GT5 2.0 Disappointment Thread

[blah blah blah]

If I'm honest you're whingeing a bit. You can't realy expect Kaz to attend to all your needs. All at once. Shut up and wait for a few more updates to come through. In fact, you should be thankful that this update came along at all. So, Shut Up and listen to the Rolling Stones when they say you can't always get what you want.

 

[blah blah blah]

BTW when I say that I am quoting the first post^^^

 

[Kobooi]

Again no seasonal event on Spa.
Next week, right? Everything's gonna be better next week. And if not, then next month with the patch, or otherwise with GT6, or GT7 for sure.

 

[Tornado]

I don't understand why you would assume there would be a Seasonal Event at Spa in the first place.

 

[Kobooi]

I don't understand why you would assume there would be a Seasonal Event at Spa in the first place.

Assume? Common business sense. With no offline events on DLC tracks, the number of downloads of the next track pack is gonna take a deep dive.
The reason for my disappointment though is not a failed assumption but a failed hope. A hope that was pretty realistic - why *wouldn't* PD create a seasonal on Spa, it's not like they're following a scenario, the seasonals is a collection of random events.

 

[PantalonUK]

Assume? Common business sense. With no offline events on DLC tracks, the number of downloads of the next track pack is gonna take a deep dive.
The reason for my disappointment though is not a failed assumption but a failed hope. A hope that was pretty realistic - why *wouldn't* PD create a seasonal on Spa, it's not like they're following a scenario, the seasonals is a collection of random events.

I can't help but think about the new disappointment thread from the people who didn't buy the track pack

I don't disagree with you, I'd welcome a seasonal. However you could just go on arcade turn up AI difficulty, chose your car and away you go, job done

 

[Kobooi]

However you could just go on arcade turn up AI difficulty, chose your car and away you go, job done

That's exactly how I drive my Camaro on Spa. But as I pass the leader halfway the first lap with the AI cranked up all the way, and I get no rewards, I get tired of it pretty quickly.
I'm ok with PD not putting effort into gameplay, but then they should just release a good event creator. I'll make my own gameplay then, and they can focus on tracks and cars.

 

[CSLACR]

Assume? Common business sense. With no offline events on DLC tracks, the number of downloads of the next track pack is gonna take a deep dive.
The reason for my disappointment though is not a failed assumption but a failed hope. A hope that was pretty realistic - why *wouldn't* PD create a seasonal on Spa, it's not like they're following a scenario, the seasonals is a collection of random events.

But then we'll have 15 threads needing locked complaining "I can't do the new seasonal! How DARE PD FORCE US TO BUY DLC!!!! THIS IS BS!!!

Whether it's people wanting to continue getting all golds on every seasonal, or basically just wanting the DLC to use for free, we'll get 'em. 👎

 

[PantalonUK]

That's exactly how I drive my Camaro on Spa. But as I pass the leader halfway the first lap with the AI cranked up all the way, and I get no rewards, I get tired of it pretty quickly.
I'm ok with PD not putting effort into gameplay, but then they should just release a good event creator. I'll make my own gameplay then, and they can focus on tracks and cars.

It really does differ from car to car. I did a race on SPA with Kaz's 24hr GT-R and it was 'quite' challenging.

 

[Tornado]

Assume? Common business sense. With no offline events on DLC tracks, the number of downloads of the next track pack is gonna take a deep dive.

I'd imagine the risk of that (which is very low, because I highly doubt people bought Spa so they could use it in Seasonal Events) is more than outweighed by the risk involved of updating the seasonals in a way that prevents most GT5 players from playing them. "Common business sense" dictates that you don't piss off the majority of your customers to throw together something that only a handful of them may care about.

 

[Kobooi]

I'd imagine the risk of that (which is very low, because I highly doubt people bought Spa so they could use it in Seasonal Events) is more than outweighed by the risk involved of updating the seasonals in a way that prevents most GT5 players from playing them.

That's nonsense. If people feel the DLC is not supported in the game, they will not buy DLC anymore. Why pay for something you can't use (enough) offline and that you can play for free online.
There is no business risk when people can not play a seasonal event because they didn't buy a DLC. On the contrary, it can push them to buy DLC. And nobody says all seasonals need to be run on DLC - there used to be 7 or 9 events per week, 1 or 2 of those on DLC is not gonna make a lot of people so pissed that they won't buy GT6 (if that ever comes out).

 

[cuco33]

In GT4, I'm pretty sure that the brake upgrades didn't do anything.





One that, with one exception, effects all console racing games.


Neither would I. In real life.


Because PD endowed all the cars with spec tires and thus braking distances should be similar among them all.


In real life. In a game, unless brake fade is modeled (and I can only think of two games that I've ever played where it is), brake upgrades are worthless.


See above.


And having brake upgrades have a noticeable in-game effect (by which I assume you mean notably decreased stopping distances) is unrealistic, as is befitting of an arcade racer.

Because real life brake upgrades don't do that. At best, you may get a few feet shorter distances at high speeds simply by virtue of the brakes reaching the ABS/lockup threshold minutely faster; but you may very well end up with worse distances due to greater rotational inertia.

Sorry but I disagree. Brake upgrades are just as important as the other upgrades you do in these games. It's not just about brake fade here. It's about how well and quick the brakes will get to lock up. A small brake system with undersized rotors, small calipers with not much brake contact area will not brake as well nor lock up as quick as those with larger or better systems. When the brakes actually lock up, then it doesn't matter what brake system is there as it's locked up. But getting to that lock up condition is improved dramatically via brake upgrades. I've upgraded brake systems on 2 of the 3 cars I've owned and noticed a drastic improvement in braking. Both cars were equipped with ABS (which usually didn't actuate) but braking was much improved. I didn't have to press the brake pedal all the way down as it was biting a lot sooner and a lot quicker, and due to the SS braided lines, better brake fluid, better pads and larger rotors, there was no 'slop' or looseness when braking like the factory systems had. Mind you, I did OEM upgrades (1 system w/larger drilled and slotted rotors and the other system with plain flat faced but larger rotors from factory), not full blown big brake kits from Stoptech, Brembo, etc.

Besides, for some reason in GT5 you can brake better in game by braking and pinging redline during downshifts at the same time. I agree with the comment about brake bias adjustments isn't the solution to not having brake upgrades in a game that has upgrades throughout. Also toss in tire pressure adjustments to as another questionable tuning feature that is lacking.


To be on topic, I think this spec2.0 update is just OK. Not grande like I was originally expecting but many welcome additions for sure, even the blacked out cockpits that they implemented for their ported standards. A little sloppy but I wasn't expecting fully modeled interiors for the remaining 800+ cars as you see in the standards.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

If outcry hadn't been so vicious and sudden against them, PD was seriously going to try to get away with charging you for each individual copy of the cars they included in the DLC pack. That is comically greedy compared to literally any other developer.

That's absurd and you have no facts to back that up.

In fact, why don't you list the many developers of racing games over just the last few years, and let's compare their DLC conditions and cost to that of GT5, and while we are at it, let's compare total content, cars and courses - oh, let's not stop there. Let's also compare how many versions of those games came out where people had to buy the game again.

You need a serious dose of reality check if you honestly think PD is comically greedy compared to other developers. That's piratically the most ridiculous thing I've read so far about GT5, and that's saying something considering the vast quantity of misinformation and FUD.

When you start discovering certain popular racing games that sell for $60 with 10% of the cars that GT5 has and then have the audacity to sell individual DLC cars for as much as $3 a pop - and release that DLC the week the game came out - thus clearly the content could have easily been included in the game - then come back to me and try to convince me that PD is comically greedy.

It's "literally" one of the most ridiculous comments to make, with no facts to back it up, and plenty of evidence to show GT5 is, and has been one of the best bargains in terms of content/cost, and on top of that, they aren't releasing moderately different versions every 1-2 years to fatten their wallets like certain other very well known developers you seem to be completely unaware of.

I'm talking about the way the DLC was (and technically still is at this point) implemented, where if you wanted to own more than one of any of the cars you had to rebuy the DLC to get a second set of them.

Not again... list me all the DLC cars from all the other racing games that allow you to have multiple copies of the same DLC car.

[CRICKETS]

Not only that, but technically speaking you can't buy the same DLC item from the PSN store. Once you buy it, you get to re-download it as many times as you like, and maybe you aren't aware of it, but unlike on the PS3, on certain other consoles, most DLC is tied to the user that bought it. Perhaps it's all the people abusing Sony's generous option to allow you to add your account to as many as 5 PS3, and allowing every user on all five PS3 to share the same games and DLC.

Finally, if someone wants to "refresh" their DLC cars without having to use credits in the GT Auto shop, they can either delete their game data and the DLC will be re-added to your game save, or you can take your game save over to a friend's house or use a different PS3 if you happen to have another, log into GT5, save your game save, then take the game save back to the other PS3 and voila - all the DLC cars will be brand new.... or just use some credits to rebuild the engine and chassis, as the game was clearly designed to do.

FACTS > FUD

 

[Samus]

Not again... list me all the DLC cars from all the other racing games that allow you to have multiple copies of the same DLC car.

Forza definitely does. I think Shift does as well.

Most other games don't because it's not required as you can't modify the cars in any way. You don't need two of the same car in Burnout, as a random example.

Not only that, but technically speaking you can't buy the same DLC item from the PSN store. Once you buy it, you get to re-download it as many times as you like, and maybe you aren't aware of it, but unlike on the PS3, on certain other consoles, most DLC is tied to the user that bought it. Perhaps it's all the people abusing Sony's generous option to allow you to add your account to as many as 5 PS3, and allowing every user on all five PS3 to share the same games and DLC.

Yes you can, that is exactly how the GT5 DLC is currently set up. You can buy all of the packs over and over (at a cost each time) except the track DLC as you only need one copy of that.

Finally, if someone wants to "refresh" their DLC cars without having to use credits in the GT Auto shop, they can either delete their game data and the DLC will be re-added to your game save, or you can take your game save over to a friend's house or use a different PS3 if you happen to have another, log into GT5, save your game save, then take the game save back to the other PS3 and voila - all the DLC cars will be brand new.... or just use some credits to rebuild the engine and chassis, as the game was clearly designed to do.

FACTS > FUD

Or PD could have just added the DLC cars to the dealership as is common sense. Don't tell me they couldn't have done it, they did it with the free cars in the Spec 2.0 update. Instead they chose an unlock/code/direct delivery system.

Your "facts" are pretty poor.

 

[Tornado]

It's "literally" one of the most ridiculous comments to make

The only thing ridiculous here is that you went on this long tirade about stopping the spread of misinformation when the entirety of your post is made up of nothing but exactly that.




I would put a lot more stock in what you are saying if the "facts" you brought to the table to support it were actually true. For example:

Not only that, but technically speaking you can't buy the same DLC item from the PSN store.

This is patently, 100% false. You get ONE set of the DLC items (tracks excepting) with the DLC purchase. One set of paints. One set of cars. One set of suits. ONE.
If you want more cars than that (like, for example, you want a set of DLC cars without upgrades and one with), you buy them again on PSN. If you use up the paints you bought or want another of a certain color, you buy the paint set again on PSN. You want more than one driver to dress in a certain racing suit, you buy the suit pack again on PSN.
That is how GT5's DLC works, and other than the cars being added to the dealership in December like they should have been from the start (and, you should know, they are in the Forza games), that is how it will continue to work. You don't have the option of deleting the game data and redownloading the DLC to "reset" it because that isn't even where the DLC is saved, and it was implemented into the game that way on purpose.

That you were completely ignorant about what was probably the most blatant problem people had with the DLC as it was implemented in your rush to defend PD and Sony makes me not want to bother responding to any of the rest of your post; and reading it over shows large amounts of complete nonsense and blind bias that I honestly would not expect a member of your standing and intelligence in this community to post, particularly not a member who frequently talks about the dangers of spreading false information as you do and just did.






I'll try to be polite as possible about this: Go read up on how the GT5 paid DLC actually works, then approach this conversation with an informed opinion. At that point I will be perfectly happy to debate any grievances you still have with my statements. But when you play that misinformation card that you love so much and then proceed to post several major and obvious factual inaccuracies which 30 seconds of research would tell you are nonsense, I see no reason to believe that an actual debate can occur because (and please take this as a statement of fact rather than an insult) you don't actually know what you are talking about on this matter; and it shows.

Sorry but I disagree. Brake upgrades are just as important as the other upgrades you do in these games. It's not just about brake fade here. It's about how well and quick the brakes will get to lock up. A small brake system with undersized rotors, small calipers with not much brake contact area will not brake as well nor lock up as quick as those with larger or better systems. When the brakes actually lock up, then it doesn't matter what brake system is there as it's locked up. But getting to that lock up condition is improved dramatically via brake upgrades. I've upgraded brake systems on 2 of the 3 cars I've owned and noticed a drastic improvement in braking. Both cars were equipped with ABS (which usually didn't actuate) but braking was much improved.


I didn't have to press the brake pedal all the way down as it was biting a lot sooner and a lot quicker, and due to the SS braided lines, better brake fluid, better pads and larger rotors, there was no 'slop' or looseness when braking like the factory systems had. Mind you, I did OEM upgrades (1 system w/larger drilled and slotted rotors and the other system with plain flat faced but larger rotors from factory), not full blown big brake kits from Stoptech, Brembo, etc.

Based on my experience I don't think GT5 models the first half of your post (regarding quicker lockup speeds), and it certainly doesn't model the pedal feedback part of the equation (unless I'm misreading what you are saying).

There is no business risk when people can not play a seasonal event because they didn't buy a DLC.

Except for the bad mojo between GT5 players and PD that could be caused by providing meta content promised for everyone only to those who ponied up extra money.


I also have to imagine that it is sort of a moot issue, because the problems you mentioned with the DLC tracks (inability to really do anything with them offline) apply to basically all but a handful of the tracks in the game and is a problem with GT5 itself rather than the DLC; and considering the frenzy Spa whipped up I 'd assume (though perhaps wrongly) that most of the people who bought it couldn't care less that it is only really usable online.

 

[Kobooi]

I 'd assume (though perhaps wrongly) that most of the people who bought it couldn't care less that it is only really usable online.

I can imagine the meetings at PD.
Kaz: I want to create track DLC.
Finance guy: what's the market for such DLC?
Kaz: it's huge, but dominated by online gamers.
Finance guy: ok, how will we charge?
Kaz: for those online gamers we're gonna make it so that they don't need to buy it actually to use it.
Finance guy: so only the smaller group of offline gamers will need to buy the DLC?
Kaz: correct, but we'll limit that number as much as possible by not creating any need or incentives to use the DLC offline.
Finance guy: excellent, I like what I hear.

 

[Tornado]

And you think another thrown together chase the rabbit Seasonal is going to get anyone to buy the DLC that wasn't already planning on it?

 

[Kobooi]

And you think another thrown together chase the rabbit Seasonal is going to get anyone to buy the DLC that wasn't already planning on it?

It's certainly gonna stop people like me -who were planning to buy the next track DLC- from having to conclude it's not necessary to buy it in order to use it to the fullest.

 

[Racedude]

In GT4, I'm pretty sure that the brake upgrades didn't do anything.

Unless you picked a car that had Drum Brakes or outdated disc systems as stock. There really was a difference in braking distances on those cases.

 

[another_jakhole]

It's certainly gonna stop people like me -who were planning to buy the next track DLC- from having to conclude it's not necessary to buy it in order to use it to the fullest.

Except you can't do free runs. That's why I HAD to buy the DLC track pack.

Seasonals aren't everything. I'll go as far as to say that people who don't use Practice/Arcade Free Runs/Time Trials all the time are missing out.

Not everybody can be pleased.

Toronado, if you look at the big picture, PD is not greedy. DLC wasn't implemented the way we all would have liked. If PD really was greedy, Kaz a.k.a. PD, wouldn't have cared and he would have ignored us like some people think PD does. He announced PD would change it in an UPDATE after saying he didn't like the way DLC was distributed.

Sony is the "culprit". I don't like saying it, but in this case, Sony's greedy. Even then, this greed is nothing like Turn 10/Microsoft greed. Does Turn 10/MS have to sell DLC the way they do? In THIS case, Turn 10 is responsible for screwing over their fans.

First day DLC, First month DLC. It can only be said so many times. Tough luck to the people who buy the greed. They keep their money from MS and keep from getting additional content that could have easily made it into the game (First day/month DLC).

Two dollars per car is cheap, but it's a sad number if you take into account the value of ONE car model, then add the costs up in the end.

PD could have been dumb and greedy by not updating the game. People say PD was expected/obligated in updating GT5 for releasing it half-finished, so if PD didn't we would have a great chance to call them "greedy".

First of all, Kaz didn't want to release it. Secondly, other big-time developers show no support to their fans or their previously released games.
Calling PD greedy is weird. They can stop supporting GT5 WHENEVER now that they have updated the game as much as they have a year later.

PD never had to make GT5 Prologue. Doing it made them money $$$, helped them learn from feedback, and it gave us a chance to use a current-gen GT while waiting. That "demo" was even updated. Businesses/people want money/fun. The big picture is: PD was never obligated in supporting their projects after releasing them and they never needed to please their fans; that's a choice and a role that Kaz chose for his team in respect of his customer base.

Kaz wouldn't have had to reverse the account ID locked DLC decision if he didn't care about the consumer. He doesn't have to have a twitter account. He isn't obligated to do anything, besides working on Future projects and nothing more. If that ever happens, then greed can be mentioned.

FYI (edit - FYI wasn't what I really meant), or And another thing, or Also,
Digital-Nitrate had the right IDEA and I agree with him on some parts, but not about the DLC which you, Toronado, have corrected.
The first quote reply from Digital-Nitrate about the greed I agree with. The rest about how DLC is used.. ^^^

 

[Spagetti69]

Whilst I might agree that Day one DLC isn't a great start PD did the same.
Stealth cars and pre order bonuses on day one too.

Stealth cars are already in the game. Given Forzas customisation options I could have created them myself using the tolols provided. At least Forzas DLC is extra models. Buying RM updates as DLC is a bit rip off, no?

Charging for one off paints a bit over the top too no?

Anyway it is what it is, optional. T10 have never made it secret that 10 cars a month for 6 months will be available. It is possible to buy separate cars too BTW.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Whilst I might agree that Day one DLC isn't a great start PD did the same.
Stealth cars and pre order bonuses on day one too.

Stealth cars are already in the game. Given Forzas customisation options I could have created them myself using the tolols provided. At least Forzas DLC is extra models. Buying RM updates as DLC is a bit rip off, no?

Charging for one off paints a bit over the top too no?

Anyway it is what it is, optional. T10 have never made it secret that 10 cars a month for 6 months will be available. It is possible to buy separate cars too BTW.

True, a point that many of us and myself have tried to make, but many faithfuls of GT5 will disagree. I'm not a FM fan to be honest, it's just common sense really and that is the point you've made. 👍

 

[Spagetti69]

True, a point that many of us and myself have tried to make, but many faithfuls of GT5 will disagree. I'm not a FM fan to be honest, it's just common sense really and that is the point you've made. 👍

Oh common sense is not allowed in this thread eh.

You never would have gotten much extra day one any how. As we all know they were busy modelling what cars and tracks they had up to a satisfactory standard.
Releasing premium cars on a paid for DLC day one ethic would have been seen as a bad move.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Oh common sense is not allowed in this thread eh.

You never would have gotten much extra day one any how. As we all know they were busy modelling what cars and tracks they had up to a satisfactory standard.
Releasing premium cars on a paid for DLC day one ethic would have been seen as a bad move.

Possibly, I think at this point they'll maintain what they will but their main objective now is probably GT6

(sarcastic bit)

But don't feel bad we can always go to the
GT CAFE !!!

 

[Slurm]

I have hardly played GT5 in the last 4-5 months, but the new patch and DLC has been enough to spark a little enthusiasm and coax me back again. I haven't even bought it, but we get to drive the new track.

You can have a synical attitude towards DLC, but it has to be worth their while to make it. In some cases, it's obvious that content has been cut from a game, only to be sold separately at an inflated price. I would begrudge paying any company *COUGH* for content the I could, and should'a received in the hard copy. However, I really believe that PD included all the assets they could on the GT5 disc.

Now we see the start of new content and I am all for it! I for one would like to see PD making tons and tons of money from DLC: They could then employ an army of 3D modellers and turning out new cars every month/week! This would make GT5 a much better game imo, and I have no problem with PD making a little money from me in return.

 

[robbo6]

Is there anyway Pd could do a seasonal which includes Spa, but checks for the track and if it's not unlocked then it uses another track as an alternative? That way, people with the track can enjoy it in seasonals and those who havn't bought the track are still able to do the seasonal albeit on a different track?

 

[crunkmiester]

The only noteworthy feature on the 2.0 update was the "in-game save" on endurance races. Everything else I could have easily done without. Spa is pretty cool too but that has to be purchased separately. So yes, I do have to agree with the OP that the 2.0 update was a bit rather disappointing. Hopefully, Kaz and PD will start development on GT6 and leave this game as is because the fan base of this game has either "stayed loyal to the franchise" or have "abandoned ship" during its first year after released.

 

[ItsHim]

Screw a Spa seasonal. I'd rather like to see the 24 hours in A spec.

 

[Terronium-12]

That's absurd and you have no facts to back that up.

How about the fact it was released that way?

You need a serious dose of reality check if you honestly think PD is comically greedy compared to other developers. That's piratically the most ridiculous thing I've read so far about GT5, and that's saying something considering the vast quantity of misinformation and FUD.

How about paying for paint swatches that are entitled to only single use? I've never seen any other racing game do that. In fact, most other racing games let you paint your car freely with no longstanding circumstances.

When you start discovering certain popular racing games that sell for $60 with 10% of the cars that GT5 has and then have the audacity to sell individual DLC cars for as much as $3 a pop - and release that DLC the week the game came out - thus clearly the content could have easily been included in the game - then come back to me and try to convince me that PD is comically greedy.

And yet none of those developers charge you multiple times for DLC, nor do they pull some lame, completely comical excuse from between their legs only to retort several days later that the thing that couldn't be initiated is now going to be initiated...several weeks after the initial content was released. To my recollection that's something that EA hasn't even pulled.

It's "literally" one of the most ridiculous comments to make, with no facts to back it up, and plenty of evidence to show GT5 is, and has been one of the best bargains in terms of content/cost, and on top of that, they aren't releasing moderately different versions every 1-2 years to fatten their wallets like certain other very well known developers you seem to be completely unaware of.

I'd advise you to read the News page. It's all there in black and white; before and after the complaints.

Not only that, but technically speaking you can't buy the same DLC item from the PSN store. Once you buy it, you get to re-download it as many times as you like, and maybe you aren't aware of it, but unlike on the PS3, on certain other consoles, most DLC is tied to the user that bought it. Perhaps it's all the people abusing Sony's generous option to allow you to add your account to as many as 5 PS3, and allowing every user on all five PS3 to share the same games and DLC.

Finally, if someone wants to "refresh" their DLC cars without having to use credits in the GT Auto shop, they can either delete their game data and the DLC will be re-added to your game save, or you can take your game save over to a friend's house or use a different PS3 if you happen to have another, log into GT5, save your game save, then take the game save back to the other PS3 and voila - all the DLC cars will be brand new.... or just use some credits to rebuild the engine and chassis, as the game was clearly designed to do.

I won't even bother with these two as quite frankly they're contradictory to what's actually happened with the GT5 DLC, and are stupid.

Oh, just for clarification purposes...you should know that when you purchase the DLC for GT5 it doesn't actually appear in your download list. It does, however, appear in the DLC menu within GT5.

 

[another_jakhole]

And yet none of those developers charge you multiple times for DLC, nor do they pull some lame, completely comical excuse from between their legs only to retort several days later that the thing that couldn't be initiated is now going to be initiated...several weeks after the initial content was released. To my recollection that's something that EA hasn't even pulled.

Sony's fault. Kaz fixed it.

http://n4g.com/news/870062/pd-to-bring-an-end-to-gamesharing/pencom
http://n4g.com/news/880068/sony-reducing-psp-and-ps3-download-title-activation-count

Piece it together.

One day later.

Kaz didn't give an excuse. He only said he didn't like the idea of locking the DLC to one account. The day later he said it'll be fixed.

How about paying for paint swatches that are entitled to only single use? I've never seen any other racing game do that. In fact, most other racing games let you paint your car freely with no longstanding circumstances.

Most other racing games? Most other racing games for past gen consoles allowed you to paint your car. GT5 JUST started doing that.

Most other racing games aren't like GT5.

What racing games don't let you choose paint? GT4321

What racing games let you race in a time-changing track(s)? Weather? Have Goats? George Clooney?

The paint chips and suits came free minus one dollar off of the Complete Pack. That's not really greedy. There didn't even have to be a Complete Pack.

How about the fact it was released that way?

Sony, not PD.