GT5 damage modeling.

Your right, but the space needed still isn't that high, think abuot it GT4 used 1.4 meg's, for roughly 700 cars each of which could have 3 different setup's saved and each cars colout, each part installed and not installed on the car, the mileage, the chassis wear and the game stats ect. Each car file in a GT4 save will likely take about 1k of data, say you add an extra couple of k's for each car to hold the data for the damage, that puts it upto 2.8 meg then you have to remember that the memory cards for the PS3 will be larger than the PS2's, I don't know if we've had any hint or word on this but I'm guessing at least 64 meg, then factor in the fact that all game saves will be larger on the PS3 due to the general increase in data used. So say you double, or for arguments sake trebel the size of the game save to factor that in, your left with an 8.4 meg game save. Not too big by todays standards, certainly not too big for a PS3 game imo.
 
Makes sense to me... Besides, a damaged car would automatically save its condition over the previous save... meaning a battered car will not appear as the mint and damaged version....only the condition it was in when you put it back in your garage...
 
But still...Full on damage modelling would mean different types of damage for different types of materials and different types of carbuilds. For example; A Pagani Zonda will not take damage in the same way a Volvo 240 does, so all cars will need their own model, and their own space. And I don´t think the consumer(s) will accept a cut in the number of cars, so expect close to a 1000 cars for GT5. That will take some serious space on a MC.
One solution could be for PD to include a special MC when you buy GT5.
 
...I don't know... Body and chassis material and rigidity could easily be some other fields in the equation....

I was amazed at what GT4 accomplished on the PS2. I'm expecting nothing less from GT5.
 
Team666
But still...Full on damage modelling would mean different types of damage for different types of materials and different types of carbuilds. For example; A Pagani Zonda will not take damage in the same way a Volvo 240 does, so all cars will need their own model, and their own space. And I don´t think the consumer(s) will accept a cut in the number of cars, so expect close to a 1000 cars for GT5. That will take some serious space on a MC.
One solution could be for PD to include a special MC when you buy GT5.
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This is all just adding variables to each car gathered from tests, no huge problem. They only need one damage modelling engine which takes all these variables into account, and every car will react differently to an impact. The era where damage characteristics required lots of seperate work on each model in the game is over. Of course, modelling each car with full 3d individual parts will require more work, but by far not to the same extent.

And yes, the consumer will accept a cut in the number of cars, even if it mean losing 200 cars. Remember GT3, we lost about double that number. And if it means the quality/quantity ratio is higher, it won't be much of an issue to anyone, but that's a big if. I wouldn't expect 1000 cars if I were you, really. Aim for 400-500. More is possible, less is unlikely, because PD have set a serious standard with GT4, and they can't afford to go under it too much. Having 200 cars, like GT3, has become unacceptable for a GT, and PD knows it.
 
I don't expect more that 500 cars in GT5, I think we'd be lucky to get that many tbh. And Nattefrost your spot on about damage modelling, all you need is a game engine that can handle poly deformantion, apply that to the car models, and create each car model in seperate parts, like the door's, the bonnet, the boot, the front and rear wing's ect. Harder than modelling the car all as one, but not as hard as modelling each car in and animating the different stages of damage like seen in many older games.
 
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! lots of large posts!!! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!! must-not-read-large-posts-do-notREEEADDD!!!

ok i'm done.
 
Damadge Modeling is ABSOLUTLY needed for GT to keep its claim at being a simulator

7 long years of no damadge has jaded many gamers into thinking it isnt needed - this is not Burnout , its a game trying to simulate Real Life
 
You're wrong, more than likely. PD doesn't want to crush its reputation by just throwing out a quickly updated version of a game they know received a lot of criticism. Expect GT5 to be the graphical leap GT3 was in its time.
 
graphics update is what i was meaning when i said a "quick update"

i couldnt care less about the graphics - at 720p GT4 looks great! - what i want is more real handeling , better AI (much better) , more tracks , more in-depth physics , crash DM - all before better graphics *spits*

its going to look fantastic - but i hope its going to be a fully developed sequel instead of an up-dated GT4
 
I didn't say "graphics update", I said "graphical leap". It isn't just a quick update. It means remodelling every car into models where everything is 3D. The tires, the rims, the gaps where different body panels connect,... Then there's the insane job of making all the tracks look almost photorealistic. This is a serious job, not just and update.

You say graphics don't matter to you, but I bet once we've seen a true glimpse of GT5 (and not GT4 running on PS3 with extra effects) it will matter to everyone. Of course, I won't be happy with just improved graphics, but it's the only thing we can be sure of with PD...
 
Well PD have already said the damage will play a part, so it doesn't seem likely that GT5 will be simply GT4 with better graphics.
 
True, it is unlikely, but still, you can't be 100% certain. I'm still anxious to see this damage, untill that, I'll have my doubts abouts it.
 
The fact that it's being considered alone ir proof enough that GT5 is not going to be GT4 with better graphics, if that's all PD wanted from GT5 then they wouldn't have mentioned damage regardless of if it makes it or not. So far we'venot seen any proper GT5 action, we've seen the blue RX-7 and the silverEvo 9 an neither were racing. We should get a proper look at GT5 at the next E3 I think.
 
Hm, there should be a Playstation convention somewhere in February, seems like a perfect time to show some decent GT5 stuff, IF they have anything ready to show.

By the way, I thought I saw the RX7 and Evo racing in the latest movie. I'm pretty sure they were the same models as in the intro, they're the only ones with clear windows. But that's not saying anything, as the physics were still GT4.
 
Possibly, I forgot about the PS convention.

In the latest Vision GT movie, the RX-7 moves into the camera, then as the scene changes to a race track and the camera pan's round, the car model changes into a GT4 model. All the cars in that vid had clear windows, barring the first two cars you see they were all GT4 models.
 
I don't know, it still seems the other don't have clear windows like those two. Are you sure of this? And if so, what makes you so sure? Maybe you spot some differences that I'm missing.
 
I've just watched it again, every car in the vidoe has clear windows, a lot of the scenes either don't give a good view or are darker, but evey car has clear windows. GT4's cars had clear windows, all the models are just GT4 car models.

Take a look here, you can see right through the cars windows, and see the roll cages inside and the track behind the cars.
vision-gt-20060117015741797.jpg
 
That's not exactly what I'd call "clear". The two cars in the opening sequence have much clearer windows, no other car in the clip (or in GT4) has windows as clear as that. Now, if you compare the windows on the Evo from the opening sequence (around 0:23-0:25) to the one driving aroung one of the Italian track at 1:14-1:15, those windows show the same clearness.
 
Apart from the first two, the car models are all GT4 quality models. KY stated, the first two you see are what to expect from GT5's models, the rest of the video is all GT4 quality with better lighting effects. Theres a lot more different about the first two models than all the other's than just the windows, the overall detail levels are miles apart.
 
Nattefrost
You say graphics don't matter to you, but I bet once we've seen a true glimpse of GT5 (and not GT4 running on PS3 with extra effects) it will matter to everyone. Of course, I won't be happy with just improved graphics, but it's the only thing we can be sure of with PD...
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PD have to be one of the best funded racing game makers out there , look at GT4 - you can see the effort put into it with the car models & the tracks . all quality (well ok , some cars have some sketchy texture's but meh - you gotta be really close to make it stand out)

GT5 will undoubtedly look amazing - but graphics dont make the game thrilling , its just eyecandy - gamplay is where its at & GT4 has huge & glaring weaknesses that need greater priority

that being the case of course the graphics are going to be amazing - its what sells moreso than fedelity
 
un_peacekeeper
that's just GT4 pit crew but better textured. doesn't even look good.
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As long as it has good effects right?:dopey:
I think the better textures did some good improvements then:tup: Not everything has to be complicated:)

Edit: Oh well, lol, I think it does look good. Each his taste;)
 
G-T-4-Fan
As long as it has good effects right?:dopey:
I think the better textures did some good improvements then:tup: Not everything has to be complicated:)

Edit: Oh well, lol, I think it does look good. Each his taste;)
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i personally would like to have better physics and gameplay over graphics, but graphics is what sells to 80% of this ignorant world because the back of game cases cannot display gameplay, but only graphics. gameplay needs to be played to be known.
 
un_peacekeeper
i personally would like to have better physics and gameplay over graphics, but graphics is what sells to 80% of this ignorant world because the back of game cases cannot display gameplay, but only graphics. gameplay needs to be played to be known.
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I cant deny that I like reading the back of the games before buying one. I love to read the stuff of wich half isn't true or VERY overdone, it doesn't really bother me I like it:dopey:

Ah well thats just what I do when buying a game, gives me a good feeling about it:tup:
 
Lots of gameplay over graphics gripes, yet GT4 strives harder than any other console quasi-sim to meet both. Will it get physics perfect, probably not, because even as real as physics is in the realworld, things still happen that defy physics. Besides playing from your couch/chair/bed hardly can match physical reality of actually driving. Which means half of the realism will be up to how well they present it in the game, and the other half is how far your mind is willing to suspend disbelief.

Hey L4S, in the GTV video, they have both the Evo9 and Spirit R racing, that is if you have the full length video, which I have. I'm still waiting to catch a glimpse and hear what the damage details are from Kaz and crew, will there be roll overs? will impacts actually follow some type of physics model, will tires rupture, hoses break, will the driver sustain race ending injures(kinda how GT4 had that blurring effect, but more advanced where your reactions become slowed: would work very well in endurance races and force you to pit to change drivers.) I want to know how far they will take it.
 
Yeah, but they arn't the same models as the two in the first clip, same model of car, but they are GT4 standard models not GT5 one's, they arn't even close to the detail the first two are.
 
live4speed
Yeah, but they arn't the same models as the two in the first clip, same model of car, but they are GT4 standard models not GT5 one's, they arn't even close to the detail the first two are.
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No those are the new models, you can see through the windows and everything. What I can gauge from the vid is the detail was either turned down since they were not running optimized code, or they had to dumb down the models since some of the code where the pit crew was cheering the Spirit R on looked like GVSW, but the car looked beyond GT4 models.
 

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