GT5 critics converted

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I see so many arguments as to why those who dislike GT5 for one reason or the other do so. They are not car enthusiasts. They focus too much on the gaming aspect (of a game, mind you). They are idiots. They are trolls. They like to annoy people. They are elitist.

At the end of the day however, the simplest explanation is the best: Gran Turismo 5 is a bad game.

There were times when I wouldn't have accepted this statement just like you probably don't right now, so let me tell you this: there will be a day in your life when you start to wake up and see through the pink GT glasses, and once you've woken up completely, you will wonder how you were able to be so blind for so long. I did.
So, everyone who likes GT5 is an idiot, a troll, a elitist and likes to annoy people? Most GT5 players don't even post on here and just like to play the game. And most GT5 players who post on this forum just want everyone who dislikes the game to keep out and let discuss normal things about the game.

I understand you don't like it, but let the people who like it get on with the game and talk to others who like it. Everytime I go to this forum it's just people bashing the game and it's funny how some of those people have never even played it and just hating on it for the sake of it.
How would you like it if you were a hairdresser and everyone said you were good, until one day you were having a stressful day and didnt do a good job on one clients hair, the client started spreading all these nasty things about your business and people were turned off from going there?

Thats like GT5, because you had a bad experience with it you try and ruin others experiences with it.
You can post counter arguments as much as you like but either way you're in the wrong. Any intelligent human would either trade in the game or just deal with the fact that you wasted you're money. Life goes on, there's plenty of things I've bought which I didnt like but I just either forgot about them or selled the items.

Please just stop, it's getting really old now.
 
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look at my signature.

I am now an avid player (the disc hasn't come out of my PS3 ever since I got my hands on it) and run a "sim-like" Super GT series on another forum, haven't had this much fun with a multiplayer racing game since Daytona USA 8 cabinets LAN battles from back in the days.
 
So, everyone who likes GT5 is an idiot, a troll, a elitist and likes to annoy people (? Most GT5 players don't even post on here and just like to play the game. And most GT5 players who post on this forum just want everyone who dislikes the game to keep out and let discuss normal things about the game.
I'm not sure if you got my statement right, because I didn't say, nor intend to imply this. What I was trying to get across is that those who like the game come up with a lot of reasons why those who don't like the game don't like the game. Yet, I see none of them come up with the most simple of reasons: it's a bad game. A lot of people look beyond that and focus on the parts which are good, and that's perfectly fine for me. Nonetheless, I am trying to raise awareness that this doesn't mean it's a good game. I have liked and do like a lot of things in my life of which other people think they are bad. At times I do wish they would like them, but in the end I don't really care, because I like them. Everyone is free to like GT5, but liking it doesn't automatically make it a good product.

I understand you don't like it, but let the people who like it get on with the game and talk to others who like it.
I'm not stopping anyone from doing so.

Everytime I go to this forum it's just people bashing the game and it's funny how some of those people have never even played it and just hating on it for the sake of it.
I'd say those people are a clear minority on this board. Most people I read of actually state that they have been playing the game for quite a while and are beginning to feel bored. So did I.

How would you like it if you were a hairdresser and everyone said you were good, until one day you were having a stressful day and didnt do a good job on one clients hair, the client started spreading all these nasty things about your business and people were turned off from going there?
That happens to a lot of businesses in real life every day. But if you're a good hairdresser, people are going to come to you regardless.

Let's assume I regularly go to that hairdresser and am very satisfied with his work. Then, I meet a friend and he tells me that he went there and had a terrible haircut. How would that stop me from going there again?

Thats like GT5, because you had a bad experience with it you try and ruin others experiences with it.
I'm not. I'm not keeping anyone from buying it, nor playing it. I am simply stating my opinion and experiences in the appropriate threads, on topic, carefully worded and always open for discussion.

You can post counter arguments as much as you like but either way you're in the wrong. Any intelligent human would either trade in the game or just deal with the fact that you wasted you're money. Life goes on, there's plenty of things I've bought which I didnt like but I just either forgot about them or selled the items.
I don't feel like I wasted my money with buying GT5. I have spent more money on worse products in the past. I had the PS3 anyway because of Prologue (which I liked very much), and I would have bought the new tv I got for GT5 either way sooner or later.

I think you're misreading my intentions. I'm not complaining here about "having wasted money", nor am I claiming that "PD owes me". Also, I do not intend to spoil anyone's gaming experience with GT5. I am aiding the discussions about details and experiences of this game. Nothing more, and nothing less. I can not prevent you from reading more into my statements, but with my sincerest apologies in advance, that's what you do.
 
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So, everyone who likes GT5 is an idiot, a troll, a elitist and likes to annoy people? Most GT5 players don't even post on here and just like to play the game. And most GT5 players who post on this forum just want everyone who dislikes the game to keep out and let discuss normal things about the game.

I understand you don't like it, but let the people who like it get on with the game and talk to others who like it. Everytime I go to this forum it's just people bashing the game and it's funny how some of those people have never even played it and just hating on it for the sake of it.
How would you like it if you were a hairdresser and everyone said you were good, until one day you were having a stressful day and didnt do a good job on one clients hair, the client started spreading all these nasty things about your business and people were turned off from going there?

Thats like GT5, because you had a bad experience with it you try and ruin others experiences with it.
You can post counter arguments as much as you like but either way you're in the wrong. Any intelligent human would either trade in the game or just deal with the fact that you wasted you're money. Life goes on, there's plenty of things I've bought which I didnt like but I just either forgot about them or selled the items.

Please just stop, it's getting really old now.

This is quite an amazing post here.

First you completely misinterpret what was said, and then go on to confirm it.

Your hairdresser analogy needs some additional perspective to really fit the bill here:

We have been going to this hairdresser for a long time and yes we personally agree they are the best.
Over the last 5+ years the hairdresser has been planning a new "do" for us and we finally go in to get it.
Well one side is very good, but the other side, your best side BTW, is botched horribly.

You express shock and dismay.
Others who got the same "do" say ; quit your whining, just show the good side.
This is not taken well by you, since that is not your good and favorite side.
Then the hairdresser says : Over the next few months I will nave a little time.
Come by during those times and I will touch it up for you.
Well knowing that this problem will take more than touching up, you are very displeased with this whole situation.
Thats what we have here.

Fret not, those mentioned above are slowly moving on to another hairdresser, and before long GTP will probably become the yes-man love-fest you yearn for.
 
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I got a PS3 solely for GT5, and to be honest have rarely played anything else. I've been playing since Xmas. This is my first Gran Turismo game so can't compare to other releases. (My previous experience with racing games was TOCA on the PS1.)

I love this game. I'm still very much a beginner: A:24, B:16 and feel there's still loads to do, and haven't even tried online racing yet.

It looks stunning. I'm playing on a large 1080p TV so, yes, I wish they'd improve the blocky shadows. But it still looks stunning.

I find there's a few usability issues. Navigating the menus is a chore and time-consuming. But it's not a showstopper and it doesn't detract from my overall enjoyment of the game.

I wish the cars sounded better. I have surround-sound. I'd like more use of the rear speakers, and going through the tunnel and Monaco could sound soooo much better. (Like F1 2010 for example.)

But as for the complaints of the software being buggy; I just don't see any major bugs. And certainly nothing to stop me playing or ruining a race. Yes, there are usability issues and things that could be enhanced; but these aren't bugs. My OH stopped playing Fallout New Vegas because it was crashing every other day. Now that's seriously buggy. GT5 has never crashed on me.

As for complaints that the software should have had all the fixed issues sorted before release: well in that case, it still wouldn't be released, and it never would be released. No piece of complex software would ever be released if it was to be 100% tested and completely bug free.

I find it encouraging to see PD continually addressing issues with GT5 through patches. I have my own opinions on which issues and enhancements should be prioritised, but I'm just one of millions of users. For example, if most users are playing on a medium sized standard-def screen, perhaps blocky-shadows aren't a big deal.

For its price, I think GT5 is good value for money. Some guy representing the UK games industry claims that the average game provides between 20 and 50 hours of game play (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12248010). If this is true, GT5 represents way above average levels of game play.

I think criticism of the game is healthy, and the patches demonstrate some of the message is getting through. But, I do wonder if some people expect a little too much.
 
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Most impressive is some people criticizing, complaining etc etc, but still playing it.

Complains, scolds, but does not drop the bone. LoL
 
I'm slowly warming up to GT5. Credit where it's due, the game is getting better with patches.

That said I'm not really a fan of the game yet, but I did stop attempting to will AIDS upon everybody involved in its creation. I really wish PS3 had more alternatives in this genre though, as I'm firmly locked into logitech/sony this generation.
 
So wrong... Being a car nut is not only about the driving(although it kind of is). You want to enjoy all cars the best way possible, (without the arcady childish stuff like NFS) and GT5 doesn´t deliver like GT4 did. I myself feel desperated of finding a car game that gives me what GT4 and previous GT´s gave me. Probably you´re right on saying that I would not go to previous GT´s, but if I find a serious well made racing game that can deliver the same fun factor that GT4 gave me, I´m willing to move away until PD rethinks its mistake...
I was speaking about the driving not racing, anyway the GT basics remain the same in GT5. I bet you play with no wheel and have not tried to get into the online racing community.


At the end of the day however, the simplest explanation is the best: Gran Turismo 5 is a bad game.
Not as bad if you enjoyed the previous GTs more than any other alternatives.

And yes, is a bad game for gamers because GT never have been a typical videogame but as a game GT5 is much better than any serious sim out there.
 
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Not as bad if you enjoyed the previous GTs more than any other alternatives.
I did. There is no other gaming franchise I have spent so many hours with.

And yes, is a bad game for gamers because GT never have been a typical videogame but as a game GT5 is much better than any serious sim out there.
I wouldn't reduce a gamer to videogamer. The gaming aspect missing in GT5 is that there is little structure in gameplay and especially that there is little encouragement to advance. It's a problem of the game, not of the person sitting in front of it. The person you mean with "gamer" might even like GT5 better than previous titles because you can get through a good part of it in little time.

Saying that GT5 is a better game than the serious sims is a bold claim by the way.
 
LOL, so not too many converted, then...?

I still play GT5 (online only really - sick of 'grinding', and B-Spec when I'm really, really bored) but it's such a disappointment. I get the impression that, left to his own devices, Yamauchi-san would've taken another few years to release this game properly. KopparburgDave's technical observations and the interceptor's points sum my feelings up best here (though I agree with pretty much everyone). To me, the vision and future (coupled with a lengthy development time) of Gran Turismo was supposed to be clear, and lined with quality and innovation. Spurts of both exist in GT5 (which is what keeps me coming back for the online) and patches are helping, but what a mess it is; what a mess indeed...
 
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I did. There is no other gaming franchise I have spent so many hours with.

Saying that GT5 is a better game than the serious sims is a bold claim by the way.
Maybe your tastes have changed? now you moved and enjoy more other games, right?

As bold as saying that GT5 is a bad game. :/

Even with all the bad press it got an average of 8.4, far from being a "bad game". And that was before all the patches, there's more to come...
 
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Maybe your tastes have changed? now you moved and enjoy more other games, right?
Not really. I'd love to play Gran Turismo, but since #5 fell flat for me, what should I do? I've played the previous titles to eternity, and I do (or rather did) enjoy the driving itself in GT5 at times. But I found the rest so off-putting that I shelved it.

I'm playing Test Drive Unlimited 2 now, which is much more fun. However, before you turn this argument: I'm only playing TDU2 because it is a better game, not because my taste in games has changed.

As bold as saying that GT5 is a bad game. :/

Even with all the bad press it got an average of 8.4, far from being a "bad game". And that was before all the patches, there's more to come...
Depends on the point of view I suppose...

GT1: 9.6
GT2: 9.3
GT3: 9.5
GT4: 8.9
Forza 1: 9.2
Forza 2: 9.0
Forza 3: 9.2
NFS Hot Pursuit: 8.9
(Source)

GT5 scoring considerably lower than all of these titles says quite something.
 
Maybe the difference is that I don't do a lot of online racing. But online isn't the be all and end all of a game. There has to be a solid single player experience as well.

IMO iracing is the king of sim racing, which is online racing. There are few games, shooters or racing that stand out as a single player game. Online racing is where the action is.
 
Not really. I'd love to play Gran Turismo, but since #5 fell flat for me, what should I do? I've played the previous titles to eternity, and I do (or rather did) enjoy the driving itself in GT5 at times. But I found the rest so off-putting that I shelved it.

I'm playing Test Drive Unlimited 2 now, which is much more fun. However, before you turn this argument: I'm only playing TDU2 because it is a better game, not because my taste in games has changed.

Depends on the point of view I suppose...

GT1: 9.6
GT2: 9.3
GT3: 9.5
GT4: 8.9
Forza 1: 9.2
Forza 2: 9.0
Forza 3: 9.2
NFS Hot Pursuit: 8.9
(Source)

GT5 scoring considerably lower than all of these titles says quite something.
Well if you think that NFS:HP is a better game and finds TDU2 more fun I think that there's nothing more to discuss. I know that my tastes are different from yours.

From the same source:

GTR 2: 90
Live for Speed: 87 (GR)
GTR: 85
GT Legends: 84
iRacing: 78
rFactor: 78
Race Pro: 72

I see a pattern and a lot of bad games..
 
Well if you think that NFS:HP is a better game
Never said that, I never even played NFS:HP.
and finds TDU2 more fun
I do, mainly because it has a massively sized and quite well balanced offline singleplayer mode. It's the lack of A-Spec events and its unbalanced nature that kills GT5 for me.
I think that there's nothing more to discuss. I know that my tastes are different from yours.
Taste plays little role in this discussion, if any. I'm not saying GT5 is a bad game because I don't like it, I'm saying it because it is actually my opinion. A bad product is a bad product no matter what, whether people like it or not is a completely different matter.
From the same source:

GTR 2: 90
Live for Speed: 87 (GR)
GTR: 85
GT Legends: 84
iRacing: 78
rFactor: 78
Race Pro: 72

I see a pattern and a lot of bad games..
So you're not happy with the source you initially used to demonstrate that GT5 is not as bad as I claim it is?
 
Kazunori Yamauchi is the Peter Molyneux of racing games

Both people have massively grand ideas of what their current/next game is/can be and talk up every feature to the point of impracticality

Fable was a game PM talked about everything you do having consequence but in reality it was difficult as it meant that you could kill any NPC (non-player character) and it couldn't break the overall game ... it lead to weird gameplay and a somewhat underwhelming game.

If Kazunori had just kept the expectations in check we might have been able to more easily accept GT5 for what it is but many of us are judging it on what he proclaimed which coupled with the extended development calendar and delays to get things right meant it could then never live up to that and even then it feels it misses (in certain aspects) more obvious inclusions and balance

I've had some fun with the game, some frustration too and i've (with the help of the seasonals) got to lvl 30 but i'm putting the game on the shelf now and moving on
 
Well if you think that NFS:HP is a better game and finds TDU2 more fun I think that there's nothing more to discuss. I know that my tastes are different from yours.

From the same source:

GTR 2: 90
Live for Speed: 87 (GR)
GTR: 85
GT Legends: 84
iRacing: 78
rFactor: 78
Race Pro: 72

I see a pattern and a lot of bad games..

OMG!! rFactor: 78??? iRacing: 78????????????

That`s really a great source!! :lol:

As much as a game approaches to simulation, the reviewers hates it! LOL

Reviewers must suck at driving :lol:
 
Never said that, I never even played NFS:HP.

So you're not happy with the source you initially used to demonstrate that GT5 is not as bad as I claim it is?
I mentioned the GT5 score as an example of the over negativism towards the game in this forum, you put a list of higher scored games as a proof of how bad GT5 performed, NFS HP was in that list.

I'm very happy with the source, was being sarcastic with the "bad games" quote. Even a 7 does not mean a bad game specially when we are looking at gaming reviews, sim games rarely perform well as classic gaming packages, so is because sim sites have a much different approach in its reviews. For example they would put a much worse score to GT4 than GT5.

See the pattern now? ;)
 
Why should PD work on Car AI when we have online racing? There's never going to be AI that equals racing a human opponent and seeing as I need the money to tune my cars, leave the AI alone. I'd rather PD work on the Community features, which is what I love about GT5. Leaderboards, more options for user created Races and Series, maybe Make offlife A spec races available to play online with the same prizes, Etc. PD needs to get someone from Modnation Racers over to help out with This maybe.
 
I mentioned the GT5 score as an example of the over negativism towards the game in this forum, you put a list of higher scored games as a proof of how bad GT5 performed, NFS HP was in that list.

I'm very happy with the source, was being sarcastic with the "bad games" quote. Even a 7 does not mean a bad game specially when we are looking at gaming reviews, sim games rarely perform well as classic gaming packages, so is because sim sites have a much different approach in its reviews. For example they would put a much worse score to GT4 than GT5.

See the pattern now? ;)
Yeah, I see it. I also think that the casual gamer open for driving and racing games is more tolerant, while the simulation enthusiast is rather picky.

You know, since you brought up the thought that my taste might have moved along, I've been giving this some thought. I've been asking myself what GT5 would have needed to be for me to absorb me like the previous titles did. And my conclusion is, in a way, that I have moved on. Let me explain.

Basically, every main Gran Turismo title has been the same. PD has always polished every new version over the previous one, so naturally, GT5 is the most polished one yet. I've been playing through all of them with great fun. So why not GT5? Well, there is one part in me that tells me that keeping the original formula and just adapting it to the latest platform doesn't cut it anymore. I miss the invention and the advancement of the idea of Gran Turismo. Maybe I'm getting tired of playing through the same old game that just looks and feels like a current title, but basically still is the same as #1.

There certainly is potential for innovation in GT5. Nascar, WRC, Karting and Top Gear alone would make for complete games in the hands of other developers. Only problem is: PD didn't make proper use of any of this. What's that expression: they have bitten off more than they can chew. What's the point of gathering items and squeezing them into a game until it's about to burst of content when you don't put the ideas into practice in the gameplay?

Don't get me wrong, the driving itself is excellent. The physics are very good and the graphics are very good (some minor problems aside). But the driving itself, even if it has always been the strong point of Gran Turismo, is only a part of the whole. I have come across a lot of driving games which looked awesome right until I got in the cockpit. A lot of dazzlers there, all shine but no substance. Gran Turismo has always been different. And oddly, even if they got the driving part right again, the rest of this game lacks somewhat.

You know, in real life I belong to a little team of three, and we make a product of our own, a magazine. We also come up with a lot of ideas for that magazine, but we constantly have to filter for the ones which, even if they would be awesome for the readers as well as us, simply are not feasible with the time, the manpower and the funds we have. We repeatedly tried to pull through such an idea once in a while, but the result never was very satisfying for anyone. The readers argued that there is only a point in tackling such a task when you can do it properly. If the result is half-assed, it's of no use for anyone, so why do it?

This, in my humble opinion, is where PD, especially Kaz, went wrong. They simply tried too much and were bound to fail on many levels. They should have put their experiences with earlier games to use and set themselves realistic and achievable goals before they started working on this huge project. You can't just start somewhere and see where you end up after a while.

Another thing is that GT5 is fixable so easily. I believe that the shadow thing is one task you really need time and manpower for to fix - no discussion there. Same thing for AI. But gameplay? I said this before a while ago in another thread: every frequent player of GT5 could come up with a better A-Spec mode and good use of all the licenses they have within a day or two. There is no technical limitation of hardware or disk space here, A-Spec simply is a question of designing and organizing events. Thus, I'm having a huge problem to understand how they could get this so wrong. Even if they had copied this 1:1 from GT4, it would have been better and also less work.
 
Well if you think that NFS:HP is a better game and finds TDU2 more fun I think that there's nothing more to discuss. I know that my tastes are different from yours.

From the same source:

GTR 2: 90
Live for Speed: 87 (GR)
GTR: 85
GT Legends: 84
iRacing: 78
rFactor: 78
Race Pro: 72

I see a pattern and a lot of bad games..

Crazy, sure the red bull f1 team din't read these scores.
 
It's always safer to user your own judgement when looking at reviews and scores. Know yourself first... for example, just because Transformers made a ton of money and lots of people love it, I think it's a crap movie and refuse to watch it.
 
But Transformers got lousy reviews...

Thing is, people don't CARE much about reviews. Take GT5, for instance. Ask most players here what the best racing game is...

Now look at the reviews.

GT5. The Transformers of racing games!
 
I was a Fan-boy of the GT series and I still remember when I saw the Review from IGN, I was furious. I thought this game was easily a 9.8 or

better unfortunately I lost love for the game and have agreed with most reviewers. I still find the game to be good, but not really enjoyable.

When the thing you enjoyed the most is the licenses, you know their is a problem. I still love the Formula GT Championship.
 
It's always safer to user your own judgement when looking at reviews and scores. Know yourself first... for example, just because Transformers made a ton of money and lots of people love it, I think it's a crap movie and refuse to watch it.

I agree. For example Richard Burns received some terrible review scores but any rally fan knows it is the best rally game ever made.

These sort of games tend to cater for a certain audience so I don't rely on anyone else's review. Ironically, I think it was the attempt to cater for a wider audience that let GT5 down, hence the lower review scores... Go figure
 
I see so many arguments as to why those who dislike GT5 for one reason or the other do so. They are not car enthusiasts. They focus too much on the gaming aspect (of a game, mind you). They are idiots. They are trolls. They like to annoy people. They are elitist.

At the end of the day however, the simplest explanation is the best: Gran Turismo 5 is a bad game.
There were times when I wouldn't have accepted this statement just like you probably don't right now, so let me tell you this: there will be a day in your life when you start to wake up and see through the pink GT glasses, and once you've woken up completely, you will wonder how you were able to be so blind for so long. I did.

Can you elaborate more on that? I'm trying to understand that part....I'm confuse :dunce:
 
But Transformers got lousy reviews...

Thing is, people don't CARE much about reviews. Take GT5, for instance. Ask most players here what the best racing game is...

Now look at the reviews.

GT5. The Transformers of racing games!

Transformers may not have been the best example, but hopefully my point comes across.
 
Exact opposite for me. After watching the Forza game spiral downwards from a acceptable sim with great racing features to a arcade driving casual noob painting game I was geeked to get my hands on GT5. Way I saw it was GT5 was going to deliver on the physics (which it did) and since Kaz was a experienced racer with real seat time in real races I mistakenly thought that GT5 would have more of a racing focus.

Whereas Forza has become a casual noob painting game with little to no focus on racing. It appears that GT is/has become a casual noob pokecar collector game with little to no focus on racing.

The lack of leaderboard support on this game completely blows me away. It's 2011 and evidently Kaz thinks everyone is still plenty happy writing their times down in a little paper notebook. I mean really, no local LB's??? Even Sonic All Star Racing had local leaderboards. I thought only Dan Greenawalt could be that dense. Evidently he's got a brother from another mother in Kaz.
 
I feel as if GT5 have "shrunk" (feels like a smaller world) compared to GT4. Therefore I´m dissappointed. Maybe my expectations were too high, but given the time PD had to finish GT5 I feel the critics have a point :nervous:

An why why WHY are PD putting rally on GT5???? Please drop the rally part for GT6!
 
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