GT Sport Hacks?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Voodoovaj, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. KungFury

    KungFury (Banned)

    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    United States
    It's the two foot driving from the days of old gt4 when gas/brake pressed and equalized throughout the lap made it fast. It doesn't matter what the method is though, if the game allows it, enables it, and rewards it, use it if you wish.

    I've not seen anything to remotely convince me of any hacking going on, for the most part I'm just as if not faster than those doing whatever it is the rest are complaining of anyway so it's not a bother to me :tup:
     
  2. Mr P

    Mr P

    Messages:
    9,852
    I edited above sorry mate wrong guy :p Doh! :dunce:
     
    KungFury likes this.
  3. Iceman

    Iceman Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    5,491
    Location:
    United States
    Unfortunately it's more than CSA, there's definitely something else going on. I was scrolling through the leaderboards when that Megane lap at Nurb GP was up, and watched the replay as I was curious how he was so far ahead of others (post #44 in this thread). Unfortunately you can't load it as a ghost, but I immediately went to time trial to test it myself - that time is 100% impossible with any combination of aids, especially considering the lines he took. I tried it all, ASM, CSA, ABS, no ABS, wheel, DS4 - nothing would lead me to believe that lap makes sense without something very fishy going on :(
     
    EDK, KungFury and Doodle like this.
  4. KungFury

    KungFury (Banned)

    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    United States
    Do you recall if the lap was set early on in the event? I vaguely remember something in 5 or 5p where wrong tires slipped in.

    Maybe there is a bug exploit with the megane as that would not surprise me, something like the ol camber crap on the wrx.

    Checking top speed and apex speeds would be something worth investigating but you already knew that, it sounds like it's something to do with the car imo, a game allowed manipulation of some sort.
     
  5. Mr P

    Mr P

    Messages:
    9,852
    Well I haven't run the TT's in a few days now and probably should have before I made my post.. seems like it's all gone to the dogs and I aint missing much :tdown:
     
  6. Iceman

    Iceman Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    5,491
    Location:
    United States
    Whatever it is, I honestly don't think it's too widespread but there is at least that one habitual offender in NA (who is putting up times every day like this). It is demotivating though, especially when you think about what would happen if a guy who could put a decent looking lap together got ahold of it.

    I don't think so - the replay shows the correct tires in any case. I also tried fitting the intermediate tires on the rear thinking it might be some crazy way to get rid of FF understeer and a reply bug that didn't show it - was pretty much undriveable. I don't know if it's car specific; the offender's weapon of choice seems to be the Magane in most cases, but he's got one up in the Z4 as we speak.
     
    KungFury likes this.
  7. Tidgney

    Tidgney Premium

    Messages:
    2,339
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I mentioned to Spurgy last night, is it possible this developer bug has the ability to change other aspects in the game? Like car stats/tunes etc.? So for example you could make a new default setup for the car and then that would be auto applied?

    Just a widely out there idea but while I don't think people are hacking that developer mode seems very interesting and it would appear more and more people are getting this weird developer area.
     
  8. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

    Messages:
    5,617
    Location:
    England
    Wow, so much nonsense to go through.
    For the sake of humoring you I will give it a go, but simply put, that's not how cars work. All applying the throttle whilst you brake does is push the car wide and make it harder to slow down. The only time would would ever use the throttle and brake at the same time is heel and toe which is intended to rev match as you downshift, but the game already does this for you. Plus it doesn't explain why the time you gain isn't due to using the throttle and the brake at the same time. @Tidgney said he might do a side by side comparison for me to really see where exactly you're gaining, but looking at it none of the most obvious gains in time are where you're using the throttle and brake, here's a break down for you.

    T2 - You're on full throttle over a second earlier and a good few car lengths over AUGH yet somehow use way less track on exit.
    T4 - Again full throttle way earlier and 8mph up at the apex, granted to take a slightly better line but nowhere near go enough to be an explanation.
    T7 - On the brakes much later that AUGH, by about a car length or two yet pull up in the same distance, how is that physically possible? And then again on exit you're on full throttle much much earlier.
    T10 - Here you're not only full throttle quite a bit earlier than AUGH but you're sliding the car at the same time, so somehow you found better traction despite having lost the rear of the car?

    What all these examples seem to have in common is that none of them have anything to do with you applying the throttle and the brake and all your gained time is through having insane levels of traction on exit, something you have in common with all the other weird laps I've been seeing. The only ways of getting increased traction out of corners that I know of is 1) a better line or 2) increased levels of grip, and in several of these cases you were either taking the same line or a worse one.
    Trying to shrug it off as if we're just sore losers who can't accept someone is faster than us isn't going to work either I'm afraid. I've been playing GT for years now, with lots of people driving faster than me and doing lap times I could never do yet I've never questioned a legitimate looking lap. Your lap, and the others I have pointed out are so far from looking remotely legitimate that I would bet everything I had that there is something seriously wrong with your game, whether intentional or not I have no idea, that fact you're being so defensive and acting as if there is nothing strange about being so fast with such a rubbish looking lap makes one possibility more likely than another.
    This is complete nonsense and I would hazard a guess that you know it is. CSA does not gain you seconds per lap, and makes absolutely no difference to an FF car, how could you possibly think it would? CSA deals with oversteer something FF cars are seriously lacking. It has it's uses on some cars and car at best gain you a few tenths, I've used it myself a few times and I don't magically become nearly a second a lap faster. If it's really worth all that time go ahead an prove it, should be easier for you to top the leaderboards if it does, but as the quick people who use it aren't miles ahead of everyone else, and the vast majority of the time the fastest lap isn't using it, I'm fairly certain that it doesn't make a huge difference.

    Plus as RA said he wasn't using it anyway, and this is the one car out of the examples I've posted where it be useful.
    Yes, I'm sure they haven't fixed an obvious bug in the physics in 14 years.
    I very much doubt that you could get anywhere near some of the times that the 4 guys I mentioned have been doing, biggest advantage I've seen is 3 seconds faster than everyone worldwide at Kyoto in the Gr.4 Scirocco.
    This sums up our findings nicely, we've had quite a few of the some of the best people in the sim racing world look into this and monitor it for over a month now, we've tried every in game option to try and explain these laps and unsurprisingly none of them worked.

    The only explanation I can think of and the mostly likely one IMO is that there is something seriously wrong with the games of the people doing these laps, and it's the same conclusion that a lot of some of the best sim drivers in world have come to as well, simply just looking at the lap it's glaringly obvious that something is wrong.
    It's not tyres, RSS is too slow to explain these laps.
    It's been done using more than just the Megane, but doesn't necessarily mean it's not car specific.
    I don't think you entirely grasp the work that has been put in looking at these laps, all of this has already been done. The first weird looking laps were being done pretty much since release at the beginning of November and we've analysed the speeds and where exactly they are gaining. Initially it was just one person and we have zero evidence for how any of these laps are being done so we didn't talk about it, but as more of these laps pop up being done by different people it's slowly becoming an issue.

    The laps we've looked at they have been capable of taking corners 5mph faster than everyone else and getting similar advantages on the exit of corners all while using less track than everyone else, as well as being able to brake far later than is physically possible, all signs of increased grip levels. Weirdly they also seem to have the ability to lose this advantage in speed (after having gained the time they need) within a couple 100ft, bringing their speed down to match what they should be doing had they been driving like everyone else. What is weird about this is that they do it without lifting off the throttle and the only way I can think of doing that is by decreasing their power on the go and somehow knowing exactly when they are at the speed they should be doing. Now I thought this could be done using the 1-6 power change thing but I pretty sure that's only an option when fuel use is on, so I have no idea why the lose their gained speed so quickly.

    TL;DR - The time gained is not due to using brake/throttle at the same times, it's not due to any in game driving assists, it's not due to a tyre switch, it's not as far as I can tell car specific, whatever it is it can gain the users 5mph+ apex and exit speeds as well as allowing them to brake much much later and lets them go up to at least 3 seconds per lap faster than everyone worldwide that I've seen.
    Oh yeh and thanks for reminding me, forgot to mention that was a possibility, although I think if it is the answer the menu would have to give you the ability to change more than the default setups because setup alone won't gain you the sort of time some of these laps are finding.
     
    baldgye, Espial, Revver00 and 12 others like this.
  9. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

    Messages:
    2,952
    Location:
    Australia
    I'm suspicious of a player in Australia who exclusively uses a Megane that is similarly a lot quicker than his driving lines suggests he should be.
     
  10. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

    Messages:
    5,617
    Location:
    England
    He is one of the 4 on the watch list. :lol: He's currently 0.5 up on everyone in Gr.3 at Interlagos using the GT by Citroen, but haven't seen his lap yet, might try and get hold of it.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

    Messages:
    2,952
    Location:
    Australia
    I have a saved full race replay or two of Bathurst if it is of interest.
     
  12. Mr P

    Mr P

    Messages:
    9,852
    Somehow I knew it would be Spurgy the authority on everything GT that would come in and bluntly answer me.. :rolleyes: pretty damn arrogant and I don't like your manners! do not speak to me again as I was certainly not speaking to you oh sage of the online gaming world! Won't post in discussions like this anymore for a troll like you to talk to people like idiots? Don't have a discussion thread guys, just have an ask Spurgy section :rolleyes: TOOL!!!
     
  13. flamingchariot

    flamingchariot

    Messages:
    413
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Something weird is going on pitting in and out or people cheating sitting near the pit entry lane as if they have crashed for a lap. Im in 3rd place for 3 laps after pitting and get overtaken on the penultimate lap which puts me in 4th place. I can see 4th for the rest of the race its not even a corner in front and I can't see anyone in my rear view (or on the track map when I glance.) Just as I'm going across the finish line 4th becomes 5th what the hell? Nurburgring GP
     
    ShiftingGears likes this.
  14. RA1784

    RA1784

    Messages:
    146
    Impressive theories. See ya on track

    Edit: Btw have fun studying my new lap on interlagos
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
    Ridox2JZGTE likes this.
  15. KungFury

    KungFury (Banned)

    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    United States
    I'll be waiting for proof of hacking, everything else is bollox until then.
     
    Ridox2JZGTE, NLxAROSA and RA1784 like this.
  16. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

    Messages:
    2,952
    Location:
    Australia
    I am seeing legitimate timing errors at Nurburgring GP where players are effectively invisible or showing the completely wrong position, but also with people attempting to gain a lap using the pitlane glitch. I believe they are separate issues.
     
  17. Shottah072

    Shottah072

    Messages:
    894
    This just a bug i encountered it to yesterday. When i looked at the replay the guy in second all of sudden had position 14 when he crossed the finish line at around lap 7 but in the end still finished 2nd or 1st. I thought i would finish 3rd but ended 4th because of this. It was legit though i can upload a replay of it happening if wanted.
     
  18. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

    Messages:
    1,160
    Location:
    Switzerland
    @Spurgy 777 didn't look into those laps myself (don't know if there's even some in Europe, not paying that much attention), but from what you describe, could it be something like boost being activated ? I mean, something that activates / deactivates itself on the fly and bumps the overall performance kinda fits the description. That would be easy to test (if not done already).
     
  19. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

    Messages:
    28,424
    Location:
    Canada
    Just to add to the discussion, there used to be an exploit in iRacing, maybe it's even still there I'm not sure, where pressing the throttle and brake at the same time would save your car during a potential spin. I only briefly watched the lap in question but you can clearly hear throttle and brake applied at the same time. I also noticed there is no tire squeal in the video in question either which I thought was odd.
     
  20. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

    Messages:
    5,617
    Location:
    England
    So you refuse to accept that anything is wrong and think that any concerns are "bollox" unless you have concrete evidence of exactly how they are doing the lap? Taking that logic to its extremes, what if someone was going 500mph down the straights or had so much grip they did lap times twice as fast as anyone else? Would it still be rubbish then to question it? I agree we can't say it's hacking because we have no idea how the laps are being done, but to say any concerns or questions are rubbish is nonsense.
    Just got to the Gr.3 leaderboards now to see for yourself, top time again looks like a poor lap yet is matching the world records from before the 911 was nerfed, and is 0.6 up on next best time. Boost is an option in theory yes, the problem is it's obviously not activated in Sports Mode races, let alone in the Sport Mode TTs, so you would have to find a way of switching it on, or a bug that switches it on for you. You would also need another car on track for it to work because it's designed to speed you up if you are behind the leader so should in theory do nothing when you're alone on track. Now it is true that for some reason if boost is on in a custom lobby then it works in practice too, and the speed boosts it gives are a bit inconsistent, so it's a vague possibility.
    You might of missed it in my wall of text, but the time is almost solely gained by going full throttle a lot earlier than usual with a seemingly unusual level of traction, so we can safely rule out the brake/throttle being used at the same time as a cause of the gain.
     
    Johnnypenso likes this.
  21. KungFury

    KungFury (Banned)

    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    United States
    Yes.
     
  22. Shottah072

    Shottah072

    Messages:
    894
    I am with @Spurgy 777 on this one. Somethings up, wether it is hacks or a game bug or some kind of abuse of physics engine or wether it is intentional or not, those laps look like they are nowhere near clean enough to be in top10, let alone top them by near a second. I dont want to call anyone a cheater without proof though, could just be their game got messed up by something or they figured out a way to beat the games physics. But it is definetly a weird situation that is going on.
     
    Stotty, ASH32, LMSCorvetteGT2 and 5 others like this.
  23. EDK

    EDK Moderator

    Messages:
    14,296
    Location:
    United States
    No, not at this point. We can't export replays, so we can't get at the data.

    Quoting both of you guys, only to say that it looks pretty clear to me that this is some sort of tire bug/glitch that these guys have figured out how to take advantage of. That they are using less track while maintaining higher apex and exit speed makes that quite obvious to me.
     
  24. icenl

    icenl

    Messages:
    200
    The lap from RA1784 looks pretty good to me. Nice smooth throttle and brake inputs, also if you look at his milage he has run the car for over 4200 miles, while trl_augh only drove the car for 523 miles. Also if you compare turn 4 where trl_augh is accelerating on the slippery light green part of the track and curb while RA1784 takes it wider but gets a much better exit speed due to the use of the asphalt next to the curb.

    Also how accurate are the replays? I think in the older Gran Turismo's it would save your inputs and replay those in realtime during the replays?
     
  25. Rick23 GT

    Rick23 GT

    Messages:
    21
    Im on spurgy's side too, theres something wrong :confused:
     
  26. nissman

    nissman

    Messages:
    2,431
    Location:
    Slovenia
    Not convinced one bit. I can usually get a top 10 time at Nur GP so I know what it takes to go fast around here but in my opinion there is now way you can get those times with the lines you are using. You are all over the place just not at the places you should be.

    Btw I never see you in races are you only settings lap times?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  27. Rick23 GT

    Rick23 GT

    Messages:
    21
    Ive never seen him doing a fast lap time on FIA races too...???
     
  28. KungFury

    KungFury (Banned)

    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    United States
    What would be his purpose for being here?
     
  29. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

    Messages:
    2,158
    Location:
    Canada
    That brings up an interesting question...

    For here in North America, has anyone seen "Paid Killers" name on any of the FIA leaderboards for either the Nation's or Manufacturer's Cup???

    Cheers
     
  30. rgkma

    rgkma

    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    England

    Talking about Suzuka the other week. I was in a race, there was one driver who was at least 15 seconds ahead. I didnt think much about it, until after the pitstops. I started closing in on the leaders, and as wet through Spoon Curve saw the leader in the gravel, as i passed the lobby crashed, and some error code came up. Thought it was a PSN glitch again, but lobby closed and was able to carry on to race online few seconds later. And reading on here, im starting to think that somehow this "racer" hacked, and found away to shut the daily lobby because was about to be beaten.

    :censored: