GT Sport ready for future console generations and output resolutions

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Roxanne, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

    Messages:
    38,811
    Location:
    United States
    Has there ever been an explanation as to why the last gen models were suddenly "incompatible" and of no use any more? I would think with PD being so close to Sony, Kaz would know just what the next generation console demands/or is capable of that would allow him to better plan out how to retain all these models they put so much time into.
     
  2. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

    Messages:
    10,584
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    But.... They said the same thing when developing GT5.....
     
    NLxAROSA, Imari and JulesDennis like this.
  3. skazz

    skazz

    Messages:
    2,431
    we know they were touting GT6 3D models as being higher quality than the actual in game assets. Then on top of the 3D model you'd need shaders, sounds, physics and LOD variants (although GT6 used that adaptive tech to minimize the number of LODs needing to be modeled).

    However you look at it, some or most of that work should be able to be reused. I could see them re-recording the sounds (yeah, that was a cheap shot) and redoing the physics but I cannot think of a single reason to throw away the 3D model and start again. Unless they made some dramatically stupid choices for the PS3 era models which made them unable to be converted or associated with the new shaders and materials (can't believe that).

    So I end up thinking of cynical answers. Like maybe PD wanted a limited car line up to start with simply to make balance of performance easier, and they really do have 400+ 3D models waiting to be polished up and released during the next 3 years...... hey, that sounds more plausible than them throwing away all that work on the PS3 era 3D models!


    P.S. To give you an idea of what can be done, SMS converted some track models from pCARS 1 (manual modeling) to pCARS 2 (laser scan point cloud). They literally overlaid the old and new models, took the track Surface from the point cloud and the surroundings from the old model, corrected the gaps. Updating existing 3D assets is absolutely possible even to that extent and I can't think of a single reason to start from scratch given the quality and acccuracy of PD's GT5/6 models
     
    Imari, Earth, -kj- and 1 other person like this.
  4. eSZee

    eSZee

    Messages:
    11,214
    Location:
    United States
    If you already have a PS4, no, skip it. If you're going to buy a PS4 anyway, you have a 4k TV, and don't mind paying the premium, go for it. Support, which is in no way regulated and has been disappointing at best, should get better with XboxX coming out.
     
    Gregfranklin likes this.
  5. synon

    synon

    Messages:
    237
    Perhaps they wanted to avoid having two+ tiers of quality for the cars again given the complaints about having standard cars in previous games.

    Well he wasn't wrong, the GT6 premiums do stand comparison with this generation. I don't remember him saying that they were going to re-use the assets, but even if so, plans can change.
     
  6. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

    Messages:
    12,751
    Location:
    United States
    So then why not update them all to the same level instead of they themselves scraping them all and creating an additional level quality? :idea:

    If that's what is even happening here.

    Then essentially, what you're saying is that they're wasting time? Sounds about right. What is future proofing if it is not to reuse the assets in the future when a new iteration is being worked on? The fact that he uses this statement everytime a new game comes around alludes to the fact that he would be reusing them.
     
    Sick Lenny, Northstar, Imari and 2 others like this.
  7. hardvibes

    hardvibes

    Messages:
    3,927
    Location:
    Italy
    I still haven't seen engines under the bonnets (just a 3d model used in the GT5 Redbull trailer, and in one of the many GT5 screensavers) so I don't believe this "super-premium" thing.
     
  8. TokoTurismo

    TokoTurismo

    Messages:
    10,074
    Location:
    Canada
    Kaz is so full of it. I honestly don't know why anyone would believe or care what he's saying after GT5/6. I moved on from this franchise and do not regret it one bit. Other devs like T10 get some much flack despite showing their effort to releasing quality games on a reasonable time frame, whereas PD....I don't even know at this point. GTS is having an identity crisis!

    Kaz can keep on singing the same :censored: all he wants, because I can't bothered what comes out of this man's mouth anymore... PD had forgotten what their goal as a 'game developer' was, due to their obsession of making their 'racing games' pretty nowadays, when really it should be the 'driving' that's important in a game centered around online racing. Wasn't given the slogan "the real driving simulator" for a reason, which still seems to keep judging the covers revealed.

    I especially don't care if the cars are "super premiums" if PD haven't even shown a piece of the engines, let alone modeled the trunks.
     
    HuskyGT likes this.
  9. isamu

    isamu

    Messages:
    825
    Are you the Real Roxanne?
     
  10. MisterOne77

    MisterOne77

    Messages:
    746
    ok
     
  11. Michelin Man

    Michelin Man

    Messages:
    2,380
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I'm of the same view, and have been for some time. Whilst I am still excited for GTS, very much obtaining a positive attitude to it all, despite the big direction change and so and so fourth, I've been impressed by what I've seen and heard so far. However with that said, I'm not going to hold my breath, and will stay relatively grounded, and will likewise only believe it until I see it for myself.

    But with that said, I'm also a bit confused as to why all the PS3 Spec premiums have seemingly been canned and things built from scratch instead. After all, they were deemed to be "future proof" to begin with, and they were hardly lacking detail then (and now), as the look pretty fantastic and detailed as they are. So whilst I'm by no means a graphics or detailing expert by any stretch of the imagination, I'd have thought that'd it'd be surely easier to take the current assets, and use them as a base for the current "super-premiums" by touching them up. I would've have thought that would be easier than starting from scratch anyway, but that's what it looks like to a relatively naive outsider like myself, but what do I know?

    Although at the end of day, should I be philosophical about it all? as this is Kaz we're talking about, and as dedicated as we all are, we surely know not to hold our breath on such things :lol::sly:.

    I'll just see how it pans out, as for now we're realistically none the wiser until it becomes reality. Though I will admit, with the exception of the delays (granted they're big exceptions), things have been quite promising on the outset, suggesting that maybe, just maybe, Kaz maybe heeding to our words of advice.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    Gregfranklin and Imari like this.
  12. CSLACR

    CSLACR

    Messages:
    10,457
    Location:
    United States
    It certainly begs the question why they don't just scoot over to PC, since by their own words Playstations just aren't good enough.

    You might think that would piss Sony off too, but whatever works(or doesn't) , I guess...?
     
    Imari likes this.
  13. zzz_pt

    zzz_pt

    Messages:
    7,956
    Location:
    Germany
    Piss off Sony? GT is a Sony's IP.

    Why do you think Sony would get more money on PC than PS, even if you ignore the fact that millions of consoles have been sold just due to GT (and that money also goes to Sony)?
     
  14. CSLACR

    CSLACR

    Messages:
    10,457
    Location:
    United States
    I know millions of PS3's were, not so sure about PS4's.

    I certainly wouldn't expect it to be a continuing trend with PD's continued struggle.
    How many people will buy a console for a game that won't release until 4 or 5 years into a consoles lifespan?
    Aside from that, I guess I figure constantly stating PS's aren't good enough isn't very good publicity.

    "Buy a Playstation for GT, it's not good enough, but we'll do what we can in 4 years, which is very little, because the Playstation sucks". - Hell of a headline.

    Meanwhile, T10 says "look at our 4 games, the Xbone works great". "Oh, and we made a new console and a 5th game, because we don't have those problems"

    My point is, as of right now, buying a PS4 for GT was a mistake, for anyone that wants to be able to play the game they bought the console for, anyway.

    Xboxers will have a 5th before Playstationeers get a first.
    If limited by hardware is true (hint: it isn't) the Xbox is far and above the PS4. (It also isn't)

    Now the XoneX.... :)
     
    Imari likes this.
  15. Atwork

    Atwork

    Messages:
    131
    It is different landscape now. I would expect a decent amount of updates. Poly would be leaving to much money on the table.
     
  16. Propane Pete

    Propane Pete

    Messages:
    13
    That's true. The car list in GT5 and GT6 was pretty extensive, but many of them weren't cars you would buy and use. It looks like all the cars in GT Sport have fully detailed interiors, which is good. However, I'd still like to see some ordinary road cars and a few classics thrown in (not as far back though as the Austin A40 in my profile pikky!!!). Perhaps PD will get onto that once Sport is released and beds in.
     
  17. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

    Messages:
    28,463
    Location:
    Canada
    So money wasn't left on the table when they had 17 million customers for the full game in the PS3 era but money is left on the table now because 2017?
     
    dice1998, Sick Lenny and Imari like this.
  18. trustjab

    trustjab

    Messages:
    3,264
    Location:
    United States
    Does it really matter if they're future proof or not? I see a lot more of the same complaints here from other thread that we don't have 500, a 1000 cars because they redid everything. Did they really redo everything or is that another vague comment? If they kept the assets from previous titles, this 'redoing' of everything shouldn't even be a big deal. I'm no programmer though, so I may be wrong but I was under the impression that they could maybe scale up the models? Looking at the interiors especially, you can tell that these cars in GTS are definitely a step up from GT6, for sure. But is say, the texture of recreating interior materials brand new? Is the paint appearance brand new? Is the entire model brand new? Or are they using what they have on file and applying new tech or better visuals simply because of the upgraded hardware they can work with and calling it brand new? It'd be nice to actually know if they take photos and scans all over again on the same vehicle(s) or if they have that on file and can incorporate more 'data' from it? Something like the polygon count etc.
     
  19. Mr Tree

    Mr Tree

    Messages:
    952
    And this is exacty why I don't understand why people have interviews with the man. This is exactly why I don't understand why a'yone would let Kaz speak at any event whatsoever. This is why I don't understand why PD let's him speak.

    He's either delusional or willfully misleading people. I hate those people I hate it when people who are known to be untrustworthy get platforms.
     
    Imari likes this.
  20. Slurm

    Slurm

    Messages:
    1,171
    I think what happens is that with the advent of new technology, what they thought was future-proof, actually was not.

    Technology moves forward so fast, and often methods are revolutionised by new technologies. I'm not a designer or engineer of any kind either, but I would guess the techniques they previously used for data collection / modelling became sub-optimal, and then there's a big argument to start over.

    3D scanner technology, for example, will be on a very steep development curve right now. Probably in the not too distant future, they'll be able to capture info about materials and colours simultaneously, and automatically generate 3d models for teams with all the textures, colours and even material properties generated by the actual scanner.

    Hence the question - is it worth delaying today's game in an effort to create future-proof assets for tomorrow's game, using today's methods and tech?

    Or should you tell that guy to actually never-mind about hand-embossing the part numbers onto the tyre walls, and just get to work on something that can actually be rendered by the current hardware?
     
    Sick Lenny and Imari like this.
  21. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

    Messages:
    28,463
    Location:
    Canada
    PD doesn't "let" Kaz speak, for all intents and purposes Kaz is PD. He's made Sony trainloads of money and brought great prestige to their brand in this little corner of the gaming world. He'll be speaking for PD until he dies if he can keep that up.

    Matter in what way and to whom? Does it matter like a flood or a hurricane? No. Does it matter to gamers who like this game? To some yes, to others no. Some will buy anything that PD churns out regardless and the extra "prestige" attached to cars being future proofed and every screwhead being round, even close up, makes them "proud" to own a GT game. To others, who are more focused on gameplay and content, spending extra resources on content that cannot be utilized until the next generation seems a foolish waste of time and effort that could have been turned into more cars, tracks and other content for the game they are about to play or a much earlier release date.
     
    Sick Lenny, regnar and Imari like this.
  22. synon

    synon

    Messages:
    237
    The six months they spend modeling the cars seems to be commensurate with other developers' times, so if they are wasting time, it doesn't appear to be appreciable.

    I disagree. It doesn't necessarily mean that, in the same way that "it would be no problem to run it at 8K" doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to re-use the assets for 8K - it's just highlighting the quality of their models.
     
  23. danh25

    danh25

    Messages:
    451
    I had promised not to write more in this forum, but I write this last message to clarify the 8k which he would have said kaz :)
    He did not say the game could run at 8k on ps5 but said they are doing car models with a modeling is very high detail that can re-use for the next generation of consoles, 8k case only refers to New type of work they are doing on the car and that's enough, this I do not say it i, but it's clearly said by Antonio Fucito of multiplayer.it in a recent video where he speaks of this extract from his interview Kaz :)

    Greetings!
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    azeeza likes this.
  24. Mr Tree

    Mr Tree

    Messages:
    952
    Ok that's indeed a worded wrong. Let me ask this how can 'one' look in the mirror the next morning knowing they work for a person that doesn't represent your hard work in any way. On the contrary he is misleading the customers of said persons work into expecting things that won't happen or are exagerations of your work. This would lead me as an employee to believe he doesn't value my work.

    So yeah it's easy to say he is PD but then why does PD still exist? Why do they still have people working for such a man?


    I realise you where just correcting my statement. I just really have issues with dishonnesty.

    Edit: why is the press still covering thi'gs like this. And if they are why isn't Kaz pressed on statements like this? Why isn't he forced to explain why it's futureproof this time since.it wasn't last time? Why isn't he asked what the diffrence is compared to last time?

    Again I'm noy sayong you like this attitude I'm just stating my lack of understanding why people give a platform to someone you know is going to be dishonnest.
     
  25. TS050

    TS050 Premium

    Messages:
    2,781
    This is getting ridiculous. Kaz needs to learn how to focus on the technology he has now. Yes, the car models look great, but when the competition also have great car models, is it really that big of a deal?

    Besides, knowing him, he'll throw away 3/4 of the car list next gen as they "weren't of a high enough quality".
     
  26. Mr Tree

    Mr Tree

    Messages:
    952
    It's true they don't necessarily need to reuse it. But in all honesty when you have to downscale the new models for ps4 and you don't reuse these models all you are essentially saying is: 'look at how much time we lost making these models more beautifull then you'll ever get to see on you ps4(pro). So yeah if not reusing them iy's was just all a waste of time
     
  27. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

    Messages:
    28,463
    Location:
    Canada
    Your mental gymnastics must be quite tiring. Future proof does not equal future proof I guess.
    I guess a few years from now this statement:
    ...will mean they were building for PSPro and not PS5 and we just misinterpreted it:lol:
     
    ImaRobot and Mr Tree like this.
  28. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

    Messages:
    12,751
    Location:
    United States
    If they're spending the extra effort to make these cars future proof, just to not use them, than yeah it'll matter to some. Does it really matter to you that it matters to some people?


    Not what we're talking about here. You said that Gt6 still stands in comparison to now, so if they future proofed these models, and then scraped them all, just to start future proofing again, than the time was completely wasted and for what? You still think they stand well, and so do I, so if they scrapped them to restart all together, than it seems like a waste of time. I really highly doubt that they went around and completely scrapped all data.

    Future proofing literally means that. They do this so they can be reused in the future, I don't understand why you're disagreeing. Super Premium highlights the quality of the models, Future Proofing is a method to ensure that your models will last for a long time for whats to come, using methods that will usually be able to stand the test of time, or that will be using a higher level of quality that you probably wont be able to utilize until later(this seems to be Kaz' route, yet he restarts all the time.) They are similar, but not one in the same. If the Future proofing gets scrapped with each new game, there is no need to take the extra steps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    Sick Lenny likes this.
  29. TVR27

    TVR27 Premium

    Messages:
    4,019
    Location:
    Latvia
    Yes I want racing games to be about the driving this is why I started with Toca Race Driver and 2 and 3 then codemasters went down the Need for Speed Road then I changed to Gran Turismo 5 and then 6 I think Forza will be my next game.
    (I did have Gran Turismo 4 byt didn't play it as much as Toca.)
     
    TokoTurismo likes this.
  30. Gregfranklin

    Gregfranklin

    Messages:
    84
    Well put. I truly do believe they started from scratch.. I would not be surprised if they truly built the game up from basically a clean slate, however I'm with the folks who just want a good FFB driving game, a variety of cars from different eras, and I can do without perfect graphics of steering wheel leather stitching.
     
    Michelin Man likes this.