I have not read all the post but some forza is a cool game but i wanted more than anything else is a driving wheel that was made for it. gt4 provided a very good steering wheel. yes we all know its price but the dfp is a lot better than the fantec. the dfp offer resistance the fantec offer vibration. you can offer all the realism you want but who wants realisim thru a joystick? if they made a better wheel than the logitech i would consider buying the game. good rental though but no gt4. logitech saved gt4 from defeat. if forza put the same effort in a steering wheel i would have chosen forza.