GT Sport ready for future console generations and output resolutions

[black300zx]

I love GT since the 1st one come out. I appreciate the high level of graphical fidelity in the games (car models in other games always seem to look like made from plastic to me) but this is getting ridiculous.

I bet half of the details they model you will barely see, so why bother? Just to brag and put up pictures of details we can't see for ourselves? We get limited view of the interior and can't zoom in and look around, how are we supposed to marvel at how even the number of stitches in the interior is supposed to match the real thing?

And yes this future proofing is BS and a waste of resources and time. HDR is mastered to 10k nits (or whatever it was) yet there's no panel that supports that even being made and probably won't for a long time. Again is more about bragging rights then actual practical benefits to us users of the game.

But here I am with my copy already preordered, checking the forums everyday for news and wanting to start playing like tomorrow! Maybe that's the thing, there's enough of us hooked bat they get away with this BS.

 

[zzz_pt]

I know millions of PS3's were, not so sure about PS4's.

Millions of PS, PS2, PS3 and probably more PS4s will be sold. At the time GTS is launching, they probably will make some bundles with the PS4 pro or even with the slim version. I had my PS1 and PS2 to play GT games. Bought the PS3 only to play GT (bought it the day GT5 prologue came out). And bought the PS4 last year. I waited for GTS but, for the first time, decided to buy the PS4 to play other games while I waited for it. And I don't think it was a mistake. Uncharted, Horizon, Last of Us are well worth the money. Bought AC and Dark Souls too.

I certainly wouldn't expect it to be a continuing trend with PD's continued struggle.

What struggle are you referring to? More games don't mean better sales numbers.

The PS3 era was the worst for PD with sales:
GT5: almost12 million copies
GT6: almost 6 million copies

On the XboxOne, T10 sold:
Forza 2: ~4 million
Forza 3: ~5.5 million
Forza 4: ~ 5 million
Horizon: ~2 million*
Horizon 2: ~1.4 million*

PD sold almost the same number of copies as T10 with 5 titles ( I don't know if any of those numbers count digital copies).

Now, in the current generation, of course T10 has the lead.
Forza 5: ~2.3 million
Forza 6: ~2 million
Horizon 3: ~ 2.4 million*
Forza 7 coming in October.

* Horizon series doesn't have the same target audience as Gran Turismo. Both have cars, that's pretty much the only thing in common. FM is the direct competitor.

Never in 20 years did the first GT game on a console generation sold less than 10 million copies. In the past they were launched pretty much after or with the release of the console itself. GTS is coming out 4 years later. But the whole console iteration market is changing. If there's a change in the approach from PD (providing GTS as a service continuously instead of launching title after title), they might not be so late to the fight as it seems. I guess only time will tell. I sure believe they can sell 5 million copies in the next 3 years if they decide for that service-like approach. The only thing I find it can bring down the sales is the lack of a proper career/offline mode - I'm now waiting for the custom races and arcade multiplayer feature.

How many people will buy a console for a game that won't release until 4 or 5 years into a consoles lifespan?

I don't know. Probably not a lot. Most people though, don't buy a console for GT only (even here on GTP who are not "the casuals", I doubt most members bought consoles just to play GT).

Aside from that, I guess I figure constantly stating PS's aren't good enough isn't very good publicity.

"Buy a Playstation for GT, it's not good enough, but we'll do what we can in 4 years, which is very little, because the Playstation sucks". - Hell of a headline.

Meanwhile, T10 says "look at our 4 games, the Xbone works great". "Oh, and we made a new console and a 5th game, because we don't have those problems"

Who said that about PS4? I guess that's your interpretation about PD's thoughts on the PS4 because they didn't release a title sooner?

My point is, as of right now, buying a PS4 for GT was a mistake, for anyone that wants to be able to play the game they bought the console for, anyway.

Xboxers will have a 5th before Playstationeers get a first.
If limited by hardware is true (hint: it isn't) the Xbox is far and above the PS4. (It also isn't)

Now the XoneX....

As I said before, in my case I don't think it was a mistake. Anyone who buys a PS4 has plenty of exclusive titles to enjoy. Driveclub, with all its issues, was, IMO, a nice option. Probably Sony decided to launch it because they knew GT would take its time.

____

The next Playstation is probably being developed atm and Kaz is on the SCEE board so he knows what's happening and what's the strategy for the future of the console.

I didn't like the 4 year gap since GT6, of course. But I don't think the PS4 is a bad machine (I don't even see the connection really). I'm OK with the wait if GTS turns out a great game. If I wanted I could have bought an Xbox to play Forza (that would be the only game I'd play tbh) but I'm not that eager to play every year or every 2 years a new game. The only thing that bothers me in the 4 year gap is the lack of content GTS will have compared to GT5/6 (in the first place) and to Forza (cars) and PC2 (tracks). On the other hand, all the things I've seen are looking pretty nice.


TL;DR I don't see any reason why PD would move to PC. Their sales are not bad at all for the market. They're only "bad" when compared to sales of previous PD titles.

 

[synon]

Your mental gymnastics must be quite tiring. Future proof does not equal future proof I guess.
I guess a few years from now this statement:
...will mean they were building for PSPro and not PS5 and we just misinterpreted it

Lol, no mental gymnastics required.
Are PD planning to re-use the models for PS5? Yes. Are PD planning to re-use the models for 8K? Not necessarily, unless you think the PS5 is definitely going to be an 8K console.

Not what we're talking about here.

We're talking about future proofing. If something doesn't require much extra work now and may save a lot in the future then it's a different proposition to one that requires a lot of work now.

 

[ImaRobot]

We're talking about future proofing. If something doesn't require much extra work now and may save a lot in the future then it's a different proposition to one that requires a lot of work now.

Yes, so a time it takes to model a car is not part of this discussion. We know it takes 6 months to model a car, but to future proof he is using methods that are not going to be even shown on current hardware, just to make them stand the test of time. However, he basically just chucked that out the window, so it is a waste of time if he is going down the route time and time again, future proofing, only to get rid of them to start from scratch, to future proof again. Just make them 100% for this game from the get go rather than trying to predict future technologies, and how fast they get to us, and that must apparently be fast since they so soon scrapped the GT6 cars to start future proofing the future proofed cars.

He's said it in the past that the work on PS3 was actually more suited for that of next generation consoles. If they build with the future in mind, would that take more time, or less? I would imagine more time as you'd have to anticipate and study upward trends to model your cars around I would imagine.

Are PD planning to re-use the models for PS5? Yes. Are PD planning to re-use the models for 8K? Not necessarily, unless you think the PS5 is definitely going to be an 8K console.

That's not what you originally said

I disagree. It doesn't necessarily mean that

 

[Atwork]

So money wasn't left on the table when they had 17 million customers for the full game in the PS3 era but money is left on the table now because 2017?

All kinds of money was left of the table poly and Kaz did not like paid dlc. I did not either at the time I refused to do it. Times change and so have I. Poly has always left money on the table. These days, withlower sales for many reasons, dlc is too hard to pass up. If gt could pump out content quicker they would make more money too but dlc gives them an option to make money as they keep developing. Even if 500 cars was only a dream they will have to pump out a decent amount of content to try and get close.

 

[trustjab]

PD doesn't "let" Kaz speak, for all intents and purposes Kaz is PD. He's made Sony trainloads of money and brought great prestige to their brand in this little corner of the gaming world. He'll be speaking for PD until he dies if he can keep that up.

Matter in what way and to whom? Does it matter like a flood or a hurricane? No. Does it matter to gamers who like this game? To some yes, to others no. Some will buy anything that PD churns out regardless and the extra "prestige" attached to cars being future proofed and every screwhead being round, even close up, makes them "proud" to own a GT game. To others, who are more focused on gameplay and content, spending extra resources on content that cannot be utilized until the next generation seems a foolish waste of time and effort that could have been turned into more cars, tracks and other content for the game they are about to play or a much earlier release date.

I think you misunderstood. When I say does it matter if they are future proof, that's me saying regardless if they are or not, if they redo the cars (like for this game vs GT6) they're always going to be up to date. That's Kaz and PD's thing, from every title of GT. The cars always look like they are at or ahead of the competition.

If anyone here has an idea of what they are doing to "future proof" cars, please explain. If you do or we have logically guessing, what is it now that was different from GT6 and why is it an issue for them? Seems like some people are making my comment out to be a defense of their methods. That's not the case. I'm wondering if the processes now are that much different/better than the last title.

 

[Animera]

Kaz sounds like a stuck record.

 

[Maddens Raiders]

Kaz is such a G. How can anyone hate this man's spirit? Can't wait to get on Sport.

 

[CSLACR]

Millions of PS, PS2, PS3 and probably more PS4s will be sold. At the time GTS is launching, they probably will make some bundles with the PS4 pro or even with the slim version. I had my PS1 and PS2 to play GT games. Bought the PS3 only to play GT (bought it the day GT5 prologue came out). And bought the PS4 last year. I waited for GTS but, for the first time, decided to buy the PS4 to play other games while I waited for it. And I don't think it was a mistake. Uncharted, Horizon, Last of Us are well worth the money. Bought AC and Dark Souls too.



What struggle are you referring to? More games don't mean better sales numbers.

The PS3 era was the worst for PD with sales:
GT5: almost12 million copies
GT6: almost 6 million copies

On the XboxOne, T10 sold:
Forza 2: ~4 million
Forza 3: ~5.5 million
Forza 4: ~ 5 million
Horizon: ~2 million*
Horizon 2: ~1.4 million*

PD sold almost the same number of copies as T10 with 5 titles ( I don't know if any of those numbers count digital copies).

Now, in the current generation, of course T10 has the lead.
Forza 5: ~2.3 million
Forza 6: ~2 million
Horizon 3: ~ 2.4 million*
Forza 7 coming in October.

* Horizon series doesn't have the same target audience as Gran Turismo. Both have cars, that's pretty much the only thing in common. FM is the direct competitor.

Never in 20 years did the first GT game on a console generation sold less than 10 million copies. In the past they were launched pretty much after or with the release of the console itself. GTS is coming out 4 years later. But the whole console iteration market is changing. If there's a change in the approach from PD (providing GTS as a service continuously instead of launching title after title), they might not be so late to the fight as it seems. I guess only time will tell. I sure believe they can sell 5 million copies in the next 3 years if they decide for that service-like approach. The only thing I find it can bring down the sales is the lack of a proper career/offline mode - I'm now waiting for the custom races and arcade multiplayer feature.




I don't know. Probably not a lot. Most people though, don't buy a console for GT only (even here on GTP who are not "the casuals", I doubt most members bought consoles just to play GT).



Who said that about PS4? I guess that's your interpretation about PD's thoughts on the PS4 because they didn't release a title sooner?



As I said before, in my case I don't think it was a mistake. Anyone who buys a PS4 has plenty of exclusive titles to enjoy. Driveclub, with all its issues, was, IMO, a nice option. Probably Sony decided to launch it because they knew GT would take its time.

____

The next Playstation is probably being developed atm and Kaz is on the SCEE board so he knows what's happening and what's the strategy for the future of the console.

I didn't like the 4 year gap since GT6, of course. But I don't think the PS4 is a bad machine (I don't even see the connection really). I'm OK with the wait if GTS turns out a great game. If I wanted I could have bought an Xbox to play Forza (that would be the only game I'd play tbh) but I'm not that eager to play every year or every 2 years a new game. The only thing that bothers me in the 4 year gap is the lack of content GTS will have compared to GT5/6 (in the first place) and to Forza (cars) and PC2 (tracks). On the other hand, all the things I've seen are looking pretty nice.


TL;DR I don't see any reason why PD would move to PC. Their sales are not bad at all for the market. They're only "bad" when compared to sales of previous PD titles.

I can't break down a post like that on my phone, but here's some highlights.
You started off claiming GT is a console pusher, and ended saying people didn't buy consoles to wait 4 years for GT. While not directly contradictory, it either is, or a lot of people must be upset.
You counted FH2 as an xbox360 title (well you said xboxone but I digress) it was released for both.(which brings the age old question why GT6 wasn't multi-console)
You compared sales betweeb two games where we know the sales are in favor already. Quite frankly, quoting sales to indicate quality....well enjoy your new Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift albums.
Sales have never meant quality, unless you're saying that GM made the highest quality, best vehicles on the road for decades.

I said that about the PS's, based on Kaz's continued statements that the Playstation is the reason they can't make games quickly or properly. If you need me to explain how missing features promised on the box is low quality, I guess Im talking to a wall.

The statement about the PS4, well I clearly said (it isn't) but you seemed to have skipped that entirely. Convenient.

You might be right, terrible pop music will top the charts, and maybe terrible racing games will too, time will tell.
Sales will never equal quality, no matter how loud Bieber fans scream, or GT fans.

As for the age old "future proof" rhetoric, well, maybe people don't care. Maybe it doesn't matter how many false claims are made by Kaz.
Does believing someone that's "wrong"(I would call it something worse) make them right? Nope.

 

[zzz_pt]

I can't break down a post like that on my phone, but here's some highlights.
You started off claiming GT is a console pusher,

I said:

Why do you think Sony would get more money on PC than PS, even if you ignore the fact that millions of consoles have been sold just due to GT (and that money also goes to Sony)?

Didn't say millions of PS4s.

and ended saying people didn't buy consoles to wait 4 years for GT. While not directly contradictory, it either is, or a lot of people must be upset.

Citation needed. What I said was:
I don't know. Probably not a lot. Most people though, don't buy a console for GT only (even here on GTP who are not "the casuals", I doubt most members bought consoles just to play GT).

So I'm not contradicting myself. Also, I talked about my opinion regarding the 4 year gap. The first sentence doesn't contradict the second. If there's no GT game on the PS4, it's obvious the game is not selling consoles as it normally does.

You counted FH2 as an xbox360 title (well you said xboxone but I digress) it was released for both.(which brings the age old question why GT6 wasn't multi-console)

Sure. I'd like to have played GT6 on the PS4 too. And? Would PD be in less of a "struggle" if they had done that? I'm still waiting for you to explain the struggle part and back that up with some good argument and evidence. Not whatever Kaz says on a random day.

You compared sales betweeb two games where we know the sales are in favor already. Quite frankly, quoting sales to indicate quality....well enjoy your new Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift albums.
Sales have never meant quality, unless you're saying that GM made the highest quality, best vehicles on the road for decades.

Never said quantity = quality so, nothing to say here. I mentioned sales (even if they're not accurate to the unity) to make the point that PD is only struggling if you compare it against itself. In the broader context of gaming and consoles, even with GT6 being a "failure" for PD standards, it sold more than any Forza title to date.

I'm curious though to know why do you think GT would improve its quality if it was launched on the PC. If you think graphics and fps make a game, sure, I might see your point. I'll be waiting.

On the Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift comment, that's pretty unfortunate. The Justin Biebers and Taylor Swifts of games are, IMO, the F2P games, not racing games.

Again, I never said sales = quality.

I said that about the PS's, based on Kaz's continued statements that the Playstation is the reason they can't make games quickly or properly.

So you're basically standing on what Kaz says. Good luck with that.

I'd like to see where you got that from. Kaz (and a lot of other devs) said the PS3 structure was hard to work with. I don't remember him saying PD couldn't work faster or properly because of PS4.

If you need me to explain how missing features promised on the box is low quality, I guess Im talking to a wall.

Which features were on the box and didn't end up in the game?

The statement about the PS4, well I clearly said (it isn't) but you seemed to have skipped that entirely. Convenient.

This part?
If limited by hardware is true (hint: it isn't) the Xbox is far and above the PS4. (It also isn't).

I can address that if you want. If you think hardware is not the problem for PD's struggles, why do you think it would be better for them to move to PC? Now that's contradictory.

You might be right, terrible pop music will top the charts, and maybe terrible racing games will too, time will tell.
Sales will never equal quality, no matter how loud Bieber fans scream, or GT fans.

Again, never said sales = quality. You seem to think that more games = more quality though.

As for the age old "future proof" rhetoric, well, maybe people don't care. Maybe it doesn't matter how many false claims are made by Kaz.
Does believing someone that's "wrong"(I would call it something worse) make them right? Nope.

How do you reconcile that with what you just said a few sentences above:
I said that about the PS's, based on Kaz's continued statements

Again, good luck getting out from that.

I know I won't be taking Kaz as seriously as you do.

 

[lancia delta hf]

Kaz is such a G. How can anyone hate this man's spirit? Can't wait to get on Sport.

You don't have to hate him to call him out on his repeated false or vague promises that don't materialize.

 

[Tornado]

Sony has spent the past half decade divesting themselves from any and all development on the PC in favor of doubing down on the Playstation brand. They've sold off non-Playstation game development studios that were operating from the beginning of SCE, creative software IPs they stewarded for over a decade, and their entire Vaio PC line. They've also similarly resisted anything similar to what Microsoft has been doing in regards to trying to homogenize the PC and console gaming experience; and even have still touted the old "exclusive to Playstation" byline for games that released at the same time on the PC. Playstation Now is the sole exception, and that is probably borne out of an attempt to try and make some of the money they dumped into Gaikai back.


For all intents and purposes, Sony seems extremely happy to play in their own sandbox exclusively. And there's certainly no reason to frame it like Kaz, a Vice President of SCE and head of a Sony first party development studio, could somehow presumably go rogue with a Sony-owned IP and "piss Sony off" in the process by releasing a PC version against their wishes.

 

[Slurm]

You don't have to hate him to call him out on his repeated false or vague promises that don't materialize.

Yeah, totally agree. What Kaz has achieved is amazing. I would've loved to have been involved in the original GT1 project.

But yeah these kinds of statements make me do a big sigh. Hearing that he's decided to shelf all GT6 assets, and knowing PD's previous track record for delays and omissions, cuts in content? Big sigh.

 

[synon]

Yes, so a time it takes to model a car is not part of this discussion.

The difference between the time taken to produce a future proofed model and one that's not is pertinent though if you're trying to justify that future proofing is a waste of time.

We know it takes 6 months to model a car, but to future proof he is using methods that are not going to be even shown on current hardware, just to make them stand the test of time. However, he basically just chucked that out the window, so it is a waste of time if he is going down the route time and time again, future proofing, only to get rid of them to start from scratch, to future proof again. Just make them 100% for this game from the get go rather than trying to predict future technologies, and how fast they get to us, and that must apparently be fast since they so soon scrapped the GT6 cars to start future proofing the future proofed cars.

So because it didn't work out previously they should give up, regardless of the size of the benefits compared to the small amount of extra work it appears to require?

That's not what you originally said

That was in the context of "everytime a new game comes around".

 

[ImaRobot]

The difference between the time taken to produce a future proofed model and one that's not is pertinent though if you're trying to justify that future proofing is a waste of time.

Yeah, but until we get an exact example we can only follow the logic that doing something extra to ensure something usually takes more time than not.

A lot of time we hear that it takes an average of 6 months to do so. We've heard it from the two majors(T10 and PD) at least, so either PD is not doing anything different at all, or they're extremely efficient at recreating their cars in a reasonable time(likely not from what we've seen), or the term is just a marketing term.

So because it didn't work out previously they should give up, regardless of the size of the benefits compared to the small amount of extra work it appears to require?

Yes, because if they are just going to scrap everything that they themselves considered future proof, than maybe they should just stop doing that, or using that term. There is no benefit to us as it sits. Also, how would you know if its a small amount of work? You've already alluded to not knowing. Just like don't know if it's extra work, but everything points to it being a waste, in my opinion.

That was in the context of "everytime a new game comes around".

We're still in the same discussion from the get go, so, yeah, that's not what you originally said. In fact you basically disagreed.

 

[phil_75]

With what I've seen and heard, I am very disappointed in Gran Turismo Sport.

No doubt it is a beautiful game. I believe Kaz when he says GTS will have untouchable car models for this generation. GTS will possibly have the best lighting as well and run smoothly at a high rendered resolution. But I'm disappointed.

The efforts that has been put into car models and lighting hasn't been seen elsewhere in the game, and as a long time fan who's in love with the series: I am very disappointed.

Future proofing models is fine, but is taking so long to accomplish, is it really acceptable? Is this what we the real GT fans wanted? No.

I am certain I speak for the majority when I say we would have preferred other things prioritized this time around.

Instead of the best car models, I wanted the best sound (engine, effects, etc), the best physics, the most realistic whether effects (how impressed are we when it's not dynamic?), Time of day transition, realistic visual and performance impacting damage (something a step above all other titles), AI, Campaign and of course online racing.

While I am confident they will nail online racing, I fear (really fear) they will fall behind with the other very important features.

None of us can appreciate the level of detail in theses models unless we are focused on Scapes. This should be a racing game first and foremost.

I would gladly take dynamic resolution over dedicated "4k" if it meant we would see phenomenal dynamic weather effects, mind blowing visual damage, time of day transitions and the best car racing audio on the planet. This would make it a must buy for me and many others.

I should be more excited than this. Not worried. I feel betrayed. Because I LOVE GRAN TURISMO.

Couldn't have put it better.