GT5 dead or dying?

  • Thread starter Thread starter iridegravity
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Dying/almost dead for me, so bored with it right now.
 
iridegravity
This kind of explains it for me. exactly whats wrong with this game. Unless your want to cultivate your own clique. It's random lobbies? I am not looking for a scene or control. I want competition. I don't want to work at it like a career networking experiment. i just want to get in, get out and get some competition on.
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Maybe you should start a thread for a race series that doesn't count points, but is just a massive group of clean racers who want competition. When someone opens a room for the league they can post it in the thread and others will join. It just takes simple initiative, no networking, and no group of friends. Try it. Its quite fun actually
 
The DLC hit 1,000,000 downloads, I'm sure there are around 3 to 5 million players..
 
Jai
The DLC hit 1,000,000 downloads, I'm sure there are around 3 to 5 million players..
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Great point right there. That number is very impressive for a game that is over a year old. Your number for active players could be very accurate.

If GT5 seems slow to some, it should be expected. Look at all the big games that just came out.
 
Not even remotely close to dying for me. I try to play 3-4 nights a week, sometimes more when the lady works night shifts at the hospital. I have met a great group of racers online, all of which came from rooms titled "CLEAN SHUFFLE/SPEC" Those are the rooms you want to play in, clean close races over and over and over again. I have about 20-30 replays saved just from amazing 1,2,3 - 4,5,6 finishes all within .01x-.08x time frame of each other... i can go on any time of the day and find clean racers, i dont know what the problem is for some of you guys.

I have discovered that the best racing experiences online are from shuffle/spec races, all with random PP specs, comfort softs- sports hards only, no aids, voting for tracks at the end of each race and a 3 minute interval between racing. Its what GT5 is all about, random cars, fast paced, no race is ever the same that way. It never gets boring or repetitive

My psn name is Shelbyz4u2nv, drop me a line if you want some GREAT shuffle/spec races
 
Now that its been a year and GT5's price has dropped about $20.00. I'll bet there are going to be alot of GT5 games under the Christmas Tree this year. That will bring in more new players to the game and kind of give it a new boost of GT5 fans. As far as the online play dying I don't think so. The ones that left were the ones that were not true GT5 fans anyway. I find online rooms to have much better drivers now. And for the noobs that just wanted to go in a room and think they were the best driver on the planet only to take every one out in the first turn those are the ones I see less of. Well they found out they don't stand a chance at winning in a room with good skilled drivers, that took the time to learn the skill to drive and race in a online room correctly. I am glad they are the ones that got bored and moved on to other games.

Live on GT5 live on.
 
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ajns73
I can't speak to the online experience, as it holds no allure for me. I would disagree with your thoughts on DLC though. You really should take a 15 minute trip to the marketplace to see how many collectors/traders are active. DLC, OCD switches, or anything that adds to what can be collected/traded will always keep that part of things going. Throw in DLC tracks, and you will put in the more driving driven folks. You might also get a slight uptick in online play as well.
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I earned everything I wanted more or less playing through A Spec so trading holds no allure for me. It's cool though as a resource. I know I was frustrated early in the game trying to find cars.
 
EAO-HarleyMan
Now that its been a year and GT5's price has dropped about $20.00. I'll bet there are going to be alot of GT5 games under the Christmas Tree this year. That will bring in more new players to the game and kind of give it a new boost of GT5 fans. As far as the online play dying I don't think so. The ones that left were the ones that were not true GT5 fans anyway. I find online rooms to have much better drivers now. And for the noobs that just wanted to go in a room and think they were the best driver on the planet only to take every one out in the first turn. Well they found out they don't stand a chance at winning in a room with good skilled drivers, that took the time to learn the skill to drive and race in a online room correctly. I am glad they are the ones that got bored and moved on to other games.

Live on GT5 live on.
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I agree the racing has been better lately on GT5. I've been seeing the familiar names a lot more as well.
 
GT5 is no where close to dying. It has just dropped its price and Christmas is two weeks away. A bunch of new people will be up and driving soon. There are definitely fewer players out there compared to this time last year, but the online activity is ripe with action if you have a good network of friends in the game.
 
I don't think there are fewer players, I think more players are running the seasonals because they pay so well. And more drivers are joining clubs because the open lobbies are unbearable.
 
iridegravity
Any one know how many people are playing GT5 online? I know Modern Warfare has a counter and tells you. Just curious what kind of numbers GT5 is drawing since I am finding it increasingly difficult to find lobbies.
Shuffle is dead it seems and normal racing is too time consuming.
This game needs a refresh now, before it dies.
Match making Anyone?
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Certainly not dying here in the UK, plenty of rooms and shuffle racing every day.
 
Psycho Tuber
I don't think there are fewer players, I think more players are running the seasonals because they pay so well. And more drivers are joining clubs because the open lobbies are unbearable.
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I must have lucked out last night. I joined an open lobby with 14 other players and had some of the best racing I've had in months. It was clean, competitive, lag-free, and the host kept the races coming quick with just enough time in between races to do some setup changes too. :)
 
Psycho Tuber
I don't think there are fewer players, I think more players are running the seasonals because they pay so well. And more drivers are joining clubs because the open lobbies are unbearable.
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^ This.
People looking for good clean online racing usually join clubs.
There are also plenty of people that don't even bother with online pubblic lobbies when they can have fun with the new AI in arcade mode, and then greanding seasonal or bspec for credits.

Pubblic lobbies rules and penalites need an overhaul that's for sure. What about separating cutting corner penalty from crash penalty. And another penalty if you run reverse, even an automatic kick if you drive reverse more than 10 seconds. Would makes lot of sense to me.
 
I don't play online much since I can't seem to connect to lobbies (something with my UPnP and slow/latent internet), but aside from that I'm still enjoying GT5. GT5 is one of the few games that offer insane replay value. Something about learning and playing with the massive collection of cars given to us and hitting the apexes perfectly on a track never seems to get old for me.

Also, comparing GT5, a one year old racing game, to modern warfare 3, an fps game that came out a month ago says nothing. MW3 will die down soon because people will start to realize it's a repackaged MW2 (my friend returned his copy because of this) and offers nothing really new.

Still playing GT5 after one year and going strong. Still haven't finished A spec/B spec; still need to finish special events and get gold on all of the licenses. There's still much to be done :D
 
GT desperately needs some kind of online rating system like iracing that tallies accidents and contact over your entire career, not just one race, to seperate those who clearly can't drive
 
I don't know if the game is dying. I don't care. I'm still playing.

What i do know, the people that run this game have done it wrong. I'm sorry, but that is the truth. As a result, the population isn't where it could be.

This game comes from a console point of view. To me, that is the absolute wrong point of view. They need to look at it as a console-based MMO. Every three months, they should've been releasing new content (though I can forgive them for letting that slide with the tsunami). The game should've been built around online play. A-Spec should've been the afterthought, not online. B-Spec should be redesigned from the ground up. On paper, it is brilliant idea. In implementation, it is just a cow to be milked for cash.

The game is not where it should've been because the guys who made it just have the wrong vision. It is clear, with this fifth version of the game, that they will never really get it.

Enough whining though. None of us own a video game company with the resources to compete. We have no choice but to accept what they give us. I'll be hosting another race tonight, and another next week, and will be starting a new season after the new year.
 
Vol Jbolaz
I don't know if the game is dying. I don't care. I'm still playing.

What i do know, the people that run this game have done it wrong. I'm sorry, but that is the truth. As a result, the population isn't where it could be.

This game comes from a console point of view. To me, that is the absolute wrong point of view. They need to look at it as a console-based MMO. Every three months, they should've been releasing new content (though I can forgive them for letting that slide with the tsunami). The game should've been built around online play. A-Spec should've been the afterthought, not online. B-Spec should be redesigned from the ground up. On paper, it is brilliant idea. In implementation, it is just a cow to be milked for cash.

The game is not where it should've been because the guys who made it just have the wrong vision. It is clear, with this fifth version of the game, that they will never really get it.

Enough whining though. None of us own a video game company with the resources to compete. We have no choice but to accept what they give us. I'll be hosting another race tonight, and another next week, and will be starting a new season after the new year.
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This is completely wrong-headed. It is not GT5: The Online Driving Simulator and it shouldn't be. The die hard fans, even if they do play online, do most of what they do offline or at least could still do it even if online didn't exist (minus trading). The die-hard fans are the ones that keep things rolling even after the casual gamer has tossed the title aside for the next big thing. I will guarantee you, that even if there was NO online racing in GT5, there would still be a following for the offline features. Take away the offline features and make this an online only (or an A-spec afterthought), and the game sells the same amount of initial copies and then dies when the casuals jump ship for the next installment of MW. With nothing to hold the interest of the core following of this game, there would be no way to extend its life through DLC or seasonals. And, I dare say with the A-spec afterthought model, you might not even sell to the core GT fans.
 
Online play is the only thing that keeps me coming back. Racing against the computer or the clock just isn't my style. I like live action and rubbing fenders. I have hosted events for almost a year now and have been changing things up to keep it fresh...but in the end, the game has its limitations.

For online racing, car selection seems to be more important than equipment, skill, or tuning. Each of those play a role, but if someone has a better car than you, it will take amazing talent to beat them. Performance points and power/weight restrictions may put you in the right ball park but when cars that match these restrictions can vary in lap time by over 3 seconds, there is obviously an issue with the system. Tires are the main issue. We have 9 different options but the same option on two different cars is not equal.

I really hope GT6 adds more options...
* Select/restrict tire width
* Change tire pressure
* Monitor tire temp/wear (outside/center/inside)
* Change just two tires or no tires during pit stops (gas and go)
* Adjust suspension during pit stops
 
I love GT5... I have loved every installment of GT for that matter. Each game has its strengths and its weaknesses.

Just because people are not in the Public Lobbies doesnt mean they are not online playing or doing something else in the game. I trade, play in the Weekly Race Series, started a new game to try a different angle of play (specifically racing the cars as they are and not using racing tires), collect all items in the game including cars, attempt for all golds in everything... The list goes on.

I have one and only one real complaint about gameplay with EVERY version of GT:
I want AI options for multiplayer mode (arcade 2 player - imagine racing a friend with a field of 14 other cars!) as I play family from time to time when they come over and I am tired of crushing them and then they get tired of playing because they just cant keep up. If there were an AI then they have competition as do I... But I can only wish for that...

I agree though that for a game that is over a year old now it has a strong following that I dont think any other game on the market can compare to. I mean, GT4 I played to the end and didnt upgrade to the PS3 and trash my PS2 until the scheduled release date was set for GT5 (GT5P didnt bring me to the console) but then of course they delayed release for another year which let me play GT5P... By the time I finished that (a few weeks) I was itching GT5.

My wife is shocked to a degree that I still play and enjoy the game over a year later. Also, another thing is to buy a wheel and start the game over ONLY using the wheel... It becomes a different game... So many things to keep you playing the only ones that leave are the ones that cant grasp the game
 
I wonder how many more people would get hooked on the online competition if it included better matchmaking/lobby features. Imagine if we had multipliers for a clean race with fastest lap and most incident free passes etc. Anything that says somebody put some thought into online competition. Seems like a game mostly governed by "timed laps"could find a way to implement competition better. Racing has to be the easiest type of gameplay to handicap as lap times say a lot. Yet lap times aren't being used an any way to shape the online play via qualifying or match making. Being able to run your car off of walls the entire time and still collect a winners check after a race?
DLC ought to be saved for inventive new gameplay. How about a DLC damage pack for Derby Mode. Game Over mode for racing until you crash out. Has to be lots of other good ideas I have not thought of.
 
iridegravity
I wonder how many more people would get hooked on the online competition if it included better matchmaking/lobby features. Imagine if we had multipliers for a clean race with fastest lap and most incident free passes etc. Anything that says somebody put some thought into online competition. Seems like a game mostly governed by "timed laps"could find a way to implement competition better. Racing has to be the easiest type of gameplay to handicap as lap times say a lot. Yet lap times aren't being used an any way to shape the online play via qualifying or match making. Being able to run your car off of walls the entire time and still collect a winners check after a race?
DLC ought to be saved for inventive new gameplay. How about a DLC damage pack for Derby Mode. Game Over mode for racing until you crash out. Has to be lots of other good ideas I have not thought of.
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I like your thoughts on grading racers, but honestly, I don't know that it is practical. What is a incident free pass and how do you tell what an incident is and isn't? I can see just as many complaining about the scoring system being unfair as complain about it not existing now. Plus, do you really want PD spending their time and resources adjudicating these types of disputes and settling problems with the system. I know iRacing has a similar system, but I just don't see it working out in GT. Not to mention, the "casual gamer" wouldn't stand for it, PD knows that, and wouldn't lose revenue over it.
 
ajns73
I like your thoughts on grading racers, but honestly, I don't know that it is practical. What is a incident free pass and how do you tell what an incident is and isn't? I can see just as many complaining about the scoring system being unfair as complain about it not existing now. Plus, do you really want PD spending their time and resources adjudicating these types of disputes and settling problems with the system. I know iRacing has a similar system, but I just don't see it working out in GT. Not to mention, the "casual gamer" wouldn't stand for it, PD knows that, and wouldn't lose revenue over it.
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Yes I do expect them to cater to my competitive racing needs. It is a racing game to me. Not a driving simulator. I figured out the driving a long time ago, but maybe there just building a base now or only worried about new revenue from new drivers.
I also think there is a serious limits to the hardware and servers as well as bandwidth issues that make this a future next gen cycle racing series. Maybe a current driving sim.
An incident free pass it one that involves no contact as you go by. The clean as a whistle achievement could be for people who go an entire race doing only that.

Complaining about the scoring system? I would welcome any new innovations and even beta test them, not that they beta tested the current penalty system, but you get my point.
 
iridegravity
Yes I do expect them to cater to my competitive racing needs. It is a racing game to me. Not a driving simulator. I figured out the driving a long time ago, but maybe there just building a base now or only worried about new revenue from new drivers.
I also think there is a serious limits to the hardware and servers as well as bandwidth issues that make this a future next gen cycle racing series. Maybe a current driving sim.
An incident free pass it one that involves no contact as you go by. The clean as a whistle achievement could be for people who go an entire race doing only that.

Complaining about the scoring system? I would welcome any new innovations and even beta test them, not that they beta tested the current penalty system, but you get my point.
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We both know what an incident free pass is. That wasn't my point exactly. The question is can that type of subsytem be written into the game on this gen console or next? This conversation happened months ago regarding Fight Night Champion on Operation Sports. Turns out that the kinds of things we were asking for were just beyond the capabilities of the hardware, AND even if they weren't, were considered too resource intensive to be profitable. It would be nice to hear tech types who have more than just a working knowledge of the programming and hardware capabilities weigh in on whether this could be achieved on the console and at what cost.

When I say complaining about the scoring system, I will illustrate my point by quoting from Days of Thunder:

"That guy just hit me."
"He didn't hit you, Cole, he rubbed you. And rubbin' is racin'.

This is the type of thing I am talking about. Not that there aren't a lot of people that wouldn't like to see such a system, but that everyone's opinion then becomes an issue. If the casual gamer is forced to race clean by a point system, PD loses them and thus revenue. No successful company caters 100% to the customer or 100% to their bottom line. There has to be a balance.
 
ajns73
We both know what an incident free pass is. That wasn't my point exactly. The question is can that type of subsytem be written into the game on this gen console or next? This conversation happened months ago regarding Fight Night Champion on Operation Sports. Turns out that the kinds of things we were asking for were just beyond the capabilities of the hardware, AND even if they weren't, were considered too resource intensive to be profitable. It would be nice to hear tech types who have more than just a working knowledge of the programming and hardware capabilities weigh in on whether this could be achieved on the console and at what cost.

When I say complaining about the scoring system, I will illustrate my point by quoting from Days of Thunder:

"That guy just hit me."
"He didn't hit you, Cole, he rubbed you. And rubbin' is racin'.


This is the type of thing I am talking about. Not that there aren't a lot of people that wouldn't like to see such a system, but that everyone's opinion then becomes an issue. If the casual gamer is forced to race clean by a point system, PD loses them and thus revenue. No successful company caters 100% to the customer or 100% to their bottom line. There has to be a balance.
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I feel ya. This game does do a good job being a lot of things to a lot of different people and is definitely a cash cow most likely. However, MW got the online component right and is setting records for a reason. I am not saying it as a player or fan boy, just somebody recognizing the success of that franchise is largely driven on its competitive nature. If some one is dominating in MW, you know they are a talented player.
Winning a race in GT5 don't mean jack most of the time.
The recipe for success is Patience with some luck mixed in?
The result for me is usually frustration.

I think a simple point system would be like a 10% reduction in winnings and XP for each incident of contact to simulate the repair bill. What would be so wrong with a DNF for someone who wrapped his car around a guarded apex or totaled his car in some other fashion. How about a complaint system where drivers could place a complaint, but a driver would only be kicked if multiple complaints made against same driver etc. I don't really care what kind of ideas they implement. Just looking for a little effort to implement something to change a system that seems to frustrate a lot of people. Because it's nowhere near perfect, or even remotely fully explored.
 
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iridegravity
I feel ya. This game does do a good job being a lot of things to a lot of different people and is definitely a cash cow most likely. However, MW got the online component right and is setting records for a reason. I am not saying it as a player or fan boy, just somebody recognizing the success of that franchise is largely driven on its competitive nature. If some one is dominating in MW, you know they are a talented player.
Winning a race in GT5 don't mean jack most of the time.
The recipe for success is Patience with some luck mixed in?
The result for me is usually frustration.

I think a simple point system would be like a 10% reduction in winnings and XP for each incident of contact to simulate the repair bill. What would be so wrong with a DNF for someone who wrapped his car around a guarded apex or totaled his car in some other fashion. How about a complaint system where drivers could place a complaint, but a driver would only be kicked if multiple complaints made against same driver etc. I don't really care what kind of ideas they implement. Just looking for a little effort to implement something to change a system that seems to frustrate a lot of people. Because it's nowhere near perfect, or even remotely fully explored.
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We can definitely agree on the not prefect part. The hope is that the kinds of things that you have suggested here, which would most likely make at least online better, are the kinds of things that PD is talking about and working on. More than that though, hopefully they are the kinds of things that they can actually implement successfully. Perhaps 2-Specs is the answer. An offline version with trading capabilities and robust A-spec/B-Spec and an Online version that focuses solely on making the A and B Spec versions of that experience the best they can be. And for those with unlimited funds, a $90 gold version that has both (I still think they'll have to be modular though. Like 2 disks, 2 games in one package.
 
ajns73
The die hard fans
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Sorry, to me the "die hard fans" argument is like saying, "its in The Constitution". The Constitution was written with an amendment process because it was out of date before it was signed.

The die hard fanbois keep buying GT1 and GT2 and GT3 and GT4 and GT5 and are eager for GT6. Cut out the insanity.

There should be only one GT title released on the PS3. The PS3 has online capability, and they should continue to develop and expand GT on PS3 until the PS3 is sunset by Sony. There should be only one GT title on the PS4 (and there is no reason why saved data can't be ported over).

I don't actively play, but I still have an account in Eve Online. Eve Online is not one of the biggest MMOs out there, but it is a single shard. It has nearly 30,000 people a night, every night. The game is older than the PS3. That is the kind of market that a game like GT is capable of.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be an A-Spec component. I don't want to keep someone (my 9 year-old for example) from running around and bouncing off of AI drivers. But GT would be doing better today if it had:

  • Online league management built into the game.
  • Reliable qualifying, with the ability for league commissioners to assign penalties.
  • The ability to restrict PP/HP/Weight per driver/car, not just for the entire field.
  • Easier functionality to share tunes and tracks online.
  • A livery editor (something you don't really need in A-Spec because you are on the only one that is going to see it).
  • Parc Ferme.

I don't see why there isn't an actual online A-Spec mode in addition to the offline mode. There is an AI run online lobby called Sunday Cup. As soon as it has 12 real life drivers in the room, it starts a race. Every single A-Spec race is done like this. With prerequisites such as: to enter this race, you have to have finish the nine races in the previous level, and you have to have X driving license.

'Course, I come from Eve, as I've mentioned. It isn't like WoW or whatever. If you "die" in Eve, you lose everything you had with you. You don't go back and find your corpse and get your stuff back. Whomever killed you looted your wreck. The rule is, you don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

So, I realize I am probably more tolerant of hardcore gaming than a casual console gamer. But web-integration with these league management tools and a long life-cycle plan for this game would make it a "The" driving game and expand it beyond the fanboi base.
 
Vol Jbolaz
Sorry, to me the "die hard fans" argument is like saying, "its in The Constitution". The Constitution was written with an amendment process because it was out of date before it was signed.

The die hard fanbois keep buying GT1 and GT2 and GT3 and GT4 and GT5 and are eager for GT6. Cut out the insanity...

...So, I realize I am probably more tolerant of hardcore gaming than a casual console gamer. But web-integration with these league management tools and a long life-cycle plan for this game would make it a "The" driving game and expand it beyond the fanboi base.
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My argument was far from, "If you make online better no core fans will buy the game." I also didn't say that core fans wouldn't buy a game that had A-Spec as an afterthought (I said it was possible), but they certainly would not be shelling out for DLC. I really hate straw men.

As for improving the game and expanding its appeal, I am all in favor of that...as long as I don't have to compromise my experience to make yours better.
 
ajns73
My argument was far from, "If you make online better no core fans will buy the game." I also didn't say that core fans wouldn't buy a game that had A-Spec as an afterthought (I said it was possible), but they certainly would not be shelling out for DLC. I really hate straw men.

As for improving the game and expanding its appeal, I am all in favor of that...as long as I don't have to compromise my experience to make yours better.
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I do agree with that. I don't want them to hold back cars and tracks just to charge us for them later in DLC. I want them to add new cars, either new model years or new cars that they are finally able to get license for.

I don't really car about standard/premium, but I guess they can do that in DLC to make some people happy.
 
Vol Jbolaz
I do agree with that. I don't want them to hold back cars and tracks just to charge us for them later in DLC. I want them to add new cars, either new model years or new cars that they are finally able to get license for.

I don't really car about standard/premium, but I guess they can do that in DLC to make some people happy.
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Yeah, I don't get the whole standard/premium debate, beyond they look better obviously. As a collector/racer, I suppose beyond what they look like spinning around in my garage, I wouldn't really care. I race out on the hood of the car, so the cockpit is irrelevant to me. I would rather see more stuff to collect, but that's just me. However, I would never suggest that I should have more cars if that meant hurting online. The way I see it, online will always appeal MORE to the flippant crowd than the core gamers (And yes, you could certainly make the argument that even if that is true, it is only because online is not what it should be). As a result, if I am making the marketing decisions, I please my base first and then go after the the rest.
 
Your base isn't just GT fanboys, it's the ten of thousands who sim races on various platforms and have time to invest in a polished racing simulator.

I think it just shows time has moved on and for most people, their expectation has changed, the GT formula isn't the only answer, people are exposed to online play and realize you can't make AI act like human in a million years.

Suddenly you realize people who were loyal to GT not because it is GT, but just because it was a very good product, now competition exists and you find people are starting to connect with other franchises because of a simple thing - they are providing a better product, for people who enjoy simulated racing.

If GT insist their old way and old hardcore fans is what they want to cater for, they will just develop themselves into a corner, but I do think PD and Sony are smarter than that.
 
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