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Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 1' started by Front, Jul 25, 2004.
Joke of the year...Forza have better graphics than GT4!
That's my OPINION..
Thought I'd put my .02 cents in. I just picked up Forza Friday. I had a real learning curve with the Xbox controller and Forza physics initially. Finally picked up an Xbox last Thursday. I know why not just get the 360? $500.00+ is a little out of my casual spending limit. On to my thoughts; in my opinion Forza's graphics are somewhat better than GT as far as the tracks, they just look more realistic with better detail, hell, there are construction sites off of the side of the track in N'ring. The tracks actually have atmosphere depending on time of day and location. The night time driving is all too real. Great job on the lighting effects. The replay graphics are really good as well, I can't put my finger on what it is that makes it better than GT but there is something, if only marginally, but better. The customization of the cars is far superior, with various body molding kits, not just add a wing (fugly) and badabing badaboom you have front and rear downforce. It is also nice when you win a car in an ugly color all you have to do is paint it (pretty cool). The tuning of the cars leaves a bit to be desired; no tuning at the track other than loading a tune you previously saved. The mid level performance packages do not have tuning available, but you can definately feel the difference after installing them. The game interface is all to familiar (GT3). GT's world interface is leaps and bounds beyond Forza. GT definately has the hold on the in garage models.
As far as physics, I would have to say both have strong and week points. You notice tuning changes a little more in Forza. I also think Forza is a little more realistic, cars in GT4 are really just to easy to drive. However with GT you really get more of a feel of speed. They are on opposites in handling. Most cars I've driven so far have a tendency to oversteer and most all cars in GT initially have a strong tendency to understeer, which is all to easy to tune away.
My biggest fault is more in the platform than the games, the force feedback on the Xbox leaves mountains to be desired. I guess the little motors in the Xbox controllers just aren't big enough to vibrate the brick enough!!!
Enough for now. Bash away.
Sure GT4 looks better, I really cant complain too much. The games look similar, but GT4 pulls ahead with the acurate track visuals and the car models that are cleaned up a bit as compared to Forza.
But there is no excuse for GT4 not having online play, nor the fact that the only Cadillac in the game was a concept car.
Personally, I think Forza did a much better job with physics and tire wear. The cars feel like they are reacting better to your imputs as compared to GT4, and the tire wear is taken into full consideration in Forza... It does help to work with tire makers when making a racing game, remember that PD...
Ive played both, I own both, and although I havent beaten either yet, my expirience has been equally enjoyable for different reasons between the two...
Actually I think the track design and visuals are much cleaner and more realistic in Forza. And I also think that the car models are about the same--except the Merc SLR when braking doesn't popup the little rear breaking wing.
...After playing GT4 for the first time in a few months the other day, I noticed how crappy the asphalt textures were in the game. They looked like they were just painted on, not nearly as "realistic" as Forza. Forza did a much better job capturing what was around the track and a much higher resolution rate of the citys that were near the track. Again, GT4 just looked like they snapped a bunch of puctures and pasted them onto the sides of the track...
If PGR3 is any signal as to where racing games are headed, the next gen GT and Forza titles are going to kick ass.
My problem is when I go back to GT4 I can't seem to drive any of the cars because they all seem to have massive amount of understeer.
+ Good AI.
+ Car customisation.
- Cars look rubbish
- Tracks look rubbish
- Everything oversteers, including the stock Saab 9-3 (230hp, FWD) I was using. If I enter a 50mph corner at 120mph in ANY car, never mind an FWD one, the back will not come round, unless it's in Forza.
- Made-up tracks are rubbish
- Damage is poorly implemented (if I hit a stationary car at 125mph, I will NOT be continuing the race. I will not even be continuing living. Unless it's in Forza. Oh, and after the race it's all back to normal).
- Penalties are poorly implemented (explain to me how my point-to-point time, including penalties can be poorer than the 2nd place car's, but I still win)
- Handling is ridiculous. If someone PITs me, the car's tendency should be to rotate around the point of impact, not to go the other way.
- Rubbish background motion.
- Rubbish "live" shadows and reflections (Alpine Ring + Saab's rear screen = Epilepsy)
Gran Turismo 4:
+ Cars look good
+ Tracks look good
+ Handling is good
+ Slight tendency towards understeer which, though a little overdone is closer to reality
- Rubbish AI
- Rubbish penalties (though the method by which they are implemented is better than Forza's)
- Not online.
GT4's graphics and handling models (though with the understeer tuned out a little) with Forza's AI would be a killer game. I find it slightly ironic that the game with the rubbish AI which needs online play doesn't have it, and the game that doesn't need it because the AI is fine does...
Forza is just Need for Speed 2 with more cars in slightly more detail. So it's got car damage. Who cares when it's done this badly?
+Cars feel powerful
+Handling is pretty good, and you get a good sensation of grip from the tyres imo
+Engine sounds are pretty good
+Tracks are highly detailed
+8 cars on track
+Simple damage, both body and internal
+Reasnable racing AI
+Custom sound tracks
-Graphics are tatty, good textures in places, some nice effects, but overall rough.
-The made up tracks really do suck, and there's simply not enough. The night time city tracks are so bad it's shocking.
-Sound quality is low, while it's quite realistic sounding, it all sounds muffled.
-The bloody music...
+Cars look great
+A crap load of cars
+Good car handling
+Sound is crisp and clear
+Lots of tracks
+Very well made
-Lots of the same cars
-Engine sounds are just garbage
-Tracks are low detail
-No damage of any kind
-No online play
-Some dodgy handling issues
-Cars feel very tame
Both games are pretty good imo, personally, I think I'd go for GT4, it's better made.
!!!!!!!!!!! Uh oh the world s gonna end code_kev prefers a PS2 game over a Xbox game!!!!!! ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!!
It's good to see that people don't see me as biased...
lol now who would say that?
you know why they dont have ferrari,lamborghini, or porsche in gt4? ill tell you
to put them they have to have a license or some sort of "agreement" to let them put those. they cost TOO much. about 10 Gs. thats why.
Gran Turismo series - 23 million sales
Average of $22 per sale (taking into account premium first week prices and reduced rate "Platinum" sales) = $506,000,000
Yep, "10 Gs" is way too much for Sony to spend...
Quite why this is being rehashed (again) when it has little-to-no relevance to the thread and you resurrected a month-dead topic to post this escapes me.
Time to post my opinion on this again. Here's my take on it since I have both games. I've owned GT4 since around June last year, and Forza I got on the week in came out in May last year. I've since gotten the DFP for GT4 back in December and that's made it better. Anyway.
IMO, the big advantages of Forza over GT4 is that the developers listened to what people like me want, whereas PD didn't, or maybe they did, but they didn't listen to ME enough, here's why:
- I bet GT4 coulda had Ferraris and Porsches, but PD/Sony decided not to spend the extra cash paying these 2. Now you tell me, but EA has an agreement bla bla bla. Well how come PGR2 got Porsches and Ferraris? How come Forza got Porsches and Ferraris too? Maybe MS has an agreement I dunno. But I'm really willing to bet that PD coulda gotten Ferrari and real Porsches if they spent a lil bit more. But you say we got RUF, don't need Porsche. Well true, but.. Forza has a 959, Carrera GT, and a 962C and a 944 as well. Does GT4 have that? No, because there is no RUF equivalent of the 959 or the Carrera GT.
- GT4 may have more cars, but the selection of cars in Forza is way better IMO, and not just cause they have Ferraris and real Porsches. It has so many more supercars, like the Koenigsegg CC8S, the ME 4-12 and more. I can't think of all of them right now, and I know that GT4 has some special cars that Forza doesn't have, such as the Cien, the Vette ZR-1 and such. However, having played through both games already, I found myself wanting more from GT4's supercar selection everytime, not so with Forza.
- graphics. 30fps doens't bother me, it's still fully playable and just makes a racing game a bit more slower-paced. Anyway, I'll comment on that later. About graphics, I dont understand how anyone can say GT4s graphics are better. I think the replays are better, but that's it. I have played it at 1080i, it's not TRUE 1080i, I know what 1080i looks like because I get 9 channels in HD and they come in 1080i, and I also have Amped 2 and SC2 on my Xbox that run at 720p and I know how smooth and clear it looks. The GT4 1080i is nothing more than widescreen 480i upscaled which doesn't improve anything. Anyway, comparing GT4 with Forza at widescreen 480p, Forza just owns it in every way. All the details are a lot clearer, no blurry textures, you can't even make out the details on the cars in GT4 when they're a bit ahead of you. Well you can make out the car, but Forza just has way more detail present.
- gameplay. This is where Forza has its big advantage imo. Tight classes so that you can't have a ridiculously better car than AI, and gives you idea of what car you should use. Menus way easier and faster to use, you can choose eligible car for a race on the go, the tuning is more proper (i.e. bigger turbo ain't necessarily better), and the AI is much better.
And about the 30fps and 60fps thing. Yea 60fps is better. But it doesn't make for a better game. I found Forza's gameplay much better than GT4 due to much better sportscar/supercar selection, the AI is better, and the whole eligible car for specific races is much easier to figure out, in GT4 I always have to preview races to get an idea of what the hell is going on and even then it won't tell me the HP of those cars. That and plus the graphics are way better. I don't care what you think about the graphics, they are better in a technical sense in Forza, and I don't see that whole "GT4 looks way better from art direction" thing, I just don't. I see Forza having more detailed cars, less blurry tracks and looking way better in widescreen 480p, and pair that with better gameplay, you got a winner.
I will give kudos to GT4 for having Le Mans and cars such as the 787B and Sauber C9 and the Vette ZR-1 which Forza doesn't have. The gameplay though makes a big difference. I don't even have online either. I bet if I had Live, I'd think Forza would be even better, cause I bet the online is quite good.
Aaanyway, that's my take on it. It's quite late right now and I was bored so I wrote up this whole thing.
This is by far the most entertaining thread on all of GTP.
The first....150+ pages are all "Oh GT4 will dominate..blah blah"...Forza is released and the post count drops from 12+ a day to like 1-2 a week...for about 2 months...
Then someone comes back..
"GT4 is great forza is gay"...Then someone replies "nuh uh..you're gay"
Then after 4 pages, a couple people come to the agreement that "hey, neither of these games are perfect so let's agree on that"..
Then here comes random jackazz #197 to say "Pssh..GT4 lickz donkey ballz cuz it doesn't have damage or online"
There is one thing about GT4 that's so mind bendingly unrealistic it's funny.
Let me put it this way. Have you ever seen the gauges in a stock Honda CRX showing 240MPH? Or a Fiat Panda gauge reading a max of 180?
At least Forza gauges are more accurate.
^^Only the cool ones with neon underglow
*magic marker* yep all the time infact my Razor has one also!
Ok, I havent had internet for the past couple months and just got on and found this thread. i just have to put my 2 cents in.
forza > gt4
if you ever raced a car in real life on a track then youd know why.
Yeah, in real life it is so easy to hold a drift in a bend.....with an LMP
I'm not saying GT4 is more realistic. Just that your reasoning lacks some logic.
I say Toca Race Driver 3 wins!
No but seriously i think both games are evenly matched (forza + Gt4)
I like the fact that you can do Engine swaps in forza. I like the fact that i can drive the Nurburgring in GT4(supposed to be the most accurate track in gt4 or something)
In the end its ur preference.
I love both of them!
But i like Toca 3 so much better
I'll have to give Toca3 a shot, I've heard good things about it.
I like Forza a lot after living with it for a little over a week. It's definitely got its own flavor. But it has issues too.
The bots need to die. I have no doubt now that Electronic Arts made Forza. It's like a NFS:Underclass, and the bots try and ram you whether you drive cleanly or not.
The sound is broken, in that cars dozens of car lengths behind you sound like they're on your tail. If two or three of them are back there, I can barely hear my OWN car!
The 3D perspective is a little odd, and steering is just a little weird. It may be that EA coded the steering so that it more resembles the actual angle of the wheel, but it takes some getting used to. I wouldn't even start racing without a day's practice. GT4 feels so much like a car, and pointing a car is so much more like it is in real life.
You either get music in races AND replays or none at all. The heck??
Only one set of replay cameras. That's a shame because the game looks cool. It's not as realistic as GT4, which looks like video from The Speed Channel, but the colors are superb and look much more lifelike.
To be honest, both games bring good things to the table, and I'm sure Toca does too, but to say that "ZOMG Forza iz der uber GT killa" is just brain dead.
Something tells me you posted that at ForzaCentral, too.
I can't fathom where you get that notion.
This place is kind of dead, hrm...
Guy I'm not even gonna bother making a whole post, but I can't believe how utterly wrong you are in thinking that FM is a EA game. Seriously... are you on crack? (no disrespect meant).
Well, let's look at a few details and see if my crack addicted mind is working to your satisfaction.
The opening video is reminiscent of a few from the Need For Speed series.
The menu system is very much in the vein of the Need For Speed series in graphic design and flavor.
The original music, done by Junkie XL, has that same moody, ambient rock flavor that has been in almost every Electronic Arts game since the mid 90s. EA games have consistently had the same style of music, and I assume the same musicians, or many of them. I'm a big fan of it in fact.
The vehicles have a Need For Speed feel to them. This isn't a bad thing, just a flavor, just like a Gran Turismo, Toca, GTR or whatever system. In fact, Forza has the feel of a game which was designed by a team which has done racing games with a wide variety of vehicles for a while now.
When you upgrade your car, the way the camera swings around is identical to one of the Need For Speed games, complete with the stutter-back.
There are tracks, particularly the point to point races like The Shipyards, which look remarkably like tracks from NFS;U and one of the other ones, Porsche Unleashed or something. In fact, the way the point to point races end, with the cars basically slamming into each other in a comical pile up with parts flying, complete with drunken camera, is identical to one of them.
Forza has Porsche and Ferrari, which are rarities outside of EA racing games.
And there are a couple of other things but it's late and I want to browse some more. If Forza isn't an EA game, Microsoft either contracted a core team from EA or licensed NFS code and reworked it a bit. That's not a bad thing, it's just a matter of interest. I still think the non-Underground games are cool, and I do think that it would be a cool thing if Forza is made by EA. It means that a tradition is being carried forward by a good team. I prefer Polyphony, but I really dig this game, warts and all. I've been playing it 11 days straight and staying up too late to do it.
Plus, I'd hope that Forza 2 would be as big a jump in quality as GT5 will be over 4. If it's EA doing it, which I expect, I'm expecting good things. Hopefully including force feedback this time.
Eh, don't forget, Junkie actually had 1 or 2 of their songs in the NFS series.
I'd forgotten that. It's been a while since I'd watched relatives play Underground 1.
I'm actually listening to the menu music right now. I usually let it run for a good 30 minutes to an hour. It's really good, and I love the stuff they've put in the EA games for years. Those are some really talented guys with a passion for a good song.
Oh, and I have to say I'm sorry for mouthing off at you last month McL. Life kind of blew a tire and I let things get to me. :/
Come on, this is so not true. How is it reminiscent? It's got racing cars. No NFS game has racing vehicles, only road cars.
So what if it has the same music? That doesn't mean anything. That just means they wanted to put music similar to the good old NFS games when NFS was good. And the menu is nothing like the old NFS games. The old NFS games had a video running in the background at all times.
This is a load of bull..
.. so what? The only game where you could upgrade your car in NFS was Porsche Unleashed.
Enthusia has point to point races as well and the point to point was because fans like me want a point to point track similar to NFS Porsche Unleashed. BTW, it's ONE track, The Shipyards, regular and reverse. The other ones are autocross and uphill/downhill clearly inspired by Initial D.
Wrong. First of all, the last EA game to feature Porsche and Ferrari was NFS Hot Pursuit 2 in 2002, and before that, it was NFS Porsche in 2000 which only had Porsche. The new Most Wanted which came out like 6 months after Forza has Porsche just because EA has a Porsche exclusive again.
And there are other games with Ferrari and Porsche. PGR2 which came out in late 2003 has a full lineup of Ferraris and Porsches and it was done by Bizzare, and OutRun 2 has a full lineup of Ferraris, and GTR came out late 2004 has Ferraris and Lamborghinis and Porsches as well.
Anyway, you're on crack man. I've logged on over 200 hours on Forza, and I'm a huge huge fan of NFS games (NFS Porsche Unleashed is my favorite racing game of all time) and you are completely wrong when you say it's an EA game. If it was an EA game, it would:
- have in-car dashboard
- have way less cars
- have video in the background
- have MUCH more arcadey physics
I don't know where you came up with it feels like a NFS game for the controls, you must be on crack. Seriously, I've never heard something as propestorous before. If you really think it's an EA game, how come you're the only one that thinks so? Honestly go to ForzaCentral and make a new thread in main discussion and you will see that everyone will disagree with you because you are wrong. I don't mean to be rude to you, but you are completely wrong, I really don't see how you could get this idea.