GT5 damage modeling.

[Tenacious D]

*McLaren*, I'm not getting your post at all. Since you can tweak any car beyond reason in any racing game with modifications, I think you're just mouthing off. Honestly, if Gran Turismo is such a POS to you, aren't you in the wrong forums??

And Badsight, yes, I think it's a good idea to consult relatives with actual racing experience. I guess you think asking people with knowledge and stuff is ignorant or something.

Anyway, supper's over, back to racing.

 

[Dave A]

I disagree with your assertion that they need a variety of tracks. The Ring is the variety. And saying "it's not hard to do, to tweak the in game car so it'll get similar lap times on a certain track..." Uhm... this sounds like the definition of accuracy. Tweaking until you get a certain similarity of performance.

No it doesn't, I don't think you get my point. Two cars can race at the ring, both can be setup very differently and feel very different to drive, let's call them car A and car B, car A is faster on the faster sections, but car B makes up for that round all the corners, in the end they both get similar lap times. If PD make make car A but give it the performance of car B then you still get that similar lap time, yet they've got it very wrong. Say during testing the game they put in all the figures but when testing at the ring they realise they made the ring a little smaller than it really is, and since that's the track most people will test on they lower the cars acceleration to compensate, that get's a similar to real lap time but it's not accurate. Say they put all the figures in but GT4's physics engine doesn't translate them to provde a car that can do that lap time, so PD increase the cars acceleration, that's wrong but it can get a similar lap time. I could go on giving examples so you can see the point, a close to real lap means bugger all to put it politely. Actually thats not true, the only thing it PROVE'S is that that car is setup in the game to provide a close to real lap time at that track. Take note, I'm not saying GT4 is bad and has it all wrong, I'm just pointing out that basin a claim that it is all great on that statemnt about the ring time is not a solid base for an argument. I agree that GT4 is very good, but reffer back to my last post for where I think it fails.

 

[McLaren]

*McLaren*, I'm not getting your post at all. Since you can tweak any car beyond reason in any racing game with modifications, I think you're just mouthing off. Honestly, if Gran Turismo is such a POS to you, aren't you in the wrong forums??

And Badsight, yes, I think it's a good idea to consult relatives with actual racing experience. I guess you think asking people with knowledge and stuff is ignorant or something.

Anyway, supper's over, back to racing.

What I'm saying is GT4's tweaking is not very accurate either.
So he tweaked a car to get the same lap time.
Our members here can do the same and beat him most likely.

But in GTR's, you can't. If you tweak it to the same setup, chances are you'll be 7-10 seconds behind the real driver.
Another example of how much better GTR is.

BTW, I hardly go in the GT4 forums anymore anyways.
I like GT4 yes, but when people think it's very accurate, they're very wrong.

 

[Dave A]

With regards to all the road cars I've driven in real life that are in GT4, with the right tyre's they arn't far off, but like I said, the power delivery still isn't there. As for the race cars, it's a combination of over grippy racing tyre's (that's all the compounds) and the lack of full power delivery that ruin the race cars, you can drive a hell of a lot faster in thoes than in real life.

 

[McLaren]

With regards to all the road cars I've driven in real life that are in GT4, with the right tyre's they arn't far off, but like I said, the power delivery still isn't there. As for the race cars, it's a combination of over grippy racing tyre's (that's all the compounds) and the lack of full power delivery that ruin the race cars, you can drive a hell of a lot faster in thoes than in real life.

Exactly. GT4 lacks the realism of power and physics for the race cars.

NO way in hell, could the WRS members drive that fast in GTRs, LMPs, etc. in real life nor could anyone here probably get them around bends at 90Mph.

 

[Keef]

Tenacious, I didn't really understand your point of view on Colin Mcrae Rally. Do you like it or not? I see that you do like GT4's physics. I do, too. I like to drive spirited, with performance in mind. I experiment every now and then. I have never driven a high performance car, though I have driven about 10 different cars in the past 2 years. I am a fan of many car magazines, that's as close as I can afford to be to many sports cars, or epensive cars in general. I have spoken to the owner of and enjoyed the driver's seat of a Saleen S7 before, though.
Anyway, I get the idea about many driving concepts that I read about in my magazines. I can see what they're talking about when I play GT4. I love the way trottle modulations affect the cars in GT4, though I find drifting extremely difficult, and I'm positive it is much more difficult in the game than in real life. Have you ever noticed that you can't do donuts? I know drifting and donuts aren't a standard part of racing, and if you raced normally you wouldn't even encounter these situations anyway, but cars can drift and do donuts in real life, so they should do it in the game. GT4 has more good than bad, but it does have it's share of bad.
Now, I've never played TOCA or this GTR you speak of, but I have played Colin McRae Rally 3, about 2 years ago, and I absolutley fell in love. The sense of actually being in the car, enhanced by the in car view, was amazing. The way the car steered and slammed into potholes, making a big "thud" noise, was just so realistic. It took me no time at all to get the feel for the game's physics because it was just like a real car. I could sense what the car was doing better than GT4, though I can sense the car's movements very well in GT4. GT4 is good, but Colin McRae was better. The engine was modeled in 3D, it could have been better, but it was there. In the mid-engined cars you could see the engine trembling and shaking at idle, jerking as you tap the trottle beacause of the torque, they blew smoke every now and then, they had better backfires than GT4. I know CMR3 is a much more focused game, only on rally, than GT4, GT could be better.
I think the PS3 will have the capacity to run all the graphics and necessary memory and all that computer stuff, I just hope they don't skimp on the physics. It takes a long time to program, I know, so they need to work quickly but well.

 

[Tenacious D]

I guess I need to make this in bold. It's Richard Burns Rally I was speaking of, which I mistakenly called Colin McRae. I believe I played Colin McRae Rally and liked it too, but I was so horrified over the difficulty my relative was having with Richard Burns that I just watched him play. Man, what an unforgiving game. He doesn't play it because he doesn't have gobs of time to blow just getting used to a game's physics with a family and his car hobby and all.

*McLaren*, I've known a rich snob or two, and you match the profile. Although for all I know, you could be a typical poser 14 year old because you also have all the manners of an IRC smacktard. Anyway, enjoy your expensive toys and drop us some pics from Monaco this year.

And live4speed... I can't figure out whether you're speaking purely hypothetically or not, so... okay, whatever you said. But if you're saying that you took dissimilar cars, set them up radically differently and came up with similar lap times around the Ring, then you'll have to share a report with the class.

Anyway, since I highly doubt that anyone has a PC remotely as powerful as the XBox 360 or forthcoming PS3, I'm pretty sure that when GT5 comes out, or even GT5 Prologue, that you'll be able to do donuts and drift. That is one thing that doesn't work well on GT, partly because of the lack of a clutch, and partly because there is a processor budget they had to work with, and frankly I think drifting is boring anyway. However with the new hardware, drifters should be in heaven. Maybe you'll be able to set up the DF Pro with a clutch button. I hope that they don't force us to buy yet ANOTHER steering controller because I'm tired of buying peripherals. I can't see them doing this anyway. There would be riots.

Damage should be spectacular. I think if flame effects can be modelled and damage on a PC racer, then surely the even more powerful PS3 should be up to the challenge. But like I said before, I don't buy racing games so I can crash. I want a race simulation, not a crash tester. I can see the poles when GT5 comes out.

How many of you turn car damage off?

Yes: 67%
No: 9%
Medium settings: 21%
What are you talking about??: 3%

 

[un_peacekeeper]

I have to wonder about some of you "experts." Such as...

- How many of you actually own a car. What kind of car? How high a performance?

- How many of you have even driven a car.

- How many of you have actually raced a car, if only to have driven it quite fast. And not just straight line.

- And best of all, how many of you have actually driven a high performance car capable of competing in an enthusiast race competition.

I have a feeling that the number of even car owners isn't all that high.

Never said I am an expert, I just provided some ideas of some possible damage features that could be included in GT5.

As to your question...

- How many of you actually own a car. What kind of car? How high a performance?

Audi A4 2.0T Quattro​

- How many of you have even driven a car?

Countless cars driven, but those that I have considerably amount of time would be​

• Audi A4 1.8T Quattro (father's)
• Audi A4 2.0T Quattro (current)
• Honda Civic (first car)
• Mercedes SLK350 (father's)
• Toyota Sienna (mother's)
• Volkswagen Jetta 4Motion (traded in)

- How many of you have actually raced a car, if only to have driven it quite fast. And not just straight line.

To be honest, I don't race my cars, haven't done it before. Most I do is exceed the speed limit by around 2 to 2.5 times.​

- And best of all, how many of you have actually driven a high performance car capable of competing in an enthusiast race competition.

I don't know what you would call an enthusiast race competition, but I have driven some somewhat high performance cars (Porsche Carrera, Mercedes SLK55AMG, Audi S4, Aston Martin DB9), but not enough to give any information. The cars which I have driven for extended periods of time would be the ones above.​

 

[Dave A]

And live4speed... I can't figure out whether you're speaking purely hypothetically or not, so... okay, whatever you said. But if you're saying that you took dissimilar cars, set them up radically differently and came up with similar lap times around the Ring, then you'll have to share a report with the class.

I'm speaking hypothetically, I'm not saying that's how it is in GT4, just that that line of argument doesn't actually prove anything. Say you have the Ford GT and the BMW M5, in real life both car's have run the ring in 7'52, both cars are very different to drive.

If PD gave the M5 the physics of the Ford GT, the game wouldn't be realistic but the Ring time's would be consistent with the real life one for that car, you see what I'm getting at. Just because lap times at one track in a couple of car's have so far proven to be close to real doesn't meran the car's drive like they really should ect. Agian I think with regards to the road cars in GT4 PD have done a fantastic job, when I fit N2's on a car I've actually driven in real life, it handles convincingly in comparison to any other sim's with real road car's out there.

 

[Tenacious D]

un_peace, you did more than touch those cars? And your dad owns a Benz? Dang guy. I know some people bag on Mercedes-Benz but I'm not one of them. And, I'd point out that exceeding the speed limit by 2.5 times could be well over 160kph. Are you toying with me?

And live4speed... I reread your post above, and that's a bunch of VERY idle speculation you're slinging around. Is there any particular reason you'd want to make unwarranted remarks like that?

 

[Dave A]

Unwarranted, please point out where I'm speculating and what part of my post's are unwarranted.

 

[Tenacious D]

Look, l4s, you make warranted remarks based on information that either you are intimately familiar with or are founded on some reputable authority. Such as "I have personally taken a Touring Car around Nurburgring and my experience was entirely unlike the same car in GT4." Or "Colin McRae was disgusted with the performance of the Ford rally cars saying they were completely wrong."

Saying things off the top of your head that the scales of GT4 could be wildly off are just talking out of your hat. If what you said in any of your points above were true, they would be glaringly obvious and the net would be rife with quotes from people of all aspects of auto sports saying such things. But about all I ever see are remarks from people who say "This game is all wrong because my realistic game is completely different."

If the road cars in Gran Turismo are so accurate, and none of us have any hands on experience with anything much more powerful than a serious sports car, except for *McLaren* who owns Microsoft or something, then all that we're left with is a judgement call. Well, and this: "All these games have a great fairly authentic driving experience. But I prefer mine over yours."

I know that there are some things in Gran Turismo which are patently absurd, like the ever popular oil change performance boost. It's goofy and unrealistic. I still do it with every car I buy, why not. Winning fabulously expensive race cars along with a nice purse? Yes, it's silly, but it gives you a nice leg up into other regions of the game. I'd rather get a huge purse and go shopping myself, but I won't grouch about it or call Gran Turismo ignorant for including such odd quirks.

The inability to do a proper burnout or do a donut, or drift? Well, that's not what racing is all about anyway. Yes, it's undoubtedly a sign of a physics engine which is tailored for direct, traditional racing so the system can also show such incredible backgrounds. And frankly I think that's the ideal balance.

Do I grouch about the graphics in GTR? A little. but I admit that it's a minor niggle. However in this day and age it is a bit odd that their look lags so far behind the wimpy Playstation.

Anyway, all this to say that's awesome that you adore GTR. I think it's a fabulous game. When I finish off GT4, assuming the PS3 isn't here with another much bigger installment of Gran Turismo, I'll give it another shot. But honestly, with all the variety which Gran Turismo offers, I get really tired of going blisteringly fast all the time, and if every other race is ruined because some idiot bot made me crash, I'm just as likely to toss it out the window.

 

[Dave A]

My god man, what are you on about. I strongly suggest you re-read my posts again, I'm probably the cloest to actually agreeing with you on here.

Comments like this:

I'm speaking hypothetically, I'm not saying that's how it is in GT4, just that that line of argument doesn't actually prove anything.

need to be read. I can understand you not getting my point if you missed that line but even still, the posts was followed up with

I think with regards to the road cars in GT4 PD have done a fantastic job, when I fit N2's on a car I've actually driven in real life, it handles convincingly in comparison to any other sim's with real road car's out there.

so you tell me, where am I making uwarranted remarks.

 

[Tenacious D]

If PD make make car A but give it the performance of car B then you still get that similar lap time, yet they've got it very wrong. Say during testing the game they put in all the figures but when testing at the ring they realise they made the ring a little smaller than it really is, and since that's the track most people will test on they lower the cars acceleration to compensate, that get's a similar to real lap time but it's not accurate. Say they put all the figures in but GT4's physics engine doesn't translate them to provde a car that can do that lap time, so PD increase the cars acceleration, that's wrong but it can get a similar lap time.

Well, that. There is in fact one car that Polyphony has the wrong performance data for. I think they admitted it but I'm not sure. But going on wildly about how "see, they could have done this for a number of cars, and the scale of the Ring itself could be off" is just weird.

Anyway, you have a good day, I have to take a nap.

 

[Dave A]

And once again, re-read my post, I never said that's how it was in GT4 hence

I'm speaking hypothetically, I'm not saying that's how it is in GT4, just that that line of argument doesn't actually prove anything.

I was poitning out, as I said many times, that saying GT4 has real physics for each car because the cars run similar to real times at the ring proves nothing, it's not a solid argument because in a previous post you said

I disagree with your assertion that they need a variety of tracks. The Ring is the variety. And saying "it's not hard to do, to tweak the in game car so it'll get similar lap times on a certain track..." Uhm... this sounds like the definition of accuracy. Tweaking until you get a certain similarity of performance.

Which is wrong, you can get two similar times with two very different cars like the M5 and Ford GT example I gave. You can compensate for a car not being as fast as it rewall is by improving the wrong area's of that cars performance ect, if you don't understand what I'm saying just say so, I can try to re-word it.

 

[McLaren]

*McLaren*, I've known a rich snob or two, and you match the profile. Although for all I know, you could be a typical poser 14 year old because you also have all the manners of an IRC smacktard. Anyway, enjoy your expensive toys and drop us some pics from Monaco this year.

Yes, I'm a rich snob.
Espcially at the fact I do happen to donate money when it's needed.

And I'm also happy everyone on this site sterotypes me as a rich snob because I have wealthy family members.
I've driven the cars I love because I make friends with those who own, sell, and produce them.

But please explain to me I'm a rich snob because I own a GTO and a M3 when there are people on this site who own so much better than me? OMGZ, I had an NSX. I'm a rich mother ****ing snob. Even though I realized I had to sell it to upkeep my personal life.

Am I a snob because I just said I've driven sports cars?
Am I a snob because I know 1 game's physics lack that of another, a subject that has nothing to do with money.
Am I a snob, or is someone just a little angry at the fact that I have a great life?

I don't care if I have a billion dollars and I don't care if my realitives are rich. 80% of them have small relations with me anyways.

So, please tell me how I'm a rich snob cause I'd like to know how you so much about how I spend my money.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Does racing a Pinto around a 1/4 mile track count? If it does, then the comment about being a snob would definitely be unwarranted.

Edit: Yes I am kidding. The comment about being a snob was a bit over the top. Let's get back to the subject and not turn this into something personal please.

 

[Master_Yoda]

Yes, I'm a rich snob.
Espcially at the fact I do happen to donate money when it's needed.

And I'm also happy everyone on this site sterotypes me as a rich snob because I have wealthy family members.
I've driven the cars I love because I make friends with those who own, sell, and produce them.

But please explain to me I'm a rich snob because I own a GTO and a M3 when there are people on this site who own so much better than me? OMGZ, I had an NSX. I'm a rich mother ****ing snob. Even though I realized I had to sell it to upkeep my personal life.

Am I a snob because I just said I've driven sports cars?
Am I a snob because I know 1 game's physics lack that of another, a subject that has nothing to do with money.
Am I a snob, or is someone just a little angry at the fact that I have a great life?

I don't care if I have a billion dollars and I don't care if my realitives are rich. 80% of them have small relations with me anyways.

So, please tell me how I'm a rich snob cause I'd like to know how you so much about how I spend my money.

Agreed, just because he has weathy family doesnt mean hes a rich snob, and so what if he has 2 really nice cars, they worked for it in some way havnt they?if they have the deserve it, my uncle used to have a software company and sold it when stocks were high, now he has a son that works for quicksilver, and has a house on the hills in Honolulu, and a house in Laguna Beach, but he was poor, and couldnt afford dinner every night when he was a kid. And lived in a poor neghborhood for 23 years of his life, but he tried hard. Hes one of the smartest and nicest people i have ever met, (even though you dont see me driving in a GTO or a M3) some people come out lucky and can't you just be happy for those people, and like McLaren said if he donated money he obously not that much of a snob.

and Tenacious D be happy you live in here in the USA cause in other country you would be calling someone like you a rich snob. Now lets be happy for what we got in a time of world terror, and lets go back on topic, AND this is saposed to be about GT5 damage modeling, and not McLaren or anyone elese, or i will re-loacate this thread to a different place, and call it McLarens Biography.



Peace out, Yoda

 

[un_peacekeeper]

un_peace, you did more than touch those cars? And your dad owns a Benz? Dang guy. I know some people bag on Mercedes-Benz but I'm not one of them. And, I'd point out that exceeding the speed limit by 2.5 times could be well over 160kph. Are you toying with me?

And live4speed... I reread your post above, and that's a bunch of VERY idle speculation you're slinging around. Is there any particular reason you'd want to make unwarranted remarks like that?

If i put down cars I just merely touch, it would be hell of a lot longer.

Sorry for the confusion. Most parts of road here is 50km/h, so 2.5 should be 125km/h, I am not that insane. lol. but I take corners slowly, afterall, it is a city. don't want to die yet. But school zones are 30km/h, so it would be like 3 times, but that's so rare that I didn't even put it in.

 

[Badsight]

Anyway, all this to say that's awesome that you adore GTR. I think it's a fabulous game. When I finish off GT4, assuming the PS3 isn't here with another much bigger installment of Gran Turismo, I'll give it another shot. But honestly, with all the variety which Gran Turismo offers, I get really tired of going blisteringly fast all the time, and if every other race is ruined because some idiot bot made me crash, I'm just as likely to toss it out the window.

wait , are you talking about GT4 here ? because GT4 certinaly has idiot bots that just ram you all the time - on the other hand GTR has awesome AI , could be better but GT4's AI is nowhere near as good

if you knew anything about AI you would realise just how much of the CPU's time they take - because running AI with high ability means HUGE levels of programming - some of the worlds most brilliant computer scientists are involved with AI research & they will be the first to tell you there is no such thing - all we have is pre-programmed "intelligence"

 

[Badsight]

The inability to do a proper burnout or do a donut, or drift? Well, that's not what racing is all about anyway. Yes, it's undoubtedly a sign of a physics engine which is tailored for direct, traditional racing . . . . . . . , I get really tired of going blisteringly fast all the time, and if every other race is ruined because some idiot bot made me crash, I'm just as likely to toss it out the window.

so which is it ?

you want physics working only when the car is at speed . . . .

or you want detailed physics that replicate how a car operates ?

you dislike stupid AI , yet its the GTR game with the detailed driving physics & advanced racing AI that you want to throw away ?

i totally believe your a fanboy - all myself & others are trying to show is that GT4 is a simlified racing game & there is another game that is actually racing simulations pinnacle that GT should be trying to replicate

 

[Tenacious D]

McLaren: I called you a rich snob because you had to throw your ego around in a way that a 14 year old crack dealer would. I don't detest the rich, just people who are bloody full of themselves. I give to charity too, and I can't afford one twentieth of the cars you own. So flame on if you wish, just don't expect me to be impressed by your small minded rants.

Badsight: when I wreck in GT4, I don't have the race finished every time. And if you think I'm a fanboy of Gran Turismo, so be it. Evidently you get your jollies out of mocking people, lol. Oh, and lrn 2 spel.

 

[Badsight]

Badsight: when I wreck in GT4, I don't have the race finished every time. And if you think I'm a fanboy of Gran Turismo, so be it. Evidently you get your jollies out of mocking people, lol. Oh, and lrn 2 spel.

sorry , but is that it ? you cant stand driving realistically & want to bounce off AI & walls without damadge ?

i mean you dont have anything to back up your claims of good AI in GT4 & bad AI in GTR ? , come on - either your a fanboy or you dont know what your talking about

go do a full GT2 class race in GTR with maxxed AI & try & come back here with your unbelieveable claims - $50 they leave you & your poorly set car wrecked in the dust


seriously your a riot , you backtrack in twice in one post - GTR is bad for physics but GT4 is good even tho it poorly simulates engine power & low speed handeling

GTR high speed Racing all the time is boring but GT4 with its "physics-at-speed-only" is good ?!?!?! i mean wtf are you on about - another $50 says even you dont know

 

[Tenacious D]

Dude, you really have trouble paying attention and comprehending what you're reading. ADD?

I've said on more than one occasion, and at LEAST once in this thread, that GTR is a fabulous game. I've NEVER said that GTR is boring. I've NEVER said that GTR has lousy physics. Like you GTR fanboys to about Gran Turismo. I HAVE said that I don't relish the idea that a WRECKED car means RACE OVER. Is this plain enough for you, or do you only speak l33t?

Anyway, I don't want to upset a fanboy like you so I'll just be quiet about your plastic idol from here on out. Oh, and here's $50, just so you'll hush up.

 

[McLaren]

McLaren: I called you a rich snob because you had to throw your ego around in a way that a 14 year old crack dealer would. I don't detest the rich, just people who are bloody full of themselves. I give to charity too, and I can't afford one twentieth of the cars you own. So flame on if you wish, just don't expect me to be impressed by your small minded rants.

Hmm....someone seems a little angry.

You asked these simple questions.

"- How many of you actually own a car. What kind of car? How high a performance?

- How many of you have even driven a car.

- How many of you have actually raced a car, if only to have driven it quite fast. And not just straight line.

- And best of all, how many of you have actually driven a high performance car capable of competing in an enthusiast race competition."

I answered them and to get a "you're a rich snob" in my face.

Shut up. You think you know all about my life, but you don't.
You can classify me if you want for throwing my ego around when I did not unless explaining how GTR is better in physics is that.

Don't ask people dumbass questions if you're just going to use their answers to classify them.

 

[McLaren]

I've said on more than one occasion, and at LEAST once in this thread, that GTR is a fabulous game. I've NEVER said that GTR is boring. I've NEVER said that GTR has lousy physics. Like you GTR fanboys to about Gran Turismo. I HAVE said that I don't relish the idea that a WRECKED car means RACE OVER. Is this plain enough for you, or do you only speak l33t?

Well, guess what. If PD wants GT4 to be the Real Driving Simulator, it's gonna need more realism.
You can wreak in GTR and still keep going.
If you wreak in GT5, you should either be totalled or damaged to the point your performance is effected which is exactly how GTR runs.

 

[Dave A]

GTR has the damage customisable so ou can set it so that a shunt the puts you into a wall doesn't end your race by toughening up your car. The bottom line is, GT4's physics are very good, GT4's lick tyre properties are bollocks, and for some reason none of the cars can put their full power down. Straight away I've just pointed out area's GT4 fails that GTR doesn't. Then you have damamge, all of a sudden GTR win's again, it's more eralistic. Which game you prefer is down to you Tenacious D, but don't start saying your all up for realism and GT4 is more realistic but then shrug off it's lack of power deliver, it's over grippy tyre's, it's uncontrollable ABS which I forgot to mention the other day and the lack of damage, which I will not hold against GT4 since it's only on the PS2.

 

[Tenacious D]

No, McLaren, you did not "answer" my questions, you had to be a snot rag about everything, because you and many other GTR zealots wet your pants if we don't fall all over ourselves praising your holy relic. You're a very ill mannered, small minded prima donna in the vein of Bobby Knight. If you have a wife, kids or employees, they have my sympathy.

Oh, and if I "wreak" in GT5 and total my car, so be it. But I'm not going to be a turd and invade the GTR threads if GT5 is as good as any PC racer and gloat like you do.

You know, your time would be better spent lobbying the mods to get a forum thread for your little god game instead of infesting threads devoted to a game you can barely tolerate. And I'm sure you missed me saying that GTR is indeed an excellent PC racer, so could stand to have one since GTR2 is forthcoming.

Anyway, you and OJ have a nice life.

 

[Dave A]

Well you know what, people like me and cLaren come in here because we like GT and we understand the potential of the series, jsut because we think another game is better does not make him or me a GT hater, no-one is talking any crap about GT4 saying it's rubbish. All McLaren has done is said he prefer's GTR and that GTR is more realistic, the first comment is personal preferrence and the latter comment is true. If you translate that into I hate GT4, GT4 sucks, let's all bash GT4 then that's your own problem.

Get the idea out of your head that people like McLaren come here to ***** on GT4 when as far as I'm aware he's not once said GT4 is rubbish or anything like that. He's said the AI is crap which it is, and that the physics arn't as good as GT4's, he hasn't said the physics are crap, just not as good. So yeah, he must hate GT4 . No-one's bashing you for liking GT4 more either, yet your bashing him for liking GTR, he's had a go at your reasoning, but not for actuallly liking GT4 more. I think you should take the same approach and not be so defensive, look at his reasoning, why he said what he said and point out where you dissagree, don't take offence because he's attacked your reasoning, either suck it up and say ok but I still prefer GT4 as a game because from what I gater it's pretty clear you do, which is fine. Or point out why your reasoning is not flawed if he's missed something.

 

[McLaren]

No, McLaren, you did not "answer" my questions, you had to be a snot rag about everything.
Oh, and if I "wreak" in GT5 and total my car, so be it. But I'm not going to be a turd and invade the GTR threads if GT5 is as good as any PC racer and gloat like you do.

~Uh yes actually. I own a GTO and a M3.
I've owned faster before.

~Again yes.

~Again, yes. I have raced my old Acura at Laguna Seca in the past.

~For the last part, yes. Plenty of times. I've driven Lamborghinis, Ferraris, high-powered Mercedes and BMWs, and more of that area.

Please point out where I was a rich snob in that.
You're trying to use the money I have as another tactic to put me "down" because you know I'm right in every way GTR's physics are better.

I like GT4, of course. I like it for PhotoMode, collecting cars, diversity of courses and options. That's what makes it a more exciting game than GTR, BUT I'm telling you GT4's physics is crap. The AI is crap.

GTR accels in it's physics department and that's why it's a lovely game. It simulate's real life so well. GT4 has all it's cars, tracks, and options to make up for its crappy AI and satisfied-like physics.

So quit with your rich snob comments because I not once bragged about the cars I've driven. I did answer your questions.

- How many of you actually own a car. What kind of car? How high a performance?

Uh yes actually. I own a GTO and a M3.
I've owned faster before.

My last comment is barely snob appeal though you'll say so anyways.

How many of you have even driven a car.

Again yes.

How many of you have actually raced a car, if only to have driven it quite fast. And not just straight line.

Again, yes. I have raced my old Acura at Laguna Seca in the past.

And best of all, how many of you have actually driven a high performance car capable of competing in an enthusiast race competition.

Now, before I post my response, look at your's. You were asking for my answer when you posted "And Best of All."

For the last part, yes. Plenty of times. I've driven Lamborghinis, Ferraris, high-powered Mercedes and BMWs, and more of that area.

Here's where you judge me as a rich snob though you were the one you thought you weren't going to get a serious response with your "Best of all" comment.

And here's where I even expained to you why I was able to.

I've driven the cars I love because I make friends with those who own, sell, and produce them.

Perhaps it is you who should read.