stock version of GT6 offline before patching the software and won some races with it (one of them at Le Mans and no such behaviour was indicated).

For now I have stored the Audi in the scrapyard and await a future patch - here is clearly something wrong.

Ridox actually has a tune that helps tame this demon.

For more detail: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...t2-aventador-lp700.294814/page-3#post-9237508

 

[LVracerGT]

Any production car would be set up to understeer from the factory. If they didn't it would be suicide for the manufacturer.

Race cars are kinda similar. They won't be setup to oversteer because in endurance racing constant correction of oversteer would be exhausting, counterproductive to saving fuel and tires, and would slow down each lap. (Not to mention a car that has to do corners at 140+ constantly while oversteering slightly is incredibly dangerous)

EDIT: I see what you mean. Yes the FFB is really lacking with feelings of grip, one of the biggest gripes with the game.

Actually, sports cars aren't set up to understeer from the factory anymore. I think it was Car and Driver, or Motortrend, wrote an article about the 50 greatest advancements to the modern car. Almost at the top of the list was stability control. At first I called BS, but they made a really good point. Stability control allows manufacturers to create far more neutral (and ultimately better) handling cars, and the systems keep the car pointed in the right direction and allow people with less driving skill to experience it without killing themselves, and the people who know how to handle the cars without the systems can turn them off and get more of a knife edge and fun driving experience without understeer built in from the get go.👍

 

[Sydbom]

Each to his own.

What I'm after from a driving sim is for it to be like it actually is, that I don't find boring at all (PGR2 in my case most certainly doesn't make me feel like I do when I drive - as the manner in which the cars react to the forces acting upon them and the inputs made don't work as they should).

Its the feelings, not the physics.

 

[jimipitbull]

Its the feelings, not the physics.

It's more likely the astronomy simulation, the current phase of lunar cycle.

Philosophers Aristotle and Pliny the Elder argued that the full moon induced insanity in susceptible individuals, believing that the brain, which is mostly water, must be affected by the Moon and its power over the tides, but the Moon's gravity is too slight to affect any single person.

 

[menos | M6]

Ridox actually has a tune that helps tame this demon.

For more detail: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...t2-aventador-lp700.294814/page-3#post-9237508

Thanks a lot - I will give this a shot and play with the setup again.

My only doubt about this is, that I rode this car already before the update and it behaved not as extreme like this.
What makes me wonder is that LSD lock changes do impact so very little on the R8 LMS, whereas with other cars changing ±5 clicks makes for a very big impact in behaviour (this is not just at high speed, but can be felt already in the slow 3rd gear turns on Highspeed Ring, that setting the LSD from one extreme to another has very little impact on the rear end behaviour with the R8 LMS).

 

[autech91]

Here's a test for you, I don't know if this was present before the update but grab a Stock Fiat 500 Abarth and jam on the breaks at high speed, massive weight transfer to the front wheels (seems to be in all the small FF cars this happens).
If you do the Italian series in IB (I think) go do the Cote d' Azur race and watch all the cars going on to the two front wheels up the top of the hill braking in to the left hand sweeper as they crest. When I get a chance I'm going to go see if with some tinkering the 500 can do a forward roll! Should be a laugh but looks silly when you see it.

 

[Scaff]

Its the feelings, not the physics.

The thread is about changes to the physics, and grip progression (which was one of the points you made) is a factor of physics, yes it does then have an effect on feel, buts it root is in the physics.

 

[menos | M6]

Here's a test for you, I don't know if this was present before the update but grab a Stock Fiat 500 Abarth and jam on the breaks at high speed, massive weight transfer to the front wheels (seems to be in all the small FF cars this happens).
If you do the Italian series in IB (I think) go do the Cote d' Azur race and watch all the cars going on to the two front wheels up the top of the hill braking in to the left hand sweeper as they crest. When I get a chance I'm going to go see if with some tinkering the 500 can do a forward roll! Should be a laugh but looks silly when you see it.

I was wondering about this!
I completed the first tier races, running smaller cars before I installed any updates to GT6 and did not see anything unusual back then.

After I started from scratch again a few days ago, going through the same lower tier races, I found it very curious indeed to see some cars in certain situations hammering into their brakes in front of me, almost flipping over!
At one occasion, I could have sworn, I saw a car making a stand on it's front wheels!

I didn't think much about it when I saw it other than it was a bit unusual …

 

[andryush]

Thanks a lot - I will give this a shot and play with the setup again.

My only doubt about this is, that I rode this car already before the update and it behaved not as extreme like this.
What makes me wonder is that LSD lock changes do impact so very little on the R8 LMS, whereas with other cars changing ±5 clicks makes for a very big impact in behaviour (this is not just at high speed, but can be felt already in the slow 3rd gear turns on Highspeed Ring, that setting the LSD from one extreme to another has very little impact on the rear end behaviour with the R8 LMS).

In 1.02 LSD changes impacted car properly. My setting was basicly reying on good LSD setting, which allowed me to exit corners with full thortle and not to spin.
R8 LMS tends to oversteer in midcorner at low speeds, i think it's related to strange weight transfer and damper settings. My setup looked really strange, not like in other cars, for example damper rebound rates were lower than compression.

In 1.03 my setup was broken due to changes in physics ;/