GT4 vs Progect Gotham Racing 2

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:rolleyes:


When will you guys learn?

There is no game better then the next. You can LIKE a game better then an other, for various reasons, as some of you have proven in this thread by listing out what you like about either game.

It all comes down to what you like better, not what IS better.
A Ferrari is better then a Lada... Unless you are a lower class working man with 5 kids ands bills to pay, then suddendly the Lada doesn't seem have as bad. :)
 
Originally posted by live4speed
You see that episode of Top Gear?

Sure have :D
I'm a big fan of Top Gear, Clarckson is a God :p Although Vicky Butler-Henderson was easier on the eyes :p

They're now showing thos old BBC shows on Dutch TV aswell (hate comercials breaks inbetween them though :irked: ) An dI think that the Lada-Lotus show is going to be aired tomorrow.

The 2nd & 3rd links I posted actually are that Top Gear Feature, go download! :)
 
Downloading now, I hate to say this, but thats a Lada I wouldn't mind owning, it still doesn't look good but imagine burning off from a 911 turbo at the lights.
 
Hehe... Ferrari Enzo or Lada-lotus?

Give me that black & silver one please :)
I think that Lada is seriously cool. I also have great respect for what Lotus have done whit it. I've driven that type of Lada coupe years back (Mhh hasbeen over a decade actually :rolleyes: ) when I worcked for a Billiard Shop. The cars we had were 4 Lada Rivas (1*1600 Estate, 1*1500 2*1200) And a Volvo 244. The Boss' idea behind that was that they were rugged and hardly ever broke down, also cheap in maintanance.

Driving them was hell... Shifting was a gamble, you just moved the stick and hoped it would find a gear, any gear. Turning the steering wheel was like turning teh whell on a Ocean liner, you keep turning but nothing happenes :)
 
:eek: wow a Lada Lotus!!

Reminds me of my Uncles old Lotus Sunbeam, christ that car was fast & it had same paintscheme. Heh, when he made it backfire @ night it could illuminate the entire road :D Only reason he got rid of it was because he simply got bored or patching up rust holes :lol:

My other Uncle always said he was gonna fit his 250Bhp (Fiat?) rally engine in a Skoda Rapide although unfortunately he never did :( Hmmm, would fit in my car also though :D
 
A few facts:

PS2 can do 5.1 sound in game.
It's called DTS which is technically superior to the Xbox's DD5.1. First of all, DTS uses a higher bitrate for encoding the audio so it should technically sound better. Also, very few Xbox games, if any, actually do proper center sound chanel seperation.

PS2 also uses a different form of Pro Logic II. It can actually encode 5.1 sound. And lastly, Pro Logic II can be expanded upon in software. FFX-2 is the first console game to use Pro Logic II EX. Then, we also have Sony's sound engine which can also give higher fedelity than the Xbox's DD5.1.



Here's something else to look at.

Here is what gets advertised for the Xbox specifications:

250 MHz GPU
300 MHz Ram
733 MHz Pentium III

Here are the actual specs:

233MHz GPU
200MHz DDR Ram
733MHz Pentium III / Celeron Hybrid. (Weaker than a Pentium III)


And one other interesting fact about the Xbox:

This is a simple HDTV guide for a reference to the following paragraph:
-----------------------------------------------
480i = 640x480 pixels @ 30htz

480p = 640x480 pixels @ 60htz in a widescreen format

720p = 1280x720 pixels @ 60htz in a widescreen format

1080i = 1920x1080 pixels @ 30htz in a widescreen format
--------------------------------------------------

The Xbox can not do any resolution above 1024x768 pixels. What does this mean you ask? It means that no Xbox game runs at 720p. Before the fanboyism sets in and you start sending hate mail let me clarify some things. The Xbox uses a Conexant Decoder Chip for its output display. To be precise, the part numbers for this chip are [CX25871-13 / E145981 / 0134]. The decoder chip cannot accept a signal greater than 1024x768 pixels from the Xbox. While that is a lot of pixels it isn’t 720p or 1080i. To get that resolution the decoder chip basically up-converts the output to fit in the 720p or 1080i format. The game is still being output from the Xbox at a lower resolution. The resolution could be 640X480 or 1024x768 or something in between but it is not 1280x720 or 720p. This means you aren’t getting any better quality and the Xbox isn’t rendering your game at a higher resolution.

Let me add something else while I'm at it:

The PS2 is based off of a processor design that began with Hewlet Packard. It's coined as an EPIC processor. This is similar to the newer Intel Itanium chip. But the PS2 has those highly efficeint Vector Units added on. It's basically a version of a RISC III processor but with a RISC IV instruction set plus vector units. So in the end, the EE can process more instructions per clock than a standard RISC IV.
And to go even further with this.... A RISC based design uses less memory bandwidth than a CISC based design. It's all in the name RISC which stands for Reduced Instruction Set Computing. It's strength is in calculating very small basic instruction set code over and over and over and very high speeds. These types of processors don't need half the amount of bandwidth CISC based chips consume.
A standard Vector Unit in the EE can hold a small amount of micro or macro code in it's registers and process the data over and over without pulling it through the entire system bus. In other words the PS2 is much more efficient with it's code than the Xbox.

And to elaborate more on the memory issue...

The PS2 has a total of over 40 MB of ram, not 32. That 32 MB of ram isn't unified like the Xbox ram. On the PS2 you can use the full 32 MBs for graphics and code. On the Xbox you ahve to split that 64MB up. Part of it is for storing textures, talking with the main CPU, storing sound data, etc... This lowers the available bandwidth for the GPU and levels out the playing field between the two consoles.

The reason you haven't seen much done on the PS2, up until now, isn't because it is the weaker system. It's simply because developers need to use the PS2 in the way it was designed. Textures need to be streamed from the disc instead of stored on the console. When you start storing texture data in that 32MB of ram you start limiting the bandwidth to the Graphic Synthesizer making it do extra work.

I'll stop boring you now...

I will say this. GT4 Prologue is not the finished product. It is a demo, even Kikizo.com stated GT4 looks much better in it's demo state than PGR2 did. I can guarantee there will be more polish and some tweaks to the graphic engine in the months to come before the release date. I expect less pop-up, more polish, and possibly a few more effects added in. We haven't even seen water effects yet.

Xbox may have the edge in power but the PS2 has the edge in flexibility.
 
Actually, any thing that can display 920x540p is allowed by law to be considered high-definition (720p). Most high-def plasma TVs are 1024x768 resolution, BTW.
 
well techidiot, you kissed some sony ass there, I love you little fanboys, who with OVERWHELMING evidence still cling on to the belief that the ps2 is actually as fast/ faster then the GC and XBOX. Most reasnable people can accept the fact that the ps2 is easily the weakest of the bunch, slower older hardware, but a select few feel the need to quote dumb fanboy websites, and talk techno crap pretending they understand it. The simple fact is Faster cpu + more ram + dedicated 3d hardware = better graphics. Think of it like pcs, a raddy 9800 beats a tnt2 no matter how much you optimise it. You seem to be making excuses for sony for picking a crappy CPU that no bugger can program. Next you'l be saying that GT3 uses 25% of the ps2s power, then rabbiting on about "un-tapped potential", sheeesh. :lol:

I love it when ps2 fanboys feel the need to explain why the ps2 is faster, they trash the xbox specs, but believe anything that supports the "ps2 is faster" argument.

I love my ps2, but get a fricking grip techidiot.

http://www.pcvsconsole.com/features/consoles/

there you go, an UNBIASED source :P
 
hopefully that'll keep him quiet for a bit. lol. He's like one of those guys that latch onto the idea that a built n.a. v8 is less efficient than a 4 cylinder with a monster turbo and crazy uncompromisingly rich fuel delivery system (with about the same power output) simply because the v8 is not relatively complex. A person who cannot get to grips with the fact some simpler approaches are just more efficient and less troublesome than their ideas of good engineering.:rolleyes:
 
MW AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The old 25% argument. Cobra, that was dissmissed as crap about 2 years ago by all sane gamers. :rolleyes:

oh and PLEASE stop posting crap links to dumb sites talking rubbish. People like you only hear the stuff you want to hear.
 
So why doesn't Gt4 have skid marks, reverse lights, interiors, damage, animated drivers, a bigger draw distance, 3d spectators, higher detailed tracks, bump mapped high res textures, decent AI, and 20 cars on the track at once etc etc when they have an extra 75% of power to play with? Because it's "bull" as you like to put it. Good luck getting out of that cobra, your gonna need ALL your biased web sites for that one. Must be the POWER of the EE, it's SOOO complex it can't so skidmarks as the programmers arn't good enough for it's 1337 hardware. Remember kids, making the hardware allmost impossible to use means it's better DUHHH! ofc I'm being sarcastic, but you get my point.
 
I havn't played GT4, but I assume it's gonna be better then, well everything :)Iv'e played GTp though. Pgr2 is still my current no1 racing game though. Brilliant.

I'm NOT KNOCKING GT4, I think it's gonna be AMAZING, but....some people are just dumb.
 
Who's to say gt4 is maxing the ps2? For all we know, gt4 could be using like 60% or higher of the ps2's power. There are other things to deal with besides graphics, and the AI will be superb, the physics, there are more things to gt4 than gt3. Didn't some gaming mag say there would be 3d crowds or possible 3d crowds in the final game? I remember seeing some mag scan here. If you compare gt3's track detail to gt4's track detail, you'll be stunned to see how gt3 is put to shame.
 
Cobra, did you lose your brain? And I'm aware there are more things to worry about then graphics, 3d crowds eh...ok cobra, i BET you £5 that the final version will NOT have 3d crowds, hell they can't even get skidmarks in, let alone 3d crowds. BTW the AI in GTp was, well non existant, so no human element for you bucko! :lol: They stick to the tracks GT3/c style.

Show me the mag scan with an ACTUAL 3d crowd screenshot, in game, with the speed dials etc, not some crappy dev shot, like the trash you posted before and claimed was in game :P i won't even mention the car off a cliff claim...oops just did. :P I'm sorry but I just can't believe anything you say, as your a persistant liar.
 
Originally posted by code_kev
Cobra, did you lose your brain? And I'm aware there are more things to worry about then graphics, 3d crowds eh...ok cobra, i BET you £5 that the final version will NOT have 3d crowds, hell they can't even get skidmarks in, let alone 3d crowds. BTW the AI in GTp was, well non existant, so no human element for you bucko! :lol: They stick to the tracks GT3/c style.

Show me the mag scan with an ACTUAL 3d crowd screenshot, in game, with the speed dials etc, not some crappy dev shot, like the trash you posted before and claimed was in game :P i won't even mention the car off a cliff claim...oops just did. :P I'm sorry but I just can't believe anything you say, as your a persistant liar.
I knew you I would bet you the final game will have 3d crowds. Now can you read? In the post you replied to I clrealy said the final game might have 3d crowds and here is the mag that says so
PSM%20February%203.jpg

Look and little box above the crowd.
 
I've read that mag myself, but not once has Sony or PD said there might be 3d crowds, it's called speculation. You can only go off whats blatantley obviouse, like GT4 will have more cars and tracks than weve seen and what has been said by PD. If GT4 has 3d crowds, fantastic, but it's so unlikeley that PD will waste so much power on that instead of other things like the ai, which I'm very worried about, I will love the game either way, but from the latest builds and GT4P it doesn't look promising so far, but that is an issue PD are well aware of and I hope they get it sorted. The bottom line is that GT4 isn't out yet, you can't compare GT4 to PGR2, you can compare GT4P to PGR2, in which case PGR2 has more content, better graphics (not models) but GT4P has imo better physics, as I am a sim freak and although I like PGR2 it's not as precise as GT4P. Less arguuing over speculation, and more facts, I don't mind if you want to carry on aguing till your graves but don't argue over speculation.
 
Yes, I too am fearing the perfromance of the Artificial Idiots. I would rather see lower quality crowds, and backgrounds, for improved AI performance. But, PD have to make this game appear like a beautiful game in pics on the net and in the magazines, because that is the only place it will exist. This game is never coming out.

So far, four people, including myself, have said not to argue or compare a game that is not even out yet. They're doing it anyway, and they'll keep doing it.
 
WOW COBRA YOU PROVED ME WRONG! lol, a caption in a mag. Well then I speculate that GT4 will have monster trucks with laser guns. Cobra, heres the bit I can't understand, rather then give it 3d crowds, why not add skid marks and reverse lights.....
 
God they better improve the AI if its gonna be delayed till autumn :mad:

Would be so nice to race some realistic AI cars, instead of the usual GT drone cars. :(

Oh & judging by cobras method of measuring console power, if GT3 uses 25% of the PS2's power, GT4 uses 60% of the PS2's power then PGR2 must use around 18% of the Xbox's power & Sega GT Online must use around 17% (including 12 opponents online :p ) optimisation isn't about unlocking 'extra power' its simply making the most of the hardware you've got (Something PD is exceptional at) ;)

I'll rip off a quote from War of the Worlds here :
"The chances of fully 3D spectators in GT4 tracks, are a million to one he said dooooooeeeddooooo" :lol:
 
Originally posted by Axe_Gaijin
MY GAMES CONSOLE CAN BEAT UP YOUR GAMES CONSOLE!!

Neener neener neener...
Oh yeah, OH YEAH?? ...but, but...:( but my TV is 100Hz:trouble: has 4 speakers:irked: and beats up urs in the 1st round with K.O.:mad:
 
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