GT Series track list is getting STALE

VXR
For a Japanese developer, it has just struck me as odd that they haven't ever embraced Touge for a track idea, or hill climbing (apart from Goodwood in GT6).

Those two ideas alone would add something new, with tighter turns and more of an eye on technique than bald speed.
Probably the same reason a lot of things don't appear, Kaz. His preference has always been highway driving, I recall him saying during covid he spent a lot of time driving on the empty highway routes. I've never seen him say anything about touge style roads.

So that's why we had the SSR tracks in the old games and Tokyo Expressway in S/7. Because that's what Kaz wants in his game.
 
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I probably lean the other way.

There are tracks I adore, all of them has a flow or rythm I love. Interlagos, Spa, Monza, Brands, Suzuka, andTokyo being my favourites with a masochistic affinity for Willow.

For me it is the variety of challenge that PD can exploit. Weather changes, fuel and tire deg, limitations on pp or class or country of origin to make me think and adapt and overcome all whilst learning the idiosyncrasies of any particular track.

If there were 20 different races at Spa, from 5 lappers to 3 hour enduros, making me try FR, MR, Italian, German, Gr3, Gr2, 1 stoppers, 2 stoppers, 4 stoppers with rain and day to night, then I would be delighted.

No new code for tracks or cars required. Just use what they have to the max.
 
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Having just got past 14,000 miles driven, i tend to agree with OP. Yes daily races keep things interesting but when I feel like playing as a single player, i do get a "been there, done that" feeling lately.

I am doing over the licenses now (going for all gold) to change a things bit and also same for circuit experience and Missions but it does sometimes feel frustrating.

Don't think a million new tracks are needed and to be honest, even adding Group 2 and 1 events in single player on current tracks would be fresh, but yeah, something is needed I think.
 
As you live in Singapore, could you tell me if there is any contractual impediment, if there is any exclusivity agreement with FOM or the circuit royalties belong to the local authorities? Would it be possible for PD to take Singapore to GT7?
F1 and law aren't really my thing, but I'll see what I can find. No promises, though.
 
Probably the same reason a lot of things don't appear, Kaz. His preference has always been highway driving, I recall him saying during covid he spent a lot of time driving on the empty highway routes. I've never seen him say anything about touge style roads.

So that's why we had the SSR tracks in the old games and Tokyo Expressway in S/7. Because that's what Kaz wants in his game.
Even then he's skimped on the crusing aspect players create. A highway route the length of Nurb24 or Isle of Mann. He added the dang tolls. Imagine driving beyond those in Time Trial or Custom Races.
Now that you mentioned it, I can sort of see where St. Croix tries to mimic La Sarthe as a public road and Sargena as a country back road.
Route X is a missed opportunity to send players on a trip through those hills.

I'd like to see Dragon Trail circuits combine to make Voltr... Err, one big circuit. I really don't know what to
expect from Kaz.
 
I've been thinking the same

I just did a rough tally of how many tracks there are in iRacing (yes you have to pay for them, sigh) ... worked out to be

42 Road Tracks with some having as many as 8 layouts available (maybe 139 Configurations? total if including the base layout in the count) ... + 11 Additional Oval Circuits that include road layouts (also with about 21 Configurations or layouts with those as well) Its possible I missed one or 2 though ... also keep in mind some of the layouts are either crap or never used, but can't argue that the variety is there


By comparison GT7 has?? I think off the top of my head .... 13 Real World Circuits?? (about 16 Configurations total)

mind you If I had my choice I'm torn between GT7 adding read world vs fictional (I personally lean slightly towards adding past Gran Turismo Tracks rather than only real world but thats only because I feel many past tracks should have been included to begin with

I have personal favourites from the list but who doesn't ... I don't like F1 style tracks, I prefer winding roads like Sonoma, LimeRock park, Oulton Park etc... those are generally more fun to drive vs tracks that are only fun to race, like Circuit of the Americas... its pretty **** to drive by yourself yet I have great races there.... tracks that are good for both get my vote though.

iRacing Dedicated Road Courses

Imola – GP
Imola – Moto

Monza – 7 (Configurations)

Brazil – GP
Brazil – Moto

Barber – GP
Barber – Short A
Barber – Short B

Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch – Indy


Mosport Park – Canadian Tire Motorsports Park

Caltalunya – GP (6 Configurations)

Spa – Circuit de Spa Francorchamps

LeMans – GP
LeMans – Historic

Circuit Gille-Villeneuve – Montreal

Circuit of the Americas – Grand Prix
Circuit of the Americas – East
Circuit of the Americas – West

Donnington – Grand Prix
Donnington – National

HockenheimRing (7 Configurations)

Hungaroring

Knockhill (6 Configurations)

Laguna Seca – Weathertech Raceway

LimeRock Park (4 Configurations)

LongBeach Street Circuit

Lankenbanen (Hell RX) – Road

Mid Ohio (5 Configurations)

Mount Panorama Circuit

Nurbergring GrandPrix (6 Configurations)
Nurbergring Nordschleife
Nurbergring Combined (4 Configurations)

Belle Isle – Detroit

Okayama – Grand Prix
Okayama – Short

Oran Park – Grand Prix (6 Configurations)

Oulton Park Circuit (8 Configurations)

Phillip Island Circuit

Red Bull Ring GP
Red Bull National

Red Bull North

Road America Full Course
Road America Bend

Road Atlanta – Full
Road Atlanta – Club
Road Atlanta – Short

Sebring – International
Sebring – Club
Sebring – Modified

Silverstone Circuit – GP
Silverstone Circuit – International
Silverstone Circuit – National

Snettertone (3 Configurations)

Sonoma Raceway (6 Configurations)

Summit Point Raceway (5 Configurations)

Suzuka Circuit (5 Configurations)

Tskuba Circuit (7 Configurations)

Twin Ring Motegi

VIR – Virginia International Raceway (7 Configurations)

Watkins Glen (4 Configurations)

Zandvoort GP (5 Configurations)

Zolder

=======================================

Ovals (That include a Road Track)


Atlanta Motor Speedway – Road

Auto Club Speedway – Moto

Charlotte – Roval
Charlotte – Legends RC Medium
Charlotte – Legends RC Long

Daytona – Road
Daytona – Moto
Daytona – Nascar Road

Homstead Miami Speedway – Road A
Homstead Miami Speedway – Road B

Indy Road Course
Indy – Moto

Kansas Speedway – Road Course

LasVegas Speedway – Road Course Combined
LasVegas Speedway – Road Course Long
LasVegas Speedway – Road Course Short

NewHampshire – Road
NewHampshire – Road with South Oval
NewHampshire – Road with North Oval

Rockingham – Road
 
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Some above have commented that a single track takes two years to produce by PD. In the current technological of the games industry and with the current number of employees at PD (unless I am mistaken, the PD would have increased to 400 employees), I am very skeptical about this period. Even because, nowadays, there are outsourced services and studios that can be hired to do the work.

In several videos on YT, we see amateurs who digitized the streets of their neighborhood by themselves, created their own circuits in the Assetto Corsa Mod, using commercial photogametry software.

I could be wrong, but I think the problem with the scarcity of content (especially tracks) is not about production time. Perhaps, pettiness of not wanting to pay for licensing, or gamedesign choice. Or even simply a matter of priorities. Perhaps, scapes, photography resources, historiography, rally music (music royalties) are more important for PD than increasing the number of real circuits.



 
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I would say it is bizarre that a racing game potentially can get 10million copies sold don't bother to make one new track available at release. I understand time and cost to remodel a track but are they not what their profit and years of development should be invested in?
 
I would say it is bizarre that a racing game potentially can get 10million copies sold don't bother to make one new track available at release. I understand time and cost to remodel a track but are they not what their profit and years of development should be invested in?
Unfortunately PD and GT are in the position where they can get away with just about anything. They've got away with producing racing games without any proper racing offline for over a decade and can clearly also get away with not adding new tracks and only 50 new cars to a new game.

How long that name, past reputation and lack of direct lack of competition will allow it to continue is anyone's guess.
 
I have been a diehard GT fan since day 1. I actually bought a PS1 purely for GT. In terms of simcade, no one is even close. I had high hopes for GT7, but the track list has me a bit burned out.

How many times do we need to race the same "flagship" tracks? Project Cars 2 is a very flawed game, but it has the best track list of any console racing game ever made. It's not even close.

I am just a little bored with the idea of more races at Spa, Suzuka or Brands Hatch. The track list is in need of a major overhaul. I know that in order to add tracks they would have to remove some from previous titles, and I am all for it. In terms of North America alone, there are so many gems that have not been given the love they deserve on console:

Mid Ohio
VIR
Road Atlanta
Road America
Lime Rock
Barber Motorsports

That's not counting any tracks in Europe such as Oulton Park, Zolder, Snetterton and many many others.

I can't imagine them changing the formula, but the thought of racing at Spa, Suzuka and Laguna Seca has me a bit bored.
the track list would be fine if they just utilized some of thr other tracks they already have in the game there is atleast 10-15 tracks that thepayouts are so weak nobody races there i just went over a few in circuit experience.. kyoto driving park has an awesome track there litterally isnt even a single race on
 
I've been thinking the same

I just did a rough tally of how many tracks there are in iRacing (yes you have to pay for them, sigh) ... worked out to be

42 Road Tracks with some having as many as 8 layouts available (maybe 139 Configurations? total if including the base layout in the count) ... + 11 Additional Oval Circuits that include road layouts (also with about 21 Configurations or layouts with those as well) Its possible I missed one or 2 though ... also keep in mind some of the layouts are either crap or never used, but can't argue that the variety is there


By comparison GT7 has?? I think off the top of my head .... 13 Real World Circuits?? (about 16 Configurations total)

mind you If I had my choice I'm torn between GT7 adding read world vs fictional (I personally lean slightly towards adding past Gran Turismo Tracks rather than only real world but thats only because I feel many past tracks should have been included to begin with

I have personal favourites from the list but who doesn't ... I don't like F1 style tracks, I prefer winding roads like Sonoma, LimeRock park, Oulton Park etc... those are generally more fun to drive vs tracks that are only fun to race, like Circuit of the Americas... its pretty **** to drive by yourself yet I have great races there.... tracks that are good for both get my vote though.

iRacing Dedicated Road Courses

Imola – GP
Imola – Moto

Monza – 7 (Configurations)

Brazil – GP
Brazil – Moto

Barber – GP
Barber – Short A
Barber – Short B

Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch – Indy


Mosport Park – Canadian Tire Motorsports Park

Caltalunya – GP (6 Configurations)

Spa – Circuit de Spa Francorchamps

LeMans – GP
LeMans – Historic

Circuit Gille-Villeneuve – Montreal

Circuit of the Americas – Grand Prix
Circuit of the Americas – East
Circuit of the Americas – West

Donnington – Grand Prix
Donnington – National

HockenheimRing (7 Configurations)

Hungaroring

Knockhill (6 Configurations)

Laguna Seca – Weathertech Raceway

LimeRock Park (4 Configurations)

LongBeach Street Circuit

Lankenbanen (Hell RX) – Road

Mid Ohio (5 Configurations)

Mount Panorama Circuit

Nurbergring GrandPrix (6 Configurations)
Nurbergring Nordschleife
Nurbergring Combined (4 Configurations)

Belle Isle – Detroit

Okayama – Grand Prix
Okayama – Short

Oran Park – Grand Prix (6 Configurations)

Oulton Park Circuit (8 Configurations)

Phillip Island Circuit

Red Bull Ring GP
Red Bull National

Red Bull North

Road America Full Course
Road America Bend

Road Atlanta – Full
Road Atlanta – Club
Road Atlanta – Short

Sebring – International
Sebring – Club
Sebring – Modified

Silverstone Circuit – GP
Silverstone Circuit – International
Silverstone Circuit – National

Snettertone (3 Configurations)

Sonoma Raceway (6 Configurations)

Summit Point Raceway (5 Configurations)

Suzuka Circuit (5 Configurations)

Tskuba Circuit (7 Configurations)

Twin Ring Motegi

VIR – Virginia International Raceway (7 Configurations)

Watkins Glen (4 Configurations)

Zandvoort GP (5 Configurations)

Zolder

=======================================

Ovals (That include a Road Track)


Atlanta Motor Speedway – Road

Auto Club Speedway – Moto

Charlotte – Roval
Charlotte – Legends RC Medium
Charlotte – Legends RC Long

Daytona – Road
Daytona – Moto
Daytona – Nascar Road

Homstead Miami Speedway – Road A
Homstead Miami Speedway – Road B

Indy Road Course
Indy – Moto

Kansas Speedway – Road Course

LasVegas Speedway – Road Course Combined
LasVegas Speedway – Road Course Long
LasVegas Speedway – Road Course Short

NewHampshire – Road
NewHampshire – Road with South Oval
NewHampshire – Road with North Oval

Rockingham – Road
iRacing's track list is almost perfect. Ironically, GT has the only tracks iRacing needs: Suzuka, Fuji, Tsukuba.
 
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Still surprised we never saw Silverstone return in GTS. Its variants would have been good for more Sport Mode. If it returns for GT7, wonder if it would receive an update for the GT3 start/finish line.
 
Still surprised we never saw Silverstone return in GTS. Its variants would have been good for more Sport Mode. If it returns for GT7, wonder if it would receive an update for the GT3 start/finish line.
I'd love to know why it wasn't in GTS, did they lose the licence? For me it's strange that it isn't there, it's the one main track in Europe not in the game...
 
I'd love to know why it wasn't in GTS, did they lose the licence? For me it's strange that it isn't there, it's the one main track in Europe not in the game...
It's surprising! After all, small developers can bring legendary circuits to their games, but PD with all its marketing power, Sony, budget, can't.

No console game has rivalled Project CARS 2 for tracks IMO, at least real ones anyway.

The Toca WTC game on PS1 was also really good but most of them were badly inaccurate and, well, it was PS1.
Perhaps the best thing that happened to us is that GT7 came out before Forza 8 and Assetto Corsa 2. When these two games come out, comparisons to GT7 will be unavoidable, and I believe comparisons will be heavy and harsh, visceral and wild.

I assume this will hurt not only Sony's commercial pride, it should hurt PD's moral pride as well. I think the pressure will be high against the PD, not only in terms of graphics, but especially with regard to the content of the tracks and cars.

By the way, one of the successful elements of the Gran Turismo franchise is related to personality and identity. One of the main characters of the franchise was its original circuits. The pinnacle of the franchise was GT4. And it was precisely for having implemented the incredible and ingenious idea of bringing original circuits in real cities and feasible routes.

If GT7 brought the city circuits again, like Seattle, Opera Paris, George V, New York, Rome, Seattle, Seoul, London, Madrid, as well as new ones like Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Santiago, Las Vegas, Miami, Barcelona, Berlin, Prague, it would be a fantastic game. I think it's not difficult due to modern scanning, photogametry technologies and Google Earth.
 
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It's surprising! After all, small developers can bring legendary circuits to their games, but PD with all its marketing power, Sony, budget, can't.


Perhaps, the best thing that happened to us is that GT7 came out before Forza 8 and Assetto Corsa 2. When these two games are released, comparisons with GT7 will be inevitable, and I believe it will be visceral and wild, because of the wars of consoles that only increases. I think the pressure will be high against GT7, not only in terms of graphics, but especially with regard to the content of tracks and cars.

By the way, one of the successful elements of the Gran Turismo franchise is related to personality and identity. One of the main characters of the franchise was its original circuits. The pinnacle of the franchise was GT4. And it was precisely for having implemented the incredible and ingenious idea of bringing original circuits in real cities and feasible routes.

If GT7 brought the city circuits again, like Opera Paris, George V, New York, Rome, Seattle, London, Madrid, as well as new ones like Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Los Angeles, Miami, Barcelona, Seoul, Berlin, it would be a fantastic game. I think it's not difficult due to current scanning and photogametry technologies.
Seriously, the only way this game will be good, IF certain tracks returned, would be based on how PD use the content. PD could add the same amount of Trak content as PC2, but if PD are like Ricky Bobby and don't know what to do with their hands, the game remains the same as today.

I have to repeat, those of us that are creating our own fun, welcome any new tracks. However, those relying on PD to pave/guide the way,will be disappointed time and again.
 
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How long that name, past reputation and lack of direct lack of competition will allow it to continue is anyone's guess.
A long time. When was the last Need for Speed game that was widely considered to be good? Hot Pursuit?

Big franchises potentially just keep on keeping on. As long as they're making money each time, none of the management care whether the game is genre defining or just another mediocre stocking stuffer. But gamers care, and devs should care.
iRacing's track list is almost perfect. Ironically, GT has the only tracks iRacing needs: Suzuka, Fuji, Tsukuba.
Iracing has Suzuka and Tsukuba. And Fuji is supposedly coming this year.
 
You forgot iRacing doesnt have Autopolis either....is that Track even real? ....when I first fell in love with it in Sport I thought it had to fictional Track

But Fuji Would be great....I actually get frustrated sometimes with how many I have yet to master....especially when some arent in rotation enough..so They randomly throw in Sonoma or Snetterton or Barber and it might litterally be a year or more since I last raced them.....
 
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Actually racing at Isle of Man in GT is a great idea until you think about it

Too narrow for passing

Could make at least 6 tracks for the same amount of assets

Plays into PDs weaknesses (wall contact penalties)

Just make a 10km fictitious track inspired by Isle of Man and old Spa and other old road circuits then everyone's happy. PD were on the right track with Grindelwald - tracks like St Croix look out of place anywhere. That way you have time up your sleeve to design more tracks to appeal to others.
 
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Don’t know why they don’t put those German tracks nobody really cares about like Norisring, Lausitzring and Hockenheimring now that is no longer part of F1. They must be dirt cheap and would be welcome additions. Also Sebring, c’mon, perfect track for GT.
 
Don’t know why they don’t put those German tracks nobody really cares about like Norisring, Lausitzring and Hockenheimring now that is no longer part of F1. They must be dirt cheap and would be welcome additions. Also Sebring, c’mon, perfect track for GT.
As I said before, I assume it's a matter of game design priority and philosophy.

I have the impression that Kaz-PD, after the success of the first four games, was attacked by an elitist and artistic presumption of not wanting to be content with making a great and complete racing game anymore, but a pretentiously, let's say, post-modern racing game. An objective and pragmatic vision for a racing game was abandoned, keeping the necessary and artistic appeal and claiming, in favor of a chic and elitist vision of wanting to be revolutionary and different.

In this way, instead of paying royalties for new circuits, they prefer to pay royalties for music, photographs and other superfluous things, which, objectively, only pleases a very small niche of GT users. Most GT users still want a complete racing game, with as many cars and tracks as possible, spread over many different championships and leagues.
 
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An idea for Isle of Man - make it a rally/time attack. Perhaps per-sector or designated sections on the track.

Another mode you could make out of it is a knockout stage - again divided into sectors/sections, where the slowest x amount of cars are eliminated after each sector (this may already be a thing in rallying but I don't know much about the format so forgive me if it is).

Have the current elimination time be a ghost car, so as long as you're in front of that, you're good. Then, in the final sector, it's P1 and P2 battling for the win - again ghosted, but it allows you to have a race without running into the issue of space.
 
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I think creating the Isle of Man track would take a lot of time and money, as well as considerable space on the console's HDD. That way, it would be very counterproductive to build a huge circuit that wouldn't be of much use for competitive and online racing. And it would be much worse if this huge track was dedicated only to Time Attack.

As the brazilian says, the best way is to make beans and rice, that is, less is more, do the simple and the objective. This is it PD needs to do: bring famous circuits, city circuits and original circuits. After that, it distributes them all in national, continental and branded leagues.
 
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I think creating the Isle of Man track would take a lot of time and money, as well as considerable space on the console's HDD. That way, it would be very counterproductive to build a huge circuit that wouldn't be of much use for competitive and online racing. And it would be much worse if this huge track was dedicated only to Time Attack.
Yes, indeed, it is not an efficient track to make. But I was just suggesting a way Isle of Man could work if it was built, since racing wouldn't really be possible (or good).

Isle of Man should not be a main priority when other circuit/city/original tracks could be added. If they do build Isle of Man, I think it should be when the rest of the track list is satisfactory.

Budget/time wise, it also doesn't make sense to prioritise Isle of Man when, as others have said, multiple other, smaller tracks could be created in the same timeframe.
 
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