Butch Coolidge
haha, you're so right!
GT4 vs LFS??
- Thread starter Boris Lozac
- 156 comments
- 7,301 views
haha, you're so right!
- 36
I agree that realism is about feel. But you need to be comparing it to a real vehicle. Sure thier cars in LFS might "feel" very real, but if it's not based on a real car then it's like looking at a picture behind tinted glass. Without a simulated car you can't see 100% how good the game engine is. Half of the realism factor for GT4 is that when I get in a datsun 280ZX it drives like CRAP just like my car in real life. With all the same understeer and body roll charictaristics.
In other words, it don't mean crap if the physics are good if the rest of the programming sucks.
In other words, it don't mean crap if the physics are good if the rest of the programming sucks.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,997
- Texas
True. Without a real car to simulate, the physics are great, but they are for cars that don't even exist.
But in terms, LFS wins the physics hands down.
And GT4's 24 Hour races can be a big joke.
I thought they might be hard, but after the racing I did last week, that was a piece of cake.
But in terms, LFS wins the physics hands down.
And GT4's 24 Hour races can be a big joke.
I thought they might be hard, but after the racing I did last week, that was a piece of cake.
Turn on SPEED channel right now and watch Le Mans.
Now go ride around in the Pescarolo in GT4 at La Sarthe.
Watch the replay.
If it is REALISM you want, then GT4 wins, no contest.
They even have camera positions in GT4 at La Sarthe almost identical to the ones that are showing me the real-life racing.
The Dunlop tire is most convincing, eh?
That's realism. And it doesn't even really have anything to do with physics.
Now go ride around in the Pescarolo in GT4 at La Sarthe.
Watch the replay.
If it is REALISM you want, then GT4 wins, no contest.
They even have camera positions in GT4 at La Sarthe almost identical to the ones that are showing me the real-life racing.
The Dunlop tire is most convincing, eh?
That's realism. And it doesn't even really have anything to do with physics.
- 1,165
everyone can recreate a real track or a real car, but the difference with LFS is that it recreates real physics. that is much more difficult to achieve.
GT4 has got lots of real cars, real tracks its definately the better car collection game.
LFS on the other hand gives you the best racing experience you can get.
20 cars on the track, driven by human beings vs. 6 cars driven by an utterly stupid AI. guess what is giving you the better racing experience?
in gt4 i can buy my dreamcars and drive them round the ring, i really like that.
in LFS, i get into a realistically looking car with realistic handling and race it around a realistically laid out racetrack, wheel to wheel with someone else, really fighting hard lap for lap against my real opponent getting real adrenaline in heaps.
furthermore there are a lot of features that GT4 does not have like really deforming tyres with dozens of different surface areas that get hot and used individually. damage to tyres, body, suspension and engine (in GT4 you hit a wall with 200mph and nothing happens...how can you call this realistic?).
in LFS you can even get your car on two wheels and drive around. i am pretty sure that this is not possible in most other games and simulations and shows the realistic approach that the LFS developers take. you can also tweak your car into a dragster with a third party tool and do wheelies...real wheelies, not those that happen in GT4 because of faults in the physic-engine.
GT4 has got lots of real cars, real tracks its definately the better car collection game.
LFS on the other hand gives you the best racing experience you can get.
20 cars on the track, driven by human beings vs. 6 cars driven by an utterly stupid AI. guess what is giving you the better racing experience?
in gt4 i can buy my dreamcars and drive them round the ring, i really like that.
in LFS, i get into a realistically looking car with realistic handling and race it around a realistically laid out racetrack, wheel to wheel with someone else, really fighting hard lap for lap against my real opponent getting real adrenaline in heaps.
furthermore there are a lot of features that GT4 does not have like really deforming tyres with dozens of different surface areas that get hot and used individually. damage to tyres, body, suspension and engine (in GT4 you hit a wall with 200mph and nothing happens...how can you call this realistic?).
in LFS you can even get your car on two wheels and drive around. i am pretty sure that this is not possible in most other games and simulations and shows the realistic approach that the LFS developers take. you can also tweak your car into a dragster with a third party tool and do wheelies...real wheelies, not those that happen in GT4 because of faults in the physic-engine.
- 337
But don't tell me about damage, it was already said before. .. PS2 CAN'T handle damage with the way PD wants it..
I am talking about physics, car behavior in normal surcumstances, not 2 wheel drive, it's not a bike...
Why would people lie here on this forum, when they say that their RL car behaves exactly like the one in the game..??
It's true, they didn't make the car to be able to do donuts, that's bad, but everything else feels right...
I am talking about physics, car behavior in normal surcumstances, not 2 wheel drive, it's not a bike...
Why would people lie here on this forum, when they say that their RL car behaves exactly like the one in the game..??
It's true, they didn't make the car to be able to do donuts, that's bad, but everything else feels right...
damage...schmamage...
I don't hit the walls.
The cars in LFS don't look as realistic as those in GT4.
The tracks in LFS don't look as real as GT4.
The racing in LFS doesn't look as real as GT4.
The AI is not a factor in LFS because I blew them away.
The control in LFS is sloppy.
Don't even get me started on the physics.
Oooo, it's got damage...it must be better.
I don't hit the walls.
The cars in LFS don't look as realistic as those in GT4.
The tracks in LFS don't look as real as GT4.
The racing in LFS doesn't look as real as GT4.
The AI is not a factor in LFS because I blew them away.
The control in LFS is sloppy.
Don't even get me started on the physics.
Oooo, it's got damage...it must be better.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,997
- Texas
Does it look like I agreed? No.DevilGTx
How the hell can you say GT4 is more realistic? Because the camera replays look like LeMans? No way.
There's so many thing that go into realism than just replays.
And I'm gonna stop here, because I'm sure live4speed will have something to say.
There are things in gt4 that's undoubtly unrealistic:
Tire damage-way to fast when gripping, way to slow when sliding.
Fuel consumpution-measured by distance in the game, not throttle-time.
Tire grip-as someone has said, lateral grip is greater than straight line grip relatively.
other than that, nothing bothers me.
By the way, LFS feels kinda same as GT4 EXCEPT:
Easy to lose control when going WOT from standing still
Easy to lose control under hard braking
Easy to slide out
Cockpit views!
Tire damage-way to fast when gripping, way to slow when sliding.
Fuel consumpution-measured by distance in the game, not throttle-time.
Tire grip-as someone has said, lateral grip is greater than straight line grip relatively.
other than that, nothing bothers me.
By the way, LFS feels kinda same as GT4 EXCEPT:
Easy to lose control when going WOT from standing still
Easy to lose control under hard braking
Easy to slide out
Cockpit views!
- 36
Well, honesty... I'd have to play it first but I'd bet the experience is more real in LFS. This opinion is mostly based off the fact that it has a realistic cockpit view, and it really make the driver work by the sound of it.
In all honesty, GT4 has an easy learning curve. Once you've figured out the game physics no car gives you real suprises out on the track. For most cars, the way they feel is determined by thier power to weight/tire grip. In REAL life, you can have to cars with the same power to weight with the same tires both with good suspention setups and they'll FEEL different. Not really the case in GT4. But then again, maybe I'm just being picky about things far ahead of our time.
Honesty, GT4 does a damn good job for it being PS2. I don't think GT4 could possibly be any better for the hardware it's on. As it is they claim solid FPS and it's jut not true. I've experienced FPS as low as the 5-10 range.
Honestly... both games seem to have thier pros and cons. But wich one gives you the adrenaline rush like real life? That would be MY determining factor.
In all honesty, GT4 has an easy learning curve. Once you've figured out the game physics no car gives you real suprises out on the track. For most cars, the way they feel is determined by thier power to weight/tire grip. In REAL life, you can have to cars with the same power to weight with the same tires both with good suspention setups and they'll FEEL different. Not really the case in GT4. But then again, maybe I'm just being picky about things far ahead of our time.
Honesty, GT4 does a damn good job for it being PS2. I don't think GT4 could possibly be any better for the hardware it's on. As it is they claim solid FPS and it's jut not true. I've experienced FPS as low as the 5-10 range.
Honestly... both games seem to have thier pros and cons. But wich one gives you the adrenaline rush like real life? That would be MY determining factor.
Dude, driving in real-life has an easy learning curve. So who cares?
I mean even an idiot can drive...come to Ohio and you'll see 'em all over the place.
And if you have been experiencing 5-10 fps then something bad is wrong with your PS2, and it's time to get a new one.
It is without a doubt, the finest piece of software that I own.
I mean even an idiot can drive...come to Ohio and you'll see 'em all over the place.
And if you have been experiencing 5-10 fps then something bad is wrong with your PS2, and it's time to get a new one.
It is without a doubt, the finest piece of software that I own.
- 758
- un_peacekeeper
not to interrupt this heated argument (lol), but GT4 really does run @60fps.
- 1,165
my point exactly. GT4 does the driving very good, but thats it. LFS on the other hand simulates everything. you can do donuts, you can do u-turns with the handbrake, you can drive on two wheels, you can crash...and so forth.Boris Lozac
so how can LFS not be more realistic than Gt4 when Gt4 is so limited?
sure i know that the ps2 can't handle damage. but does that make GT4 more realistic? that is one ridiculous counterargument...
DevilGTx
ever seen a real race?
20 cars, driven by human beings, gives you less realistic looking races than races against 5 stupid AI drivers?
sure, LFS lacks real cars and real tracks, but that take away any of the actual racing fun? i can assure you it does not.
besides, LFS has got the best controls of any simulations. you have more options to customize your controls than in any other sim. if you set them up properly they are perfect. in contrast to GT4 where you only have very few options.
LFS also supports any controller out there. to play GT4 properly you need the DFP, in LFS you can use setups with 3 pedals and H shifter and headtracking equipment to look around.
LFS just blows away the competition in regard to customizing controls, views, skins and setups.
GT4s replay looks better? yeah, but so what, i want to race, not watch replays.
- 36
maybe it's because my ps2 is first gen, but doing special events with two cars both sliding in dirt on screen the frame rate drops. Mabye not for very long, but it's there.
Oh, and the learnign curve/real life thing... You don't know what the hell i was talking about. Your talking about every day driving. I'm talking about the driving you do in GT4 and other race games. Most people don't hit over 75% throttle in a month long period, where as when you race you're at 100% more than half the time. Go get in a 10hp car in GT4, easy learning curve?
Ok, now lets get back to reality. Go drive a RR porsche and take it to it's limits. Then drive a 400HP CRX. Totally different experience and honestly, would take me at least half an hour to adjust from one to the other, even if I'd driven them both in the past.
Here's a good analogy. Imagine swimming in a normal pool, relazed, easy... Now imagine right after that jumping into a pool with water that's twice as thick. Imagine how hard it would be to get used to. Then imagine going from that to a supper thin water that's really hot. That's what it's like going from one car to the next in real life. And unless you've had the experience in real life you won't have any idea what i'm talking about. GT4 and other racing games are very easy compared to real life.
Just becasue driving a car on the street at normal street speeds is easy doesn't mean racing in real life has an easy learning curve. Go back to your dream world called GT4.
Oh, and the learnign curve/real life thing... You don't know what the hell i was talking about. Your talking about every day driving. I'm talking about the driving you do in GT4 and other race games. Most people don't hit over 75% throttle in a month long period, where as when you race you're at 100% more than half the time. Go get in a 10hp car in GT4, easy learning curve?
Ok, now lets get back to reality. Go drive a RR porsche and take it to it's limits. Then drive a 400HP CRX. Totally different experience and honestly, would take me at least half an hour to adjust from one to the other, even if I'd driven them both in the past.
Here's a good analogy. Imagine swimming in a normal pool, relazed, easy... Now imagine right after that jumping into a pool with water that's twice as thick. Imagine how hard it would be to get used to. Then imagine going from that to a supper thin water that's really hot. That's what it's like going from one car to the next in real life. And unless you've had the experience in real life you won't have any idea what i'm talking about. GT4 and other racing games are very easy compared to real life.
Just becasue driving a car on the street at normal street speeds is easy doesn't mean racing in real life has an easy learning curve. Go back to your dream world called GT4.
- 30,043
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
It has nothing to do with the game thoughDevilGTx
. I don't see how you feel real forumlas and maths that effect real life scenaros being used in the game as a gimmick and useless math. It's called physics and LFS recreates real world physics, not perfectley, but a damn sight better than GT4 does. You seem to be concentrating on what looks the best, but that has nothing to do with this thread. The original question was how do we feel about the physics? Vladamir's post hit the nail right on the head, I'm not saying enjoy LFS more than GT4 or anything like that. Anyway, you'll wither agree or dissagree and the argument will continue either way whatever side you're on.
- 5,611
- Gabkicks
- GabkicksX
the physics in LFS eat GT4 alive.. its just a fact. The game is made for sims without caring about the mainstream. GT4 sells out to please the majority and make money.
LFS's run by diehard fans of motorsport only concerned with bringing a racing game on the pc as close to reality as possible. Besides the physics being bounds above gt4, there's also an option for a manual clutch and h shifter. pluse its possibel to drift at low speeds as you should be able to in real life.
If you think gt4 is more realistic you're crazy..
LFS's run by diehard fans of motorsport only concerned with bringing a racing game on the pc as close to reality as possible. Besides the physics being bounds above gt4, there's also an option for a manual clutch and h shifter. pluse its possibel to drift at low speeds as you should be able to in real life.
If you think gt4 is more realistic you're crazy..
- 2,353
I've downloaded the LFS demo and so far I'm impressed ... heck, any game that simulates fuel and driver load as part of the weight and handling of the car already has my interest (add to this that they let me pick a female driver ) ... it looks a very interesting and promising title.
) ... it looks a very interesting and promising title.- 7
ever heard of jeremy clarkson from the show top gear? he did a show on gt4. you guy probably saw it though.
- 337
ickypuppet
You are kidding me right..!!
I email-ed them to make a show to test GT4 and comment on it... If that was because of my e-mail, i am gonna piss my pants right now!!!
ha ha ha... does anybody have a link please to that show, or recorded it, or something.. please!!!
Gabkicks
This guy takes the words right out of my mouth. Good post.
also,
A post earlier mentioned how the developers of LFS did a ****ty job because there are no real tracks or cars...or somthing like that.
You can't compare this aspect of the games to eachother. PD are what, over 100+ employees with a huge budget to buy the rights to these things. LFS are only 3 guys with a passion.
- 7
Boris LozacYou are kidding me right..!!
I email-ed them to make a show to test GT4 and comment on it... If that was because of my e-mail, i am gonna piss my pants right now!!!
ha ha ha... does anybody have a link please to that show, or recorded it, or something.. please!!!
yes he did. do a search on limewire or if not then ill just send it to you. they way he explain it, is that its just like real driving. (when he was driving the civic type r, it feels just like driving the real type r)
I love GT4, but I don't care how good you may or may not get the physics of a cars handling, the fact that the driver is not feeling the G forces, and that the controls are so artificial make the quest for the "Perfect Physics" seem silly, at least to me. I think GT4 is as good as you could want given you're really not gonna experience the real life driving experience, no matter how powerful or well done the game or the system it runs on.
- 7
the thing is that its just a game. but others need to hear it from a real driver. i mean a REAL race car driver thats been driving on track like i said it in the earlier post. that made me believe him, just seeing that video he did with gt4. man its crazy,
- 36
In responce to your post 356C, you're very right. With how real GT4 already is it's hard to tell the difference between it and anything better because you don't actually feel any of the g forces.
BUT
Can most people tell the difference between a 2,500,000 poly model and a 2,750,000 poly one? No, most people can't. Probly less than 5% of people can. Does that keep developers from making them just that 250,000 more? Nope, because more is more, and it is good my friend. We gotta have perfect physics before making the next revolution in gaming. Remeber when 3D games where a bid deal? That same feeling will happen again, trust me. They've already created a true 3D tv. There are many things on the horizon already, and so much more to be found.
BUT
Can most people tell the difference between a 2,500,000 poly model and a 2,750,000 poly one? No, most people can't. Probly less than 5% of people can. Does that keep developers from making them just that 250,000 more? Nope, because more is more, and it is good my friend. We gotta have perfect physics before making the next revolution in gaming. Remeber when 3D games where a bid deal? That same feeling will happen again, trust me. They've already created a true 3D tv. There are many things on the horizon already, and so much more to be found.
