I've had many a discussion with Scaff, who is a professional driver, and as I recall he mentioned that using engine braking as a means to slow the car (rather than simply to keep the transmission in the proper gear and engine in the right RPM range) is a misconception of its purpose and a sign of poor driving. It remains a useful tool to initiate oversteer (as in drifting), or to help rotate the car into the corner, but the point here is that in any decent simulator it should pose a risk to the driver, with suitable punishment (loss of control).
Wow, not heard from you in a while, good to see you back.
As long as you have all the driver aids (as well as ABS) turned off it can bit you in GT5, use manual gears and while the game will still effectively heal and toe for you, if you shift too early it will 'screw it up' and you get a degree of unwelcome engine braking. Its caught me out on the hard braking area into the first hairpin at Grand Valley.
Its not as pronounced as it can be in the real world, but some of that I put down to the game attempting to heel and toe for you at the same time. Without a full rig with a clutch (which alas I don't currently have) I would not be able to tell you what effect it has with no attempt to rev-match at all.
That aside it's a more than welcome development, even if its not a full simulation of how nasty it can be in the real world.
So to contribute to the quandary in this thread...does GT5 model lift-off oversteer correctly? Is there a difference whether you lift at, say, 2000rpm versus 7000rpm? If lift-off oversteer is lacking, it could be causing the understeer issues here (while not affecting the remainder of cornering behavior very much).
To answer your question (with the caveat that you know I like to spend a lot of time with any game before answering definitively).
No, its doesn't model it 100% correctly, but it does do it better that in the past and certainly the prime accusation leveled in the original post, that its similar to GT4's understeer, is well wide of the mark.
I've given it a go in a Phase 1 Clio V6, for two main reasons, one being its a car known to be prone to lift-off oversteer and two, because its a car I have a lot of experience with (sat on the product launch committee for it and managed the customer launch training). You can certainly get the car to trim the line and step out by backing off the throttle in GT5, but its not the same 'face the wrong way if you get it really wrong' situation that can happen in the real world. However I do have to add that no sim on the market has yet got how nasty the lift-off oversteer on the Phase 1 right. However GT5 is up with the best of the rest and for me certainly gets the 'feel' of the car right. The on-throttle rotation and the heavy understeer if you don't set the car up right for a corner are all correct to the real thing. The nose even 'bobs' a bit at high speed on bumpy tracks, just as it should.
I for one would be extremely interested to know your thoughts on GT5, once you get a chance to spend some time with it.
Scaff, that 'snow' on that day happened during the early hours and I walked to work to start at 6am. It was pretty much gone by mid-day.
Which is still, I'm sure you will acknowledge, different from saying you had no snow.
As for the sense of speed, to me it feels much slower than reality and unlike driving a real car, which is just instinctive, GT still seems to require far too much thought process. If I actually felt the car was doing 160 and not what felt like half that when I arrived at a corner, then instinctively I would have braked within reasonable distance.
The lack of 'feel' will always be an issue with any sim, however I've never myself had a major issue with the supposed 'lack' of speed in the GT series.
Most race tracks are very wide, and as such the sense of speed does disappear in the real world. As an example 150mph+ on the high speed track at MIRA (which has huge run offs) actually feels much slower than doing 60mph down some of the country roads on my daily drive to work.
I actually have a harder time with most games that artificially add in speed blur to the drivers view, that for me is far more fake and harder to judge.
I know you love to jump on the defensive with regards to myself, but I don't think a genuine request for information from a forum moderator should be met with derision and attempted belittlement.
I don't jump on the defensive with you at all and nothing in my posts even comes close to it.
I do however disagree with you on a number of issues and have no problem in saying so. I also find it quite surprising that someone who appears to have a relatively limited degree of experience when it comes to driving on the limit (on or off the track) can make such definitive statements. I've a large degree of experience in this are (its been my working life for well over a decade and my passion for far longer than that) , yet I would certainly not be as definitive as you are being.
Derision and attempted belittlement? No. An uncertainly that you have the real world experience to make such definitive claims? Yes.
Scaff
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